Blog update - Marine concepts
Max
Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
It's been a little while since we've had a blog update, so <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/blog/2007/08/marine_concepts.html" target="_blank">here you go</a>. It's not because we don't have cool stuff to show off, just that we've been so darn busy that it's hard to get the time to write some of it up. Expect a lot more visual stuff to be coming your way.
Comments
One thing I'm not so sure about is the merit of giving the players avatar customisation options beyond choice of sex. It would all depend on the pacing of the combat. Take Quake 3 on one end of the spectrum. Your player character choices are vastly different. You've got eyeballs on legs and insectoids. These are appropriate avatar choices only because of the speed of the combat. In order to stand out in a game of that speed you need something that's radically different from the other players. At the other end of the spectrum you could look at a game like Swat 4. The differences in your team-mates might be down to the insignia they've chosen or some equipment they have on their back. This is suitable because of the much slower pace of the game. You've got time to take stock and notice smaller details in a slower-paced game.
I guess what I'm getting at is this: Are these cosmetic differences going to be noticeably worthwhile given the pace of the combat of NS?
--Scythe--
I am glad for the decision to integrate the GUI/HUD and an "open" face design. This direction should be a ton of fun.
When it comes to the "modular" intent of the armor, could this mean that with an ugrade to armor, there would be a slightly different look? Same with carapace?
And when it comes to a custom look, could this also mean there will be medals, badges, or grafitti on a marines armor?
And with the intent of custom look to some degree, would there be different skins the Kharaa might use? Like variations in color? Perhaps tiger stripes, mottled camouflage, leopard spots? Just to take some inspiration from possibly cool looking predator skins...
Again, thank you for the blog, very interesting and very encouraging!
I can't wait to see more of NS2. Everything you guys drop is solid gold. Keep up the absolutely amazing work!
The (somewhat) fast paced combat is only one piece of the game, although I think the level of customization we're talking about would be visible. The real goal for adding avatar customization is to enhance the teamplay aspect of the game which is actually the main focus of NS2. The way we see it, if you can easily identify your buddies, it's easier to work together.
I like the idea of customization, as long as its it not too extreme, or over the top. It would take away from the atmosphere of the game if somebody's helmet popped off only to reveal a giant blue afro.
I like the idea of customization, as long as its it not too extreme, or over the top. It would take away from the atmosphere of the game if somebody's helmet popped off only to reveal a giant blue afro.
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I would laugh so hard if I ever saw that happen <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
Besides that, great stuff guys! Me likes the updates. I think #5 is the best, followed by #4, then #6 and then #7. It still shows the most important part of the human body (the face) while still looking somewhat technological. Also personally, I wouldn't want a too elaborate helmet anyway, ever heard of the quote "less is more"?
I don't think I like #8 tho, the helmet looks like it it would belong more in the Kharaa rather than the Marines. I dunno why, the design just feels more Alien than Marine. Tho the idea of removable parts would be pretty cool and unique (I haven't seen a game implement that yet).
<!--quoteo(post=1641980:date=Aug 3 2007, 10:03 PM:name=MasterPTG)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MasterPTG @ Aug 3 2007, 10:03 PM) [snapback]1641980[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm so choosing the girl avatar b/c she looks hot. =D.
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Much agreed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />, but I would also choose it because I like the slick slenderness of the female character <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />.
I guess what I'm getting at is this: Are these cosmetic differences going to be noticeably worthwhile given the pace of the combat of NS?
--Scythe--
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I think it will be; how many times have you been crouched in a corner defending your TF while its uprading with an HMG in hand, and several companions by your side? There are lulls in the action where you can take in the coolness of the art. Its happened several times to me when i first got into NS.
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There's a number of ways we could do that KFDM, but we haven't discussed any of our options in detail. I would love to see no two players ever look alike, but that may be unreasonable given our limited resources.
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Perhaps it could be like Rainbow Six: Vegas character customization.
Also, you can make a small set when you first ship the game, and then just patch in more later. You do have steam...you can just throw em on there when you like.
Finally my two favorites come together <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
No, seriously, this looks great.
One note, which is only my opinion, is that you should <b>keep the visor</b> as it is a heavily distinctive element for the NS art style. Make it removable? Sure. Sleekify it? Definitely. Heck, make it slightly larger and transparent, to expose the great facial expressions available in the Source engine.
The first concept is my favorite.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We're not committed to character customization yet since we're not sure if we'll have the art resources to do full customization of your avatar's appearance. But at the most basic level, we'd like to at least provide gender selection, which is why we decided to work with a female model in the concept stage. Hopefully we'll be able to go beyond that for Natural Selection 2 or a future add-on, so we wanted our new design to allow for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Aw come on Max, commit! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Ok name your price, how many cookies is it going to take to get modular customization guaranteed?
<!--quoteo(post=1641984:date=Aug 3 2007, 10:29 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Aug 3 2007, 10:29 PM) [snapback]1641984[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I find this to be a very interesting blog! Especially since a number of discussions in NS2 Ideas & Suggestions, like this one: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=929479946476762240&showtopic=101828" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=101828</a> have been discussing just this!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hey! Don't forget <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=8477669042450787328&showtopic=102011" target="_blank"><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->this<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></a> and <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=8477669042450787328&showtopic=101442" target="_blank"><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->this<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></a> too! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Customization acknowledges both issues, making NS more unique and allow for a bit more of that social, individuality.
I like 3 and 7.
Speaking of the helmet concepts im really impressed with all of them, and im especially pleased you went with the sealed neck concept. It doesn't only look really slick but it feels practical also.
How about the HUD (the holographics over the eyes) be over only one side? That would be neat.
Also, what about the flashlight? Is it on the helmet or on the gun? it would be really cool ,imo, if it was shown to be on the side of the helmet, for example the area between the top of the ear and the temple.
Overall = <b>HAWT</b>. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
Also, what about the flashlight? Is it on the helmet or on the gun?
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The flashlight appears to be in the middle of the chest plate, shining out a big ol' SHOOT ME HERE. I guess that aspect wasn't designed for marine vs marine combat. Does this mean that NS2 wargear is designed to combat the NS aliens specifically?
The flashlight appears to be in the middle of the chest plate, shining out a big ol' SHOOT ME HERE.
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If that really is the flashlight then isnt it a bit impractical? I mean if I was in that armour and shooting a skulk thats leaping in my face at 40mph, I would assume that my arms / weapon would block most of the light from the flashlight, effectively making it only a, like you said, "big ol' shoot me here".
i.e.
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i first picked up NS on release day, and i can't say i've ever stopped to think "i don't have much of a human connection with my video game marine teammate". perhaps the more intellectual of you have thought that, but surely that's a tiny minority?
regardless, it's good to see that every stage is looked at seriously. at least we know NS2 isn't going to be half-baked.
and cory keeps making quality stuff.
a lot of thought has gone into this by the devs- but i can't help but feel that perhaps a ittle <i>too</i> much thought.
i.e.
i first picked up NS on release day, and i can't say i've ever stopped to think "i don't have much of a human connection with my video game marine teammate". perhaps the more intellectual of you have thought that, but surely that's a tiny minority?
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I think they are doing the right thing here by taking advantage of the technology available to them.
Subtle features like how friendly NPCs (or online team-mates) are coded to turn their heads to look at you when you stop to stare make the characters in source really look human. Eye contact does help give you a connection to that person.
It seems likely that 'submodels' are going to be featured in the way customisation works here, so I'm wondering if this will be expanded on things like armour and weapon upgrades. With the use of submodels, It would be possible for Level 3 weapons to have a very different look to level 1 weapons.
--Scythe--
I remember suggesting this a long time ago, hopefully its still an option for the game as it really adds immersion to the characters. If you're looking to add avatar customization anyways, this would definitely help to achieve the effect that you're playing with a human. That was one of the biggest things I loved about hl2dm was when you were near a teammate they looked over at you, very cool effect (along with them blinking like a normal person would).
Also I think the chest flashlight should stay as it really gives distinction to the art style. If its made more noticeable in NS2, it'd be a sight to see a bunch of marines in a darkened room with their chest lights glowing subtly. It really wouldn't give them away, since the aliens can probably see in the dark anyways.
seriously props guys for haveing wicked taste, and well done cory keep at it.
Should be able to have helmet come off and used as a weapon, Jason Bourne style.
I'm so choosing the girl avatar b/c she looks hot. =D.
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Me to, but for different reasons.
Hey Max, will you add some cleavage so annoying 12 year olds can weld me as an excuse to looking at boobies? It's better that than running off and dieing to a skulk.
The flashlight appears to be in the middle of the chest plate, shining out a big ol' SHOOT ME HERE. I guess that aspect wasn't designed for marine vs marine combat. Does this mean that NS2 wargear is designed to combat the NS aliens specifically? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Have you ever used the flashlight in ns? all it does is light up your model . . . now we know why, lol.
Have you ever used the flashlight in ns? all it does is light up your model . . . now we know why, lol.
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That's how the flashlight works in every HL mod. In first person it lights up where you look, and in third person it lights you up.
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In the armed forces of the real world, we all carry the same uniforms and look to identify more strongly with each other.
But with this still in mind, on the usually so anonymous internet identifying traits on your teammates will make them seem more realistic as human individuals, and yes might very well promote teamplay.
In the armed forces of the real world, we all carry the same uniforms and look to identify more strongly with each other.
But with this still in mind, on the usually so anonymous internet identifying traits on your teammates will make them seem more realistic as human individuals, and yes might very well promote teamplay.
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That's a different meaning of the word 'identify' than how I intended it. I meant it in the sense "John has a red bandanna and I'm supposed to be sticking with John so that I can cover him while he builds". Of course it's also great if players can identify with each other as well!