My 4 year old Dell notebook is still doing quite well. I can play Quake Wars on low settings but anything newer I may have to actually build a new system for.
<!--quoteo(post=1639916:date=Jul 20 2007, 06:25 PM:name=Venmoch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Venmoch @ Jul 20 2007, 06:25 PM) [snapback]1639916[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Except your forgetting that DirectX does much more. DirectInput and DirectSound are immensly useful if your making a game as they give you a silly amount of low level access to these things if you want. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DirectSound is dead, use openAL or you will be stuck with software emulation in vista.
Microsoft recommends that you use plain old windows messages(register for raw input if you need it) for keyboard and mouse and only use direct input or xinput for other input devices.
If thats true the game makers will either ignore it or Vista will be the worst PC gaming operating system ever made. Let me put this next statement in perspective by saying that I am very much not a fan of Microsoft or proprietary single-os technologies like DirectX, but DirectX is basically God's gift to game developers. If you take parts of that framework from them they're going to be upset.
[WHO]ThemYou can call me DaveJoin Date: 2002-12-11Member: 10593Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1640137:date=Jul 21 2007, 10:27 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Jul 21 2007, 10:27 PM) [snapback]1640137[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am very much not a fan of Microsoft or proprietary single-os technologies like DirectX, but DirectX is basically God's gift to game developers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1640137:date=Jul 22 2007, 12:27 AM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Jul 22 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]1640137[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If thats true the game makers will either ignore it or Vista will be the worst PC gaming operating system ever made. Let me put this next statement in perspective by saying that I am very much not a fan of Microsoft or proprietary single-os technologies like DirectX, but DirectX is basically God's gift to game developers. If you take parts of that framework from them they're going to be upset. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I know many game developers who would rather work with OpenGL, and do... Admittedly I really can't consider myself an expert on the subject, but I was under the impression that the DX format really isn't that graphically superior to work with than OpenGL, nor that much easier.
From what I understand Game developers often choose to work with DX because it offers better performance for an equal scene as opposed to working with OpenGL, and the cause of that phenomenon is basically Microsoft licensing graphics hardware manufacturers to ensure DX compatibility is more aggressively pursued than OpenGL solutions. No doubt there's a tilt towards some hardcore lunix4life fanaticism in the way I've had the issue described to me... I've mostly picked up information from people working on opens source development projects.
Wikipedia says it's basically an arbitrary choice game development made. DX used to be easier to use due to the fact that OpenGL was a professional level renderer that included bloat unecessary to game development that could cause back lapses into software rendering (slow) so most developers adopted DX, and thus most gamers used windows. Now the differences to game development are much less relevant, if relevant at all, but the development standard is still upheld for no apparent reason.
KassingerShades of greyJoin Date: 2002-02-20Member: 229Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1639991:date=Jul 21 2007, 06:10 PM:name=Abra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Abra @ Jul 21 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]1639991[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Half the threads on the forum, which revolve around a subject that has different opinions that can be sided, are all about trolling. It's pure vendetta. I rarely read "Oh, well then Iam mistaken" or "You have a good point there, I have to agree" Without some cheap comeback in form of "facts" and insults and questioning of the counterparts sexuality. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heated discussion make people disagree more. Basic, basic psychology. The stronger statements you make, the more your opponents will disagree with you.
Hmm, what? You actually thought intarweb discussion was for convincing people? :O
<!--quoteo(post=1640157:date=Jul 22 2007, 05:02 AM:name=Kassinger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kassinger @ Jul 22 2007, 05:02 AM) [snapback]1640157[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Heated discussion make people disagree more. Basic, basic psychology. The stronger statements you make, the more your opponents will disagree with you.
Hmm, what? You actually thought intarweb discussion was for convincing people? :O <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> he lies. intertube discussions are all about presenting a civil argument and attempting to find an acceptable middle ground despite the differing viewpoints of the participants.
<!--quoteo(post=1640166:date=Jul 22 2007, 07:17 AM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Jul 22 2007, 07:17 AM) [snapback]1640166[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_DirectMedia_Layer" target="_blank">SDL</a> is an option for developers. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's looks pretty supercool...
However I doubt commercial developers will adopt at any reasonable speed. I mean who are they to do the right thing and challenge a Microsoft monopoly by supporting the consumers right to optionality in their operating system preferences?
However I doubt commercial developers will adopt at any reasonable speed. I mean who are they to do the right thing and challenge a Microsoft monopoly by supporting the consumers right to optionality in their operating system preferences? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_SDL" target="_blank">List of games using SDL</a> Doom 3 Quake 4 Unreal Tournament Unreal Tournament 2003 Unreal Tournament 2004
Granted those are just for the Linux versions. The Windows versions use DirectX without the wrapper.
<!--quoteo(post=1640173:date=Jul 22 2007, 08:16 AM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Jul 22 2007, 08:16 AM) [snapback]1640173[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_SDL" target="_blank">List of games using SDL</a> Doom 3 Quake 4 Unreal Tournament Unreal Tournament 2003 Unreal Tournament 2004
Granted those are just for the Linux versions. The Windows versions use DirectX without the wrapper. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> As much as I like high end FPS games... that list isn't really the whole PC gaming market in a nutshell...
<!--quoteo(post=1640169:date=Jul 22 2007, 07:41 AM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jul 22 2007, 07:41 AM) [snapback]1640169[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean who are they to do the right thing and challenge a Microsoft monopoly by supporting the consumers right to optionality in their operating system preferences?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If high performance is a requirement, writing to openGL and D3D is the real challenge and the real pain, not the user input and windowing code. Only if you are allready going to support multiple platforms will SDL be of some use.
Many game devs already work utterly insane hours in an industry where "an aspirin a day keeps the heart attack away" is a common motto; where working 5 days straight without sleep to meet a deadline is not unheard of; where people have stayed awake for so long that they start hallucinating and do insane things like buying a grand piano they cannot and have no intention of playing.
<!--quoteo(post=1640194:date=Jul 22 2007, 01:35 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Swiftspear @ Jul 22 2007, 01:35 PM) [snapback]1640194[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> As much as I like high end FPS games... that list isn't really the whole PC gaming market in a nutshell... <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> They were just a few from that list I figured would apply to people from these forums.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
I had a version of 2K and XP before they were officially released (CTP for 2K that was released to Universities and such for testing and Whistler for XP) and my thoughts on those are the same as they are in regards to Vista: The initial premium you pay for simply saiyng you have the latest and greatest (and the latter is rather disputable, given my experience thus far with Vista versus both XP and 2K) is far too high. I waited a good 6+ months before swapping from 95c to 2K (face it: 98 was awful) and over a year before I went from 2K Pro to XP. I won't say that I like XP, I hate software that tries to hold my hand the entire time. The first thing I do on a clean XP install is disable about 75% of the default services, delete about 5 megs worth of garbage that it places and replace about 3/4 of the default XP programs (explorer as shell, notepad, etc). After that I'm comfortable using it. My experience thus far with Vista is that it tries to hold your hand even more, which makes me rather uncomfortable. I'll upgrade when I feel most of the "should have been found before release" bugs are corrected and more of the games I want to play will work on it. This was the same thing that really killed using 2K for me, game compatibility was garbage for the longest time, and honestly even with SP4 not everything works on it that should, while XP has no problems handling old Windows 95 era games.
Comments
The only 100% true comment in this thread. Good job stickman! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
seconded
My nine year old P-3 though is rock steady,
Except your forgetting that DirectX does much more. DirectInput and DirectSound are immensly useful if your making a game as they give you a silly amount of low level access to these things if you want.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
DirectSound is dead, use openAL or you will be stuck with software emulation in vista.
Microsoft recommends that you use plain old windows messages(register for raw input if you need it) for keyboard and mouse and only use direct input or xinput for other input devices.
QFT
If thats true the game makers will either ignore it or Vista will be the worst PC gaming operating system ever made. Let me put this next statement in perspective by saying that I am very much not a fan of Microsoft or proprietary single-os technologies like DirectX, but DirectX is basically God's gift to game developers. If you take parts of that framework from them they're going to be upset.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know many game developers who would rather work with OpenGL, and do... Admittedly I really can't consider myself an expert on the subject, but I was under the impression that the DX format really isn't that graphically superior to work with than OpenGL, nor that much easier.
From what I understand Game developers often choose to work with DX because it offers better performance for an equal scene as opposed to working with OpenGL, and the cause of that phenomenon is basically Microsoft licensing graphics hardware manufacturers to ensure DX compatibility is more aggressively pursued than OpenGL solutions. No doubt there's a tilt towards some hardcore lunix4life fanaticism in the way I've had the issue described to me... I've mostly picked up information from people working on opens source development projects.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_OpenGL_and_Direct3D" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of...GL_and_Direct3D</a>
Wikipedia says it's basically an arbitrary choice game development made. DX used to be easier to use due to the fact that OpenGL was a professional level renderer that included bloat unecessary to game development that could cause back lapses into software rendering (slow) so most developers adopted DX, and thus most gamers used windows. Now the differences to game development are much less relevant, if relevant at all, but the development standard is still upheld for no apparent reason.
Half the threads on the forum, which revolve around a subject that has different opinions that can be sided, are all about trolling. It's pure vendetta. I rarely read "Oh, well then Iam mistaken" or "You have a good point there, I have to agree" Without some cheap comeback in form of "facts" and insults and questioning of the counterparts sexuality.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heated discussion make people disagree more. Basic, basic psychology. The stronger statements you make, the more your opponents will disagree with you.
Hmm, what? You actually thought intarweb discussion was for convincing people? :O
Heated discussion make people disagree more. Basic, basic psychology. The stronger statements you make, the more your opponents will disagree with you.
Hmm, what? You actually thought intarweb discussion was for convincing people? :O
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
he lies. intertube discussions are all about presenting a civil argument and attempting to find an acceptable middle ground despite the differing viewpoints of the participants.
Relevant.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_DirectMedia_Layer" target="_blank">SDL</a> is an option for developers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's looks pretty supercool...
However I doubt commercial developers will adopt at any reasonable speed. I mean who are they to do the right thing and challenge a Microsoft monopoly by supporting the consumers right to optionality in their operating system preferences?
It's looks pretty supercool...
However I doubt commercial developers will adopt at any reasonable speed. I mean who are they to do the right thing and challenge a Microsoft monopoly by supporting the consumers right to optionality in their operating system preferences?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_SDL" target="_blank">List of games using SDL</a>
Doom 3
Quake 4
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
Granted those are just for the Linux versions. The Windows versions use DirectX without the wrapper.
From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_SDL" target="_blank">List of games using SDL</a>
Doom 3
Quake 4
Unreal Tournament
Unreal Tournament 2003
Unreal Tournament 2004
Granted those are just for the Linux versions. The Windows versions use DirectX without the wrapper.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As much as I like high end FPS games... that list isn't really the whole PC gaming market in a nutshell...
If high performance is a requirement, writing to openGL and D3D is the real challenge and the real pain, not the user input and windowing code. Only if you are allready going to support multiple platforms will SDL be of some use.
Many game devs already work utterly insane hours in an industry where "an aspirin a day keeps the heart attack away" is a common motto; where working 5 days straight without sleep to meet a deadline is not unheard of; where people have stayed awake for so long that they start hallucinating and do insane things like buying a grand piano they cannot and have no intention of playing.
As much as I like high end FPS games... that list isn't really the whole PC gaming market in a nutshell...
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They were just a few from that list I figured would apply to people from these forums.