Marines Overpowered in CO Combat
rookandpawn
Join Date: 2007-02-19 Member: 60018Members
Join Date: 2007-02-19 Member: 60018Members
#1 Aliens don't race UA. Alien dmg upgradeable through Focus which nerfs their rate of fire. Alien rate of fire can be increased through Hunger and Primal Screams. This is just silly as compared to the ease of
"/xmenu UA". When i say Aliens have to assist each other, Im not talking "oh, a helpful hand" im talking a player has to give up his offense slot to become a primary caregiver role! Lerk/gorge. While this can be more powerful when it happens, its expecting way too much. This goes back to the whole "Aliens are expected to outplay, and out-coordinate the marines" whereas there is no such requirement for the marines.
I dont give a rats a*** about that one elder noob fade who can wipe out a whole team by himself, 20 times over. That is NOT most players. So dont even go there. Time to live for a 950/950 onos from one UA hmg'er is not quite a few seconds. People talk about "mobility" advantage of aliens.. What about the jetpacker who flies about the hive? How about a couple?
Give aliens a way to race UA. Period. Here are sample solutions:
(a) unnerf Onos Charge.
(b) Make thickened skin a TRUE answer to UA. give the onos an extra 750-1000 hp at max thickened skin. Remember, the answer is never "Oh, just play better!" Becuse this violates the principle that upgrades have to be comparable. Hunger is great for storming an area, but thats it. With UA, every "powerful alien" essentially becomes a xeno'er, since he can't stick around for more than 2 seconds. No matter what his damage potential is, UA kills that. If the rhines and aliens are playing at the same level of skill, then as it stands, UA will win the battle. This is incorrect.
#2 Why does it always have to err on the side of Rhines? WHy can there not be hundreds of people whining about how AUTOMATIC a win it is for aliens? Why? Because the devs wanted to not frighten off CS-players?
Try making aliens 'broken', and then start nerfing from there. Right now, it was the other way around.
If they are hesitant, why? Because "aliens would be too powerful then"?? That is a poor answer. Aliens are not "too powerful now". They need a boost.
#3 Upgrade path favors the Rhine. Every rhine upgrade that helps the rhines, helps them 100% of the time throughout all "stages" of the fight. not true with aliens. If you have to ask, you dont know. An alien team in a jam gets xeno, then they'll need to get higher lifeforms. The application of 3 points one way, then 3 points or 4 points for fade/onos the other way... Hey, those fades need carapace/celerity/adren.. those onos need carapace..Sure, those 3 points for xeno can be later used for those high life-forms later to upgrade their abilities too, but it doesn't get maximum point "application" the way HMG/GL + UA + JP/HA paths are. Each new "level" of rhine can add a whopper. Wow, now i have the ability to JP or the armor of HA. There is no, "oh i had to spend my points this way" but now i have to spend my points that-away, that doesnt quite maximize how i spent my earlier points. Plus, rhines have automatic "redemption" in the sense that if they were a jetpacker or a heavy, there is no incubation time to "re-get" their JP/HA.
#4 Again, let me repeat before people start posting: even if aliens are winning at least 50% of the time on your local pub, that doesnt mean there isn't a fundamental imbalance that needs to be corrected.
It is WELL KNOWN that good players GO ALIENS to demonstrate skill, ability to maneuver, fade, and what not. This has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
"/xmenu UA". When i say Aliens have to assist each other, Im not talking "oh, a helpful hand" im talking a player has to give up his offense slot to become a primary caregiver role! Lerk/gorge. While this can be more powerful when it happens, its expecting way too much. This goes back to the whole "Aliens are expected to outplay, and out-coordinate the marines" whereas there is no such requirement for the marines.
I dont give a rats a*** about that one elder noob fade who can wipe out a whole team by himself, 20 times over. That is NOT most players. So dont even go there. Time to live for a 950/950 onos from one UA hmg'er is not quite a few seconds. People talk about "mobility" advantage of aliens.. What about the jetpacker who flies about the hive? How about a couple?
Give aliens a way to race UA. Period. Here are sample solutions:
(a) unnerf Onos Charge.
(b) Make thickened skin a TRUE answer to UA. give the onos an extra 750-1000 hp at max thickened skin. Remember, the answer is never "Oh, just play better!" Becuse this violates the principle that upgrades have to be comparable. Hunger is great for storming an area, but thats it. With UA, every "powerful alien" essentially becomes a xeno'er, since he can't stick around for more than 2 seconds. No matter what his damage potential is, UA kills that. If the rhines and aliens are playing at the same level of skill, then as it stands, UA will win the battle. This is incorrect.
#2 Why does it always have to err on the side of Rhines? WHy can there not be hundreds of people whining about how AUTOMATIC a win it is for aliens? Why? Because the devs wanted to not frighten off CS-players?
Try making aliens 'broken', and then start nerfing from there. Right now, it was the other way around.
If they are hesitant, why? Because "aliens would be too powerful then"?? That is a poor answer. Aliens are not "too powerful now". They need a boost.
#3 Upgrade path favors the Rhine. Every rhine upgrade that helps the rhines, helps them 100% of the time throughout all "stages" of the fight. not true with aliens. If you have to ask, you dont know. An alien team in a jam gets xeno, then they'll need to get higher lifeforms. The application of 3 points one way, then 3 points or 4 points for fade/onos the other way... Hey, those fades need carapace/celerity/adren.. those onos need carapace..Sure, those 3 points for xeno can be later used for those high life-forms later to upgrade their abilities too, but it doesn't get maximum point "application" the way HMG/GL + UA + JP/HA paths are. Each new "level" of rhine can add a whopper. Wow, now i have the ability to JP or the armor of HA. There is no, "oh i had to spend my points this way" but now i have to spend my points that-away, that doesnt quite maximize how i spent my earlier points. Plus, rhines have automatic "redemption" in the sense that if they were a jetpacker or a heavy, there is no incubation time to "re-get" their JP/HA.
#4 Again, let me repeat before people start posting: even if aliens are winning at least 50% of the time on your local pub, that doesnt mean there isn't a fundamental imbalance that needs to be corrected.
It is WELL KNOWN that good players GO ALIENS to demonstrate skill, ability to maneuver, fade, and what not. This has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
/xmenu is a plugin and not part of natural selection combat
Complain to the server admins, who configured the plugin or avoid the server.
this is the perfect example why the current way how mods are handled is bad
Mods in itself are okay, even i sometimes play them for mindless slaugther... but if players cant distinguish between the game itself and some third party modifications how should they know what the game in itself really is
i dont know whats planned for NS2, but i hope it will be easier to see the difference between modded/unmodded servers, and find such servers in the server browser
i think this would especially be helpful for new players that know nothing about what mods are around and who want to try out the real thing first
surprise out
yes, this is indeed sad
this is the perfect example why the current way how mods are handled is bad
Mods in itself are okay, even i sometimes play them for mindless slaugther... but if players cant distinguish between the game itself and some third party modifications how should they know what the game in itself really is
i dont know whats planned for NS2, but i hope it will be easier to see the difference between modded/unmodded servers, and find such servers in the server browser
i think this would especially be helpful for new players that know nothing about what mods are around and who want to try out the real thing first
surprise out
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sv_pure and a matching serverlist filter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
All I'm going to say in this conversation is that this statement is the complete opposite of truth. "Good players" know that playing aliens in combat is no challenge whatsoever, so they play marines.
It is WELL KNOWN that good players GO ALIENS to demonstrate skill, ability to maneuver, fade, and what not. This has nothing to do with the argument at hand.
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lol!
sv_pure and a matching serverlist filter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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with emphasis on
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this is the perfect example why the current way how mods are handled is bad<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please rebalance NS around a secondary game mode after it has been modified by dozens of extraneous plugins based on my false presumptions.
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In the early game, in large servers, it's hard as aliens, because skulks, without leap are free exp. But then when you get lerks and then fades... the game massively favors aliens.
Yea, there's some annoying marines with hmg jp and aim 99% of what they shoot at.
You have marine advantage at the start, then aliens gain enormous power at the middle, then if the game goes last enough, marines gradually overpower aliens through faster respawns, unlike aliens who have to egg.
This is something big, yet so easy to do: bind +movement as your mouse 2. Or make "reload" your mouse 2. That changed the way I play fade forever.
Also, in an early NS2 Interview, Flayra made it clear that it would be easy to select 'pure NS2' and obvious that you are playing modded/scripted NS2.