Making NS2 Territorial
Rathos
Join Date: 2007-12-28 Member: 63283Members
Join Date: 2007-12-28 Member: 63283Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Creating Neutral, Marine and Alien controlled areas.</div>This might have been suggested before, but here I go.
With dynamic infestation an "unofficial" definite, this opens up the possibility of territorial control of map sections. Each room/section of a given map can be given three states. Neutral/Contested, Marine, Alien.
<b>Alien Control:</b>
The infestation is the visual representation of an Alien controlled section. There is no accelerating this, it simply infests at its own rate provided there is a hive or commander (possible role for alien commander) nearby. This will only infest neutral rooms.
Infested rooms allow faster alien movement as they are on natural ground
Marines in infested rooms alert the alien commander to their presence
Allows the construction of advanced alien defensive structures such as traps, tunnels, etc.
Infested rooms are naturally darker as they block out power & light.
Infested areas can be purged by destroying a control structure, the nearby hive or (an alternative to the two) by torching the infestation out of the room using a welder/flamethrower. This will return the room to neutral status in a short period of time after the control structure/hive has been destroyed.
<b>Marine Control:</b>
Well lit and machine/power humming rooms are the representation of a Marine controlled section. Marines must take control of a neutral room manually by restoring power conduits, activating computer systems and repairing weld joints.
Restored rooms/sections are well lit, now they are supplied with power.
Resources in restored sections are gathered faster.
Power heavy structures can be placed and manufactured in these controlled areas.
Automated defensive objects that lied dormant in the space station/ship are now active, such as proximity alarms or defensive turrets, even force shields to block vents.
Marine controlled areas can be returned to neutral by destroying/severing power. This also disabled the high power requirement structures. The aliens will also need to "infest" the computer network which will return the room (after power has been cut) to neutral status after a short period of time.
<b>The pros:</b>
Builds teamwork, adds to the atmosphere, adds another level of game play, creates a secondary objective to the mundane "gather and annihilate" method of each map.
<b>The Cons:</b>
If unbalanced or overpowered, can create stalemate situations. Increases level of complexity for map makers.
Let me know what you think, and bump it up if you like it. Provided that the benefits of a controlled area are slight and supportive, and not overwhelming and godly, the feature could really add a whole new level of enjoyment to the game.
With dynamic infestation an "unofficial" definite, this opens up the possibility of territorial control of map sections. Each room/section of a given map can be given three states. Neutral/Contested, Marine, Alien.
<b>Alien Control:</b>
The infestation is the visual representation of an Alien controlled section. There is no accelerating this, it simply infests at its own rate provided there is a hive or commander (possible role for alien commander) nearby. This will only infest neutral rooms.
Infested rooms allow faster alien movement as they are on natural ground
Marines in infested rooms alert the alien commander to their presence
Allows the construction of advanced alien defensive structures such as traps, tunnels, etc.
Infested rooms are naturally darker as they block out power & light.
Infested areas can be purged by destroying a control structure, the nearby hive or (an alternative to the two) by torching the infestation out of the room using a welder/flamethrower. This will return the room to neutral status in a short period of time after the control structure/hive has been destroyed.
<b>Marine Control:</b>
Well lit and machine/power humming rooms are the representation of a Marine controlled section. Marines must take control of a neutral room manually by restoring power conduits, activating computer systems and repairing weld joints.
Restored rooms/sections are well lit, now they are supplied with power.
Resources in restored sections are gathered faster.
Power heavy structures can be placed and manufactured in these controlled areas.
Automated defensive objects that lied dormant in the space station/ship are now active, such as proximity alarms or defensive turrets, even force shields to block vents.
Marine controlled areas can be returned to neutral by destroying/severing power. This also disabled the high power requirement structures. The aliens will also need to "infest" the computer network which will return the room (after power has been cut) to neutral status after a short period of time.
<b>The pros:</b>
Builds teamwork, adds to the atmosphere, adds another level of game play, creates a secondary objective to the mundane "gather and annihilate" method of each map.
<b>The Cons:</b>
If unbalanced or overpowered, can create stalemate situations. Increases level of complexity for map makers.
Let me know what you think, and bump it up if you like it. Provided that the benefits of a controlled area are slight and supportive, and not overwhelming and godly, the feature could really add a whole new level of enjoyment to the game.
Comments
If the marines control an area, then the bigger lights come on, machines work, maybe they get small area bonuses like comms working [but sound scratchy in DI/infected areas], and some other stuff.
It not only adds to maps, but to how the teams play, how everything looks and feels. I pray this makes it into the game. It already sounds like the engine is going to be behind by the time the game is released, this would probably help alot!
I've always been under the impression all the Commander's powers derive from the nanites functioning properly. If the Infestation (Dynamic) takes over the areas the nanites used to control, should the Commander still be able to drop structures when the nanites are no longer there to build the structure? What about those meds?
And why do we assume that a Commander has instant control over a map? What the local map's programs don't have passwords or encryptions or firewalls? Why does a Commander instantly have access to doors? Its seems to me that NS1 gives the Commander the skeleton key and backdoors to all the nanite programs in the grid and loses out on new source of gameplay or as it says in your PROS: "Another level of gameplay"
I'm all for territorial advantages for both Kharaa, Marines, and the neutral previous inhabitants. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Just the thing is, I'm a bit iffy about the neutral areas, they seem... tedious, for marines. It seems to me like.. DI <b>automatically</b> does all the damage to the area it takes over and it becomes <i>alien territory</i>, then marines have to burn/weld away the DI to get it to <i>neutral territory</i>, then restore and repair the electronics to turn it into <i>marine territory</i> - and what are the advantages of even having <b>marine territory</b>?. Plus I think we could assume that lights and machines and applicances would have an auto-restore function in the future. (So it's more of an alien territory and neutral/marine territory (just two, not three) - which does nothing new for gameplay.)
<!--quoteo(post=1665564:date=Dec 29 2007, 02:11 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 29 2007, 02:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->why do we assume that a Commander has instant control over a map? What the local map's programs don't have passwords or encryptions or firewalls? Why does a Commander instantly have access to doors? Its seems to me that NS1 gives the Commander the skeleton key and backdoors to all the nanite programs in the grid<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
err, well aren't we fighting on TSA facilities and ships and colonies? you can assume that TSA Frontiersmen commanders would have the access codes and keys to the mainframe, and security facilities, etc. since the TSA likely don't want to hinder their commanders' missions in eliminating the kharaa.
...btw, what does TSA stand for again?
Id like a territory system but if its too ridgid it could turn ns in to a trench war fair game so its got to be a bit flexible, as in taking territory is a good way to win the game, but if nessesary you can take a risk and bypass it.
Infestation would (in my vision) be automatic, provided there was a hive/control spire nearby. However, while it is advantageous that this process is automatic, its disadvantage is that it cannot be accelerated. Whereas marines, the process is manual, but a section can be controlled much faster. Infestation could not overtake a marine controlled zone, due to the grid defenses (nanites destroying the infestation within the control zone or something).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- and what are the advantages of even having marine territory?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mentioned this in the first one, the advantages would be lighting, access to higher level structures, proximity sensors, "possibly" turrets.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->would building be impossible in territories controlled by the opposing team?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, not in the way that I was thinking. Having a controlled area simply allows access to higher power consumption structures (new ones, not just rehashing old structures into NS2). The old strategies would still be kept viable (Phase/siege infiltrations), or possibly, the phase gate can be built, but recharges teleport uses at a slower rate, due to the lack of available power.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Id like a territory system but if its too ridgid it could turn ns in to a trench war fair game so its got to be a bit flexible, as in taking territory is a good way to win the game, but if nessesary you can take a risk and bypass it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is where play testing comes in and my stressed urgency for not making controlled zones too powerful. Provided the benefits are slight and simply give an advantage (where in a normal situation a marine might be outnumbered, in his own territory can succeed, as opposed to one marine being able to hero bash the entire alien offense in his zone).
I also agree with your easy difficulty curve comment. Allowing a commander or player to concentrate on short term goals, like taking a sector, instead of only having the long term "destroy hive" goal, can help ease the entrance complexity to the game.
Just the thing is, I'm a bit iffy about the neutral areas, they seem... tedious, for marines. It seems to me like.. DI <b>automatically</b> does all the damage to the area it takes over and it becomes <i>alien territory</i>, then marines have to burn/weld away the DI to get it to <i>neutral territory</i>, then restore and repair the electronics to turn it into <i>marine territory</i> - and what are the advantages of even having <b>marine territory</b>?.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are the advantages? What are all the advantages a Commander aka "Guardian Angel" provide a grunt marine? And not just the old abilities either but any new ones we can can convince the Devs to try out as well. This provides the Kharaa with a counter the Marine Commander they never had before. Plus, it highlights some asymmetrical game play into territorial, how the different sides take and hold territory could be very different: Kharaa can take territory easily but lose it just as easily - Marines have a harder time taking territory but holding territory would be easier. Even how a match starts out on the sides could be different as day and night. Heck, I would like to see "fog of war" happen to the Commander as the infestation shut downs systems we always took for granted before.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus I think we could assume that lights and machines and applicances would have an auto-restore function in the future. (So it's more of an alien territory and neutral/marine territory (just two, not three) - which does nothing new for gameplay.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think we can assume that as well. But having a marine speed things up wouldn't be so bad, would it? So, you could have a scenario where you push past your re-supply lines to burn that damn infestation or you can whip out that handy dandy welder swiss army knife and Maguyver your team a way to re-supply and build and restore map functions sooner. Sorta like - Kharaa their own foggy spooky ambient lighting that helps them, contested territory where the lights flicker and screens show something like "Rebooting System", and the Marine territory where the lights are bright and the parts of the map function like they were meant to by the humans that built them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->err, well aren't we fighting on TSA facilities and ships and colonies? you can assume that TSA Frontiersmen commanders would have the access codes and keys to the mainframe, and security facilities, etc. since the TSA likely don't want to hinder their commanders' missions in eliminating the kharaa.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do know what happens when you assume right? The TSA may have permission to come in for some situations, and not others. What if the map where they are fighting happens to be a place that was kept secret from them, like a member state of the Frontier who happens to be experimenting on the Kharaa, only they get loose and the place is uncovered by the TSA during the galactic war with the Kharaa? Could this be why quarantine failed? Is it possible governments under the TSA's jurisdiction have been keeping secrets, under password encryption top secret protocol lock and key?
I see opportunity for new game play and stories in the Natural Selection mythos. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I sure hope we get to see some civilians and other human groups this time around too. Sure would be nice to rescue someone from the Kharaa who locked themselves in a vault or something... That was a thread in what seems like ages ago now.
This is what happens when I think about the Natural Selection stories, it really charges me up. I wish I could read novels about NS2 written by like RA Salvatore or Spider Robinson or Matt Reilly or ... Oh, here I go again, rambling, I get excited thinking of the possibilities in the NS2 mythos. I would really love to see it become an intellectual property that earns Unknown Worlds more money and myself more entertainment. There are novels, graphic novels, board games, card games, movies, and merchandise based on other games, why not one of our favourites, Natural Selection?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...btw, what does TSA stand for again?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trans System Authority
There is some interesting reading on TSA in this idea thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103228&st=20&start=20" target="_blank">Natural Selection Movie</a>
Just like the marnies have welders for opening and closing areas, there SHOULd be a hacking tool, kinda like what the marines in AVP games had. Maybe if they hack a computer, it opens an area where they can recieve free weapons or res or something. It also opens it up for the aliens, but you know what I mean.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are the advantages? What are all the advantages a Commander aka "Guardian Angel" provide a grunt marine? And not just the old abilities either but any new ones we can can convince the Devs to try out as well. This provides the Kharaa with a counter the Marine Commander they never had before. Plus, it highlights some asymmetrical game play into territorial, how the different sides take and hold territory could be very different: Kharaa can take territory easily but lose it just as easily - Marines have a harder time taking territory but holding territory would be easier. Even how a match starts out on the sides could be different as day and night. Heck, I would like to see "fog of war" happen to the Commander as the infestation shut downs systems we always took for granted before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so you'd overhaul the current NS commander system? You'd restrict the commander's influence to areas only the Marines control? So it becomes 'you walk into that infested area, sorry mate, you're on your own.' I really don't like that. Marines may just decide they won't move forward - or are they going to have to burn away infestation <b>as they move</b> forward? That's extremely tedious. They've already talked about alien canals where the commander would have no influence - which I think is reasonable. But your idea expands that, geographically, far too much imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But having a marine speed things up wouldn't be so bad, would it? So, you could have a scenario where you push past your re-supply lines to burn that damn infestation or you can whip out that handy dandy welder swiss army knife and Maguyver your team a way to re-supply and build and restore map functions sooner. Sorta like - Kharaa their own foggy spooky ambient lighting that helps them, contested territory where the lights flicker and screens show something like "Rebooting System", and the Marine territory where the lights are bright and the parts of the map function like they were meant to by the humans that built them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm saying it's too tedious for marines to do so. Things should auto-restore mere seconds after infestation has been cleared away. That eliminates the need, entirely, for marines to do manual repairs.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You do know what happens when you assume right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
excuse me, but earlier you said:
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think we can assume that as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And really, assumptions are a part of everyone's lives. Assumptions are a part of (particularly social) sciences. So yeah, logical assumptions <b>are</b> valid.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The TSA may have permission to come in for some situations, and not others. What if the map where they are fighting happens to be a place that was kept secret from them, like a member state of the Frontier who happens to be experimenting on the Kharaa, only they get loose and the place is uncovered by the TSA during the galactic war with the Kharaa? Could this be why quarantine failed? Is it possible governments under the TSA's jurisdiction have been keeping secrets, under password encryption top secret protocol lock and key?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's something like, you ask the doctor to give you a treatment for an illness - but you won't tell him the specifics of what happened (i'm thinking House) - he can't really, or may refuse to, do anything for you.
The TSA was armed to - scratch that. I wrote a better reply quoting from the mythos.
Just quoting from the fiction, took the relevant parts:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There seemed to be only a couple of options: declare a quarantine on the whole of the Arm, destroy anything that tried to come out, and call all the ships and stations and people in it a loss; or a protracted and expensive ship-by-ship, station-by-station campaign that looked as if it could not be won. Ever cost conscious, the corporations and governments favored the former. To the TSA, with its long history of standing up against these same institutions on human rights and expansionist issues, abandoning those people and the entire sector was intolerable. They mounted a detailed and lengthy proposal
Previous attempts to take back infested ships had, they said, been done "by the book" - as if it were a worker revolt, ship mutiny, or terrorist action. Combined with poor deployment and bureaucratic delays, Admiral Studaber went so far as to call these attempts "feeble and amateurish."
There is, they reasoned, no other organization that every government and corporation would allow on their ships, stations and outposts - and trust not to exploit such access. No other armed force whose soldiers are screened for fanaticism, racism or behavior-altering national bias.
Give us the budget, they said, and we will create a new force specifically created to deal with the alien threat, and others like it, wherever expansion pushes into new and uncharted space. "Call them the Frontiersmen," the proposal concludes, "standing on the edge of the unknown, between all of humanity and whatever would threaten it."
With surprising and somewhat suspicious speed, the proposal passed through the Trans-System Council and into effect. Money was diverted, hardware and enlistment restrictions abolished, and seemingly overnight, the Frontiersmen were born.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Key points here are:
1. Corporations and governments are ever cost-conscious - they've made an investment, and to undermine that effort would not be cost-effective, and they would be vilified, they'd become the "Public Enemy".
2. They can trust the TSA - not to exploit their access codes and electronic keys and such - and so they would willingly give access to their privately-owned facilities. (and for the situation where there's been secret experimenting on Kharaa, well, they're going to be <b>keeping</b> those under wraps, no doubt.)
3. Previous efforts were undermined by bureaucratic delays, and the TSA is not going to make those same mistakes.
4. Hardware and enlistment <b>restrictions</b> were abolished. This is suggestive that <i>all</i> restrictions were abolished. Marines would just simply not be restricted from access to TSA "members'" facilities.
The rest is just conjecture, but corporations and governments have just armed the TSA, they're not likely to try to rub them the wrong way by not cooperating and withholding access keys - and after all, the TSA had a long history of standing up against these governments and corporations. If they refused to cooperate fully, the TSA could well just refuse their request, or abandon their facility. There is also the suggestion that the TSA have a lot of (shadowy) influence in the higher-ups of the various governments and corporations, evident in the speed with which the frontiersmen were formed.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see opportunity for new game play and stories in the Natural Selection mythos. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This much is true, perhaps. And perhaps you could use parts of your idea to explain marines vs. marines gameplay. Rogue units of the Frontiersmen taking corporate paychecks - deployed to sieze a privately-owned facility from the TSA the moment the TSA clear the infestation (and likely pilot it to a secret location). And perhaps the prestige of the TSA Frontiersmen has dropped after several years of continuous fighting with no large gains - their influence waning, their cause no longer respected as it once was - rogue units cropping up in many systems, (because) their 'screening' no longer as thorough as it once was, or having to make concessions in the screening to get enough numbers.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I sure hope we get to see some civilians and other human groups this time around too. Sure would be nice to rescue someone from the Kharaa who locked themselves in a vault or something... That was a thread in what seems like ages ago now.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Think about it, this is several years on. Anyone that locked himself in a vault would be dead by now. Save the civilian rescue situations for mods. (Unless NS2 deals with a new outbreak of the Kharaa? where such a thing would be viable fiction-wise). It wouldn't be too bad - it'd be different from hostage rescue in that, the 'terrorists' would be out to -kill- the 'hostages', not hold them. People could have, as you said, locked themselves in the vault - or perhaps for colonies, in their very own prisons. And the goal of the marines would be to firstly clear and hold the rescue route, free the civilians, and lead them to safety while other marines provide covering fire. The goal of the aliens would be to eliminate all human life - I think perhaps the marines should have a "boost" the more civilians they save, and the more that are killed, the less 'favour' or '(public) support' they have/their mission has, and they lose the "boost" associated with it. I think I'll quote it and add it to my mods thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1665628:date=Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665628"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Trans System Authority
There is some interesting reading on TSA in this idea thread: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103228&st=20&start=20" target="_blank">Natural Selection Movie</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, thanks, i saw that thread just before i saw your reply. (the source for my lengthy explanation up there ^) though I only read the first couple of posts in full and skimmed through the rest, and read the last couple of posts in full.
..uh crap. we've seriously gone off-topic here.
Didn't say it has to be dystopia, just recognizing there is fun to be had in more action for the Commander, especially where territory is concerned.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so you'd overhaul the current NS commander system? You'd restrict the commander's influence to areas only the Marines control? So it becomes 'you walk into that infested area, sorry mate, you're on your own.' I really don't like that. Marines may just decide they won't move forward - or are they going to have to burn away infestation <b>as they move</b> forward? That's extremely tedious. They've already talked about alien canals where the commander would have no influence - which I think is reasonable. But your idea expands that, geographically, far too much imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not overhauling it, adding to its already existing formula. Have you played Zombie Master? When I played the zombie controller, it reminded me and inspired me with regards to the Commander getting some 'action' with map events.
Also, maybe there are more ways to clear infestation and get some nanite support than just flame throwers. Hmm, napalm / C4 bombs, nanite bombs, boosted signal strength, and portable generators.
Hopefully you can understand I am not looking a tedious "trench" warfare, more along the lines of giving marine and kharaa territory substance.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm saying it's too tedious for marines to do so. Things should auto-restore mere seconds after infestation has been cleared away. That eliminates the need, entirely, for marines to do manual repairs.
excuse me, but earlier you said:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't it depend on how its implemented that determines if the idea is tedious or not? And if it is tedious or not is also determined by the player, not all players finding building structures for the Commander or welding tedious.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And really, assumptions are a part of everyone's lives. Assumptions are a part of (particularly social) sciences. So yeah, logical assumptions <b>are</b> valid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I was trying to say I agreed with you about a proposed NS2 idea, where as back story is something I like seeing a bit of creative license with, hope that makes sense.
It's something like, you ask the doctor to give you a treatment for an illness - but you won't tell him the specifics of what happened (i'm thinking House) - he can't really, or may refuse to, do anything for you.
The TSA was armed to - scratch that. I wrote a better reply quoting from the mythos.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just quoting from the fiction, took the relevant parts:
Key points here are:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like you said, the next bit goes into some of the sci-fi story, so could be off topic, but I do think it helps give a 'believable' basis for stuff... So let me say, I think those are very good points, and I agree that the members of that support the TSA would want to hand over keys, but allow me to throw these tid bits in:
1) It has been said by Unknown Worlds, if NS1 was the first encounter, NS2 will be the war.
2) If - as the first point suggests - the confrontation has expanded, is it possible... A) The TSA's mandate may have expanded beyond its initial intent by the founding member states? B) The conflict could have spilled over into regions that aren't supporters of the TSA?
3) The pictures of spheres containing the Kharaa look a lot like the experiments I was referring to - as I hope they would, the idea is inspired by it: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/envconcept11_800x413.jpg" target="_blank">NS2 Concept Art</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->..uh crap. we've seriously gone off-topic here.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry about that, when I get a brain storm or stuck on an idea or both, I ramble and I spill in to other topics.
I like your take on the civilians. The civilians just are an extension for me on the idea of how the battle site functioned for humans before the TSA arrive and just how it gets broken down and turned into Kharaa paradise by the Dynamic Infestation. Science fiction backstory, purpose of the territory and its impact on the game play, and all that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Hope you don't get any hostile vibes from my posts, I have been rather enjoying your excellent threads, if that isn't obvious by now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
1) It has been said by Unknown Worlds, if NS1 was the first encounter, NS2 will be the war.
2) If - as the first point suggests - the confrontation has expanded, is it possible... A) The TSA's mandate may have expanded beyond its initial intent by the founding member states? B) The conflict could have spilled over into regions that aren't supporters of the TSA?
3) The pictures of spheres containing the Kharaa look a lot like the experiments I was referring to - as I hope they would, the idea is inspired by it: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/cache/thumbnails/envconcept11_800x413.jpg" target="_blank">NS2 Concept Art</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah, but it's also been said that each side has been studying the other side, so there's nothing really sinister or suggestive about that - that's a <b>TSA</b> research facility - actually, there are marines tending to that research facility, and the concept art was iirc, based on the idea that 'each side has been studying the other side' over the last few years.
To address 2A) the fiction suggests that the TSA has already gained a great amount of influence, which will likely only grow, which I pointed out earlier.
To address 2B) well, possibly, but the TSA (or rather the Trans System Council) is like the UN (plus super-corporations), everyone's represented there - and everyone believes that it is the TSA that is the most, no- the only, institution with the <b>ability</b> to counter the Kharaa threat (to humanity as a whole) - and member states' reliance on them will only grow as the scale of the conflict escalates. To choose to not cooperate with the TSA may be something akin to consigning yourself to death.
<!--quoteo(post=1665695:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:07 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665695"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like your take on the civilians. The civilians just are an extension for me on the idea of how the battle site functioned for humans before the TSA arrive and just how it gets broken down and turned into Kharaa paradise by the Dynamic Infestation. Science fiction backstory, purpose of the territory and its impact on the game play, and all that. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to see something morbid. I'd like a map or two to pre-load with piles of civilian (or maybe the previous frontiersmen team's) corpses, blood sp, the odd few body pieces lying around, infestation covering most of the map, and really bad lighting. That'd be up to the mapper though, i guess?
and about the territorial thing, well, i haven't really got much more to add to what i've already said, so, you know my stance.
<!--quoteo(post=1665695:date=Dec 30 2007, 04:07 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 30 2007, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665695"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hope you don't get any hostile vibes from my posts, I have been rather enjoying your excellent threads, if that isn't obvious by now. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nah of course not, I think you're one of the more level-headed people on these forums.
This idea reminds me of Company of Heroes, where you can visually see the dynamic changing of the battlefield on your minimap. It'd be nice to see that on the NS2 minimap; the alien's DI shown as a gradually spreading, red, highlighted area on the minimap.
NS1, Marines can "upgrade" their territory with Electrification and Kharaa don't have that for their resources. Both cost the same initial, some might even say the cost is higher because it requires a player to be vulnerable as the Gorge for 10 resources on top of the 15, where as a Commander is safe back in the Chair and a marine is a free spawn.
Then there is the static defenses in NS1, I am sure you are familiar with those.
Then NS2 throws Dynamic Infestation into the mix, Welding seems to be getting more play time, and we have been given indications that Flame Throwers are in as well: In what ways would this turn the already existing territory on its head? How much could a Dynamic system turn Static systems on their heads?
Think about it. NS2 is not NS1, so saying there is already territory in NS1 does not invalidate exploring ideas of what could be possible for the concept in NS2. Yes, I understand the argument "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but try to understand my argument "If it ain't built yet, don't toss the blue prints out". Even once something is built, you don't want to toss ideas in the trash, they could prove inspiration for something else down the road.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but the more res nodes you have, the more resources you get, that is, rather than individual addition/accumulation. eg. 1 res/s for 1 node, 3 res/s for 3 nodes -> 1 res/s for 1 node, 5 res/s for 3 nodes. It would make the activity (building, fighting) around the RTs more intense - there would be a greater need to: capture and hold nodes for your team; and destroy and deny them to the other team.
<!--quoteo(post=1665810:date=Dec 31 2007, 10:59 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 31 2007, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then NS2 throws Dynamic Infestation into the mix, Welding seems to be getting more play time, and we have been given indications that Flame Throwers are in as well: In what ways would this turn the already existing territory on its head? How much could a Dynamic system turn Static systems on their heads?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It definitely adds more variety of gameplay - not every match is going to be the same - and that's a good thing, it adds replayability. (but there is always the possibility that a team would use one or two of the same tried-and-true approaches to the matches - this isn't a concern strictly limited to this idea, but others too - but this is possibly a concern for mappers, to theorise approaches and counters, to force teams to play differently)
<!--quoteo(post=1665810:date=Dec 31 2007, 10:59 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 31 2007, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Think about it. NS2 is not NS1, so saying there is already territory in NS1 does not invalidate exploring ideas of what could be possible for the concept in NS2. Yes, I understand the argument "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" but try to understand my argument "If it ain't built yet, don't toss the blue prints out". Even once something is built, you don't want to toss ideas in the trash, they could prove inspiration for something else down the road.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
I found something on wikipedia about NS the other day that really stuck:
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Wikipedia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wikipedia)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game ends when one side has destroyed the other's ability to survive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"Survival of the Fittest" "Natural Selection"
The point is, f you have too much focus on territorial control (like in the BF series) it wouldn't be as much about the concept of survival of the fittest, the key underlying idea in the fiction and gameplay of Natural Selection.
Having said that though, I do like the idea of territorial control a lot, but let's try not make the focus on it -too- much - after all, we still need to kill the hive.
Agreed, sorry if it seemed like I was advocating doing away with a hive or command chair as a key to victory, but rather, think of the use of territory as different ways of being fit, in reference to 'survival of the fittest'. When I think of good game play, without fail it seems like I think of Paper-Rock-Scissors.
Paper beats Rock: The infestation is mobile and "wraps" up things fast, just like its life forms, speed is sweet.
Scissors beat Paper: The infestation is easy to remove though, pesky flame throwers!
Rock beats Scissors: Dang, this friggin' nanite grid needs to get fixed, through auto or speed up with manual.
The idea being, give each side a particular stength and weakness, in such a way that the game can be a attack, counter attack, counter counter attack, a very nice dynamic situation. Very replayable, as you say, each strategy being just as viable and destroyable as the other should the opposition make use of the counter.
There are other ways to introduce the PRS (Paper Rock Scissors), so as long as the heart of it is there, the situation should never be trench warfare and stalemate.
I imagine that those silly turret farms and walls of OCs in NS1's past would have a very hard time of things with DI and Nanite Grids around. Properly utilized gone too should the days of unsatisfactory games due to spawn camping. If something is truly Dynamic, it never stalemates, it only tries to utilize counters. Those who refuse to adapt to a situation become unfit for the situation and do not survive, to continue the vein of 'survival of the fittest' in the Natural Selection war between bio & techno, lifeform & tool, Kharaa & Marine...
Territory is the extending upon the idea of utilizing the enviroment, something one would be wise to look into if wanting to fit enough to survive.
The thing is, what I really have in mind should it be implemented well, would always result in one team or the other Dynamically breaking through to seek out the Hive or Command Chair, which all the powers of the DI or Nanite Grid reside in. So, game - set - match, should the key stone structures go down while we continue the struggle of PRS mechanics <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Mmm, time for some Behind Enemy Lines, I'm going for the Hive / CC kill! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
In CoH, territory is used to give a strategic/resource advantage to the team that controls that section of the map, but the option to take on the enemy base and destroy it still remains.
I think a similar "territory" structure would fit in well with NS2.
Resource Points in CoH can be upgraded with outposts that boost the ammount of resources and make the area harder to capture. <!--coloro:#AFEEEE--><span style="color:#AFEEEE"><!--/coloro-->NS2 res towers in captured territory could receive a similar bonus by providing more resources, or by protecting the area in some way. (ie. turrets/lighting)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
In CoH, you only get resources from points that are "connected" to your Base Territory. This makes it possible to attack behind enemy lines to cut off resource flow to the enemy. (Have you ever wondered how Res gets from the RT to the commander??) I don't know if it would be good to do territory like this in NS2, but it would provide some new "<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro-->Real Time Strategy<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->" like gameplay. <!--coloro:#AFEEEE--><span style="color:#AFEEEE"><!--/coloro-->Maybe RT's res production is greatly reduced if you do not control the territory or do not have the territories connected. Marines could choose to drop quickly and move on in a rushing strategy; or they could capture/fortify the "territory" and try to gain a resource/fortification advantage.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
A territory style of play would greatly improve the commanders RTS feel of the game and provide many more options for both teams players and commander. NS1 play is very similar with capping RT's, but "territories" would build on that and make things very interesting.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->I am all for "territories" in NS2, I just want it to be intuitive and not just like Day of Defeat or something.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<b>Here is a picture to illustrate what the territory map looks like in CoH.</b>
<img src="http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8416/mgroute1vl5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I haven't played Company of Heroes, but now I really want to just to play around with the territory. I have heard there are other fun things about CoH as well.
Thank you very much for that example EmpV.
With dynamic infestation an "unofficial" definite, this opens up the possibility of territorial control of map sections. Each room/section of a given map can be given three states. Neutral/Contested, Marine, Alien.
<b>Alien Control:</b>
The infestation is the visual representation of an Alien controlled section. There is no accelerating this, it simply infests at its own rate provided there is a hive or commander (possible role for alien commander) nearby. This will only infest neutral rooms.
Infested rooms allow faster alien movement as they are on natural ground
Marines in infested rooms alert the alien commander to their presence
Allows the construction of advanced alien defensive structures such as traps, tunnels, etc.
Infested rooms are naturally darker as they block out power & light.
Infested areas can be purged by destroying a control structure, the nearby hive or (an alternative to the two) by torching the infestation out of the room using a welder/flamethrower. This will return the room to neutral status in a short period of time after the control structure/hive has been destroyed.
<b>Marine Control:</b>
Well lit and machine/power humming rooms are the representation of a Marine controlled section. Marines must take control of a neutral room manually by restoring power conduits, activating computer systems and repairing weld joints.
Restored rooms/sections are well lit, now they are supplied with power.
Resources in restored sections are gathered faster.
Power heavy structures can be placed and manufactured in these controlled areas.
Automated defensive objects that lied dormant in the space station/ship are now active, such as proximity alarms or defensive turrets, even force shields to block vents.
Marine controlled areas can be returned to neutral by destroying/severing power. This also disabled the high power requirement structures. The aliens will also need to "infest" the computer network which will return the room (after power has been cut) to neutral status after a short period of time.
<b>The pros:</b>
Builds teamwork, adds to the atmosphere, adds another level of game play, creates a secondary objective to the mundane "gather and annihilate" method of each map.
<b>The Cons:</b>
If unbalanced or overpowered, can create stalemate situations. Increases level of complexity for map makers.
Let me know what you think, and bump it up if you like it. Provided that the benefits of a controlled area are slight and supportive, and not overwhelming and godly, the feature could really add a whole new level of enjoyment to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Other then a few points, all of this stuff is on the mappers end.
Explain how. You've explained how CoH implemented it, but you haven't explained why NS2 would benefit from it.
Dom, your reading comprehension could do with some improvement. I read the same post and EmpV explained it pretty clearly, even color highlighted it for your viewing pleasure:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 res towers in captured territory could receive a similar bonus by providing more resources, or by protecting the area in some way. (ie. turrets/lighting)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe RT's res production is greatly reduced if you do not control the territory or do not have the territories connected. Marines could choose to drop quickly and move on in a rushing strategy; or they could capture/fortify the "territory" and try to gain a resource/fortification advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS1 play is very similar with capping RT's, but "territories" would build on that and make things very interesting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems pretty clear to me NS2 would benefit from a more well defined territory flagging, aka res nodes. Its something we would do well to consider if we really want to do more than just pay lip service to the RTS side of NS2.
I was reading a PC Gamer recently and in a preview for Frontlines: Fuel of War I found myself thinking of this thread when I read this on page 27 - 28:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Once in the fight, I immediately noticed that the minimap was split in two by a glowing white line. This line is the biggest innovation of the game -- in <i>Battlefield</i>, it's easy to take a chopper or jeep capture an undefended point far from the action. Rounds devolve into predictable games of running around in circles capturing undefended points. In <i>Frontlines</i>, instead of scattering players throughout the map to capture arbitrary control points, all the action is centered on pairs of points that represent the front line of their controlled territory. That funnels all the action in two or three contested points and removes the annoying <i>Battlefield</i> tactic from play.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course the other option is the funneling Day of Defeat does with its capture points, where there seems to be one twisting path, and that doesn't seem any better than running around to all the undefended capture points aka resource nodes. Unreal Tournament 2004 also uses a territory capture points in one of its modes.
EmpV did state one situation in which it still pretty much didn't change anything at all. In fact, it plays exactly like NS already does. You can choose to advance or you could choose to turtle without the mentioned system. Making the territory aspect more rigid and less flexible (what you're trying to suggest) poses many problems and is an unnecessary limitation.
EmpV did state one situation in which it still pretty much didn't change anything at all. In fact, it plays exactly like NS already does. You can choose to advance or you could choose to turtle without the mentioned system. Making the territory aspect more rigid and less flexible (what you're trying to suggest) poses many problems and is an unnecessary limitation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you fail to comprehend what is plain as day doesn't make it sub-par. Considering the level of posts you have been displaying, you certainly are one to talk about sub-par.
It changes a lot more than you think and your statement as to it making territory rigid and less flexible just confirms it. Territory does not remove from what NS1 has done, it adds to it, providing a more intuitive system. We still get to flank the opposing side, ambush marines, and ninja hives and CCs all we like, it doesn't force anyone into trench warfare. Your lack of understanding in this matter and prickly attitude conveyed in your posts just goes to show you aren't the uber gamer you like to display yourself as or this would not be a hard concept for you to grasp. I think I see now why you seem to display anti-teamwork leanings, you must have a hard time getting anyone to cover your six, follow orders as Comm, or organize an ambush on the marines the second you open your mouth and display a self-absorbed self importance of a conceited immature gamer of CS-like origins. I wouldn't be at all surprised if you have been kicked or banned from servers I frequently have an enjoyable time playing with others on.
On the contrary, etc...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It changes a lot more than you think and your statement as to it making territory rigid and less flexible just confirms it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The benefit of that being?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Territory does not remove from what NS1 has done, it adds to it,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course it adds!
It adds limitations.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->providing a more intuitive system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The NS system is more intuitive than the complex crap suggested.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We still get to flank the opposing side, ambush marines, and ninja hives and CCs all we like, it doesn't force anyone into trench warfare.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it doesn't bring anything new.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your lack of understanding in this matter<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand the idea crystal clear and as far as I'm concerned, it's redundant. That's my finished opinion on that matter unless you could come up with some definitive points as to why this idea is better than the system in NS. So far, I've failed to see a satisfactory argument pro idea.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and prickly attitude conveyed in your posts<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just goes to show you aren't the uber gamer you like to display yourself as<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like how you connect the two, lol.
My cold, simple logic is far too hard for you to grasp, but it has nothing to do with your gaming skills.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think I see now why you seem to display anti-teamwork leanings,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its taking you awfully long and you still aren't there.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you must have a hard time getting anyone to cover your six, follow orders as Comm, or organize an ambush on the marines the second you open your mouth and display a self-absorbed self importance of a conceited immature gamer of CS-like origins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Big sentence you got there. The only decent point you have in that sentence is that nobody listens to my commanding, that's true but not for the reasons specified. Most of the time its just a breakdown of communication which I have no time to fix in game as I'm doing other things, such as throwing down an ungodly amount of meds towards random players. Recently, my whole team disregarded my orders of going towards furnace hive, their reasoning was fairly funny to me "but there are 2 ocs there!". Its really cool how 2 ocs can stop a team of 12 marines with a few shotguns considering how OCs can't even kill anything.
I still fail to see how you connect this to Counter Strike, btw. Seeing how I've only played the game for only about a month, AFTER playing NS.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wouldn't be at all surprised if you have been kicked or banned from servers I frequently have an enjoyable time playing with others on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only server I was ever banned on was Tactical Gamer for biting a gorge twice when I wanted healing. (3.something, gorge self heal was in) Oh, also:
<a href="http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=4434401" target="_blank"><img src="http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/417273859.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
A few times from random combat servers and such.
i think territory would be a nice addition to NS though. it would make the action more intense around contested points.
i think territory would be a nice addition to NS though. it would make the action more intense around contested points.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ahh, thank you for reminding me the forums have this wonderful ignore option. I appreciate it.
I think territory has a lot to add to the intensity of a match, by drawing the opposing sides together and through substance, whether that be by territory giving a connecting supply line bonus in resource gathering, benefit of either Kharaa or Marine leaning lighting and atmosphere, or even bonuses to defense and asymetrical game play of the Kharaa vs Marine conflict.
This in some ways reminds me of Crysis, where when the alien invaders get going, tropical goes arctic so the territory benefits them, at least story wise, and it throws in a nice twist to put the player off balance. Too bad the Crysis alien AI wasn't as good as fighting the Korean future military, though, that seems to spoil the effect somewhat of the alien invaders.