i'm annoyed this is going to be a low budget, low-tech, low price game. i would gladly pay for a 40-50 bucks version of Natural Selection if it was technologically up to date. it's unfortunate you will not be using the latest version of the source engine out at the time since it seems it is actually up to date.
<!--quoteo(post=1632047:date=Jun 7 2007, 01:58 AM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Jun 7 2007, 01:58 AM) [snapback]1632047[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i'm annoyed this is going to be a low budget, low-tech, low price game. i would gladly pay for a 40-50 bucks version of Natural Selection if it was technologically up to date. it's unfortunate you will not be using the latest version of the source engine out at the time since it seems it is actually up to date. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Psst...Hey bro. Nobody's using the latest version of source yet because Valve hasn't released it. In all probability UWE will have the latest Source tech long before NS2 launches. That is if EP2 comes out some time this year.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> What version of Source is NS2 based on? We're currently working with the Counter-Strike: Source/HL2 Episode 1 source code. <b>We will likely update our code base when VALVe releases new versions. </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1632047:date=Jun 6 2007, 11:58 PM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Jun 6 2007, 11:58 PM) [snapback]1632047[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i'm annoyed this is going to be a low budget, low-tech, low price game. i would gladly pay for a 40-50 bucks version of Natural Selection if it was technologically up to date. it's unfortunate you will not be using the latest version of the source engine out at the time since it seems it is actually up to date. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You don't sell a multiplayer only FPS for $50.
edit: although logically im not sure why . . . i definitely get more play time and enjoyment out of multiplayer games . . . i guess its because of development costs
<!--quoteo(post=1632128:date=Jun 7 2007, 12:56 PM:name=BluePhish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BluePhish @ Jun 7 2007, 12:56 PM) [snapback]1632128[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> High Quality Game for low Price!
They should include <b>Garry Newman</b> into development. That would kick ass! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dear lord, I don't think that would be a very good idea. All the facepunch "mingebags" would get the game just because of that and mod it up the @$$ to the point that you won't be able to find a decent ns_ game without a WC3 mod plugged into it.
I hope that when you say you don't have a deadline, you mean you're simply not announcing any dates. It seems crucial to set a schedule and be able to progress in a timely manner.
The $20 price point sounds great. I'm sure most people in the community would pay 25 or 30 bucks but at $20 you might be able to reel in more people.
the main reason NS1 is not so popular is because it is painfully low-tech. this mistake is just going to be continued.
i bet because of this insistence on catering to people who don't give a damn about getting decent computers to do justice to games, you are going to find that the dynamic infestation feature will end up having to be pulled. in general i think you are going to find that some features will require the highest tech equipment while other features require little. since it is extremely unlikely for people to have both very high and low tech equipment in the same computer, this plan is not going to work.
<!--quoteo(post=1632216:date=Jun 7 2007, 02:14 PM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Jun 7 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1632216[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> the main reason NS1 is not so popular is because it is painfully low-tech. this mistake is just going to be continued.
i bet because of this insistence on catering to people who don't give a damn about getting decent computers to do justice to games, you are going to find that the dynamic infestation feature will end up having to be pulled. in general i think you are going to find that some features will require the highest tech equipment while other features require little. since it is extremely unlikely for people to have both very high and low tech equipment in the same computer, this plan is not going to work. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you must know something we don't then. NS1 was extremely popular when it came out in 2002, which by they Half-Life was already 5 years old by then. With over 2 million downloads and 10,000 unique players everyday it was one of the most popular Mods of all time.
Source is hardly a "low tech" engine, EP2 add a whole lot more to the table with a new physics system, new particle effects, lighting and shadowing system, and a new renderer.
What game is out now that is Modable as freely as HL2? UT2007 isn't out yet and even if it was it would take the devs months, if not years, to be able to get something decent out of it. Plus, UT2007 is also going to next gen consoles and thats where the money is probably going...the PC is a niche market now.
On top of all that, NS2 is a multilayer only game. How many multilayer are considered high tech? BF2, WoW? They look a certain way for a reason.
Ut2k7 isn't out yet but the engine is certainly available for purchase, and assets for that are only a little more time intensive than they would be for Source, compared to the jump from Goldsrc to a next gen engine.
I agree that Source is nowhere near low tech though. It does one of the best jobs of supporting low end systems of any engine and scales upwards very nicely, considering the self-shadowing, multicore particle optimization, and other things that are coming with or around Episode 2.
<!--quoteo(post=1632233:date=Jun 7 2007, 04:16 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jun 7 2007, 04:16 PM) [snapback]1632233[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Ut2k7 isn't out yet but the engine is certainly available for purchase, and assets for that are only a little more time intensive than they would be for Source, compared to the jump from Goldsrc to a next gen engine. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Source? Considering that UT tools have always been cumbersome I made it a point to take everything posted on the forums with a grain of salt.
Cumbersome? You mean hitting a button in Maya to get your model ingame? Compared to Source the Unreal engine is a freaking cakewalk. No weird text files, no arcane compiling procedures, no Hammer to contend with, the list goes on and on.
i was under the impression that NS2 would not be using the episode 2 version of the source engine because of the way the artist was working in that recent video and because of what was said about the engine for NS2 being relatively weak.
The level of detail that the Unreal3 engine can support is just silly; if we were to utilise all that that engine had to offer, you could expect the time taken to make the assets for NS2 to be 4 times longer.
<!--quoteo(post=1632216:date=Jun 7 2007, 07:14 PM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Jun 7 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]1632216[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> the main reason NS1 is not so popular is because it is painfully low-tech. this mistake is just going to be continued.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You do realize that it's the second most popular free mod for HL and even beats ALL the free HL2 mods to this day, right? And that the Half Life series is the most modded game of all time? If that's not popular then I really don't know what is. As for low tech: it won't be. It'll look just like it's supposed to. And it would look the exact same way if it was on Unreal. Because it doesn't matter what engine a dev makes their game on, it's all up to the design.
That's on the Crysis engine. The game is going to look the way it's MEANT to look. And from just the hallway I saw on the dynamic infestation video it's going to work perfectly.
<!--quoteo(post=1632243:date=Jun 7 2007, 02:46 PM:name=ViPr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ViPr @ Jun 7 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]1632243[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> i was under the impression that NS2 would not be using the episode 2 version of the source engine because of the way the artist was working in that recent video and because of what was said about the engine for NS2 being relatively weak. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said it was weak? Certainly not one of the devs. And the way the artist was working is the way every artist works. The devs have access to the latest version of the Source engine, and that includes the self-shadowing and stuff available in Episode 2.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unreal Tournament 2007 (3) engine will run on Macs too, Source is Win only. Anyway if UW have choosen Source i will play with Crossover :-)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think max has already said that making NS2 work on mac OS is not something they are prepared to devote time to. Personally, i dont see the advantage of buying a mac over a good pc anyway. I think its a generally accepted fact in that if your a gamer steer away from buying a mac. mac users only represent 2% of computer users, so naturally developers will usually not go to the trouble of dedicating time and energy into making a compatible version.
Anyway it seems that its pretty much a given that the devs will be using source engine technology not UT.
AngeluszHarmonic entropistJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
Although perhaps newer, the increased sophistication on the UT3 engine can indeed be a big con. I loved the look of the HL2 engine and game, and I'm 100% sure that NS2 will look absolutely awesome. Valve made sure it's just as flexible as the HL1 engine, the core to it's success. Face it, we're still using the HL1 engine, do you really mind? I think it'll be <u>just fine</u>. Nice interview, thanks for the info <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> <b>Flame on!</b>
I wouldn't call NS2 "low-tech" unless I called World of Warcraft low-tech. It's not using the latest graphics technology out there, but as a complete package it will be more than adequate.
<!--quoteo(post=1633093:date=Jun 12 2007, 07:54 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Jun 12 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]1633093[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I wouldn't call NS2 "low-tech" unless I called World of Warcraft low-tech. It's not using the latest graphics technology out there, but as a complete package it will be more than adequate. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol, and that's not to say that NS2 will look anything like WoW (please say it won't <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> ). I'm guessing it's going to look like a smoother Doom 3 and not as bulky or dark.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
At this point, what is more popular? Source or HL1? If you look at CS, for example, source has 1/6 the players as 1.6. You don't want to make a multiplayer too high-tech right now, or all you will get is crappy framerates and alienate a good portion of the potential playerbase because their computers will not be good enough. I personally don't want to play any multiplayer FPS game if I can't get around 100 frames per second and I am not about to spend $1000 on overpriced technology.
Maybe there will be a trend back towards simplicity in graphics and enhanced gameplay, like it was in the old days before this fixation started on pumping the graphics..
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> and enhanced gameplay <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the point <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> . NS2 is going ( I hope ) a new game. CS:S = CS on hl2. It's practically the same gameplay. So, compare cs/cs:s and ns/ns2, that's insane !
I know it's hard, but we have to wait. I'm sure NS2'll be great.
CS is more popular than CS: S because it's been around longer. And they're the same damn thing. And don't tell devs to tone down their game, man. I think it'll run fine and the only thing that could lower the performance is dynamic infestation, which is a feature we WANT. No matter what kind of graphics you have that would probably take considerable CPU usage. But I'm sure they're working on it.
<!--quoteo(post=1633093:date=Jun 12 2007, 02:54 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Jun 12 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1633093[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I wouldn't call NS2 "low-tech" unless I called World of Warcraft low-tech. It's not using the latest graphics technology out there, but as a complete package it will be more than adequate. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please use normal mapping and fairly high texture resolution on player models and buildings at least. High res is not a problem since it's very easy to downfilter and use a lower res texture on low end machines.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I personally don't want to play any multiplayer FPS game if I can't get around 100 frames per second<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know that 100 FPS is over the top and unnecessary right? Getting around 40 is just as good. Theres no benefits that 100 FPS has over 40 FPS when it comes to HL2. You only have the potential to waste money on overpriced technology because you steadfastly believe that you <i>need</i> 100 FPS. It is indeed a waste, though, because <u>you don't need 100 FPS</u> to begin with.
<!--quoteo(post=1633351:date=Jun 14 2007, 01:41 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JJJ1 @ Jun 14 2007, 01:41 AM) [snapback]1633351[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Buildings may not need it, but all of the player models will be normal mapped. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 alien chambers look like they could benefit a lot from a normal map.
Comments
i'm annoyed this is going to be a low budget, low-tech, low price game. i would gladly pay for a 40-50 bucks version of Natural Selection if it was technologically up to date. it's unfortunate you will not be using the latest version of the source engine out at the time since it seems it is actually up to date.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Psst...Hey bro. Nobody's using the latest version of source yet because Valve hasn't released it. In all probability UWE will have the latest Source tech long before NS2 launches. That is if EP2 comes out some time this year.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
What version of Source is NS2 based on?
We're currently working with the Counter-Strike: Source/HL2 Episode 1 source code. <b>We will likely update our code base when VALVe releases new versions.
</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
edit: although logically im not sure why . . . i definitely get more play time and enjoyment out of multiplayer games . . . i guess its because of development costs
Low cost = more people are going to buy it
Low tech = more people can play it, and its not even really low tech
They should include <b>Garry Newman</b> into development. That would kick ass! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
High Quality Game for low Price!
They should include <b>Garry Newman</b> into development. That would kick ass! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dear lord, I don't think that would be a very good idea. All the facepunch "mingebags" would get the game just because of that and mod it up the @$$ to the point that you won't be able to find a decent ns_ game without a WC3 mod plugged into it.
The $20 price point sounds great. I'm sure most people in the community would pay 25 or 30 bucks but at $20 you might be able to reel in more people.
i bet because of this insistence on catering to people who don't give a damn about getting decent computers to do justice to games, you are going to find that the dynamic infestation feature will end up having to be pulled. in general i think you are going to find that some features will require the highest tech equipment while other features require little. since it is extremely unlikely for people to have both very high and low tech equipment in the same computer, this plan is not going to work.
the main reason NS1 is not so popular is because it is painfully low-tech. this mistake is just going to be continued.
i bet because of this insistence on catering to people who don't give a damn about getting decent computers to do justice to games, you are going to find that the dynamic infestation feature will end up having to be pulled. in general i think you are going to find that some features will require the highest tech equipment while other features require little. since it is extremely unlikely for people to have both very high and low tech equipment in the same computer, this plan is not going to work.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you must know something we don't then. NS1 was extremely popular when it came out in 2002, which by they Half-Life was already 5 years old by then. With over 2 million downloads and 10,000 unique players everyday it was one of the most popular Mods of all time.
Source is hardly a "low tech" engine, EP2 add a whole lot more to the table with a new physics system, new particle effects, lighting and shadowing system, and a new renderer.
What game is out now that is Modable as freely as HL2? UT2007 isn't out yet and even if it was it would take the devs months, if not years, to be able to get something decent out of it. Plus, UT2007 is also going to next gen consoles and thats where the money is probably going...the PC is a niche market now.
On top of all that, NS2 is a multilayer only game. How many multilayer are considered high tech? BF2, WoW? They look a certain way for a reason.
I agree that Source is nowhere near low tech though. It does one of the best jobs of supporting low end systems of any engine and scales upwards very nicely, considering the self-shadowing, multicore particle optimization, and other things that are coming with or around Episode 2.
Ut2k7 isn't out yet but the engine is certainly available for purchase, and assets for that are only a little more time intensive than they would be for Source, compared to the jump from Goldsrc to a next gen engine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Source? Considering that UT tools have always been cumbersome I made it a point to take everything posted on the forums with a grain of salt.
the main reason NS1 is not so popular is because it is painfully low-tech. this mistake is just going to be continued.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do realize that it's the second most popular free mod for HL and even beats ALL the free HL2 mods to this day, right? And that the Half Life series is the most modded game of all time? If that's not popular then I really don't know what is. As for low tech: it won't be. It'll look just like it's supposed to. And it would look the exact same way if it was on Unreal. Because it doesn't matter what engine a dev makes their game on, it's all up to the design.
<img src="http://moddb.com/images/cache/mods/81/8192/gallery/water_62971.jpg" border="0" alt="IPB Image" />
That's on the Crysis engine. The game is going to look the way it's MEANT to look. And from just the hallway I saw on the dynamic infestation video it's going to work perfectly.
i was under the impression that NS2 would not be using the episode 2 version of the source engine because of the way the artist was working in that recent video and because of what was said about the engine for NS2 being relatively weak.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said it was weak? Certainly not one of the devs. And the way the artist was working is the way every artist works. The devs have access to the latest version of the Source engine, and that includes the self-shadowing and stuff available in Episode 2.
I think max has already said that making NS2 work on mac OS is not something they are prepared to devote time to. Personally, i dont see the advantage of buying a mac over a good pc anyway. I think its a generally accepted fact in that if your a gamer steer away from buying a mac. mac users only represent 2% of computer users, so naturally developers will usually not go to the trouble of dedicating time and energy into making a compatible version.
Anyway it seems that its pretty much a given that the devs will be using source engine technology not UT.
I wouldn't call NS2 "low-tech" unless I called World of Warcraft low-tech. It's not using the latest graphics technology out there, but as a complete package it will be more than adequate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol, and that's not to say that NS2 will look anything like WoW (please say it won't <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> ). I'm guessing it's going to look like a smoother Doom 3 and not as bulky or dark.
Maybe there will be a trend back towards simplicity in graphics and enhanced gameplay, like it was in the old days before this fixation started on pumping the graphics..
That's the point <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> . NS2 is going ( I hope ) a new game. CS:S = CS on hl2. It's practically the same gameplay.
So, compare cs/cs:s and ns/ns2, that's insane !
I know it's hard, but we have to wait. I'm sure NS2'll be great.
I wouldn't call NS2 "low-tech" unless I called World of Warcraft low-tech. It's not using the latest graphics technology out there, but as a complete package it will be more than adequate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please use normal mapping and fairly high texture resolution on player models and buildings at least. High res is not a problem since it's very easy to downfilter and use a lower res texture on low end machines.
Pretty please with sugar on top?
You know that 100 FPS is over the top and unnecessary right? Getting around 40 is just as good. Theres no benefits that 100 FPS has over 40 FPS when it comes to HL2. You only have the potential to waste money on overpriced technology because you steadfastly believe that you <i>need</i> 100 FPS. It is indeed a waste, though, because <u>you don't need 100 FPS</u> to begin with.
Buildings may not need it, but all of the player models will be normal mapped.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 alien chambers look like they could benefit a lot from a normal map.