American Culture
moultano
Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
Creator of ns_shiva. Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
<div class="IPBDescription">How would you define/describe it?</div>I'm interested to see what people have to say about what exactly defines American culture as distinct from the culture of the rest of the world. These can be differences of degree and such, don't get too hung up on semantics. Opinions both of Americans and of people from the rest of the world are welcome.
I'll post my thoughts in a bit when I get a little more time. The subject came to mind because I recently dated an Indian girl for a while, and one of the most interesting things about the whole experience was how many of the things I took for granted as human nature were really just cultural assumptions.
I think the question is hard to answer for the US because we're just a polyglot nation of immigrants. Even our language is all over the place. (Do people from the UK et al. say things like "shmuck"?) Do you think there are things that we all do and believe that really unite us as a people?
I'll post my thoughts in a bit when I get a little more time. The subject came to mind because I recently dated an Indian girl for a while, and one of the most interesting things about the whole experience was how many of the things I took for granted as human nature were really just cultural assumptions.
I think the question is hard to answer for the US because we're just a polyglot nation of immigrants. Even our language is all over the place. (Do people from the UK et al. say things like "shmuck"?) Do you think there are things that we all do and believe that really unite us as a people?
Comments
Shmuck comes from Yiddish. (as do schlep, nosh, and other such words)
Even in the US they are not all that common, my story on that was when I was out in OH (college) my co worker had never heard any one use the term schlep before (and she was greatly amused by my usage of it). To me it is second nature, admittedly I also grew up in Queens, NY, one of the slightly more Jewish areas in the US.
However, I am curious to see how other countries view our culture(s). (common held stereotypes of Americans from your country?)
I am also curious if those stereotypes are vanishing with the spread of information (the global community idea).
The dating culture is weird. I mean it seems you get a girl- or boyfriend after having "dated" for X times, and every date should follow some sort of code. Huh?
I guess those would be the two greatest stereotypes I usually promote. I'm happy to recieve feedback on them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The open and talkative thing is an interesting point though. While most people I have run into would find it strange to just strike up a conversation with some one relatively randomly there are a good number of people who can and do. Though I think it depends on situation a lot.
Disclaimer, I am from NYC.
The idea of having a complete conversation with some person on a buss or in a cafe or anything is relatively strange to me. In a social situation I might do it (party where I don't really know any one I will still work on talking to people).
However in situations where some random people are thrown together for an extended period of time (airplane, long bus/train trip, waiting on line at the Nintendo Store, etc) it wouldn't be that odd for me to spend a chunk of the time talking to people I never met, and likely will never see again in my life.
At the Nintendo store I played Mario Cart with the people around me.
Traveling to/from college I have ended up in conversations with random people on the bus most of the times I did it.
So I guess that one is 1/2 true <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
The dating thing might also be 1/2 true I guess.
There are people that hold to the ideals of dating
Kiss on the second date, he should pay for everything, nice restaurant, flowers, what ever.
I am not really familiar with them my self as the concept of 'dating' is a relatively odd one to me. The girls I have gone out with have all been friends before hand, and we started being boyfriend/girlfriend probably before we actually went on a 'date' (dinner and a play normally, though some times just dinner <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />), and those are usually special occasions any way.
But I do have friends that honestly Date. Going out for dinner and a movie with some one you don't really know, having multiple people that you are going out on Dates with, etc etc. It is strange to me, but they do it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
so, I guess they are both partially correct <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Heh, this is fun. Wish I could do it the other way, but I don't HAVE any notions as to what other cultures are like...
joking aside, let's see, what else do I have to add about US culture... very consumerist overall. always have to have a bigger car than the neighbors.
Very paranoid. Everyone thinks everyone else is out to get them. Everyone thinks their life is in danger *all* the time. I don't know what the news is like in other countries, but here, all we hear about is local murders and Paris Hilton.
People aren't generally interested in politics. That's the reason Bush was able to be (semi)-elected twice. People vote like it's a popularity contest first and foremost, and second, like if they don't vote for the tougher guy, their kids are going to be abducted out of their soccer mom SUVs by terrorists.
In the south, they're much more friendly to strangers - but at the same time the south feels strange and alien to northerners. Feels like the nice guy who started a conversation with you out of nowhere might go off and lynch someone that night. At least in the urban northeast (NY, philly, etc.) we're suspicious of everyone equally <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Another way of putting it: in some parts of the southern US, the culture seems to run hot and cold - love group A, loathe group B. In the north, we're neutral/apathetic to everyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
The Spanish in Spain - of course they vary all over the country, but in general they've been partying since they were very young, I've been leaving a club or disco on the beach at 4 or 5 am and I've seen entire families just arriving, kids dancing in the clubs (not hardcore city clubs, I mean small town discos), very very relaxed, theres very little law concerning drink, which seems to make them quite responsible with it, I never saw any fights or even anyone passing out while I was there (except for foreigners). They let bulls run on the streets at certain times of the year, if you get gored its your fault, they have massive fiestas, street parties, celebrations, fireworks festivals all summer long. There is little or no compensation culture, like being back in the eighties, its great, you can do what you want. The whole family is involved, they seem very tight knit, also children will quite often live with their parents till they in their late twenties. Theres hardcore porn on alot of terrestrial tv channels from midnight onwards. The police are laid back. Spanish guys are usually obsessed with blonde foreign girls, they would skid the cars in the street, holler at them, go nuts basically. They often told me the reason why is because alot of Spanish girls were quite chaste, the places I was in anyway. Its a very very free country.
The Dutch - very polite friendly people, all seem to be extremely fit, they look after themselves, their houses are immaculate, their gardens are perfect and they love working. If I was late to work by 5 minutes it was the topic of conversation for most of the day. They are neat, orderly, they never dub any tv, they subtitle everything so their English is perfect. They're the tallest race on earth. They cycle everywhere, all the kids seem to cycle to school, lots of cycle lanes. They are very precise and time orientated. They work VERY hard.
Australians - every hostel is FULL of Australians (and Americans), they are friendly, sarcastic, interesting people, but they all seem to have that slight arrogance about them, which is quite surprising when you notice it first. They are very competitive. They do tend to brag about their country alot and refer to random sporting events in the 70's in which they beat YOUR country. They're great fun though.
I know this is supposed to be about American culture.. I don't have time now.. but I'll write something later on..
Don't get me wrong, I'm not posting a knee-jerk, defensive response to your post, Swift, but I am curious about it. Are you trying to envision a "typical American" when you say that, or are you trying to make an estimate based on your general feel for the population? I just want to know what goes on behind the (somewhat well-founded) "stupid and arrogant" talk about the U.S.
From a local observer: people in the D.C. area are very professional, success-minded, and active. They're always joining organizations (often liberal political groups), pushing their children to apply to great colleges, and moving upward on the food chain. In the deep south, it's much different: there's a pervasive relaxation despite the tense conservatism in the politics. Everyone has found their place, whether it's at church, in the city, or with a small like-minded (from an interests standpoint) group. In Florida, everyone has a love-hate relationship with the tourists, particularly in the panhandle (which is more like the deep south than real Florida) where the tourists are "pathetic, sickly-looking yanks" in addition to being tourists. The northeast is almost as active as D.C. but really needs to be broken down by city... best done by someone from NYC, who always has something nice to say.
Always.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
every one always talks about the consumerist mentality, however I was looking at something at the very core of that.
The desire and speed witch which Americans tend to borrow money.
Credit Card debt is a huge problem for a large number of people.
We see something we want and we either just buy it on credit, or take out a HUGE loan.
The current one is that the condo group needs more money to operate (monthly maintenance is rather low for us tbh). So just about everyone's idea was to have the condo borrow a HUGE chunk of change instead of having an assessment (a one time fee on all owners). The loan would have been to the tune of around 20K per year in INTEREST alone. (yes, they need a good chunk of change tbh)
we can also see this in things like leasing cars. This is equivalent to you taking out a loan, buying a car, pay nothing but interest for a number of years, then defaulting on the loan and giving the car back. You end up with nothing, except less money.
Conspicuous Consumption, Living Above Your Means, etc etc.
That is my stereotype about Americans.
And it bothers me.
(IF YOU CAN'T PAY FOR IT, DON'T FARKEN BUY IT!)
Now, pardon me as I go and drop about 1.2K on a computer.
My Social Psychology textbook keeps highlighting how the US is a very individualistic country. The Western world is in general individualistic, but the US more so.
Japan is an example of a culture on the opposite end of the individual or group-oriented spectrum. When you're get a job in a company in Japan, the company is expected to hold on to you as long as possible. You in return are expected to be loyal to your company or any other group you belong to. In the US you are expected to be flexible and might change jobs several times a during a decade.
Sweden is also looked on as a group-oriented country, often called the Japanese of Scandinavia. Their way of government and way of doing things is considered very top-down decision making, compared to the casual Danes and in-between Norwegians.
I guess this depends a lot of where you are in the US, but at least in California it feels like everything is far less formal than a lot of European countries. A close relative of mine who studied at CalPoly this last year was asked if he was doing job interviews even when wearing casual short-sleeved button shirts. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
When it comes to financial habits, I think it's strongly shaped on the culture's recent economic history. A very recent trend in my country of residence is for retired people to take up huge loans on their houses to spend on travel and consumer goods, seeing how their children have no need to fear poverty like earlier generations.
Understanding other cultures is important for constructive communication between them.
Religion is very much a part of the American it seems, something like 1 in 5 believe the sun goes around the earth and a third of college graduates believe in creation, and the diversity in religions is pretty big.
In Europe religion is much more of a show than anything.
I don't mean to offend anyone here but the perception of Americans being dumb (in the sense ignorant of other cultures) but its very true. I've been asked if we in Ireland at still at war with Britain, do I know what the internet is, do we live in stone houses.. two months ago I told an American that I had a pet leprechaun and that we don't have planes in Ireland so its a tradition to build a boat and sail over to England to get a plane from London, she believed every word of it.
That said, I think Americans and Canadians are the easiest and friendliest to get on with. They also have a real appreciation of culture, old buildings, monuments, etc that we just take for granted.
The problem is, how many people can actually pay for post secondary schooling... Yet we kind of need people who are willing to.
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I apologize, I left out something. If you need it, then THAT is what debt is for. College/Grad School I don't blame people for going into debt.
However, tbh there are a number of VERY good city/state colleges (at least in NY). Going to Colombia instead of Queens College for library sciences is kinda silly if you can't flat out afford Colombia.
Also, if you are doing something like buying your first house, it is expected that you will end up in debt, but it is something that is planned out, and tbh, your property is increasing in value as you pay off your debt. It is an investment, much like your College Education is (something else that appreciates in value), and thus going into debt is sensible for it.
As for American's being ignorant of other cultures?
100% true.
I don't know why exactly, possibly because you are all so far away from us, or maybe we just are never taught it, but most of us don't know much about other countries. It isn't that we don't care about them, or that we intentionally ignore them. Most people I know are interested in other cultures, and love learning about them, but that might just be because I live in NYC....
You can visit Yellowstone, the Florida Keys, Grand Canyon, the Great lakes etc. all from the same country. And maybe more importantly you're not forced to negotiate in the same way with countries of differing sizes on small daily issues.
And even though a lot of Americans know little to nothing about foreign countries and cultures, it's the same with a major proportion of any country. Most people are not traveling business men or educated intellectuals, and few travel extensively, and most without interacting with locals who don't live off tourism.
Most people interact little with foreigners, Americans slightly less than others. But then again, Americans have access to more people of a different culture within their own country.
I think America's cultural and historical distinctions (the highly philosophical foundation of our constitution and nature of our revolution, the immigrant impact on our population) from the rest of the world in general and the Anglosphere in particular are way overplayed. A good explanation of this comes from Ted Kaczynski of all places:
<!--QuoteBegin-excerpt from SOME PRINCIPALS OF HISTORY in "Industrial Society and its Future"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(excerpt from SOME PRINCIPALS OF HISTORY in "Industrial Society and its Future")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The American "Revolution" was not a revolution in our sense of the word, but a war of independence followed by a rather far-reaching political reform. The Founding Fathers did not change the direction of development of American society, nor did they aspire to do so. ... British society, of which American society was an off-shoot, had been moving for a long time in the direction of representative democracy. And prior to the War of Independence the Americans were already practicing a significant degree of representative democracy in the colonial assemblies. The political system established by the Constitution was modeled on the British system and on the colonial assemblies ... But it was a step along the road the English-speaking world was already traveling. The proof is that Britain and all of its colonies that were populated predominantly by people of British descent ended up with systems of representative democracy essentially similar to that of the United States. If the Founding Fathers had lost their nerve and declined to sign the Declaration of Independence, our way of life today would not have been significantly different. Maybe we would have had somewhat closer ties to Britain, and would have had a Parliament and Prime Minister instead of a Congress and President.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1638507:date=Jul 11 2007, 07:33 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Jul 11 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]1638507[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the question is hard to answer for the US because we're just a polyglot nation of immigrants.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
USA : European Union :: American states : European countries
<!--quoteo(post=1638507:date=Jul 11 2007, 07:33 PM:name=moultano)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(moultano @ Jul 11 2007, 07:33 PM) [snapback]1638507[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do you think there are things that we all do and believe that really unite us as a people?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sure, this is an easy one: school shootings and and their ability to raise someone from the status of tortured underdog to acclaimed martyr. (lol.)
The high school I graduated from (Westfield in Chantilly, Virginia) which only opened in 2000 has already produced 2 rampage shooting killers: Cho Seung-Hui (with whom I graduated in 2003, a strange chap), and Mike Kennedy, an 18 year old who opened fire at a local police station with an AK-47 killing one and wounding two.
I had a discussion with a psychologist once and asked him if it was at all abnormal to be disgusted by the insincere banter that serves as a greeting with some people. let me illustrate
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NONVERBAL SYN PACKET HAS BEEN ACKNOWLEDGED
PERSON A: "Hi! How are you?"
PERSON B: "I'm great! How 'bout you?!"
PERSON A: "I'm doing great too!"
INITIATION SEQUENCE COMPLETE. COMMENCE TRANSMISSION OF INFORMATION.<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
It's like some unwritten social protocol that people just abide by to make communication easier. One time at work someone quickly sputtered out "Hi how are ya", and before I could even give him a response he blurted just as quickly "fine thanks" and continued on with the conversation.
The psychologist laughed and told me of a Dutch woman he had once met. When asked what some of the noticeable differences between cultures she could recall, she told him "when Americans ask you 'how are you doing?' they don't actually want to know."
Judging from what you and the psychologist said I guess this must be a very <i>American</i> cultural characteristic. A sickening one too, if you ask me.
The psychologist laughed and told me of a Dutch woman he had once met. When asked what some of the noticeable differences between cultures she could recall, she told him "when Americans ask you 'how are you doing?' they don't actually want to know."
Judging from what you and the psychologist said I guess this must be a very American cultural characteristic. A sickening one too, if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because it's fake doesn't mean it is an undesirable thing. It's these sort of niceties that make it easier to interact with people we really don't like. Ever notice how saying what's exactly on your mind tends to piss a lot of people off?
The vast majority of Americans can be characterized as:
Highly insular - we don't care about other states. Our country is big enough and exerts so much influence over every other state that we don't care to know much about their cultures, because they are "inferior". The popular culture of the United States is enjoyed in every nook and cranny of the world. Bollywood films, in contrast, only find popularity in India.
Highly industrious - out of all developed markets, the American worker is <b>the most productive</b>. Even over Japan. This is a combination of both the technology available to us and the amount of hours we work. For example, we work 30% more than the average German, 25% more than the average Frenchie. 12% more than the average UKer.
Highly religious - > 85% of the American populace is religious and goes to a religious service at least once a year.
Highly conservative - If you seriously think the Democrats and Republicans are different, then you're a retard who got brainwashed by all the bull###### political sidelining that has plagued this country. Our political system is among the slowest and most deliberate in the world, so only absolutely needed reforms get pushed through, which is why socialist bids for power failed here but took over in other developed states in Western Europe.
Those four traits have maintained the primacy and the cohesiveness of the United States. We are not the united States of America. We are the United States of America.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->USA : European Union :: American states : European countries<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get real. The European Union amounts to very little. It is a confederation at best, and at worse, is nothing more than highly regressive agricultural subsidies and an Americanizing common market. There is no such thing as a European. There is such thing as an English, Irish, German, French, Swiss, Dutch, et al. People in the US might refer themselves by city (New Yorker or Bostonian, for example), but how many people in the US proclaim they are a Georgian or a Californian or a Virginian, or Oklahoman first and an American second?
Our culture, aided and abetted by the overwhelming power of Corporate America tends towards unity and cohesiveness. It's quite remarkable, really.
I completely disagree with you on the idea of common "niceties" that make it "easier to interact." Why do you think northern European people are so taken aback when they see this behavior in Americans? Because they can interact with each other in a curt way without hurting each others' feelings, and not only is that an easier way to interact by any rational standard, but it's a lot more sincere and doesn't cheapen relationships the way our superficial methods of interaction do.
Please don't generalize that person\people with the majority of Americans. They were probably joking, or very insular.
Please don't generalize that person\people with the majority of Americans. They were probably joking, or very insular.
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How do I put this.. that IS the majority.. I won't say its dumbness, its just being clueless about other cultures/geography. I've been traveling for 3 or 4 years, I've met 100's of people from all over the place, most of the Americans I've met have been liberal, open-minded, college graduates, with a thirst to have fun and explore the world, a world which they don't really have a clue about.. think thats why they're traveling in the first place..
I don't mean to offend anyone here but the perception of Americans being dumb (in the sense ignorant of other cultures) but its very true. I've been asked if we in Ireland at still at war with Britain, do I know what the internet is, do we live in stone houses.. two months ago I told an American that I had a pet leprechaun and that we don't have planes in Ireland so its a tradition to build a boat and sail over to England to get a plane from London, she believed every word of it.
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Just for a little perspective, how much do you know about Laos? I admit to knowing absolutely nothing, except that it has a population bigger than Ireland because I just looked it up. If someone from Laos went around Ireland telling people that they didn't have planes in Laos and that the wealthy could sometimes afford a Qilin, how many do you think would believe them?
This is a mediocre analogy because a substantial portion of Americans are of Irish heritage, but I think a lot of westerners on both sides of the Atlantic take the sort of ignorance you are describing for granted about Asia and particularly Africa.
Just for a little perspective, how much do you know about Laos? I admit to knowing absolutely nothing, except that it has a population bigger than Ireland because I just looked it up.
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This is all I know about Laos..
Its beside Vietnam and Cambodia, got some insane tonnage of bombs dropped on it during the Vietnam war, in fact all my knowledge of Laos is mostly just indirect stuff from the Vietnam war or from friends who've traveled there and shot guns from technicals, gone into the jungle, met the locals, etc
Och, Americans aren't too bad, they just ask some whoppers of questions..
Having lived with them too I would say they can be easily offended by certain things. Amongst Irish people thats a sign of weakness, come to think of it, we're actually very macho.
I have to say, if I am stuck somewhere, and I don't know anyone, the best person I can meet is an American or a Canadian, they're just easy to talk to and get along with, no social bull###### (at first anyway).
which is why you were called white negros for a few centuries <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
which is why you were called white negros for a few centuries <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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OOooh.. as opposed to the black negros who yous just called slaves for a few centuries <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
...plus the lines are always gradual and it's relatively impossible to tell the difference between someone from Iowa and Illinois (unless they're from Chicago, I guess), but Iowa and Georgia is much easier.
To dismiss the EU completely is rather drastic - the immediate tangible benefit is easier commerce and much, much, much easier travelling between countries.
I will say that many Americans just aren't interested in learning (which I've found incredibly disheartening since High School), but in contrast to the very idiotic Americans (...such as some in my school who didn't know the capital of their own state...), we also tend to have the most well-educated group as well (and a decent portion of that is also scientists and researchers we steal from other countries with our immense wealth and general thirst for knowledge (from the more intellectual spheres of American society)).
Unfortunately it's very rare to find a conservative willing to travel across the Atlantic (or often even to Canada or Mexico), and they tend to be somewhat xenophobic, like much of the American populace.
I've also noticed the false niceties-thing, but I find most people don't actually ask "how are you?" if they don't care, it's usually "hello, it's nice to meet you" or "hello, would you like to get down to business?"...although that still has some forced politeness. I only ask it if I really care, but I'm weird in other aspects as well <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (I'm one also of that low percentage of Americans who has visited another country).
As a much broader response to the OP: there's most likely no 'broad American culture' that encompasses all of the United States. The closest generalization I could think of is that many people are proud of their heritage, but simultaneously proud to be Americans and part of a generally congenial mass of people (I'll refrain from the old 'melting-pot addage', since it's generally not true...I've never really asked someone of Irish heritage about what they do because they're Irish).
As for knowledge about other cultures and countries (which doesn't really refer to the OP), well, I know the location of every country in the world and at least basic (usually non-numerical statistics and history) information about almost each of them. It isn't feasible or necessary to know the politics, economics and history of every country...although I would think it's somewhat strange to not know anything about a country you're visiting.
No one over here (...in Europe) ever knows where Wisconsin is (...except the one person who was there...there's a needle in a haystack for you) when I tell them where I'm from, but it's just smaller than Ireland and it's got its own history and interstate economic problems and politics, but no European cares about it. When every European knows a background about every US state, then they can start hassling Americans about not knowing the history of every European nation (you should probably include North Africa and parts of the Middle East, because they were part of the Roman Empire (and other European kingdoms) for awhile, there, too). Then you can complain to me that someone doesn't know where Slovenia (or Laos, or Monaco or Paraguay) is.
(yes, in general Americans are still less in-the-know about world geography than...well, the rest of the world)
I feel that much of the American public is way, way, way, way too focused on celebrity interactions and useless, ever-changing pop-information (or whatever you want to call it). I'll warn Germany now: get rid those newer TV shows like"Germany's Next Top Model" and ....what is it called "Who wants to be a pop-star" (or something), they are evil and for some reason most people like them. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The more interesting phenomenon in my opinion is the modern trend of self-loathing amongst the more left leaning Americans who fancy themselves as worldly and cultured in contrast to the huddled ignorant masses they see themselves as superior to. Some of such people are so convinced of--and even proud to attest to--our own inferiority it makes me question their motives. It is very obvious, as someone else said here, that not "all Europeans are well traveled businessmen or highly educated intellectuals.."
I think those people, who tend to come from a similar political stratum (liberal, democrat, pro foreign-aid and anti self-interest), are motivated by some desire to elevate their self conception... and by some curious <i>overeagerness</i> to be accepted by foreign cultures that I do not understand (but I think it to be rooted in self-hatred).
<!--quoteo(post=1639106:date=Jul 15 2007, 08:49 PM:name=UltimaGecko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UltimaGecko @ Jul 15 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]1639106[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel that much of the American public is way, way, way, way too focused on celebrity interactions and useless, ever-changing pop-information (or whatever you want to call it). <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it wasn't pop culture minutiae it would be soap operas, or comic books, or radio drama, or local gossip ... the USA has a large population and it is a statistic certainty that a given percentage will be dim-witted, uninquisitive; in a word, low IQ.
Other smaller countries have their own population percentage of unintelligent as well, but they aren't as large, so the media produced to cater to them is not as noticeable. (<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=6913049460499044352&showtopic=101515" target="_blank">Idiocracy</a> is a funny movie that deals with this matter.)
Get real. The European Union amounts to very little. It is a confederation at best, and at worse, is nothing more than highly regressive agricultural subsidies and an Americanizing common market. There is no such thing as a European. There is such thing as an English, Irish, German, French, Swiss, Dutch, et al. People in the US might refer themselves by city (New Yorker or Bostonian, for example), but how many people in the US proclaim they are a Georgian or a Californian or a Virginian, or Oklahoman first and an American second?
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Amen. The EU is NOT the United States of Europe, and the more I watch, the more I shudder to think that it could ever become so.
<!--quoteo(post=1639082:date=Jul 15 2007, 11:50 PM:name=Timmythemoonpig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Timmythemoonpig @ Jul 15 2007, 11:50 PM) [snapback]1639082[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
OOooh.. as opposed to the black negros who yous just called slaves for a few centuries <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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All of the oh so civilised western world did that. The 'mericans did it a little while longer than the rest of us, but not by much. And some european countries had colonies well into the twentieth century, which could be called a sort of slavery too.
I think those people, who tend to come from a similar political stratum (liberal, democrat, pro foreign-aid and anti self-interest), are motivated by some desire to elevate their self conception... and by some curious overeagerness to be accepted by foreign cultures that I do not understand (but I think it to be rooted in self-hatred).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The term is white guilt. It's a self defense mechanism that gainfully employed white people use to justify their elevated socioeconomic status. It's also richly hypocritical.
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Amen. The EU is NOT the United States of Europe, and the more I watch, the more I shudder to think that it could ever become so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least you don't want to become us. There are plenty across the pond that fatansize about the rise of a European superpower able to become a counterweight to American power on the international stage.
The White Man's Burden of the 21st century will be minimizing its own self destruction in the presence of this endemic aftereffect of the civil rights era.