Car Accidents...
SmoodCroozn
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22310Members
in Off-Topic
Well, my mom got into a car accident two days ago.
She was the only one in the car, while the other car had 4 teenage passengers.
My mom does not speak English too well, so while she was in the car, dazed over what happened, those teenage girls used profanity, yelled at her, etc.
Then a day later, their mom calls and says somethina long the lines of, "As you know, it's all her (my mom's) fault, so I think we both wouldn't want to go to court."
So what happened?
There's an intersection with one side having stops, the other, having none. My mom was on the stop, stopped and went across. She said there was no cars.
So after she's 90% on the other side, the other car slams into the rear of my mom's car. So my mom's car was hit by their car.
A couple of things...
The way the other party is acting like pants, not trying to be neutral about it. The fact that they hit our car.
Another thing was that the girls say they were going the speed limit of 30 mph. Is this enough to rip the bumper off another car, twist the tires and send the other car twisting 90 degrees on the ground?
She was the only one in the car, while the other car had 4 teenage passengers.
My mom does not speak English too well, so while she was in the car, dazed over what happened, those teenage girls used profanity, yelled at her, etc.
Then a day later, their mom calls and says somethina long the lines of, "As you know, it's all her (my mom's) fault, so I think we both wouldn't want to go to court."
So what happened?
There's an intersection with one side having stops, the other, having none. My mom was on the stop, stopped and went across. She said there was no cars.
So after she's 90% on the other side, the other car slams into the rear of my mom's car. So my mom's car was hit by their car.
A couple of things...
The way the other party is acting like pants, not trying to be neutral about it. The fact that they hit our car.
Another thing was that the girls say they were going the speed limit of 30 mph. Is this enough to rip the bumper off another car, twist the tires and send the other car twisting 90 degrees on the ground?
Comments
Was a police officer called to the scene? Were any citations issued? Were there any witnesses?
I never get my people that rear end you think its YOUR fault when you have no control over how close they follow. I had a little korean lady get out of her minivan after talking on her cell phone and try to say its my fault, dont tell me thats not a good combo for rear ending something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Only way its her fault is if she changed lanes like it sounded like she did, which would mean she pulled out infront of a car. But, if they managed to destroy both rear tires, they have to be doing about 55 or so depending on what your mom drives
No skid marks, no nothing - the lady didn't even try and stop. Why was she speeding? Her husband was late to his parole meeting.
i don't remember the exact year that they started putting these in, but newish cars have these nifty little devices near the airbags that keep track of vehicle speed, if the airbags blow you can get the data from the thirty or so seconds up until impact. you might want to see if the devices were present and recoverable
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<a href="http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_1567.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_1567.aspx</a>
<a href="http://www.prisonplanet.com/could_your_car_be_spying_on_you.html" target="_blank">http://www.prisonplanet.com/could_your_car...ing_on_you.html</a>
But to be honest I do not find these sources to be reputable.
Also they can stress test the broken parts and tell you how fast each cars were going at the time, god knows how it's too clever for me, but it's possible. Although from the sounds of it a) You have to do something severely wrong or have a malfunction for someone to possibly hit you up the arse b) The driver behind should have had good enough stopping distance to notice there could be a possible incident and avoid it and c) Man from the way you described the car, those girls are effing ###### who should stop idolising paris hilton and re-take their driving test.
Also: Just because they were the ones who "hit" doesn't mean it's automatically their fault.
For example: If somebody backs out infront of you at the last second it's not your fault if you can't react in time.
This is a difficult situation to pass judgement on considering we are dealing with 2 popular stereotypes:
Reckless Teenage Girls
Old non-english women
Without knowing the layout of the road, I find it hard to believe that the girls could have been going fast enough to cover all the distance between where the intersection comes into view and your mothers car, BEFORE your mother could finish crossing AND without them noticing.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it seems more likely that your mother either didn't see them or misjudged distances, resulting in the accident.
So, usually the hostile party = guilty party. In my one experience.
So I'm not going to call the other party and blab, "You know it's your fault, no gimme a back massage or I'll sue, etc."
The way the girls acted and their mother as well is ridiculous.
Yea, I did ask my mom what happened and I still can't put the pieces together.
1) My mom stopped, looked both ways
2) She said it was clear
3) She went to the other side
4) Other car coming from her left, rear ends her
5) Mom is dazed in her car, keeps silent, while teens are cussing her out, trying to get the neighbors and police to agree with them
Damages to my mom's car: rear bumper torn off, rear tires twisted, one flat tire, we have to buy a new car
Damages to the other car: smashed in front (in fact, after the crash, they were able to park it to another spot.
Speed limit: 30 (mph for the Euros <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />)
I guess I can give some pictures:
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=dlttpc7egnn&thumb=4" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...gnn&thumb=4</a>
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=7xddgirwd4e&thumb=4" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...d4e&thumb=4</a>
<a href="http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=0fcgc4qjucj&thumb=4" target="_blank">http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?qui...ucj&thumb=4</a>
2) Don't know if that model of Lexus are FWD or RWD. If FWD and her gas tank wasn't too full, yes, 35mph would be enough to spin the car 90 degrees. RWD would be less likely due to the increased mass/weight in the back from the drivetrain.
3) Damage doesn't look that bad, even for a 35mph collision. Remember, anything travelling at speed packs its own weight in blam.
4) Damage to the other party's car is located very high compared to damage on your Mom's car. It would be very likely that they were braking pretty hard when they hit, causing the front of their car to nose-down. Especially compared to your Mom's upper rear quarterpanel, which appears almost untouched. The other car there gives a height reference, unless perspective is off. Check for braking skid marks at the site of the accident... even ABS-equipped cars will leave stutter-step rubber as the wheels rapidly lock and unlock.
Much as I don't like to say it, I'd guess your Mom just didn't see them, and they didn't have the good sense to swerve a bit. Or if they did, they managed to prevent a much worse (total T-bone) collision.
If that's the intersection in the background of the second link, it looks like it has a pretty bad 'blind intersection' problem on the right hand sides of the stop direction, no matter which side you're trying to cross from. Those hedges/bushes should REALLY be trimmed back, or better yet entirely removed for traffic safety purposes. From the direction your Mom's car is pointed in the first link (downhill) and parked positions in the second link, I'd assume she was trying to cross from the far to the near side, meaning the girls were coming uphill... making it easier to stop, but the blind intersection wouldn't have let them see her until she pulled out into the road.
If your Mom's car is FWD, fixing the back wheels shouldn't be too much of a problem, as they're normally just stub axles mounted to control arms/suspension.
Take it to a frame shop and have them examine it, make sure the body isn't tweaked... I can't see any obvious subframe damage (nothing really crumpled in that I can see) but you never know until you take a good look, and measure everything. Assuming it's FWD, all you need is a new rear bumper, maybe a dent pull on the bottom of the mounting chassis so all the holes will line up properly on the right, and possibly to replace the rear control arm assemblies and suspension. FAR cheaper than a new car. Hell, may have just snapped the wheel hubs, which would be even cheaper to fix.
RWD/AWD will be more costly, as the rear diff and driveshaft, not to mention rear halfshafts are likely boned. Those can get expensive REAL fast, and at that point a new car would be a much more viable option.
<a href="http://www.automotive.com/2002/09/lexus/gs300/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.automotive.com/2002/09/lexus/gs300/index.html</a>
Yea, my mistake about the left to the right thing.
My parents are opting to buying a new car. The axels are twisted inwards and we'd have to get a new tire...
My mom told me that when she was crossing, it looked clear.
That's because she was on a hill and the incoming car was in a valley, making it near-impossible to see. I guess that's the end of that story.
I just wish people could be civil about this, instead of resorting to profanity and calls that really make them sound like holes.
But I think it's the street itself. The bushes as you say, combined with the valley that hides incoming cars... it could happen to a lot of people.
So the question is, all 100% of the blame and fees go to my mom?
The person who is interfering another person's right of way is defacto guilty unless they can demonstrate the other person was at fault. I've no idea if this applies in US traffic law though.
I do agree that people are needlessly aggressive over this stuff. I've had one incident in my entire driving history where I rear-ended a guy at at low speeds when I tried to break on an oily surface. He was really nice about it, and we got two quotes for the damage at around €800 euro. When I went to meet him to pay for the damage, he had the good news that he had found a mechanic who could fix it for €500. Some people would have said nothing and pocketed the €300 profit, but luckily for me I ran into one of the honest people out there.
I've been on the receiving end of such an accident twice, and I've always been calm and civil about it.
Kinda like yelling 'I'm hit!' or 'got me!' in paintball... even if the ball didn't break, you're out because you said so.
Don't know Lex...ii? by sight, so couldn't be sure. And yeah, if it's a RWD and the back end of the drivetrain crumpled like that... well, I'd be going with a different manufacturer for the next one.
Your mom might be able to get mitigating circumstances, or be able to bring a suit against the city for allowing the growth that led to the blind intersection, but I wouldn't hold my breath. From what I'm seeing, she did not see the oncoming vehicle and therefore did not yield the right of way. They made a good effort to stop and avoid the collision, she would be completely at fault.
Even if they are acting like ######s about it. They probably expect the other american behaviour to present itself... attempting to weasel out of taking any responsibility. :b
But that's the ideal scenario, of course. People have a tendency to go to pieces when they get involved in an accident, even if it's not serious.
I'd almost insist on going to court on principle, if these teenage girls are cursing and swearing at your mom, and their mother is being obnoxious on the phone. whatever happened to respecting your elders? and respecting other human beings in general? I'm not exactly an upstanding citizen, but even I think it's completely unheard of for a teenager to yell and swear at an adult they don't know.
35 mph is more then enough to destroy a car. I drive an old '88 volvo hatchback which still has the old school stainless steel frames. I got rear ended with the other car going 35 (I know, because that's how fast I was going when I stopped and they were maintaining constant distance behind me). Their car was completely totalled, the engine was in the glove compartment, if you get what Im saying. Ofcourse, my car had almost no damage but that's another story.
Also: Just because they were the ones who "hit" doesn't mean it's automatically their fault.
For example: If somebody backs out infront of you at the last second it's not your fault if you can't react in time.
This is a difficult situation to pass judgement on considering we are dealing with 2 popular stereotypes:
Reckless Teenage Girls
Old non-english women
Without knowing the layout of the road, I find it hard to believe that the girls could have been going fast enough to cover all the distance between where the intersection comes into view and your mothers car, BEFORE your mother could finish crossing AND without them noticing.
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it seems more likely that your mother either didn't see them or misjudged distances, resulting in the accident.
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front ends are design to crush to save the passenger on a front side wreck, rear ends are stronger. Thats why they drive cars backwards at demolition derbies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
To smash a rear ends tires off, it takes a <i>lot</i> of force
My mom said that from what happened, it was possible for the girls to stop in time to avoid the crash. I can stop pretty well with my own car. If they were going around 20-30 as they said they did, I don't see why they couldn't have stopped, especially when it's going uphill as well.
Then my mom said she asked the girls about it and the girls said their car was old and their brakes... are very worn. Can we get them for faulty brakes?
Another thing is that if it was 100% my mom's fault, the situation would be over and our party would lose. But it's going on for a while now...
Their insurance sent us some papers. Some letters about "if you are going to charge us money, do it reasonably" and another is asking us to draw a picture for them.
My dad who is a skeptic, actually thought it was 100% my mom's fault. But then he went to the intersection himself and actually tried doing it and he said it was tough. He said it would be easy for half the time to get into a situation like my mom is.
I'm fine with whatever outcome that happens, so long as everything is clear.
Although it looks bad the rear bumper damage isn't that bad, assuming the sub-structure remained intact. It looks worse than it actually is in other words. As already advised get the frame alignment checked to ensure the frame wasn't bent upon impact.
Unless you can get statements from witnesses present at the scene, you're at the mercy of the insurance company.
The car's probably worth fixing if it's affordable - it's surely one of the most reliable ones you can own. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
they were obviously speeding but how do you prove that
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Without witnesses or a police investigation it's next to impossible.
If they said they were going 20-30, I'm still surprised they could not stop in time. Everyday, I go down my hill to a gate DOWNHILL around 20-30 and I always end up a few inches from hitting it.
I do believe they were speeding, because I admit I speed myself around there. And so far... I've never hit anything. But even hitting the car... if they swerved half a meter to the left, it wouldnt have hit.
Well, I'll tell you what happens when we get the results.
Due to the minimal damage (really, their bumper/hood is just a little dented up, and your Mom's rear bumper cover just popped off, with NO visible quarterpanel damage at the impact site, rear axle/wheel damage aside as it was not part of the actual impact, unless they hit the wheel, at which point the impact mark on their vehicle would be much closer to centerline) I would still be inclined to side with them almost totally, from a logical standpoint. Yes, uphill it's easier to brake. I still didn't see any rubber marks on the road in the background of your second picture link, so they didn't lock up the tires at the very least... meaning either they didn't brake, or they exhibited optimal braking. Worn brake pads are actually a good thing for inexperienced drivers in that regard, as they won't *allow* the wheels to lock, increasing overall braking potential.
Still guessing that your Mom just didn't see them (possibly due to the blind intersection), or misjudged the distance. Given that she said that the car just came out of nowhere, the former would be more likely.
? I'm not exactly an upstanding citizen, but even I think it's completely unheard of for a teenager to yell and swear at an adult they don't know.
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Clearly youve never been to the more chavvy parts of england. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />