New Site W/ Compiled Banned.cfg?
SkWyReL
Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9360Members
Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9360Members
<div class="IPBDescription">id be willing to help the project...</div> It would be really sweet if all us admins made a site, at which you can download a preconfigured banned.cfg (which i believe is for AdminMod) file, so we dont have to go through the process of everyone telling everyone.
We could have a forum similar to this one in which each topic is a bad players name. The recongized admins could have stronger ability to add to the list than any Joe Schmoe who wants to ban his new worst enemy.
<b>Update: You got a point, Vadakill, and the only way to combat this would take to much human work. I wonder if the requirement of a Demo or each 'motion' to be seconded would help. I dunno, maybe its just a pipedream.</b>
<b>Update 2: Ok, so now we make it so in order to get someone added to the banned list you need evidence. And maybe we make another list that is a watch list? I dont know how that would work. But any ideas would help. I cannot stand cheaters. They ruin games. Also, what about a Most Wanted List. When we find someone who we KNOW is bad we could put a profile on him with WonID and all his AKAs.</b>
.:SkWyReL:.
We could have a forum similar to this one in which each topic is a bad players name. The recongized admins could have stronger ability to add to the list than any Joe Schmoe who wants to ban his new worst enemy.
<b>Update: You got a point, Vadakill, and the only way to combat this would take to much human work. I wonder if the requirement of a Demo or each 'motion' to be seconded would help. I dunno, maybe its just a pipedream.</b>
<b>Update 2: Ok, so now we make it so in order to get someone added to the banned list you need evidence. And maybe we make another list that is a watch list? I dont know how that would work. But any ideas would help. I cannot stand cheaters. They ruin games. Also, what about a Most Wanted List. When we find someone who we KNOW is bad we could put a profile on him with WonID and all his AKAs.</b>
.:SkWyReL:.
Comments
It's a cool idea, I agree but there are so many things that need to be looked out for. Someone would need to watch the thing full time in order to make it fair for appeals and everything. So, yeah, that's a lot of work.
Ban list distribution does not work. Please open your eyes.
But, if you have to submit a demo or screenshots (with the person name showing).. then we could have a more effective banning website.
Ban list distribution does not work. Please open your eyes.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hardee shame you
what do you think ?
Bully boy admins are also likely to group up and make stupid claims against a player they dislike and get them banned from the entire mod. You support this?
Let me know
If u want, i could also setup a proxy for ur log files(u setup ur sever to send me a copy of ur logs as they write to ur HD they also write to my proxy), that way no1 can claim that u just changed the entries in ur logs.
Let's say you're a bad admin that nobody trusts or likes (it's a stretch I know but just immagine for a moment <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> and you post a bunch of false bans with wonid's.
I login to the site that holds the database and can filter it so I only see the bans by the admins I trust and not your bogus bans
If u want, i could also setup a proxy for ur log files(u setup ur sever to send me a copy of ur logs as they write to ur HD they also write to my proxy), that way no1 can claim that u just changed the entries in ur logs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this all sounds good.. the only thing I'm not too sure about is the realtime update (proxy) if I accidentally ban the wrong person and don't realize my typo for some time that person's ID could spread through the communitiy accidentally.
I think it would be very cool to be able to query the database and show repeat offenders. Maybe have a number beside each wonID that represents the amount of times that person was banned. Also if we could click that number and be shown who banned them and their contact.
another thought. If a wonid is in the list it would be awesome if we could then upload evidence that we have as to why that person was banned. Not just the first admins that posts but other admins too.
so let's say pee pee boy spams my server to death and plays irritating music over the voicecomm etc..
I login to the site add the wonid to the list, select the reason for banning from a dropdown list, add evidence (screenshots, logs, demos etc.) and add notes about the evidence.
now lets say another admin comes along and wants to post a new item about pee pee boy. the site would tell the admin that pee pee boy's wonid is already listed in the database and the prompt you to "add more evidence". the admin could then upload his own log/screenshot/demo and notes, giving more proof that this person is trouble
suggestions ?
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Not what I ment, with the proxy system it would only save ur log files, so that if some1 said u had change ur log file or created 1 just to get some1 banned, we would have proof from the untouched copy from the log proxy. The log proxy would not ban any1 just keep a copy of ur logs.
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I think it would be very cool to be able to query the database and show repeat offenders. Maybe have a number beside each wonID that represents the amount of times that person was banned. Also if we could click that number and be shown who banned them and their contact.
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Not a porblem.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->another thought. If a wonid is in the list it would be awesome if we could then upload evidence that we have as to why that person was banned. Not just the first admins that posts but other admins too.
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Can do.
I've decide to start writing the database and asp pages, for my own record if anything. If other admins want to use it then great ur more than welcome.
thanks !
In my mind, it's more important to trust the banner then the evidence prodived. I've got a few ideas on this and started coding an integrated web app that would let peoples enter their bans and have them propagated. It would (so far) be based on a personal multiplier that you have applied to a user and value of the alleged offence being computed against a threshold (user configurable).
If you're a nazi, trust everyone at least at level 1, assign a high cost to every recorded infraction and set a low threshold. There ya go, every banned won id will be added to your list.
Don't trust user Xyz? Set his trust level to 0, he's ignored.
Think that hanging on a server for hours after the game has been lost hidden in a backward duct until an admin banned the guy? Set that infraction to 0 and it'll be ignored.
Basically working along the lines of " user_trust * infraction_value = ban_value ". Sum up all ban_values and compare to a threshold. Repeat for all won ID that are banned by at least one trusted users.
My only worry is how big of a database would make Pg puke?
Howl when it up NightFall.
But I dont, now I dont espect that you believe me but anyway.
If anyone of my friends complains on a Player, I take note of the name or wonid. Then I either join the server when I see him playing so I can see if he really is a "lamer/cheater etc".
Or I'll check the Chat if its someone that's flaming everyone or maybe flooding etc.
I myself dont take my friends word for it, because some of my friends are really bad loser. And some get's really **obscenity** of on a commander if they doesnt give em hmg n ha on the double.
I'm not spending another £5 today to get a new CD key because of a bunch of jerks abusing the WON system.
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What security issues ? tell what u mean and ill answer u. BTW my job is network security <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->anyone can download this banned.cfg and get them instantly banned from a server<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Basically yes, anyone can download the cfg file and install it onto their server. BUT no one is going to force anyone to download it and install it, it will be left to every server admin to decide what they want to download and install, some might choose to not use any, thats fine by me. The database is aimed at stopping people like "pee pee boy and ***cough*** U ***cough*** from spamming servers in an atempt to crash them, to stop cheaters from ruining the mod like what happened in CS.
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I'm not spending another ?5 today to get a new CD key because of a bunch of jerks abusing the WON system. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well Play nice, play hard, just dont abuse bug's, don't spam servers and dont cheat, most importantly do what the game is ment for, ENJOY IT.
Follow those basic guide lines and your wonid won't be on the database, SIMPLE REALLY.
You are quite correct. The whole point behind what I posted is that any admin subscribing to the service <i>does not trust</i> anyone by default. They have to explicitely trust some one so that they can generate a <b>custom</b> ban list. The whole point for rating "infractions" (whatever they may be) is that you have to give them a value. The whole point with a threshold is so that multiple bans from multiple admins may be required for the ban to make it to your list.
If user XYZ is always abusing bugs and has been independently banned by 10 users on the system, 5 of which you trust somewhat (level 1) and abusing a bug has a value of 20 in your <b>own</b> infractions ratings, then the total score on that WonID is 5 * 1 * 20 = 100. If your threshold is 50, he's banned on your list. if your threshold is 200, he's not. Change the threshold, infraction values, trust levels and the score changes and he might no longer be banned in your next generated file. Add him to your whitelist and he's no longer banned for you.
That's the system I think would reduce abuse to a nuisance, at best.
Alex
Few Suggestions:
-Registration is key... the longer people have to wait or work before they can unfairly ban people, the less likely they are to do it.
-We should make this list harder to come by, and if you use it, put a tag at the beginning of the server name (e.g. "MyServer" could be "{BL} My Server" bl=banned list. So people who are totally against cheating go to those servers while people who are on the hot list or just dont really care can go to others.
-Is there a way to integrate it like a mod? So if you have the mod, it automatically updates itself every server start? Such as having it linked to a website? i dunno, im babbling...
Good Luck!
.:SkWyReL:.
Hl is extremely old. the wonid system isnt secure enuff. (Thus valves creating the steam system.) So with all the key gens etc out for hl, how are you gonna ensure that playerx whos cheating, isn't useing some legit players wonid, that he got randomly from a key generator?
Invest the time and effort to make it if u wish. But its been talked to death in every hl and mod forum for like 2 years now. and its always come down to the fact that 1) you'd never get enuff admins who agree to use it to make the effort worthwhile. 2) Banning some cheater by a wonid across multiply servers, when he didn't even pay for the game. and has access to 100's of wonids, is silly and futile. Not to mention the real idiots you want banned, never use a legit wonid. So all you end up doing are banning legit players wonids, who have the missfortune to have theyre wonid used by a cheater.
All the same good luck. But if you get more then a couple of dozzen servers out of the thousands out therye agreeing to your system I'll be surprised. Hell who am I kidding, if you get more then the 2-3 people on this thread who think its a good idea, useing it I'd be surprised. As much as I'd love to get rid of the cheaters and lamas, this idea will never work.
And Nighfall, let me ask you this. Your a network admin? Do you own this free bandwidth your offering to use for recording all these log files etc? Or our you just being free with that UK schools connection? And Have you actually sat down and down the math for what your purposeing? Lets say for the sake of argument, that your system was a huge hit, and 500(500 is a drop in the bucket when talking about the ammount fo servers out there) servers started useing your system, Now will even use some rediculosly small numbers for this example. Lets say each server only sends 2KB/s of data to this system. Thats 1000KB/s incomming stream 24/7. Not counting web page or database use. And if 500 servers where useing it, your talking about millions of hits per week.
Why do you think even large software house like Valve, Activison,etc use companys like won.net for even simple things like authing a player?
Just exactly whos gonna pay for the ammount of bandwith use your talking about? Because its not cheap. And just exactly whos going to pay for all the hardware youd need? Cuz even if only 500 servers where to join, it couldent all be hosted on one pc. Not with it running 500 proxy log connects + a database, httpd deamon etc,etc.
And do you have any concept of the amount of info youd need stored? You better have some massive storage in the terabyte range, if your gonna be storing weeks/months worth of log data from multiply servers.
Then theyres the question of, How will anyone know how to try and get a ban removed? Without offical support from the mod authors or Valve itself. 99% of the people playing wouldent know even where to begin to search yout site out. Hell most can't even find the regular servers they play on, support pages.
I'm sure if you guys started looking at this realistically, you will come to the conclusion everyone else whos talked about these systems for years will come to. But meh. good luck and peace.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hell who am I kidding, if you get more then the 2-3 people on this thread who think its a good idea, useing it I'd be surprised <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been running CS server for nearly two years now, during that time I've met other admins. Since talking to them they have all agreed to use the database system (around 40 servers in total - not including any from this thread).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And Nighfall, let me ask you this. Your a network admin? Do you own this free bandwidth your offering to use for recording all these log files etc? Or our you just being free with that UK schools connection? And Have you actually sat down and down the math for what your purposeing? Lets say for the sake of argument, that your system was a huge hit, and 500(500 is a drop in the bucket when talking about the ammount fo servers out there) servers started useing your system, Now will even use some rediculosly small numbers for this example. Lets say each server only sends 2KB/s of data to this system. Thats 1000KB/s incomming stream 24/7. Not counting web page or database use. And if 500 servers where useing it, your talking about millions of hits per week.
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The proxy log system is another addon, which might or moght not be used. Still at the discussion stage.
Bandwidth is not a problem <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> see below
Small discription of my network.
2x1GB internet connetion
1 SAN unit 10 TB
All server 1GB connections