<!--quoteo(post=1656894:date=Oct 20 2007, 03:22 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Oct 20 2007, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656894"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing I have noticed as spy: You can disguise yourself as a different class from your own team... My question: What does this look like to the opposing team?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually useful for moving up to the frontlines before trying to infiltrate so you don't clue your enemy into the fact you are a spy and that they should be on the look out. After all, running up to the frontlines disguised as them looks very suspicious, and not being disguised lets them know a spy is hanging around. It can also be used to put yourself as a decoy if you don't care about dying. Disguise as a medic, heavy, or something, and you'll be a bigger target.
I believe if you disguise as a class the other team doesn't have, anybody who looks at you will see their name.
Lastly, it's not a good idea to hang around the other team's areas once you infiltrate. They'll catch on eventually. And don't hang around a sentry gun when you sap it. Run around a nearby corner or something.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1656897:date=Oct 20 2007, 12:42 PM:name=Surge)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Surge @ Oct 20 2007, 12:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656897"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lastly, it's not a good idea to hang around the other team's areas once you infiltrate. They'll catch on eventually. And don't hang around a sentry gun when you sap it. Run around a nearby corner or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Depends on why you are sapping it.
IF you are just trying to let some one get past (flag carrier), spamming the sapper will keep it down as the jump over.
And yah, Ian really hit the art style perfectly, and his ingame spray is wonderful <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1656780:date=Oct 19 2007, 07:25 AM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoZombie @ Oct 19 2007, 07:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656780"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->pyro seems pretty hit-and-miss, literally... sometimes I'll bathe someone in flame and nothing will happen, sometimes I can just graze them from 10 feet away and they'll catch on fire.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Last night after some extensive playing I noticed this too. I also chased a Medic and Soldier(separate occasions) with a constant flame on them for a good 6 seconds and they didn't die. I was questioning if they were cheating or not for the first couple seconds.
<!--quoteo(post=1656891:date=Oct 20 2007, 09:46 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Oct 20 2007, 09:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The comic captured the TF2 graphics perfectly, just wonderful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ian is a god damn master at art, I love everything he does.
<!--quoteo(post=1656732:date=Oct 19 2007, 04:09 AM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Oct 19 2007, 04:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656732"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think you're confusing "pompous" with "awesome." and "teen peeps with huge ASCII titles" with "amazing person like Redford."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> as much as I usually don't I have to agree with sherpa here, the introduction is very long winded; though some may find this enjoyable it seems counter productive to provide both in a single piece. You will either want concise eloquent tactical & strategic information, or you'll want a slick swish engrossing storyline. But their combination takes a long time to read, and if one element of the guide doesn't meet the expectations of the reader (particularly people who do not wish to have both in one) then you're going to lose your audiance. :/
Yes. Any healing will put out fire, though medigun takes a brief moment so you cant just tap it on a group of burning teammates and quench all the fires right away.
<!--quoteo(post=1656932:date=Oct 20 2007, 03:43 PM:name=ZiGGY)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZiGGY @ Oct 20 2007, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656932"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as much as I usually don't I have to agree with sherpa here, the introduction is very long winded; though some may find this enjoyable it seems counter productive to provide both in a single piece. You will either want concise eloquent tactical & strategic information, or you'll want a slick swish engrossing storyline. But their combination takes a long time to read, and if one element of the guide doesn't meet the expectations of the reader (particularly people who do not wish to have both in one) then you're going to lose your audiance. :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, you could always skip it. That's what the section headings are for. Durr.
I haven't had a good use for team disguises. I normally just cloak if I'm going somewhere I might be seen. What's the point of being disguised as your own team if no one ever sees you anyways. Another thing is you have to have balls of steel. If someone shoots you just ignore it and pretend you don't notice. Most of the time, they will give up after a shot or 2. For me I like going Pyro or Soldier. I never ever go scout because it is way to obvious.
1 MAJOR thing. Never stare or avoid running into the enemy. How often are you staring at your team or moving around people. This applies to buildings also. I love disguising as a pyro in 2fort and heading down into the flag room. If you go straight to that corner between the 2 doors, the engie in there most often will never check you. Just make sure you are not staring at him and turn your view side to side between the doors. then go over to "refill" ammo at the dispenser and sap, sap, backstab <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Sappers do constant damage. If you can get the next sapper on instantly after one sapper goes down (pretty easy, just hammer +attack) the sentry won't heal and the engie has to make a whole nother 2 hits with the spanner. Basicly, if it's spy vs engie 1 on 1 for an extended period of time on a sentry, spy pretty much always wins by just spamming sappers. The engie might kill you before/after, but you can still eat up all that time spent building the sentry just by taking it down. Hit up the dispenser too, the engie can't desap both at the same time... makes him start pretty much from square 1. Basically, unless there is an observant demoman, pyro, or heavy near by, an engie really can't stop a determined spy from destroying his crap.
The engie is really very weak. If you're dumb as a brick and just run on headlong into his sentries you'll die, ya, but there are like 5 unstoppable counters. Demospam works most of the time. Good spys. virtually any class going uber. Peekshot soldiers. 100% Sniper shots combined with an attack from virtually any shotgun.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Demoman sticky bombs are the inevitable death of anything in that area if you don't kill the demoman. Is also a quite potent anti base assault (instead of the defensive role he is supposed to have). If the mighty spy fails and the uber team can't get to the location, its demo-time accompanied by: "hoping you don't get killed before your 8 sticky bombs are in place ready to do their thing".
Still a pyro on defense near turret and dispenser is quite imortal vs spy, which is also a very mean tactic vs the spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1657018:date=Oct 21 2007, 03:56 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Oct 21 2007, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Demoman sticky bombs are the inevitable death of anything in that area if you don't kill the demoman. Is also a quite potent anti base assault (instead of the defensive role he is supposed to have). If the mighty spy fails and the uber team can't get to the location, its demo-time accompanied by: "hoping you don't get killed before your 8 sticky bombs are in place ready to do their thing".
Still a pyro on defense near turret and dispenser is quite imortal vs spy, which is also a very mean tactic vs the spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is, most people are determined to use grenades as demoman, rather then stickys (which are superior, I usually charge up max then fling a sticky across the map and detonate on a turret/sniper, they never see it coming). Stickys allows you to not have direct line of sight of the turret while still blowing it up if 3 or more stickys are somewhat near it. A ubered demoman is the defenses worst fear. Also, when someone comes ubering a straight path, chuck 8 stickys at the same place, when the ubered person (medic or the other) walks over them (they will as they are foolishly immortal) and as you hit the button it will send even a heavy flying 200feet at any direction he had of the stickys, thus breaking the uber connection.
Dustbowl level 1 has a bug in the door, it allows you to shoot through it at a certain place so a sniper can get 2-3 kills even before the match has started, wonder if it is reported?
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1657020:date=Oct 21 2007, 10:12 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Oct 21 2007, 10:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657020"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, when someone comes ubering a straight path, chuck 8 stickys at the same place, when the ubered person (medic or the other) walks over them (they will as they are foolishly immortal) and as you hit the button it will send even a heavy flying 200feet at any direction he had of the stickys, thus breaking the uber connection.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do this with my soldier, shooting rockets between the ubered unit and the medic... I can knock them away from each other but it normally doesn't break the connection. If more people realized to do this it would actually work pretty consistently.
On the other side of this, one time when I was heavy this happened to me. I went flying 200 feet into the air and landed directly behind my enemies. I stood there for like 5 seconds trying to switch weapons because I was out of ammo... I switched to my fists, and punched every enemy there. About 5 guys got killed. I felt like a really fat and slow spy...
Does a heavy's fist insta-kill every class except for heavies?
I have quickly realized that I would be insane assuming that I could place and record all the amazing techniques people have put into this thread and combine them into my own guide, at least for beginners. For this reason, you may see things you have already said in this thread within this post. There isn't much I can do about this. I did not steal your ideas. 100% of the content within this particular post was already planned before other people started adding their ideas. This means if I inadvertently copied your ideas, I am sorry. However, what this also means is I want you to keep posting your techniques. Lessons four through six will be about advanced techniques and I will pull them from this thread (in addition to my own) to allow a centralized location for the best ones.
If you can't wait that long, just read the rest of this thread. The spies within are at least my equal in skill if not better and can help you in real time while I am busy trying to write a centralized guide for all their excellent ideas.
As for the people that complained about my opening I am forced to admit that being a spy is more about a state of mind then any amount of text could communicate. The opening exists in order to communicate the state of mind in a terrible inefficient way that text can only hint at. If it's really annoying and this guide somehow receives a more widespread distribution over the internet, I will consider replacing it with something less intrusive.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->The six lessons<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
There are six major key techniques which contribute to being a spy.
You must <b>choose your attacks</b>. In many cases you will be forced to wait for situation to infiltrate, or after you have infiltrated you must choose which targets to destroy and liquefy them.
In order to remain in infiltration, you must <b>keep your enemy guessing</b>. This is a small, but vital part of being a spy. If an enemy expects the spy they will be vigilant. You must not only alter disguise, but situation to keep the enemy on their toes.
In some games you must value your life. As a spy you must learn that it is almost worthless. <b>Fight to create a weakness</b>. If you die to a sentry gun killing the demoman which is camping the door or cap point with his stickybombs, then you have done your job as a spy.
After you have mastered the three basic arts, then it is time to perfect your technique. What makes a good infiltration? Knowledge is power. Lesson four will explain the <b>weaknesses of the spy when infiltrating</b> and <b>effective infiltration technique</b> .
After you have infiltrated, what do you do? Lesson five will be the exacting points of <b>maintaining your disguise after infiltration</b> and <b>picking your targets well</b>.
And finally, if all else fails, lesson six will focus on <b>non-infiltration combat technique</b>. With this information you will be well prepared to fight the enemy team without a cloak and disguise - just your wits.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lesson one: Choose your attacks<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Being a spy at it's most basic is fighting your urge to grab a giant gun and go charging headfirst at your enemies. Therefore, the very first thing a new spy must know is picking a disguise, and then infiltrating at the right time rather then just charging at your foe. As a spy, if you are infiltrating, the objective will be split into three sections. First, you must pick a disguise and infiltrate. Secondly will be avoiding suspicion while you pick a target or wait for an opening. Thirdly will be liquefying that target and perhaps escaping to do it again. As a new spy, however, I suggest you forget about living through your attempt until later. Baby steps.
The more complex factors of creating a flawless infiltration will be covered in lesson 4. If you are just getting used to spy there are still a few very important things to remember. The most important part of your infiltration are your cloak and disguise. Your job is to use your cloak and move to a place where your disguise will fit in with the enemy team (or are in a place where you can liquefy an asset). It sounds simple enough, but if someone sees you running the wrong way as a disguise, your cover is blown. If someone sees you with your teammates in a disguise, your cover is blown. If someone runs into you while you are cloaked, or simply gets suspicious then your cover may in fact be blown in a more literal fashion. If you are new to a spy, the most effective disguises you can probably choose are Pyro (3) or Demoman (4). These move close to spy speed and do not have any really easy to detect differences from their source classes.
The most important part of infiltration is waiting for a good time at which to do it. If the enemy has a large wave of players running down an alley throwing rockets and bullets, find another place to infiltrate, or wait for them to come out and then sneak behind them. As you are infiltrating, keep away from enemy gunfire, and do not stand near your team's players (who are very good at attracting enemy gunfire). Be careful around corners as well. If you bump into a wave of enemy players running out of their respawn to kill your team dead then your infiltration attempt probably won't last very long. For now it is important that you focus on getting to where you are going, and not running into someone getting there.
This is going to be the shortest phase, especially for a new spy. Keeping infiltrated for long periods of time can be incredibly dangerous. I highly suggest that you pick a target rapidly, perhaps even before you come out of cloak. In general, good targets are undefended sentryguns, or occupied attackers and defenders who aren't going to notice you uncloaking behind them. If you are new to the spying business then you should try to pick and destroy whatever you can get your hands on. Later, you can hide out behind enemy lines until a very good opportunity presents itself.
Finally, you must come down upon your target and kill them. If you are killing a person, it would be best to wait until the person is both focused and occupied. What does this mean? If a person is occupied, they are doing something other then looking for you, understanding you are there, or are otherwise NOT interested in paying attention to you. A person standing still looking at the enemy cap point is still considered occupied. If he sees you uncloak with your disguise, however, he is paying attention to you and is not. Being focused is something more complex. If a person is focused then he will not instantly turn around and gut you the moment you uncloak. If you started to uncloak behind someone and he glanced behind himself, saw you, and then blew you into tiny pieces, then that person was clearly not focused. Even when a person is both occupied with something else and focused on performing it he may still run around like crazy or other things. This means the best possible human targets for a spy are snipers, heavies, medics, and engineers. Most other classes move around a lot. Scouts and pyros, in general, are terrible targets for an attempted backstab.
If you are attempting to kill a sentry gun, then you must deal with it's engineer as well. Sometimes if you are lucky (or smart) you can place a sapper on a totally ignored SG and it will explode before the engineer gets there. As you might know, a sapper constantly damages the sentry gun and also stuns it so that it can't shoot back. If there is one engineer and one sentry gun, then the best course of action is to place a sapper, and then watch the engineer. If he tries to attack you, back away. If he follows you then pull out your revolver and then shoot him or his turret. If he tries to remove the sapper, then wait until he strikes twice (removing the sapper) and during this window, place another one. Wrench strikes to remove sappers do not repair the turret so if you time your sappers perfectly then you can kill the turret even with the engineer hitting it constantly with a wrench. Standing still is not a good thing, and can get you killed. As there are more engineers and more buildings, your job can get EASIER instead of harder. The engineers can not keep track of which sappers to remove and which turrets to repair, so if you run around placing sappers on everything you can often destroy much of the asset without the enemy being able to kill you.
Now may be a good time to stop reading words and just try to play spy for a little while if you are new to the class. After you have died a whole lot (or have used the numerous other good ideas in this thread to improve your technique) come back and continue reading with a bearing on how utterly hopeless or dangerous a spy can be in the hands of a skilled player.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lesson Two: Keep the enemy guessing<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is a very short lesson, but is also a vital part of being a spy. Therefore it gets it's own section as opposed to being sandwiched somewhere else. In order to keep the enemy from being too suspicious you will need to change disguises, timing, and technique. Changing disguises as you infiltrate is simple. If you disguised as something the first time, disguise as something else the next time. Sometimes, do NOT change your disguise as well. What I am trying to say is to not get into a pattern. Against a pub team this may not be so important, but there ARE people out there who hate spies who will memorize disguise patterns to thwart you especially in high level play. If you have just infiltrated, similarly, do not infiltrate again instantly, as your enemy will expect it. Wait a bit. Pick off that scout with your revolver, what have you. This sounds like a waste of time (because it is) but if you infiltrate constantly your enemy will be expecting you. This can be dangerous. Finally you may want to consider different techniques. For example it may be possible to throw your enemy off guard by doing something stupid, and then while they are waiting for you to make the same mistake again, sneak behind them and kill them while they are off their guard.
What I am attempting to say in this section is be creative with your infiltration technique. Do not just do the same thing over and over. Look for clever ways to sneak behind and around your enemy so they will never expect the spy until it is too late.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lesson Three: Fight to create a weakness<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is another very metaphysical part of being a spy. Very zen. You must think beyond the physical form of your foe and identify his location within the enemy's defense, and then choose that weakness to exploit. Up until this point I have not talked about the spy's teammates (clumsy noisy explosion making baboons that they are) but they become much more important in this case. When you are thinking of weaknesses you must know where your team is, where the enemy is, and what you can do between them. For example, if there is a group of enemies trying to push to your cap point but your defense is holding (for now) you should sneak behind them and stab them while they are both distracted and focused. If your enemy is getting murdered by snipers or sentry guns, then it is your job to sneak behind them and kill them, or at the very least stun or distract them. In many cases your effort will result in death. This is not important. As long as your action cleared the blockade that was impeding your team then you can instantly and completely turn the tide of the entire encounter. That is a good feeling, and is the essence of the spy. Use the equipment in lesson zero, and the skills in lessons one and two to create a situation where your team can dominate. If you can understand the importance of the situation you create rather then your score or the kills you make then you are well on your way to becoming an expert spy. Even the most clumsy and skill-less spy can turn the tide of an entire game with a well-placed sapper on a turret. That incredibly potential to obliterate everything the enemy team has worked for with a single mouse click (even so indirectly) is why people play the spy.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I will do my best to integrate reader content into lessons 4-6. Do not forget to leave your techniques and comments. Thank you!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Private_ColemanPhD in Video GamesJoin Date: 2002-11-07Member: 7510Members
When you are a spy on defense if you are not able to get behind the enemy team without blowing your cover, take point and lead them directly into a sentry gun. They will assume the way is clear when you walk into the middle of the ramp room in 2fort and turn around and stare at them expectingly. Imagine their surprise when a big fat sentry gun and/or group of friendlies shoots them to hell. Works very well against a team with a medic in it healing you.
You include a ton of good info and the philosophy is sound. Just please make it more concise. Guides should be instantly accessible. You shouldn't have to wade through or skip past a bunch of story and textbook language to get to what your after.
I imagine a less forgiving reader would stop at the first paragraph, dismiss the whole thing as some fan fiction fluff piece, and miss the real 'meat' of the guide.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1657131:date=Oct 22 2007, 05:05 PM:name=UKchaos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(UKchaos @ Oct 22 2007, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You include a ton of good info and the philosophy is sound. Just please make it more concise. Guides should be instantly accessible. You shouldn't have to wade through or skip past a bunch of story and textbook language to get to what your after.
I imagine a less forgivable reader would stop at the first paragraph, dismiss the whole thing as some fan fiction fluff piece, and miss the real 'meat' of the guide.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Keeping first posts up2date since the dawn of time (this is not your thread Kouji_San GTFO <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon5.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> )
<!--quoteo(post=1657134:date=Oct 22 2007, 04:26 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Oct 22 2007, 04:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Keeping first posts up2date since the dawn of time (this is not your thread Kouji_San GTFO <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon5.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> )<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I just like to keep the first post of a thread I make up2date with all relevent info. So people who don't want to read the entire thread can simply glance over the first post to find what they are looking for.
But this aint my thread so I just told my self to GTFO <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1657018:date=Oct 21 2007, 08:56 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Oct 21 2007, 08:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Demoman sticky bombs are the inevitable death of anything in that area if you don't kill the demoman. Is also a quite potent anti base assault (instead of the defensive role he is supposed to have). If the mighty spy fails and the uber team can't get to the location, its demo-time accompanied by: "hoping you don't get killed before your 8 sticky bombs are in place ready to do their thing".
Still a pyro on defense near turret and dispenser is quite imortal vs spy, which is also a very mean tactic vs the spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ya, but camp with your pyro and pretty quickly you run into another problem... They pyro is pretty close to the most useless class in the game against any team with a medic, let alone a medic who has uber charged. Being that uber is one of the best sentry counters, and pyro's are weak against medics, you quickly find that your really pretty hopeless of just holding the sentry position without devoting a signifigant chunk of your team to active defense. Keeping sentries alive forces your team to defend defensively... and while sometimes that's a good thing, the majority of the time in TF2 the old adage rings true, the best defense is a good offense. If you allow the enemy to fight on your territory it's inevitable that you eventually just lose your territory.
The best thing turrets can do is play cleanup behind the front lines. Scouts and spys will get past main combat forces and get into your vital area's, it's worth it to have turrets in places where they will stop the scout sharp.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Hmm pyro is quite a dangerous class for the enemy team from what I've seen. The way I play him is near and arround the CP's when enemies attack and when they are dead I move to the fronlines to fire'em up and shotty them down. I have absolutly no problems with medics though. Sure ubered means unkillable, but that uber isn't going to last and while ubered he can't shoot me and the ubered soldier, heavy or whatever is busy trying to get to a location to kill tht turret or take that cp... Two pyro's working together can destroy an entire team if they are played correctly.
I also don't camp in a location ontop of the turret mind you, I move around constantly outflanking and setting spies/scouts on fire if I hear the engineer crying about spies I move over there <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Or if I'm not able to take targets down I can at least distract them long enough for the rest to take em down.
As you said a good defense is a good offence, and the pyro has the speed and loads of killing power, just don't take him out in the open and stick to corridors and small rooms. I myself seem to be constantly moving from defending area to offending and back again when playing pyro. I seem to be moving much more then when playing other classes (besides scout)
IMHO pyro is easymode most of the time, since it doesn't take much aiming skill to damage or even whipe out an entire team.
All of the above are simply things I've seen or have done with the pyro, but enough about that. Back to spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I play Soldier and Engy a lot and I can tell you no Spy has the advantage over me. I barely ever get backstabbed with those classes because as Engy you shoot every sob who gets near your sentry and you pack a punch if you know how to handle a shotgun, and as Soldier you have 4 powerful rockets and a shotgun to screw Spies over with.
The 6 kills on Dustbowl were against a bunch of total noobs. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/daedalus/stats/TF2" target="_blank">These</a> may well be his stats: not amazingly impressive. The music's good though, and the last tip is hilarious!
4.30 is exactly why I think the Spy is too easy. Sidestab is LAME, the only reason I can think it made it in is to pander to crapaim Xboxers.
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--quoteo(post=1657323:date=Oct 23 2007, 10:25 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Oct 23 2007, 10:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4.30 is exactly why I think the Spy is too easy. Sidestab is LAME, the only reason I can think it made it in is to pander to crapaim Xboxers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I saw that too, and wow that's BS. Sappers still need nerfing.
<!--quoteo(post=1657323:date=Oct 23 2007, 11:25 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Oct 23 2007, 11:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I play Soldier and Engy a lot and I can tell you no Spy has the advantage over me. I barely ever get backstabbed with those classes because as Engy you shoot every sob who gets near your sentry and you pack a punch if you know how to handle a shotgun, and as Soldier you have 4 powerful rockets and a shotgun to screw Spies over with.
The 6 kills on Dustbowl were against a bunch of total noobs. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/daedalus/stats/TF2" target="_blank">These</a> may well be his stats: not amazingly impressive. The music's good though, and the last tip is hilarious!
4.30 is exactly why I think the Spy is too easy. Sidestab is LAME, the only reason I can think it made it in is to pander to crapaim Xboxers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I doubt those are his stats. My spy scores are higher than the dude you linked and the tut guy is obviously a much better player from the tutorial stuff shown.
Or he just got lucky. On average I get like 3 kills per life, but every once in a while you manage to come from a completely unexpected direction and then there's just an orgy of backstabbing. Makes you want to scream with manliness.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
haha that spaypaint kill is pure ownage <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Did anyone here get a medic to unleesh uber on them while playing enemy spy? Because the medic that did it to me was quite annoyed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1657364:date=Oct 23 2007, 10:22 PM:name=Liku)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Liku @ Oct 23 2007, 10:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657364"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw that too, and wow that's BS. Sappers still need nerfing.
Lulz at that video Disco.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Side stab is important to keep, snipers shouldn't be able to avoid one of their biggest enemies simply by having their back against a wall, it's good that people need to actually give a ###### where spies are and not just be happy that because they're planted to the back end of a map they have a fighting chance against someone that has evaded that far.
And sappers are fine, a good engineer will kill a spy that is sapping constantly easily, and if the spy doesn't stick around then sappers don't really do anything if the rest of their team follow.
Comments
My question: What does this look like to the opposing team?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is actually useful for moving up to the frontlines before trying to infiltrate so you don't clue your enemy into the fact you are a spy and that they should be on the look out. After all, running up to the frontlines disguised as them looks very suspicious, and not being disguised lets them know a spy is hanging around. It can also be used to put yourself as a decoy if you don't care about dying. Disguise as a medic, heavy, or something, and you'll be a bigger target.
I believe if you disguise as a class the other team doesn't have, anybody who looks at you will see their name.
Lastly, it's not a good idea to hang around the other team's areas once you infiltrate. They'll catch on eventually. And don't hang around a sentry gun when you sap it. Run around a nearby corner or something.
Depends on why you are sapping it.
IF you are just trying to let some one get past (flag carrier), spamming the sapper will keep it down as the jump over.
And yah, Ian really hit the art style perfectly, and his ingame spray is wonderful <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Last night after some extensive playing I noticed this too. I also chased a Medic and Soldier(separate occasions) with a constant flame on them for a good 6 seconds and they didn't die. I was questioning if they were cheating or not for the first couple seconds.
<!--quoteo(post=1656891:date=Oct 20 2007, 09:46 AM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Oct 20 2007, 09:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1656891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The comic captured the TF2 graphics perfectly, just wonderful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ian is a god damn master at art, I love everything he does.
as much as I usually don't I have to agree with sherpa here, the introduction is very long winded; though some may find this enjoyable it seems counter productive to provide both in a single piece. You will either want concise eloquent tactical & strategic information, or you'll want a slick swish engrossing storyline. But their combination takes a long time to read, and if one element of the guide doesn't meet the expectations of the reader (particularly people who do not wish to have both in one) then you're going to lose your audiance. :/
Uh, you could always skip it. That's what the section headings are for. Durr.
What's the point of being disguised as your own team if no one ever sees you anyways.
Another thing is you have to have balls of steel. If someone shoots you just ignore it and pretend you don't notice.
Most of the time, they will give up after a shot or 2.
For me I like going Pyro or Soldier. I never ever go scout because it is way to obvious.
1 MAJOR thing. Never stare or avoid running into the enemy. How often are you staring at your team or moving around people.
This applies to buildings also.
I love disguising as a pyro in 2fort and heading down into the flag room.
If you go straight to that corner between the 2 doors, the engie in there most often will never check you.
Just make sure you are not staring at him and turn your view side to side between the doors.
then go over to "refill" ammo at the dispenser and sap, sap, backstab <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
13 backstabs in one life ftw
The engie is really very weak. If you're dumb as a brick and just run on headlong into his sentries you'll die, ya, but there are like 5 unstoppable counters. Demospam works most of the time. Good spys. virtually any class going uber. Peekshot soldiers. 100% Sniper shots combined with an attack from virtually any shotgun.
Still a pyro on defense near turret and dispenser is quite imortal vs spy, which is also a very mean tactic vs the spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Still a pyro on defense near turret and dispenser is quite imortal vs spy, which is also a very mean tactic vs the spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is, most people are determined to use grenades as demoman, rather then stickys (which are superior, I usually charge up max then fling a sticky across the map and detonate on a turret/sniper, they never see it coming). Stickys allows you to not have direct line of sight of the turret while still blowing it up if 3 or more stickys are somewhat near it. A ubered demoman is the defenses worst fear. Also, when someone comes ubering a straight path, chuck 8 stickys at the same place, when the ubered person (medic or the other) walks over them (they will as they are foolishly immortal) and as you hit the button it will send even a heavy flying 200feet at any direction he had of the stickys, thus breaking the uber connection.
Dustbowl level 1 has a bug in the door, it allows you to shoot through it at a certain place so a sniper can get 2-3 kills even before the match has started, wonder if it is reported?
I do this with my soldier, shooting rockets between the ubered unit and the medic... I can knock them away from each other but it normally doesn't break the connection. If more people realized to do this it would actually work pretty consistently.
On the other side of this, one time when I was heavy this happened to me. I went flying 200 feet into the air and landed directly behind my enemies. I stood there for like 5 seconds trying to switch weapons because I was out of ammo... I switched to my fists, and punched every enemy there. About 5 guys got killed. I felt like a really fat and slow spy...
Does a heavy's fist insta-kill every class except for heavies?
I have quickly realized that I would be insane assuming that I could place and record all the amazing techniques people have put into this thread and combine them into my own guide, at least for beginners. For this reason, you may see things you have already said in this thread within this post. There isn't much I can do about this. I did not steal your ideas. 100% of the content within this particular post was already planned before other people started adding their ideas. This means if I inadvertently copied your ideas, I am sorry. However, what this also means is I want you to keep posting your techniques. Lessons four through six will be about advanced techniques and I will pull them from this thread (in addition to my own) to allow a centralized location for the best ones.
If you can't wait that long, just read the rest of this thread. The spies within are at least my equal in skill if not better and can help you in real time while I am busy trying to write a centralized guide for all their excellent ideas.
As for the people that complained about my opening I am forced to admit that being a spy is more about a state of mind then any amount of text could communicate. The opening exists in order to communicate the state of mind in a terrible inefficient way that text can only hint at. If it's really annoying and this guide somehow receives a more widespread distribution over the internet, I will consider replacing it with something less intrusive.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->The six lessons<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
There are six major key techniques which contribute to being a spy.
You must <b>choose your attacks</b>. In many cases you will be forced to wait for situation to infiltrate, or after you have infiltrated you must choose which targets to destroy and liquefy them.
In order to remain in infiltration, you must <b>keep your enemy guessing</b>. This is a small, but vital part of being a spy. If an enemy expects the spy they will be vigilant. You must not only alter disguise, but situation to keep the enemy on their toes.
In some games you must value your life. As a spy you must learn that it is almost worthless. <b>Fight to create a weakness</b>. If you die to a sentry gun killing the demoman which is camping the door or cap point with his stickybombs, then you have done your job as a spy.
After you have mastered the three basic arts, then it is time to perfect your technique. What makes a good infiltration? Knowledge is power. Lesson four will explain the <b>weaknesses of the spy when infiltrating</b> and <b>effective infiltration technique</b> .
After you have infiltrated, what do you do? Lesson five will be the exacting points of <b>maintaining your disguise after infiltration</b> and <b>picking your targets well</b>.
And finally, if all else fails, lesson six will focus on <b>non-infiltration combat technique</b>. With this information you will be well prepared to fight the enemy team without a cloak and disguise - just your wits.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lesson one: Choose your attacks<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Being a spy at it's most basic is fighting your urge to grab a giant gun and go charging headfirst at your enemies. Therefore, the very first thing a new spy must know is picking a disguise, and then infiltrating at the right time rather then just charging at your foe. As a spy, if you are infiltrating, the objective will be split into three sections. First, you must pick a disguise and infiltrate. Secondly will be avoiding suspicion while you pick a target or wait for an opening. Thirdly will be liquefying that target and perhaps escaping to do it again. As a new spy, however, I suggest you forget about living through your attempt until later. Baby steps.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Phase one: infiltration<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The more complex factors of creating a flawless infiltration will be covered in lesson 4. If you are just getting used to spy there are still a few very important things to remember. The most important part of your infiltration are your cloak and disguise. Your job is to use your cloak and move to a place where your disguise will fit in with the enemy team (or are in a place where you can liquefy an asset). It sounds simple enough, but if someone sees you running the wrong way as a disguise, your cover is blown. If someone sees you with your teammates in a disguise, your cover is blown. If someone runs into you while you are cloaked, or simply gets suspicious then your cover may in fact be blown in a more literal fashion. If you are new to a spy, the most effective disguises you can probably choose are Pyro (3) or Demoman (4). These move close to spy speed and do not have any really easy to detect differences from their source classes.
The most important part of infiltration is waiting for a good time at which to do it. If the enemy has a large wave of players running down an alley throwing rockets and bullets, find another place to infiltrate, or wait for them to come out and then sneak behind them. As you are infiltrating, keep away from enemy gunfire, and do not stand near your team's players (who are very good at attracting enemy gunfire). Be careful around corners as well. If you bump into a wave of enemy players running out of their respawn to kill your team dead then your infiltration attempt probably won't last very long. For now it is important that you focus on getting to where you are going, and not running into someone getting there.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Phase two: observation<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is going to be the shortest phase, especially for a new spy. Keeping infiltrated for long periods of time can be incredibly dangerous. I highly suggest that you pick a target rapidly, perhaps even before you come out of cloak. In general, good targets are undefended sentryguns, or occupied attackers and defenders who aren't going to notice you uncloaking behind them. If you are new to the spying business then you should try to pick and destroy whatever you can get your hands on. Later, you can hide out behind enemy lines until a very good opportunity presents itself.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Phase three: liquidation<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Finally, you must come down upon your target and kill them. If you are killing a person, it would be best to wait until the person is both focused and occupied. What does this mean? If a person is occupied, they are doing something other then looking for you, understanding you are there, or are otherwise NOT interested in paying attention to you. A person standing still looking at the enemy cap point is still considered occupied. If he sees you uncloak with your disguise, however, he is paying attention to you and is not. Being focused is something more complex. If a person is focused then he will not instantly turn around and gut you the moment you uncloak. If you started to uncloak behind someone and he glanced behind himself, saw you, and then blew you into tiny pieces, then that person was clearly not focused. Even when a person is both occupied with something else and focused on performing it he may still run around like crazy or other things. This means the best possible human targets for a spy are snipers, heavies, medics, and engineers. Most other classes move around a lot. Scouts and pyros, in general, are terrible targets for an attempted backstab.
If you are attempting to kill a sentry gun, then you must deal with it's engineer as well. Sometimes if you are lucky (or smart) you can place a sapper on a totally ignored SG and it will explode before the engineer gets there. As you might know, a sapper constantly damages the sentry gun and also stuns it so that it can't shoot back. If there is one engineer and one sentry gun, then the best course of action is to place a sapper, and then watch the engineer. If he tries to attack you, back away. If he follows you then pull out your revolver and then shoot him or his turret. If he tries to remove the sapper, then wait until he strikes twice (removing the sapper) and during this window, place another one. Wrench strikes to remove sappers do not repair the turret so if you time your sappers perfectly then you can kill the turret even with the engineer hitting it constantly with a wrench. Standing still is not a good thing, and can get you killed. As there are more engineers and more buildings, your job can get EASIER instead of harder. The engineers can not keep track of which sappers to remove and which turrets to repair, so if you run around placing sappers on everything you can often destroy much of the asset without the enemy being able to kill you.
Now may be a good time to stop reading words and just try to play spy for a little while if you are new to the class. After you have died a whole lot (or have used the numerous other good ideas in this thread to improve your technique) come back and continue reading with a bearing on how utterly hopeless or dangerous a spy can be in the hands of a skilled player.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lesson Two: Keep the enemy guessing<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is a very short lesson, but is also a vital part of being a spy. Therefore it gets it's own section as opposed to being sandwiched somewhere else. In order to keep the enemy from being too suspicious you will need to change disguises, timing, and technique. Changing disguises as you infiltrate is simple. If you disguised as something the first time, disguise as something else the next time. Sometimes, do NOT change your disguise as well. What I am trying to say is to not get into a pattern. Against a pub team this may not be so important, but there ARE people out there who hate spies who will memorize disguise patterns to thwart you especially in high level play. If you have just infiltrated, similarly, do not infiltrate again instantly, as your enemy will expect it. Wait a bit. Pick off that scout with your revolver, what have you. This sounds like a waste of time (because it is) but if you infiltrate constantly your enemy will be expecting you. This can be dangerous. Finally you may want to consider different techniques. For example it may be possible to throw your enemy off guard by doing something stupid, and then while they are waiting for you to make the same mistake again, sneak behind them and kill them while they are off their guard.
What I am attempting to say in this section is be creative with your infiltration technique. Do not just do the same thing over and over. Look for clever ways to sneak behind and around your enemy so they will never expect the spy until it is too late.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Lesson Three: Fight to create a weakness<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
This is another very metaphysical part of being a spy. Very zen. You must think beyond the physical form of your foe and identify his location within the enemy's defense, and then choose that weakness to exploit. Up until this point I have not talked about the spy's teammates (clumsy noisy explosion making baboons that they are) but they become much more important in this case. When you are thinking of weaknesses you must know where your team is, where the enemy is, and what you can do between them. For example, if there is a group of enemies trying to push to your cap point but your defense is holding (for now) you should sneak behind them and stab them while they are both distracted and focused. If your enemy is getting murdered by snipers or sentry guns, then it is your job to sneak behind them and kill them, or at the very least stun or distract them. In many cases your effort will result in death. This is not important. As long as your action cleared the blockade that was impeding your team then you can instantly and completely turn the tide of the entire encounter. That is a good feeling, and is the essence of the spy. Use the equipment in lesson zero, and the skills in lessons one and two to create a situation where your team can dominate. If you can understand the importance of the situation you create rather then your score or the kills you make then you are well on your way to becoming an expert spy. Even the most clumsy and skill-less spy can turn the tide of an entire game with a well-placed sapper on a turret. That incredibly potential to obliterate everything the enemy team has worked for with a single mouse click (even so indirectly) is why people play the spy.
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->I will do my best to integrate reader content into lessons 4-6. Do not forget to leave your techniques and comments. Thank you!<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I imagine a less forgiving reader would stop at the first paragraph, dismiss the whole thing as some fan fiction fluff piece, and miss the real 'meat' of the guide.
I imagine a less forgivable reader would stop at the first paragraph, dismiss the whole thing as some fan fiction fluff piece, and miss the real 'meat' of the guide.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keeping first posts up2date since the dawn of time (this is not your thread Kouji_San GTFO <img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon5.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> )
I dont follow you.
But this aint my thread so I just told my self to GTFO <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Still a pyro on defense near turret and dispenser is quite imortal vs spy, which is also a very mean tactic vs the spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ya, but camp with your pyro and pretty quickly you run into another problem... They pyro is pretty close to the most useless class in the game against any team with a medic, let alone a medic who has uber charged. Being that uber is one of the best sentry counters, and pyro's are weak against medics, you quickly find that your really pretty hopeless of just holding the sentry position without devoting a signifigant chunk of your team to active defense. Keeping sentries alive forces your team to defend defensively... and while sometimes that's a good thing, the majority of the time in TF2 the old adage rings true, the best defense is a good offense. If you allow the enemy to fight on your territory it's inevitable that you eventually just lose your territory.
The best thing turrets can do is play cleanup behind the front lines. Scouts and spys will get past main combat forces and get into your vital area's, it's worth it to have turrets in places where they will stop the scout sharp.
I also don't camp in a location ontop of the turret mind you, I move around constantly outflanking and setting spies/scouts on fire if I hear the engineer crying about spies I move over there <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> Or if I'm not able to take targets down I can at least distract them long enough for the rest to take em down.
As you said a good defense is a good offence, and the pyro has the speed and loads of killing power, just don't take him out in the open and stick to corridors and small rooms. I myself seem to be constantly moving from defending area to offending and back again when playing pyro. I seem to be moving much more then when playing other classes (besides scout)
IMHO pyro is easymode most of the time, since it doesn't take much aiming skill to damage or even whipe out an entire team.
All of the above are simply things I've seen or have done with the pyro, but enough about that. Back to spies <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
The 6 kills on Dustbowl were against a bunch of total noobs. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/daedalus/stats/TF2" target="_blank">These</a> may well be his stats: not amazingly impressive. The music's good though, and the last tip is hilarious!
4.30 is exactly why I think the Spy is too easy. Sidestab is LAME, the only reason I can think it made it in is to pander to crapaim Xboxers.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/29RE0blCV84"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/29RE0blCV84" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
I saw that too, and wow that's BS. Sappers still need nerfing.
Lulz at that video Disco.
The 6 kills on Dustbowl were against a bunch of total noobs. <a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/daedalus/stats/TF2" target="_blank">These</a> may well be his stats: not amazingly impressive. The music's good though, and the last tip is hilarious!
4.30 is exactly why I think the Spy is too easy. Sidestab is LAME, the only reason I can think it made it in is to pander to crapaim Xboxers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt those are his stats. My spy scores are higher than the dude you linked and the tut guy is obviously a much better player from the tutorial stuff shown.
On average I get like 3 kills per life, but every once in a while you manage to come from a completely unexpected direction and then there's just an orgy of backstabbing. Makes you want to scream with manliness.
Did anyone here get a medic to unleesh uber on them while playing enemy spy? Because the medic that did it to me was quite annoyed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Lulz at that video Disco.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Side stab is important to keep, snipers shouldn't be able to avoid one of their biggest enemies simply by having their back against a wall, it's good that people need to actually give a ###### where spies are and not just be happy that because they're planted to the back end of a map they have a fighting chance against someone that has evaded that far.
And sappers are fine, a good engineer will kill a spy that is sapping constantly easily, and if the spy doesn't stick around then sappers don't really do anything if the rest of their team follow.