I think it should be first to secure 2 hives ( since aliens would have to get one to get better stuff and marines would have to becuase they have to be stopped.) Or to get to a certain point of the map and make a certain amount of turrets.
I really agree with the time limit. Most games I play don't "finish" for hours while the victor won hands down at maybe the 30 minutes mark.
I'd like to see NS changed so this drawn-out end gets cut. I love the early game as a LMG marine or a speedy skulk of DOOM!, I love the mid game with its Fades and Heavy's armed with what-have-you. I love how resource nodes change hands back and forth in the intense fighting. End game? eh... It just draws on.
From both sides I've seen marines last forever with no extra nodes. I've seen aliens last forever with 1 hive and a few remaining fades. The losing team gets trap'd in their base and all resources are pooring into the victor's pool. There is no way for the losing team to make a come back, yet given a few good players, can hold on for hours. This is probably the one thing I dislike about NS. I hope Flayra changes this in some magical way that only the dev of this kick **obscenity** mod could! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Until then I think a time limit on the games, with resources as the score, would be the best measure of the victor.
As this mod is a plagiarization of Gloom, you should take the Gloom league style. And to anyone saying CAL is the best league out there; youre an idiot. Honestly, go and die. CPL/CAL = CS, and Q3 DM. Games that honestly do not require any sort of brain activity.
<!--QuoteBegin--absent+Nov 16 2002, 09:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (absent @ Nov 16 2002, 09:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->As this mod is a plagiarization of Gloom, you should take the Gloom league style. And to anyone saying CAL is the best league out there; youre an idiot. Honestly, go and die. CPL/CAL = CS, and Q3 DM. Games that honestly do not require any sort of brain activity.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, CAL does have some CS divisions (5 to be exact), but that's only out of 22 divisions. Less than 1/4 actually. Although I am not a fan of CS, your assessment of both it and Q3 DM (especially Q3 DM) are completely wrong. I'd like to see how well you do in either one of those games versus some of the top players (especially Q3 DM).
Like I was saying, though, CAL is not just for CS, although there are over 90,000 CS players at any one time (I guess that would explain 5 divisions). There is a league for BF1942, TFC, JKII, DoD (2 actually), SoF2 (2 here also), plus many more. IMO CAL is the best league out there, but then again I am a bit biased. However, just because you disagree with me on that does not mean you need to start throwing insults.
We're working very hard to bring the best NS league to the people, and we will do it.
And I really do not think you truely understand the differences between Gloom and Natural Selection. It is not a rip off. Gloom may have had an influence on the team, but no more than Aliens or Star Craft. Its like I read from a post somewhere else on this forum. Every game/movie/book now a days takes something from the works of art preceeding it, but that does not make it a rip off nor does it make those preceeding works of art original. It just means that when you are working with Sci-Fi storylines, practically everything has been done one way or another. There will be similarities between them all. Dont insult the developers and the rest of the NS team with such comments, its just pure fabrication.
I think timelimit can hurt gameplay and enjoyment from this game. Most fullfilling games are those longer where sides are even and progress goes slowly with constant fighting in some areas, games where no side has absolute domination. I love this game because it allows such situations and situations where loosing team can turn over progress of game and eventually win, however this needs time... In real world there rarely happend games that last longer than 60 minutes, but if they do, they are the funniest, so why to limit them?
And some coment to CAL pool ... pools like such should be made in way where people could check more options (like I can play on Monday, Sunday, and Wednesday) this way it's easy to tell which day is best for people. In pool where people can check just one option it shows just most popular but not most acceptable day.
I havn't fully grasped the CAL rules yet, but I do want to comment on othell's comments about a game not being fun when played for a hour or two week after week. This is simply not true. NS is billed largely as a stragety game, which it is. Stragety games tend to last 1, 2, hell even 3 hours.
I used to play Warcraft 2 on Kali and I was very involved in one league. We played many matches that passed the two hour mark, and we did it every night for months.
I don't really ahve a problem with the time limit, but it does make it seem like the rules of the game are being centered more on people with the short attention span more than on the core audience of NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->although there are over 90,000 CS players at any one time <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
where are you getting that figure?
if you're talking about gamespy stats...that includes ALL of halife and ALL it's mods. I'm talking HLDM, TFC, DOD, FLF, FA, CS, NS, and all the other mods.
And how do you know what the core audiences is? Ok, sure... there are some people that would not mind playing a game for hours on end week after week after week after... but that is not true for the majority of players. Especially for a truly team based game. Which requires a timelimit.
Is Warcraft2 a team based game or is it 1 v 1? The comparison between regular RTS type games and NS will really not hold up that well for league play. NS is a melding of RTS & FPS games. It is highly dependent on organized teams. Attributes from both types of gameplay must be used for NS to be successfull in leagues. The (blasted!) timelimit is one such attribute from traditional FPS type games that must be used.
Find me an FPS game where this is no timelimit. There are specific objectives that must be met to be declared the winner, they just have to be met within the 45 minute timelimit (REMINDER: It is currently 45 minutes, but could be increased if needed IN THE FUTURE).
Currently CAL-NS has 69 teams that are elligible to play once we start. That equals at least 414 players. I can garuntee you the majority of 414 players would not be able to play for hours on end. Some of you may be able to, but 2/3 of those playing would not want to play for that long.
Don't get upset with me. Notice that I used the words "seem" and "I don't have a problem with the timelimit".
You are correct in saying that attributes from both RTS and FPS matches will be required to make this work. Again, I am speaking from my limited experience here, but the hardest of hardcore NS players seem to be into the stragety element of the game. These are the players who will be playing in the leagues, these are the players that won't mind a 2 hour match.
Again I will say that I don't think a time limit is that bad of an idea. There was even a thread elsewhere suggesting there be a time limit for normal public server play, And it sounded like a pretty good idea to me. I really need to get farmiliar with the CAL rules before I can discuss specifics.
Really, the bottom line here is, it is *your* decision to make, if people don't like the CAL rules they don't play in CAL. There will be room for more than one league for NS, I guess the rules you want to play with will be the deciding factor in which one you play in. =)
Oh yeah, Warcraft 2 is/was a team game. 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 3 on 3 or 4 on 4.
I'm not getting upset. I'm just repeating myself. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Right now I have the timelimit set at 45 minutes, a number that I think will encourage teams to attempt more aggressive game play styles, but that number is not set in stone and may actually be changed after the first season... but the only way to really get a feel for how certain settings work is to use them on a massive scale and for an extended period of time. So we're going to try 45 minutes to start out with. I can give you an almost 100% garuntee that I will not lower that timelimit, but there is a chance that I will increase it, but for the time being I think it'll work for well.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Really, the bottom line here is, it is *your* decision to make, if people don't like the CAL rules they don't play in CAL. There will be room for more than one league for NS, I guess the rules you want to play with will be the deciding factor in which one you play in. =)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen. Play where you want. And if you don't choose to play there then don't complain about them.
There is a sticky in this forum group about the OGL NS Ladder. Our rules and playstyle are different than that of CAL (which is good since diversity is always best). Take the time to check out OGL rules for this league...and note that they are tentative at this point due to the newness of the game and league play for it.
Why can't the time limits and the match night be decided by the clans themselves?
And as for not wanting to play for 1 two hour stretch every week, you'd be suprised. Think of all the pro players from CS that are 'famous' among the gaming community for being so good, and consider how much time a week they spent playing/practising. There are people in my clan that played ns for 5 hour stretches - you almost need two hands to count them!
When a game is as good as NS, people want to play it for longer then 45 mins.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dan Forever+Nov 30 2002, 01:34 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dan Forever @ Nov 30 2002, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why can't the time limits and the match night be decided by the clans themselves?
And as for not wanting to play for 1 two hour stretch every week, you'd be suprised. Think of all the pro players from CS that are 'famous' among the gaming community for being so good, and consider how much time a week they spent playing/practising. There are people in my clan that played ns for 5 hour stretches - you almost need two hands to count them!
When a game is as good as NS, people want to play it for longer then 45 mins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pro players?
How many actual "pro players" are there? I bet far fewer than you think. This league is not only for "pro players" anyways. We're for all levels of play. I believe 45 minutes is alot longer than most people realize. Alot of things can happen in 45 minutes... including completely annihilating the other team as well as having fun.
I must remind everyone again that the 45 minute timelimit is only the starting point. If we find that it does not consistenly work throughout the first season, then we will look back over it. This is true for all of our rules. NS is a very new game, so if we find something is not working then we'll take another look at it.
I think 1 hour should be the timelimit personally.
1 Hour seems reasonable. Not too short, not too long.
Doesn't matter to me anyway, CAL only really cater for americans if I remember correctly as they have all their server in the US.
I'll be playing in clanbase's and jolt's leages most likely.
You gotta remeber that about half of all the servers are not in the US. There are lots of British and German servers, and I've seen NS servers in Hong Kong, Singaport, Taiwan, Switzerland, Sweden, France, Germany, Korea South and North, Spain, Portugal, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, Norway, Holland, the Philippines, Japan, Hungary, Iceland, Finland, Denmark, Chile, Croatia, The Czech Republic, Austria, Brazil, Argentina, and Bulgaria.
These are just the net servers I can see in my game browser.
Wow just think Flay, all those ppl from all those countries playing your game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Must be a nice feeling eh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Good job dude <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
to get one to get better stuff and marines would have to becuase they have to be stopped.)
Or to get to a certain point of the map and make a certain amount of turrets.
I'd like to see NS changed so this drawn-out end gets cut. I love the early game as a LMG marine or a speedy skulk of DOOM!, I love the mid game with its Fades and Heavy's armed with what-have-you. I love how resource nodes change hands back and forth in the intense fighting. End game? eh... It just draws on.
From both sides I've seen marines last forever with no extra nodes. I've seen aliens last forever with 1 hive and a few remaining fades. The losing team gets trap'd in their base and all resources are pooring into the victor's pool. There is no way for the losing team to make a come back, yet given a few good players, can hold on for hours. This is probably the one thing I dislike about NS. I hope Flayra changes this in some magical way that only the dev of this kick **obscenity** mod could! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Until then I think a time limit on the games, with resources as the score, would be the best measure of the victor.
Yes, CAL does have some CS divisions (5 to be exact), but that's only out of 22 divisions. Less than 1/4 actually. Although I am not a fan of CS, your assessment of both it and Q3 DM (especially Q3 DM) are completely wrong. I'd like to see how well you do in either one of those games versus some of the top players (especially Q3 DM).
Like I was saying, though, CAL is not just for CS, although there are over 90,000 CS players at any one time (I guess that would explain 5 divisions). There is a league for BF1942, TFC, JKII, DoD (2 actually), SoF2 (2 here also), plus many more. IMO CAL is the best league out there, but then again I am a bit biased. However, just because you disagree with me on that does not mean you need to start throwing insults.
We're working very hard to bring the best NS league to the people, and we will do it.
And I really do not think you truely understand the differences between Gloom and Natural Selection. It is not a rip off. Gloom may have had an influence on the team, but no more than Aliens or Star Craft. Its like I read from a post somewhere else on this forum. Every game/movie/book now a days takes something from the works of art preceeding it, but that does not make it a rip off nor does it make those preceeding works of art original. It just means that when you are working with Sci-Fi storylines, practically everything has been done one way or another. There will be similarities between them all. Dont insult the developers and the rest of the NS team with such comments, its just pure fabrication.
In real world there rarely happend games that last longer than 60 minutes, but if they do, they are the funniest, so why to limit them?
I used to play Warcraft 2 on Kali and I was very involved in one league. We played many matches that passed the two hour mark, and we did it every night for months.
I don't really ahve a problem with the time limit, but it does make it seem like the rules of the game are being centered more on people with the short attention span more than on the core audience of NS.
where are you getting that figure?
if you're talking about gamespy stats...that includes ALL of halife and ALL it's mods. I'm talking HLDM, TFC, DOD, FLF, FA, CS, NS, and all the other mods.
Is Warcraft2 a team based game or is it 1 v 1? The comparison between regular RTS type games and NS will really not hold up that well for league play. NS is a melding of RTS & FPS games. It is highly dependent on organized teams. Attributes from both types of gameplay must be used for NS to be successfull in leagues. The (blasted!) timelimit is one such attribute from traditional FPS type games that must be used.
Find me an FPS game where this is no timelimit. There are specific objectives that must be met to be declared the winner, they just have to be met within the 45 minute timelimit (REMINDER: It is currently 45 minutes, but could be increased if needed IN THE FUTURE).
Currently CAL-NS has 69 teams that are elligible to play once we start. That equals at least 414 players. I can garuntee you the majority of 414 players would not be able to play for hours on end. Some of you may be able to, but 2/3 of those playing would not want to play for that long.
Don't get upset with me. Notice that I used the words "seem" and "I don't have a problem with the timelimit".
You are correct in saying that attributes from both RTS and FPS matches will be required to make this work. Again, I am speaking from my limited experience here, but the hardest of hardcore NS players seem to be into the stragety element of the game. These are the players who will be playing in the leagues, these are the players that won't mind a 2 hour match.
Again I will say that I don't think a time limit is that bad of an idea. There was even a thread elsewhere suggesting there be a time limit for normal public server play, And it sounded like a pretty good idea to me. I really need to get farmiliar with the CAL rules before I can discuss specifics.
Really, the bottom line here is, it is *your* decision to make, if people don't like the CAL rules they don't play in CAL. There will be room for more than one league for NS, I guess the rules you want to play with will be the deciding factor in which one you play in. =)
Oh yeah, Warcraft 2 is/was a team game. 1 on 1, 2 on 2, 3 on 3 or 4 on 4.
Right now I have the timelimit set at 45 minutes, a number that I think will encourage teams to attempt more aggressive game play styles, but that number is not set in stone and may actually be changed after the first season... but the only way to really get a feel for how certain settings work is to use them on a massive scale and for an extended period of time. So we're going to try 45 minutes to start out with. I can give you an almost 100% garuntee that I will not lower that timelimit, but there is a chance that I will increase it, but for the time being I think it'll work for well.
Amen. Play where you want. And if you don't choose to play there then don't complain about them.
<a href='http://www.worldogl.com/modpanel.php?modid=83' target='_blank'>http://www.worldogl.com/modpanel.php?modid=83</a>
Sigh.
And as for not wanting to play for 1 two hour stretch every week, you'd be suprised. Think of all the pro players from CS that are 'famous' among the gaming community for being so good, and consider how much time a week they spent playing/practising. There are people in my clan that played ns for 5 hour stretches - you almost need two hands to count them!
When a game is as good as NS, people want to play it for longer then 45 mins.
And as for not wanting to play for 1 two hour stretch every week, you'd be suprised. Think of all the pro players from CS that are 'famous' among the gaming community for being so good, and consider how much time a week they spent playing/practising. There are people in my clan that played ns for 5 hour stretches - you almost need two hands to count them!
When a game is as good as NS, people want to play it for longer then 45 mins.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pro players?
How many actual "pro players" are there? I bet far fewer than you think. This league is not only for "pro players" anyways. We're for all levels of play. I believe 45 minutes is alot longer than most people realize. Alot of things can happen in 45 minutes... including completely annihilating the other team as well as having fun.
I must remind everyone again that the 45 minute timelimit is only the starting point. If we find that it does not consistenly work throughout the first season, then we will look back over it. This is true for all of our rules. NS is a very new game, so if we find something is not working then we'll take another look at it.
1 Hour seems reasonable. Not too short, not too long.
Doesn't matter to me anyway, CAL only really cater for americans if I remember correctly as they have all their server in the US.
I'll be playing in clanbase's and jolt's leages most likely.
You gotta remeber that about half of all the servers are not in the US. There are lots of British and German servers, and I've seen NS servers in Hong Kong, Singaport, Taiwan, Switzerland, Sweden, France, Germany, Korea South and North, Spain, Portugal, South Africa, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, Norway, Holland, the Philippines, Japan, Hungary, Iceland, Finland, Denmark, Chile, Croatia, The Czech Republic, Austria, Brazil, Argentina, and Bulgaria.
These are just the net servers I can see in my game browser.
Wow just think Flay, all those ppl from all those countries playing your game <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Must be a nice feeling eh <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Good job dude <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Happy Hunting
Mark