NS2 Handgun ideas
afratnikov
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18931Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Does its role need to change? New upgraded pistol?</div>In NS1, marines always have a handgun(HG=pistol) which serves 2 purposes:
1) Most frequently, it's used to shoot at long range due to its perfect accuracy
2) It also adds a little extra damage when primary weapon runs empty
NS2 has the chance to expand use of handguns by changing the role of the current handgun, add alt fire, and create new HGs that fit unique roles.
<b>What should the role of the HG be in NS2?
What could its alternate-fire be?
What should the different choices of HGs be?</b>
Of course, there are also reasons to keep the HG exactly the way it is now: if you post a concise summary for keeping NS1 HG, i will put it here.
Try to stay on topic of NS2 HGs, maintain a friendly environment, and use constructive criticism to improve others' ideas.
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*When posting a complete idea for a HG, try to use a format similar NS1 pistol and add numbers, so it will be possible to make direct comparisons. If you want to comment on existing ideas, please be specific to which HG idea you refer.
Current HG suggestions:
1) NS1 Pistol:
Role: long-range sniping
Availability: get it free when spawned
Primary Fire: 100% accuracy; 10/clip; 20dmg; 5/sec
Secondary fire: scanner sweep (by Domining)
Pro: perfect accuracy. Great as counter to skulk's parasite. Can hit at long range or when a tiny part is exposed
Con: Small clip-size; requires very fast clicking to achieve max RoF
Balance/Other issues: it is very <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_gun#Advantages_of_handguns_versus_shoulder_weapons" target="_blank">unrealistic</a> for a HG to be the most accurate weapon; may be overpowered due to ability to kill a skulk in less than 2 sec no matter how far he is or what tiny part is exposed.
2) Machine pistol (by TommyVercetti)
Role: extra fire-power when reloading
Availability: Requires adv. armory and costs 5 res
Primary fire: like LMG but larger spread. (20/clip 10dmg; 10/sec)
Problem: NS1 pistol already has the same damage/sec and max damage output (200).
3) Magnum (by invader Zim)
Role: close-range heavy hitter
Primary Fire: very powerful, less accurate, and high recoil
Pro: at close range it will bring skulks down quickly and hurt other forms/building significantly
Con: weaker at mid-range and very weak at long range due to low accuracy and high recoil
alternate: bullets burn up and are useless at long range. Second mode adds slower fire with perfect accuracy. (<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=103420&view=findpost&p=1664453" target="_blank">by Domining</a>)
4) Glock-type (by CronoRay)
Just like NS1 pistol except: Primary fire doesn't have perfect accuracy, damage is slightly decreased, but clip size and RoF are increased. Secondary fire is a triple shot.
5) Sawed-off single barreled shotgun
Role:
Promary: 1/clip; accuracy and damage similar to SG
Secondary: Concussion launcher?
Pro: high damage
Con: just 1 bullet
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Other ideas:
Tracking bullet (alt-fire): works similar to parasite, but only one is allowed per spawn
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=103420&view=findpost&p=1664402" target="_blank">HG attachments</a>
EDIT: i will add new ideas. Please let me know if you think i should change something.
1) Most frequently, it's used to shoot at long range due to its perfect accuracy
2) It also adds a little extra damage when primary weapon runs empty
NS2 has the chance to expand use of handguns by changing the role of the current handgun, add alt fire, and create new HGs that fit unique roles.
<b>What should the role of the HG be in NS2?
What could its alternate-fire be?
What should the different choices of HGs be?</b>
Of course, there are also reasons to keep the HG exactly the way it is now: if you post a concise summary for keeping NS1 HG, i will put it here.
Try to stay on topic of NS2 HGs, maintain a friendly environment, and use constructive criticism to improve others' ideas.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*When posting a complete idea for a HG, try to use a format similar NS1 pistol and add numbers, so it will be possible to make direct comparisons. If you want to comment on existing ideas, please be specific to which HG idea you refer.
Current HG suggestions:
1) NS1 Pistol:
Role: long-range sniping
Availability: get it free when spawned
Primary Fire: 100% accuracy; 10/clip; 20dmg; 5/sec
Secondary fire: scanner sweep (by Domining)
Pro: perfect accuracy. Great as counter to skulk's parasite. Can hit at long range or when a tiny part is exposed
Con: Small clip-size; requires very fast clicking to achieve max RoF
Balance/Other issues: it is very <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_gun#Advantages_of_handguns_versus_shoulder_weapons" target="_blank">unrealistic</a> for a HG to be the most accurate weapon; may be overpowered due to ability to kill a skulk in less than 2 sec no matter how far he is or what tiny part is exposed.
2) Machine pistol (by TommyVercetti)
Role: extra fire-power when reloading
Availability: Requires adv. armory and costs 5 res
Primary fire: like LMG but larger spread. (20/clip 10dmg; 10/sec)
Problem: NS1 pistol already has the same damage/sec and max damage output (200).
3) Magnum (by invader Zim)
Role: close-range heavy hitter
Primary Fire: very powerful, less accurate, and high recoil
Pro: at close range it will bring skulks down quickly and hurt other forms/building significantly
Con: weaker at mid-range and very weak at long range due to low accuracy and high recoil
alternate: bullets burn up and are useless at long range. Second mode adds slower fire with perfect accuracy. (<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=103420&view=findpost&p=1664453" target="_blank">by Domining</a>)
4) Glock-type (by CronoRay)
Just like NS1 pistol except: Primary fire doesn't have perfect accuracy, damage is slightly decreased, but clip size and RoF are increased. Secondary fire is a triple shot.
5) Sawed-off single barreled shotgun
Role:
Promary: 1/clip; accuracy and damage similar to SG
Secondary: Concussion launcher?
Pro: high damage
Con: just 1 bullet
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other ideas:
Tracking bullet (alt-fire): works similar to parasite, but only one is allowed per spawn
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=103420&view=findpost&p=1664402" target="_blank">HG attachments</a>
EDIT: i will add new ideas. Please let me know if you think i should change something.
Comments
one possiblity would be a more magnum style hand gun. very power, less accurate, and high recoile.
I guess you could already argue the current hang gun is a bit to powerful but if u toned it down id probs use about once in a ten minute game. Also when you have a gl u depend on your HG alittle more.
I think its diffcult to define the handgun before all the other weapons are nailed down. Because being the secondary weapon it has to work and balance with them. Its power use, accuracy all have to be relative to the primary weapons
I think there should be a machine pistol in NS2 that costs about 5 res and has a 20 round magazine, requiring an advanced armory. It would do the same damage as LMG and have the same firing speed, but would be far less accurate. Just a little something extra to protect your heavies when they are reloading their HMGs.
Pistol Sniping is just a really annoying game mechanic, people who started making pistol scripts or using their mousewheel, etc fire all 10 shots almost instantly and having every bullet land in the exact same place is rediculous, especially for a pistol.
The NS1 Pistol has always felt really small, like one of those star trek laser things, and never really felt like a pistol to me. And making the bullets spread a little would be nice for when skulks are in our faces, and would at least reduce the rediculous skulk sniping.
Pistol Sniping is just a really annoying game mechanic, people who started making pistol scripts or using their mousewheel, etc fire all 10 shots almost instantly and having every bullet land in the exact same place is rediculous, especially for a pistol.
The NS1 Pistol has always felt really small, like one of those star trek laser things, and never really felt like a pistol to me. And making the bullets spread a little would be nice for when skulks are in our faces, and would at least reduce the rediculous skulk sniping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly. i think the rate of fire and dammage for the pistol is fine, but the accuracy is just plain retarded. in real life the shorter barrel of a pistol will never be more accurate than an smg or HMG, and i dont think even nanites can make this plausable in NS. and 100% accuracy for all 10 shots in quick succession is stupid. due to recoil they should be spread out a bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1663945:date=Dec 14 2007, 06:49 AM:name=invader Zim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(invader Zim @ Dec 14 2007, 06:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663945"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->one possiblity would be a more magnum style hand gun. very power, less accurate, and high recoile.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking the exact same thing - it would complement the LMG very well, adding power in close quarters.
I think the role of the HG should be: supplement the primary weapon.
The current HG would be great with a shotgun or GL, while a magnum-style gun could help marines with LMGs and HMGs.
What do you think? Also, what would be a cool alternate fire for the HG?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it should be changed, very frustrating to be sniped out because 1/32nd of your hit box is peeking out a corner or in between pipes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
O you mean if a skulk is just chilling in a vent parasiting marines from half a map away, he should be invincible?
I'd be very happy if the pistol was kept as it is right now.
O you mean if a skulk is just chilling in a vent parasiting marines from half a map away, he should be invincible?
I'd be very happy if the pistol was kept as it is right now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keeping the current HG is one solution. It's role could continue to be: long-range sniper weapon to counter hiding skulk who attempt to parasite.
Marines need a tool dealing with skulks at long ranges, but i think another weapon should do that job. The LMG, for example, could be the best long-range weapon and could finally make use of its scope (when scoped, nearly perfect accuracy but slower RoF).
And I don't believe that since a skulk can hide in a vent and parasite, marines should be able to have a weapon with 0 recoil 100% accuracy, and an incredible rate of fire ( I hope other people realize how rediculous this statement is ). In addition to the pistol, marines also recieve grenades for that very problem.
As for the lack of recoil, well, there are already plenty of weapons today that use firing mechanisms or other devices that reduce recoil to negligible levels. Just look at the AA-12, Ultimax 100, AEK-971, or AK-107, just for starters. Though I do believe the pistol's firing animation should be changed to reflect its lack of recoil. It makes no sense to show it bucking out of control when it's really not recoiling at all.
If you still find it hard to believe the pistol's accuracy, just replace your pistol model with a semi-automatic rifle and suddenly the accuracy is plausible.
I don't see any gameplay problems with the pistol as it is now. Aliens _should_ fear marines at long distances. Careless aliens who expose themselves for more than a split second to parasite people deserve to get ventilated by a marine who has +attack bound to the mousewheel. It happened to me about 3 times. Then I learned my lesson.
Yes because marines know you're going to come out of that vent to parasite them am I right? If that happens, I'm pretty sure thats grounds for wall hack accusation - unless motion's researched. If you peek around a corner for a second, nobody (and I mean nobody) is going to respond fast enough to put all of those bullets into you from half a map away. However, if you do it again, while the marine has his crosshairs trained at your vent - you deserve it. This is nothing you can't avoid as an alien. Just parasite out of a different doorway, or try to get multiple parasites out of your one try and then go set up for an ambush.
If motion tracking is up however, that becomes a problem for skulks. But there are many problems associated with MT. Thank god it costs 35 res!
Edit: It only becomes a nuisance in competitive play when marines automatically pre-aim their crosshairs where skulks are going to set up parasiting shop and do lots of damage instantly. But again, this isn't a big deal at all.
If you look at the marine side, its their only actual counter to parasite, removing it would be a terrible idea.
Domining, c0ke, and TommyVercetti - you all bring an important point: marines need an accurate, long-range weapon to counter skulk's parasite and to have an advantage in large, open areas. I don't dispute that. My gripe is that the pistol is NOT the right weapon to be the best long-range weapon. It did it's job admirably in NS1, but NS2 has a chance to change the HG and other weapons to deal with the problems.
And the problems are:
- From realism standpoint, a rapid-firing pistol as the most accurate weapon makes no sense and it will confuse new players . Gameplay > realism, but in this case another weapon could easily fill role of long-range accurate weapon
- A secondary weapon's role is as back-up or to make up for primary weapon's deficiency - it should not be better in any single area than all primary weapons. (in CS, D-Eagle is an accurate and high-damage pistol, but it is worse than AK-47 or AWP. The duel-elites have high RoF, but are slower than P90 and Uzi. In CS, and all other FPSs (i know of), secondary weapons never outshine primary weapons)
I hope what i'm trying to say makes sense to you. Yes, TommyVercetti, "Aliens <u>should </u>fear marines at long distances," but not because of the pistol.
Yes, Domining and c0ke, there needs to be a counter to parasite, but the pistol doesn't seem like the ideal choice. I don't mind having a high-accuracy pistol, as long as it's weaker than the best primary long-range weapon.
Let me rephrase that:
Marines need an extremely accurate <i>starting</i> weapon to counter <i>starting</i> alien's parasite ability. The LMG was pinpoint accurate at some point, but a spray cone was added as a crutch for new players. - You do fire it from the hip after all. The pistol still needs to feel like a sidearm, but fill the niche of a long range weapon. Just as it is right now!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the problems are:
- From realism standpoint, a rapid-firing pistol as the most accurate weapon makes no sense and it will confuse new players . Gameplay > realism, but in this case another weapon could easily fill role of long-range accurate weapon<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would that other weapon be a basic sidearm every marine starts with? Would it be a sidearm?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- A secondary weapon's role is as back-up or to make up for primary weapon's deficiency - it should not be better in any single area than all primary weapons. (in CS, D-Eagle is an accurate and high-damage pistol, but it is worse than AK-47 or AWP. The duel-elites have high RoF, but are slower than P90 and Uzi. In CS, and all other FPSs (i know of), secondary weapons never outshine primary weapons)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, yes the pistol currently fills in the primary weapon's only deficiency and its a very sexy combo.
Second of all, don't bring up counter strike as an example for this game. Better yet, don't bring up any other game as an example of a feature because NS has nothing in common with any of them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hope what i'm trying to say makes sense to you. Yes, TommyVercetti, "Aliens <u>should </u>fear marines at long distances," but not because of the pistol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And why not? I haven't seen a good case against it aside from 'it doesn't look right' because that's an opinion I don't share.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, Domining and c0ke, there needs to be a counter to parasite, but the pistol doesn't seem like the ideal choice. I don't mind having a high-accuracy pistol, as long as it's weaker than the best primary long-range weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is weaker.
LMG: Rate of Fire 10 rounds/sec clip cap: 50 rounds
Pistol: Rate of Fire 5 rounds/sec clip cap: 10 rounds
50x10 = 500
10x20 = 200
It puts out the exact same amount of damage, but deals a total of 300 damage less/clip. The LMG's output of damage/min is greater.
What would you suggest as a secondary weapon? Everything I could think of I instantly shoot down because there already is something that fills its niche and makes it worthless.
A magnum revolver? Not like a shotgun at all huh?
A sub machine gun? Don't you already have a machine gun for a primary weapon?
Stun gun? Overpowered
Next!
so if i had to chose between LMG and handgun, either or, for the first 3 minutes, it'd actually probably chose the handgun. and i dont think this is meant to be so, so either the lmg is too weak or the handgun too strong.
a solution could probably be adding some spread to the handgun, but also adding some kind of zoom/sniper mode that lowers your view-radius (and maybe lowers sens) but highers your accurarity. on this way you can chose to a) have the closerange pistol OR have the accurate pistole you need to sort skulks out on long distance
well and the pistoles skin could also be slightly diffrent, with a longer shaft, so it looks more accurate, but that honestly is not that important now
<!--quoteo(post=1664203:date=Dec 16 2007, 02:27 AM:name=c0ke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c0ke @ Dec 16 2007, 02:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you shouldnt measure the weapons effectivity only by looking at its damage. the LMG might do more total dmg, but within 1sec the handgun does more. so, especially in earlygamestate, the handgun is atleast equal to the LMG. and on highrange its undisputed better.
so if i had to chose between LMG and handgun, either or, for the first 3 minutes, it'd actually probably chose the handgun. and i dont think this is meant to be so, so either the lmg is too weak or the handgun too strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This argument is defeated by the fact that it is simply not possible to use the pistol as a primary weapon for that long, the clip is too small, and the max amount of ammo is very low.
yay! this is definately the best solution to the sniping problem, and one i was going to suggest. the LMG is a starting weapon with a longer barrel (and an unused scope!), if any gun in NS2 is going to do the sniping, its the LMG.
just make it so alt fire zooms in, maybe x2 zoom (the zoom time is the same as the time taken currently to switch to pistol), you hold alt fire to keep it scoped. while scoped, the primary fire becomes semi-automatic with extreme accuracy - exactly as how the current pistol works.
IMHO the pistol should be a short range, high powered, highly inaccurate, last resort kind of weapon, designed for close quarters combat. if a skulk is running at you and you run out of ammo or cant reload in time, you whip it out, and fire a few shots off and hope for the best. it should still have a clip with 10 rounds, with slightly more damage than an LMG bullet - because it uses higher callibre bullets.
i dont know what alt fure should be, the first logical thought would be a pistol-whip with the butt of the gun. a better idea would be to have it shoot a tracker that would embed into the alien's flesh, and show up as a flashing icon on that particular marine's visor - that way only the person that shot the tracker could see it and not the whole team - to differentiate it from parasite. and unlike parasite, the tracker only works within a certain radius to the marine before the signal is too faint to be detected. aliens can also have it removed by a gorge.
its just a suggestion, and open to discussion.
and please dont feed me that #@$% about nanites making the bullets accurate, if that was the case, why arent the nanites working with the LMG and HMG? why do some of my shotgun pellets miss and others hit? why doesnt my GL nade home in on the skulk's head? i'm so sick of people quoting nanites whenever a flaw in the game is mentioned. its even worse when someone creates vague idea, and fills in the gaps with their magic nanites... nanites is one technology that the marines use, not THE technology.
I don't know about you, but I find it easier to aim the LMG at skulks when they are trying to dodge your bullets than the pistol at close range. Although it is easier to pre-aim at corners diagonally and kill walker skulks with it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so if i had to chose between LMG and handgun, either or, for the first 3 minutes, it'd actually probably chose the handgun. and i dont think this is meant to be so, so either the lmg is too weak or the handgun too strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the handgun is so great then why do none of the very good players run around with it out? Surely they can put the pinpoint accuracy to better use?
<!--quoteo(post=1664207:date=Dec 16 2007, 04:43 AM:name=Akin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Akin @ Dec 16 2007, 04:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664207"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, I really think that this depends on what they do with the primary weapons. If they allow usage of the scope on the LMG for a lower fire rate and higher accuracy, then the pistol should be changed. As it is, most of the primary weapons have a rather large spread, such that having a secondary weapon with a small clip, high damage, quick fire, and pinpoint accuracy actually makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why have a scope for your secondary mode of fire on your lmg when you could use that secondary attack for something much cooler? Like a grenade launcher? We still need a pistol and any ideas you can come up with that don't include it being pin-point accurate fail because theres something there already that will make it 98% useless. I don't want a gun that's just there to increase your clip capacity or is there purely for panic mode, knife already fills that function.
<!--quoteo(post=1664217:date=Dec 16 2007, 05:51 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Dec 16 2007, 05:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yay! this is definately the best solution to the sniping problem, and one i was going to suggest. the LMG is a starting weapon with a longer barrel (and an unused scope!), if any gun in NS2 is going to do the sniping, its the LMG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS2 model will be significantly different.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just make it so alt fire zooms in, maybe x2 zoom (the zoom time is the same as the time taken currently to switch to pistol), you hold alt fire to keep it scoped. while scoped, the primary fire becomes semi-automatic with extreme accuracy - exactly as how the current pistol works.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Zooming in in ns? A game that tries to emphasize movement?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IMHO the pistol should be a short range, high powered, highly inaccurate, last resort kind of weapon, designed for close quarters combat. if a skulk is running at you and you run out of ammo or cant reload in time, you whip it out, and fire a few shots off and hope for the best. it should still have a clip with 10 rounds, with slightly more damage than an LMG bullet - because it uses higher callibre bullets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shotgun already fills the niche of the highly inaccurate close quarters weapons. The knife already fills the niche of a last resort panic weapon.
The pistol shouldn't be in this game to purely extend your lmg clip size.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i dont know what alt fure should be, the first logical thought would be a pistol-whip with the butt of the gun. a better idea would be to have it shoot a tracker that would embed into the alien's flesh, and show up as a flashing icon on that particular marine's visor - that way only the person that shot the tracker could see it and not the whole team - to differentiate it from parasite. and unlike parasite, the tracker only works within a certain radius to the marine before the signal is too faint to be detected. aliens can also have it removed by a gorge.
its just a suggestion, and open to discussion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd rather have an upgrade which lets you shoot a device which uncloaks all aliens in range!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and please dont feed me that #@$% about nanites making the bullets accurate, if that was the case, why arent the nanites working with the LMG and HMG?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because you shoot both from the hip.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why do some of my shotgun pellets miss and others hit?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because pellets spread. (The spread for the TSA shotgun is increased to help hit targets I guess, because the cone is pretty large when you compare them to any modern shotguns)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why doesnt my GL nade home in on the skulk's head?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because its not self propelled.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i'm so sick of people quoting nanites whenever a flaw in the game is mentioned. its even worse when someone creates vague idea, and fills in the gaps with their magic nanites... nanites is one technology that the marines use, not THE technology.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The story can be wrapped around gameplay, not the other way around. Sorry!
As long as the pistol improves game play, and doesn't ruin it. ( And the current one does affect gameplay in a negative way, and if you don't realize it, then you don't understand the game very well ).
Is this your 4 seasons of cal experience talking?
I'm pretty sure I understand the game fairly well and am fairly sure that the pistol is an awesome part of gameplay which most certainly doesn't affect anything in a bad way. Of course unless you're a terrible lerk just chilling in a vent, in which case: SAPRIZE
That is all.
Do you see good players walking around with their pistols the whole game?
I thought not.
<!--quoteo(post=1664284:date=Dec 16 2007, 05:23 PM:name=Wyattx3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wyattx3 @ Dec 16 2007, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664284"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As long as the pistol improves game play, and doesn't ruin it. ( And the current one does affect gameplay in a negative way, and <b>if you don't realize it, then you don't understand the game very well</b> ).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I let out a big AHURHURHUR
<!--quoteo(post=1664196:date=Dec 16 2007, 01:27 AM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 16 2007, 01:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664196"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marines need an extremely accurate <i>starting</i> weapon to counter <i>starting</i> alien's parasite ability. The LMG was pinpoint accurate at some point, but a spray cone was added as a crutch for new players. - You do fire it from the hip after all. The pistol still needs to feel like a sidearm, but fill the niche of a long range weapon. Just as it is right now!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, what is your opinion on having the LMG fill the niche of a long range weapon?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Second of all, don't bring up counter strike as an example for this game. Better yet, don't bring up any other game as an example of a feature because NS has nothing in common with any of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? Spawning with a rifle, pistol, and knife isn't like CS at all! Every weapon is highly unique: there has never been any shotguns, fast firing mini-guns or grenage launchers in other FPSs. Marine weapons in NS are rewriting the FPS formula!!! /sarcasm off
NS is unique in many, many ways, but it's marine weapons were inspired by FPSs before it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I haven't seen a good case against it aside from 'it doesn't look right' because that's an opinion I don't share.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please read wikipedia on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_gun#Advantages_of_handguns_versus_shoulder_weapons" target="_blank">handguns</a>. The NS1 HG is inconsistent with the role of today's real handguns AND the role of handguns in video games. True: realism<gameplay, but why alienate new players, if there were a way not to?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It puts out the exact same amount of damage, but deals a total of 300 damage less/clip. The LMG's output of damage/min is greater.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is assuming all bullets hit. Well, at long range not all LMG bullets will hit but ALL pistol bullets will. With perfect aim, at mid-range only few LMG bullets will miss due to cone, but in the largest distances or when the skulk is only partially visible, most bullets will miss.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Would that other weapon be a basic sidearm every marine starts with? Would it be a sidearm?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, i think a sidearm should not have the role of a sniper rifle - do you? That other weapon marines start with could be the LMG. In my opinion, a side arm should be a back-up weapon or able to make up for primary weapon's deficiency. Read my earlier post:
<!--quoteo(post=1664079:date=Dec 15 2007, 07:35 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Dec 15 2007, 07:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664079"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glad to hear that all of you share my concerns about the HG. Any ideas on how to fix it?
I was thinking the exact same thing - it would complement the LMG very well, adding power in close quarters.
I think the role of the HG should be: supplement the primary weapon.
The current HG would be great with a shotgun or GL, while a magnum-style gun could help marines with LMGs and HMGs.
What do you think? Also, what would be a cool alternate fire for the HG?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So far I have added absolutely nothing new to the list of ideas. Hopefully though, it will swing discussion into the right direction.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What would you suggest as a secondary weapon? Everything I could think of I instantly shoot down because there already is something that fills its niche and makes it worthless.
A magnum revolver? Not like a shotgun at all huh?
A sub machine gun? Don't you already have a machine gun for a primary weapon?
Stun gun? Overpowered<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
magnum revolver - yes like a shotgun, but weaker. It would also be cheaper and available to players who have a long-ranged primary weapon
A sub machine gun - it could greatly improve a marine's fire potential, but probably at a higher cost.
Stun gun - i don't know the exact mechanic it would use, but anything could be adjusted to make less powerful. The main question is: will it improve gameplay?
That's what i'd like everyone to do: throw out an idea in here and then they can be discussed constructively.