Breathing [Marines]
Samurai Pat
Join Date: 2008-01-03 Member: 63335Members
Join Date: 2008-01-03 Member: 63335Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Ideas for a breathing mechanic and features</div>Hi I used to play on the australian and NZ servers almost 3 years ago, I loved the game and recently bought CS: source and thought I'd look up what was going on with NS. Well I'm glad to see things are going well and I'd like to share some ideas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Breathing:
The marines have a small bar on the left hand side which functions as a stamina bar (allowing faster movement when used). The bar fluctuates up and down as the player 'breathes', with a sort of 'two steps forwards, one step backwards' approach.
100 max
+ 15 breathe in
- 10 breath out
Threshold: Breath cannot be used until there is at least 60 accumulated in the stamina bar
Marines take gas damage when breathing 'in' but not out, and they also take gas damage when using the stamina bar for actions like running.
Also functions as the oxygen bar when under water or in a vacuum.
Ideas around breathing:
[Aliens] - Aliens don't breathe
[Aliens] - Gas turret. Costs more, more hp.
[Aliens] - Gas as lerks 3rd ability (rather than 2nd).
[Aliens] - Acid cloud as lerks 2nd ability (only damages armour and buildings, not hit points)
[Environment] - Create Space areas (vaccum of space). Aliens can move through without penalty. Airlock areas (with two doors) could become important strategic points for controlling parts of the map.
[Marines] - Remove the gas mask from heavy armour, make it a seperate feature on a different tech tree
[Marines] - Create a 'helmet' that is cheaper than heavy armour, adds a small armour bonus to light or heavy armour, can be worn with light/jet packs/heavy armour and functions as a gas mask and small oxygen supply. Gas mask as last tech tree option. Call it a 'rebreather' or something.
I also think that there should be small effects in the game to create hints of 'realism', such as moving slightly slower with heavier guns but I won't get into these straight away.
I think that this would create differences between the two teams, different tech strategies for the marines, would allow aliens to get the 3rd hive more often (with lerks able to damage armour and buildings with the gas) and it would also give the jetpack more survivability towards the end of the game. I think it would also be a better way for marines in the end game stage that are doing a 'turtle' strategy and trying to build up resources, because you could drop the cheaper gas mask for light marines to survive (and also allow a jet pack to potentially sneak away and re-locate) instead of the expensive heavy armour.
Marines wouldn't need the 'gas mask' desperately until the aliens had the third hive, and would be able to use teamwork to bring down alien gas turrets. Lerks would be able to attack heavy armour more effectively with an area damage effect on armour.
Agree? Disagree? Ideas?
I did a search and am already aware of the 'sprinting' discussion, but I did feel my topic was slightly different.
Breathing:
The marines have a small bar on the left hand side which functions as a stamina bar (allowing faster movement when used). The bar fluctuates up and down as the player 'breathes', with a sort of 'two steps forwards, one step backwards' approach.
100 max
+ 15 breathe in
- 10 breath out
Threshold: Breath cannot be used until there is at least 60 accumulated in the stamina bar
Marines take gas damage when breathing 'in' but not out, and they also take gas damage when using the stamina bar for actions like running.
Also functions as the oxygen bar when under water or in a vacuum.
Ideas around breathing:
[Aliens] - Aliens don't breathe
[Aliens] - Gas turret. Costs more, more hp.
[Aliens] - Gas as lerks 3rd ability (rather than 2nd).
[Aliens] - Acid cloud as lerks 2nd ability (only damages armour and buildings, not hit points)
[Environment] - Create Space areas (vaccum of space). Aliens can move through without penalty. Airlock areas (with two doors) could become important strategic points for controlling parts of the map.
[Marines] - Remove the gas mask from heavy armour, make it a seperate feature on a different tech tree
[Marines] - Create a 'helmet' that is cheaper than heavy armour, adds a small armour bonus to light or heavy armour, can be worn with light/jet packs/heavy armour and functions as a gas mask and small oxygen supply. Gas mask as last tech tree option. Call it a 'rebreather' or something.
I also think that there should be small effects in the game to create hints of 'realism', such as moving slightly slower with heavier guns but I won't get into these straight away.
I think that this would create differences between the two teams, different tech strategies for the marines, would allow aliens to get the 3rd hive more often (with lerks able to damage armour and buildings with the gas) and it would also give the jetpack more survivability towards the end of the game. I think it would also be a better way for marines in the end game stage that are doing a 'turtle' strategy and trying to build up resources, because you could drop the cheaper gas mask for light marines to survive (and also allow a jet pack to potentially sneak away and re-locate) instead of the expensive heavy armour.
Marines wouldn't need the 'gas mask' desperately until the aliens had the third hive, and would be able to use teamwork to bring down alien gas turrets. Lerks would be able to attack heavy armour more effectively with an area damage effect on armour.
Agree? Disagree? Ideas?
I did a search and am already aware of the 'sprinting' discussion, but I did feel my topic was slightly different.
Comments
The marines have a small bar on the left hand side which functions as a stamina bar (allowing faster movement when used). The bar fluctuates up and down as the player 'breathes', with a sort of 'two steps forwards, one step backwards' approach.
100 max
+ 15 breathe in
- 10 breath out<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Breathing? Only CS players would think of something so stupid. No offense to you personally, but yeah that's pretty dumb. Now that that's out of the way lets discuss it.
I already find it hard to digest the idea that we are going to be forced to use some sort of sprint key as if NS2 will be offering realistic movement, yet at the same time we are ALSO still going to be dealing with people bunny hopping. *sigh* It's just so... <i>1987 mod material</i> ya know? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I would agree with maybe a stamina bar if it was used to keep the "jumping jacks" to a minimum. I disagree however, because it sounds like you want to somehow try and use a feature which was introduced because of excessive loser campers in the CS mod, as a part of another game where noone really has any time to sit and aim. Its in CS but not in most other mods. Whynot?
I say let it die with the mod and think of something new for NS2. Stamina for jumping or maybe even weight of armor and weapons changing the player movement sure, but breathing would probably piss people off too much. I stopped playing CS when it turned into "Durka Durka Jihad and his AWP, version #426." No offense to you again and I mean it [I played CS for a few months], but I do <i>kinda</i> have bigger expectations for NS. *shrug*
exactly. adding a stamina bar just for the sake of holding your breath will just add more complexity, with little/no benefit to the gameplay.
and if you think about it, aliens wouldnt have evolved such an effective weapon as lerk gas, if marines could just hold their breath... it goes against all of the basic laws of evolution. if an alien mutated so they could produce gas, only for marines to circumvent the effects by holding their breath, the alien wouldnt be of much use to the colony... so they would have to mutate further until it is useful, or quickly die out and be replaced by a lifeform that can do the job better.
i mean really think about it a bit further. almost all of the gasses used in warfare in the present and past, enter the humans through a variety of different orafices or pores, and effect the human in a multitude of different ways. there are gasses that not only corrode the lungs, but burn away the skin, and gasses that enter the bloodstream through the pores of the skin to cause nervous damage, not just through the lungs. hell, even good ol' WW1 mustard gas (which rots the lungs making them collapse) can still cause significant injury through the eye sockets - hence why old WW1 gas masks covered the whole face, not just the mouth and nose. do you honestly think a marine woud survive an advanced alien gas weapon if he just held his breath, or breathed into a paper bag?
now that i mention it, if this idea is actually implemented (lol sif) i want a paper bag to be standard issue for every marine, so as soon as we see a green cloud, we can all sit in the corner and hyperventilate until it disapates.
oh yeah, also lerk gas does already damage marine armor.....
*edit* sorry to be so harsh, but sometimes its the best solution to a problem, and you've presented a great example to this. i guess the one part of your post i do agree with, its that jetpackers should get a mask. i dont care weather it filters out the gas or not, and i dont think it should be a seperate piece of equipment. i just think that jetpackers would look hella-cool with a full face mask. that is all.
Breathing doesn't belong in games. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Leave breathing for RL. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Marines take damage on the 'breathe in' part of the breath cycle, which makes gas damage more periodic (larger damage over longer periods).
Breathing is how the stamina bar re-fills (that was the idea).
It is just an idea to make the marines feel 'more human' to the people playing them.
The overall reaction was very negative, so I'll drop the topic.
I have also found that more information on the GUI decreases immersion, unless it is displayed in a creative way. Like some FPS where the ammunition is displayed on the actual gun rather than as an inkmark on the screen, but the GUI is another discussion really.
I still think letting aliens breath in a vacuum or have unlimited breath underwater would be cool - I'm unable to play NS and check to see if these features were in it, and I haven't played it in a while, but from what I remember both teams were affected by drowning. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Having a technology to counter a tactic is part and parcel of NS. As long as the tech tree and the monetary balance is worked out adequately (late game tech, 15 res for mask in my thinking), I wouldn't have an issue with JPer's having a mask. Especially if it took as long to research as HA or JP. I would actually remove the gas mask from the heavy armour. From the aliens perspective it soaks up more res that could be used on weaponry, and makes lerks more effective against heavy armour (until later in the game). It requires more comm skill because you have to choose carefully which tech to pursue and have to medpack your HA units more often, and drop equipment better for your team.
It also frees up the notion that you have to choose jet packs or heavy armour. Just choose gas masks and buy weapons and let your light marines run the show.
I think it would have to be playtested (the gasmask) to see whether or not it made the game more interesting.
well... every living creature respirates.
I really don't think thats true. They have other attacks and besides, you still have to spec it and spend resources there. That takes time, and resources. It really just makes jet packs stronger against lerks, but fades and skulks are also good ways to kill JPers.
I am also for adding an additional lerk ability (like a bile bomb cloud) that damages armour and buildings only. I would replace the 'barbarian shout' style ability (speed and damage cloud).
Not all living creatures would need to breath. What you need is a chemical reaction process that provides power to your muscles, it doesn't neccesarily have to be oxygen. It could be provided by continuously eating other lifeforms, which is pretty much what the aliens have already (bio points to spend on evolutionary upgrades). Evolution from a parasite might make such a lifeform possible.
I am also for adding an additional lerk ability (like a bile bomb cloud) that damages armour and buildings only. I would replace the 'barbarian shout' style ability (speed and damage cloud).
Not all living creatures would need to breath. What you need is a chemical reaction process that provides power to your muscles, it doesn't neccesarily have to be oxygen. It could be provided by continuously eating other lifeforms, which is pretty much what the aliens have already (bio points to spend on evolutionary upgrades). Evolution from a parasite might make such a lifeform possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh welcome to the forums ..... i dunno why people went so over the top, id rather a fresh bad idea that another "sniper rifles" topic lol
but my point is i don't think aliens should be able to survive in a <b>vacuum</b>.
and yeah, I don't like the idea of breathing, in any game. :/ it's an unnecessary restriction.
as for 'breathing' in uses other than stamina or as a restriction (like taking periodic damage from gas), it's an interesting idea
That made me laugh!
Thanks I'll work on a fresh good idea <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
First off, holy, you guys were mean. Sure, the suggested implementation wasn't ideal, but there were some very interesting things brought up that I am sure we have thought about before:
1) Non-human breathing enviroments (different gases, underwater, etc)
2) The cold hard vacuum of space
Actually, we already have breathing to some extent in NS1, when we go underwater, if you stay there too long we start to take damage. Is it such a stretch to consider there may be more ways to approach it in NS2? I know for myself, I've thought that any human who traveled through space would need to take into account how to survive in enviroments that were not earth like, that is the earth like areas where humans live, there is the extreme cold, extreme hot, and extreme depth of the oceans where humans rarely live and if they do live there it requires special tools and special training, even then it is most likely unsustainable ... but our world doesn't have nanites like Natural Selection does. I wonder what could be done then...
Heck, just once I want to have like a flooded base to fight the Kharaa in or perhaps earth quakes have broken lava through somewhere or the air is unbreathable or some plasta steel viewing port gets broken and we might be sucked out into space... All situations where a Marine open face helmet hardly serves as any protection. Quick, issue the Heavy suits or we won't be able to breath!
Oh, and I think NS1 already has a sniper weapon, the pistol. I would think something more fitting could be considered. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />