Nah, Buzzou understood my idea the first time. I was thinking the marine could use it to ambush aliens if he has motion tracking. Imagine being a skulk at the end of the intimidation corridor on ns_nothing, when suddenly a marine pops out of thin air in front of you and shoots you in the face.
I just thought it should give marines a sort of nerfed blink ability so that they have some control over the phase suit, not just the commander. It would kind of suck if you could only use your jetpack when the commander activated it, or if your heavy armor didn't protect you without the commander watching over you. The commander could still teleport them through walls and such, so they could get much closer to the hive/siege spot but not teleport directly outside it or in it.
I enjoy this idea, but I dislike the phase suit being used for anything other than scouting. It should be a trade-off instead of purchasing a heavy weapon because the mechanics could postentially ruin gameplay, particularly if two or three people can jump in and tear up the entire opposing squad.
<!--quoteo(post=1662851:date=Dec 4 2007, 02:55 PM:name=NEX9)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NEX9 @ Dec 4 2007, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1662851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for the fade useing this technology, NO WAY, fades get portal guns, marines cant see the portals but fades can drop two portals at any given time go in one and out the other vice vercer, perhaps drop one portal then let it sit go around a few courners sort of like a recall, but droping portals on the move would be bound to line of sight projectile fireing. that or give the gorge this ability but dumb it down make it like a freebie maintinace thing to asist with building or helping out other kharaa, as really the way blink is now is cool but could use some visual touch ups and its old speed back. blink also doesnt need to be throw back into the stone age and made useless by makeing one nasuated or getting them killed as your FPS view zoomes out too a 3d top down view so you can then get skatered and fine were you want to teleport to next, all while in the heat of battle, how does yoru fade stear while your picking a new location?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that the fades get the portal gun is only a suggest, more not and its not stone age when you see a map (what is nasuated?) i think he mean that as a secondary or as 4. hive ability (3D map zoom )
but when marines have phase suits what have aliens?
when a comm teleport 5 phase guys whit hmgs two corrner away from your hive what is the counter?
i dont mean the nerf i mean the counter , what have aliens to move over the hole map in 10 seconds?
We havn't laid out anything too specific in this thread. But there have been ideas.
What if the marines all lost their armor on phase? And if the act of phasing took a full 5 seconds of vulnerability on either side? and was really loud? And each phase suit cost 20 res?
Five marines with phase suits and HMGs would alone cost 175 res. Add in some welders (since they lost their armor) and you're almost at 200 res, not even counting the cost of the tech. Plus, the marines would be very vulnerable for the first couple seconds, and aliens will get extra warning of the phasing that occurring, from the sound.
Or you could make it so marines can't carry anything but a pistol when they have the suit on. Or just an lmg/sg, etc. You could do a lot of things to balance out this tech, and I definitely think its a tech worth balancing out.
Hah, cool bonus idea. I dont know about 'random' though. Maybe it could be similar to the old Fade blink? I'd picture it as this: the player looks at the ground and alt-fires, then sees a marker placed there. As long as he stays in range, if he click the other button, he teleports there. Can't do it too much, but it would be cool and fun for short-range combat. Also for gaining access to difficult areas.
<!--quoteo(post=1667331:date=Jan 13 2008, 05:40 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jan 13 2008, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667331"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hah, cool bonus idea. I dont know about 'random' though. Maybe it could be similar to the old Fade blink? I'd picture it as this: the player looks at the ground and alt-fires, then sees a marker placed there. As long as he stays in range, if he click the other button, he teleports there. Can't do it too much, but it would be cool and fun for short-range combat. Also for gaining access to difficult areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've been thinking the phase suit was way over powered or too much risk at high cost till now. Make the phase suit only do this, and trust me, the ability to retreat fast putting distance between you and an enemy is very powerful. This I believe plays way more with how a marine uses defenses and ranged combat to get the upper hand, as opposed to the speed and melee power of the kharaa. Still have it be a high tech so it comes in on the later game, but this could be a very fun way to play if you were on a well coordinated team, even though you would have less armor. Possibly use a marine with the armor like bait? Good chance it could work, better than a marine's chances baiting without it.
hmm, i didn't like the idea of the phase suit at first. seems a bit too powerful. also, i think you <b>should</b> still be able to phase into DI areas, but the alien team should receive a notice, and/or the 'energy' required would be greater.
the phase suit seems quite.. powerful. perhaps too much so, i think more than a tweaking of numbers (charging, energy, stasis, disorientation etc.) and such, you should (as someone suggested) give the alien team something good too. a counter. (imo, counter =/= nerf.)
the "phase suit" i'm talking about up to this point is the 'commander-controlled' long-distance phase suit, the original idea.
more recently surfaced is another idea - the short-range teleporting suit, I don't like it at all. that's way too much like a fade. (or rather, how a fade should be)
<!--quoteo(post=1667483:date=Jan 15 2008, 10:18 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 15 2008, 10:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->more recently surfaced is another idea - the short-range teleporting suit, I don't like it at all. that's way too much like a fade. (or rather, how a fade should be)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i agree 100%. i thought the long range suit sounded amazing - definately the best idea to come out of the I&S forum for ages, hence why i went nuts thinking of intricate ideas on how it could work, and how it could be nerfed.
i dont agree that there should be an alien class or ability to nerf it, i think that any nerfing should be inbuilt into the actual marine technology when they develop/playtest it (if they do). aliens will still have features to counteract phase-suits, eg their faster speed, movement chambers, hive teleport, or the new tubes idea they mentioned in a previous podcast....
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1667487:date=Jan 15 2008, 05:46 AM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Jan 15 2008, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i agree 100%. i thought the long range suit sounded amazing - definately the best idea to come out of the I&S forum for ages, hence why i went nuts thinking of intricate ideas on how it could work, and how it could be nerfed.
i dont agree that there should be an alien class or ability to nerf it, i think that any nerfing should be inbuilt into the actual marine technology when they develop/playtest it (if they do). aliens will still have features to counteract phase-suits, eg their faster speed, movement chambers, hive teleport, or the new tubes idea they mentioned in a previous podcast....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is my thinking as well. Comm controlled phasing, not marine controlled blinking.
You can't tell me that wouldn't be fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1667593:date=Jan 15 2008, 11:42 PM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Jan 15 2008, 11:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667593"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't tell me that wouldn't be fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I'm saying it's fun to do as a fade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I guess that's a good point if they make fades back to what they were a long time ago. If they're just planning on keeping blink as is, I think it wouldn't water down the teams' differences too badly though.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1667721:date=Jan 18 2008, 12:12 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 18 2008, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If there's gonna be a short-range teleporting ability for ANY unit in the game, it would <b>have</b> to be for the fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i thought the fade is getting a portal gun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
First of all, great idea, however it is implemented.
Comments on the various ideas presented: If it is comm controlled: How about only being able to teleport phase suit marines to other phase suit marines. That way it would be like an advanced mobile phase gate.
If it is marine controlled: Yes, a long delay "old blink" would be cool. There could be a warpy space effect on the wall where you fire it and after 5 seconds you teleport there. Maybe you could switch weapons and shoot stuff before the phase occurs. Of course aliens could ready themselves to chomp you there as well. Kind of like the nemesis of the movie "Chronicles of Rid######". Also you could get to places jetpacks can, or bypass a wall of lame. It would be a tactical move too because you could anticipate when aliens would close the distance and you would teleport right as they get in melee range. Maybe there would be a glowy thing that moves between where you were and where you're going, so it isn't like blink-blink where'd he go? The mobility would be enough, if you disappear with it, it would be overpowered for sure. Also, it could be ammo-based. OOOh and imagine this, being your own bait...by timing it to phase you back right as you jump out through a doorway.
One thing I don't like about NS1 is that the good players would get the best stuff because it is decremental to teamwork. If there were a teleporting ability I think it should affect everyone(indiscriminately) within range of something.
Ok I have read the first page... TONS!!! of GREAT ideas. Now I throw in my 2 cents for balancing this new armor:
To limit this and preventing overpowering the rines, I say they can only phase into an area covered by a Obs. Say any where an alien would be uncloaked is where a rine could phase jump in. So a rine would have to make it into hive (or where ever else you want to jump guys) on foot to place an obs in the hive before the rine team could be jump in.
After they jump in they are "ghosts" they cant see/move/shoot/take damage. After that they can shoot and move with no loss of armor/HP.
When they want to get out of there and go back to base (would send them to the beacon location) they can hit there escape button and leave the battle (after a 1 min cool down from jump in). BUT it takes another 10 seconds to engage! So no jumping out a 2hp and leaving the alien without a kill.
Now I know I have ideas from other people and i didn't quote them on it and I am sorry... I am lazy and I know it.
Now I like the idea of jumping using up Obs power now with my idea of having to jump into an obs area of effect I don't know which obs should spend the power... *thinks* ok here: They both use power... now some one was saying 7-8 jumps grand total.... now this sounds like a good plan!! so say you can only jump 8 people from base to Hive room 1.. but you can also jump 8 people from Double to hive room 2, But no more can jump into Hive 1.
Also I like the idea some one else brought up about the drop location being variable. Was like 10-20 meters off... Damn good idea! But if you jump in a team they should still be close together, and if you drop them in a hall they should spawn in that hall, not the one next to it.
Now thinking about my idea of the obs (sorry this is the way I think and type.. don't like to delete what I already said).
Now unless the price of obs is lower in NS2 the obs idea was bad. Now instead say you can only jump from within the affected area of an obs. But instead of only jumping to an obs you can only jump to a structure say within 10 meters. So that will limit the power of these units. Say you only have res to drop a TF then you just jump in the reserves and away you go!
Well that is more then 2 cents but there ya go anyway. enjoy!
<!--quoteo(post=1683545:date=Jul 15 2008, 09:25 PM:name=Lt_Hendrickson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lt_Hendrickson @ Jul 15 2008, 09:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683545"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->rather than phasing anymore how bout only near another marine with a phase suit basically creating walking phase gates<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that would be so overpowered. all you would have to do is walk into a hive and then your entire team could port in and shoot it down.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that would be so overpowered. all you would have to do is walk into a hive and then your entire team could port in and shoot it down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But if they cost as much as HA, and gave no other benefits, it may not be overpowered. The res cost for the rush would be equivalent to an HA train and you'd only have light armors running around, easy to kill.
Of course the ideal strategy would be to have 3 marines with phase suits, 1 ninjas in, 2 phase suit to him, 3 of them build phase gate, heavies and jps phase in. But since it would be late game in order to have researched all the tech, it would still be appropriate.
Also, phase suits would be a death magnet if it is visibly apparent to the aliens which marines are wearing them, since they only have light armor.
(Not sure if its been said before but...) How about when the Phase suit is equipped the Marine has to wear a light-ish armor which could suggest the Phase suit is a experimental technology that only works with thin armor. Also make it fair by distorting HUD for say 10 seconds? (aftershock of sudden phase shift)
This is a better idea than most ideas I've seen on the forums. But I still think it would ruin the game. If you can teleport straight into hives, these suits will be incredibly overpowered. If you can't teleport onto invested ground, then they'll be less useful than jetpacks.
My main problem with this idea (though pretty good thinking) is that the jetpack already does most of the job of the phase suit (it transports you quickly). There's no reason to add another piece of equipment that doesn't change much. Jetpacks can already be used to rush places, then can already be used to chase low onos's, they can already be used to reach difficult to find locations.
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Just kind of jumping in this thread...
But I think the phase suit should only be accessible after upgrading the phase suit in the Protolab and Obs.
The obs would research a new structure that would allow Marines to phase in a certain radius where ever the structure is built. It would be researched like this:
Obs > Phasetech > *New phase structure upgrade* AA > Proto > Phase Suit (Can only be researched once the new phase structure is upgraded) Then the Commander would be able to place this structure in a certain area.
This would eliminate the "meat grinder" phase gate, but of course, these upgrades would have to be costly in res, and they would still take awhile to research since you have to have the AA and everything...
Comments
I just thought it should give marines a sort of nerfed blink ability so that they have some control over the phase suit, not just the commander. It would kind of suck if you could only use your jetpack when the commander activated it, or if your heavy armor didn't protect you without the commander watching over you. The commander could still teleport them through walls and such, so they could get much closer to the hive/siege spot but not teleport directly outside it or in it.
that the fades get the portal gun is only a suggest, more not
and its not stone age when you see a map (what is nasuated?)
i think he mean that as a secondary or as 4. hive ability (3D map zoom )
but when marines have phase suits
what have aliens?
when a comm teleport 5 phase guys whit hmgs
two corrner away from your hive
what is the counter?
i dont mean the nerf
i mean the counter , what have aliens to move over the hole map in 10 seconds?
We havn't laid out anything too specific in this thread. But there have been ideas.
What if the marines all lost their armor on phase? And if the act of phasing took a full 5 seconds of vulnerability on either side? and was really loud? And each phase suit cost 20 res?
Five marines with phase suits and HMGs would alone cost 175 res. Add in some welders (since they lost their armor) and you're almost at 200 res, not even counting the cost of the tech. Plus, the marines would be very vulnerable for the first couple seconds, and aliens will get extra warning of the phasing that occurring, from the sound.
Or you could make it so marines can't carry anything but a pistol when they have the suit on. Or just an lmg/sg, etc. You could do a lot of things to balance out this tech, and I definitely think its a tech worth balancing out.
+1 arcade style gameplay elements
I've been thinking the phase suit was way over powered or too much risk at high cost till now. Make the phase suit only do this, and trust me, the ability to retreat fast putting distance between you and an enemy is very powerful. This I believe plays way more with how a marine uses defenses and ranged combat to get the upper hand, as opposed to the speed and melee power of the kharaa. Still have it be a high tech so it comes in on the later game, but this could be a very fun way to play if you were on a well coordinated team, even though you would have less armor. Possibly use a marine with the armor like bait? Good chance it could work, better than a marine's chances baiting without it.
also, i think you <b>should</b> still be able to phase into DI areas, but the alien team should receive a notice, and/or the 'energy' required would be greater.
the phase suit seems quite.. powerful. perhaps too much so, i think more than a tweaking of numbers (charging, energy, stasis, disorientation etc.) and such, you should (as someone suggested) give the alien team something good too. a counter. (imo, counter =/= nerf.)
the "phase suit" i'm talking about up to this point is the 'commander-controlled' long-distance phase suit, the original idea.
more recently surfaced is another idea - the short-range teleporting suit,
I don't like it at all.
that's way too much like a fade. (or rather, how a fade should be)
I don't like it at all.
that's way too much like a fade. (or rather, how a fade should be)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree 100%. i thought the long range suit sounded amazing - definately the best idea to come out of the I&S forum for ages, hence why i went nuts thinking of intricate ideas on how it could work, and how it could be nerfed.
i dont agree that there should be an alien class or ability to nerf it, i think that any nerfing should be inbuilt into the actual marine technology when they develop/playtest it (if they do). aliens will still have features to counteract phase-suits, eg their faster speed, movement chambers, hive teleport, or the new tubes idea they mentioned in a previous podcast....
i dont agree that there should be an alien class or ability to nerf it, i think that any nerfing should be inbuilt into the actual marine technology when they develop/playtest it (if they do). aliens will still have features to counteract phase-suits, eg their faster speed, movement chambers, hive teleport, or the new tubes idea they mentioned in a previous podcast....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is my thinking as well. Comm controlled phasing, not marine controlled blinking.
marine controled is to strong
also this idea have a great cance to be implemented
but i stay to me loved jp <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
No, I'm saying it's fun to do as a fade. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
i thought the fade is getting a portal gun <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Comments on the various ideas presented:
If it is comm controlled:
How about only being able to teleport phase suit marines to other phase suit marines. That way it would be like an advanced mobile phase gate.
If it is marine controlled:
Yes, a long delay "old blink" would be cool. There could be a warpy space effect on the wall where you fire it and after 5 seconds you teleport there. Maybe you could switch weapons and shoot stuff before the phase occurs. Of course aliens could ready themselves to chomp you there as well. Kind of like the nemesis of the movie "Chronicles of Rid######". Also you could get to places jetpacks can, or bypass a wall of lame. It would be a tactical move too because you could anticipate when aliens would close the distance and you would teleport right as they get in melee range. Maybe there would be a glowy thing that moves between where you were and where you're going, so it isn't like blink-blink where'd he go? The mobility would be enough, if you disappear with it, it would be overpowered for sure. Also, it could be ammo-based. OOOh and imagine this, being your own bait...by timing it to phase you back right as you jump out through a doorway.
To limit this and preventing overpowering the rines, I say they can only phase into an area covered by a Obs. Say any where an alien would be uncloaked is where a rine could phase jump in. So a rine would have to make it into hive (or where ever else you want to jump guys) on foot to place an obs in the hive before the rine team could be jump in.
After they jump in they are "ghosts" they cant see/move/shoot/take damage. After that they can shoot and move with no loss of armor/HP.
When they want to get out of there and go back to base (would send them to the beacon location) they can hit there escape button and leave the battle (after a 1 min cool down from jump in). BUT it takes another 10 seconds to engage! So no jumping out a 2hp and leaving the alien without a kill.
Now I know I have ideas from other people and i didn't quote them on it and I am sorry... I am lazy and I know it.
Now I like the idea of jumping using up Obs power now with my idea of having to jump into an obs area of effect I don't know which obs should spend the power... *thinks* ok here: They both use power... now some one was saying 7-8 jumps grand total.... now this sounds like a good plan!! so say you can only jump 8 people from base to Hive room 1.. but you can also jump 8 people from Double to hive room 2, But no more can jump into Hive 1.
Also I like the idea some one else brought up about the drop location being variable. Was like 10-20 meters off... Damn good idea! But if you jump in a team they should still be close together, and if you drop them in a hall they should spawn in that hall, not the one next to it.
Now thinking about my idea of the obs (sorry this is the way I think and type.. don't like to delete what I already said).
Now unless the price of obs is lower in NS2 the obs idea was bad. Now instead say you can only jump from within the affected area of an obs. But instead of only jumping to an obs you can only jump to a structure say within 10 meters. So that will limit the power of these units. Say you only have res to drop a TF then you just jump in the reserves and away you go!
Well that is more then 2 cents but there ya go anyway. enjoy!
-[tcc]`| Matt_BLah
and so i think leave it out ^^
that would be so overpowered. all you would have to do is walk into a hive and then your entire team could port in and shoot it down.
But if they cost as much as HA, and gave no other benefits, it may not be overpowered. The res cost for the rush would be equivalent to an HA train and you'd only have light armors running around, easy to kill.
Of course the ideal strategy would be to have 3 marines with phase suits, 1 ninjas in, 2 phase suit to him, 3 of them build phase gate, heavies and jps phase in. But since it would be late game in order to have researched all the tech, it would still be appropriate.
Also, phase suits would be a death magnet if it is visibly apparent to the aliens which marines are wearing them, since they only have light armor.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104547" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=104547</a>
My main problem with this idea (though pretty good thinking) is that the jetpack already does most of the job of the phase suit (it transports you quickly). There's no reason to add another piece of equipment that doesn't change much. Jetpacks can already be used to rush places, then can already be used to chase low onos's, they can already be used to reach difficult to find locations.
But I think the phase suit should only be accessible after upgrading the phase suit in the Protolab and Obs.
The obs would research a new structure that would allow Marines to phase in a certain radius where ever the structure is built. It would be researched like this:
Obs > Phasetech > *New phase structure upgrade*
AA > Proto > Phase Suit (Can only be researched once the new phase structure is upgraded)
Then the Commander would be able to place this structure in a certain area.
This would eliminate the "meat grinder" phase gate, but of course, these upgrades would have to be costly in res, and they would still take awhile to research since you have to have the AA and everything...