Just some friendly suggestions
EETURFLESH
Join Date: 2008-01-27 Member: 63510Members
Join Date: 2008-01-27 Member: 63510Members
Hi folks. Just wanted to voice my opinion.
ALIENS
Ideas for two new classes.
WRETCH (suggested name)
-A small, slow-moving support class, able absorb more damage and has stronger attacks than the Gorge. Is able to build EMP chambers and Resource towers, but none of the other chambers or Hives.
-Primary attack is a moderately powered slash attack with a slow rate of fire.
-Secondary attack however, is non combat. A tiny deployable is shot at an enemy structure, which drains the building's health.
-Tertiary attack is similar to Skulk's Parasite. It is shot at a Marine and is left in them, causing minimal damage. However, whenever the Wretch feels like it, it can activate the Parasite and turn the host into a "zombie". The zombie moves slower than the average marine, and cannot use the marine's weapons. The Wretch controls it's zombie from a certain distance (can be somewhat far away, but can't be on the other side of the map), but the zombie is on a timer. Once the marine becomes the zombie, a timer appears in the wretch's screen, and once this runs out, the zombie explodes. The zombie can also be detonated at any time by the Wretch. This would be an excellent way of spying on the Marines or creating sneak attacks.
-Quaternary and attack can only be achieved once all three hives are active and a special structure is built, the "EMP chamber". This attack will be similar to Xenocide, except instead of killing the user, it would only reduce its health to half of what it was at the time of attack. The EMP wave, when used near Marine's structures, would temporarily disable them, I.E. if used near a resource tower and turret factory with energy shield, the resource tower would stop providing resources and the turret factory would stop the turrets from working, and both would lose their shielding.
OGRE (suggested name)
-The suggested primary fighting force of the Kharaa. Slower and less powerful than the Fade, but with a more varied attack array and requires less resources to become one.
-Primary attack is a powerful bite. The bite is semi-automatic, so the player can rapidly tap the mouse to achieve several bites. Holding the mouse down charges it for a more powerful chomp.
-Secondary attack is a leap, which if it hits a foe, pins them to the ground and slashes at them with fairly weak claws beneath the belly. The marine is helpless in this situation, and must hope for a teammate to come and save him, as the Ogre is highly susceptible to damage at this time.
-Tertiary attack is a sort of push that requires the Ogre to be very close to an enemy for the attack to work. It smacks them, sending them flying and causing them to drop their primary weapon. This does not do much damage to the Marine, but the real danger is that the Ogre makes a unique noise when it does the push, alerting nearby units to attack the weapon less marine.
-Quaternary attack releases a horde of small organisms, not unlike the Snarks from HL. They do a fair amount of damage and are quick, but can be killed with one shot from the LMG.
HUMANS
-Marines can choose one of three set classes at the start of the game: assult, support, or scientist, and can change their class at any time during the game.
-Assult marines are the basic combat class and have the widest array of available weapons. They have average speed and armour.
-Support marines are slower than the assult and scientist classes and have the capibillity to carry heavier weapons than the other classes. They also have the largest amount of armour. They carry an ammo crate on their back and can drop packs of ammo for their teammates to pick up. However, the pack has a limit of how much ammo it can carry, and over-using it will cause it to run out. It will slowly regenerate ammo over time. The ammo cannot be used once the support marine is dead, not suprisingly.
-Scientist marines are the fastest class with the least armour. They can only use ligher weapons and have minimal ammo storage capabillities. The upside is if they follow their teammates and encounter a dead body of an alien, they can scan it to research how to make the weapons more useful against the Kharaa. The more advanced the alien, the faster the research is completed. This would be a quicker and easier alternitive to waiting for the commander to upgrade the weapons.
OTHER IDEAS
-Full animations for the building of Alien's chambers, res towers and hives. Starting as slime on the ground (or the ceiling) and slowly taking form.
-Full animations for the building of Marine's res towers and deployables, starting as a small metal box and folding outward into the required shape.
-Damaged structures and players bleed and/or spark, leaving trails of blood and chunks of flesh behind if they escape.
-The options menu should no longer be opened by right clicking. This should be left open for more varied kinds of attacks and/or special abilities.
-Finally (and this is just a little idea, don't take it too seriously) what about a third team? In most games like NS, there are the Humans, the animalistic aliens, and the technologically advanced race of intelligent aliens. In AVP it was the Predators (Yaut'ja), in Starcraft it was the Protoss. How about a new race? They'd use energy weapons, they'd move faster than the Frontiersmen but have shorter ranged weapons, and move slower but have longer ranged weapons than the Kharaa. It might be too late for NS2 to add an entirely new class, but maybe in NS3...?
Let me know what you think.
QUICK EDIT: I did some concept drawings, I may post them in a while.
ALIENS
Ideas for two new classes.
WRETCH (suggested name)
-A small, slow-moving support class, able absorb more damage and has stronger attacks than the Gorge. Is able to build EMP chambers and Resource towers, but none of the other chambers or Hives.
-Primary attack is a moderately powered slash attack with a slow rate of fire.
-Secondary attack however, is non combat. A tiny deployable is shot at an enemy structure, which drains the building's health.
-Tertiary attack is similar to Skulk's Parasite. It is shot at a Marine and is left in them, causing minimal damage. However, whenever the Wretch feels like it, it can activate the Parasite and turn the host into a "zombie". The zombie moves slower than the average marine, and cannot use the marine's weapons. The Wretch controls it's zombie from a certain distance (can be somewhat far away, but can't be on the other side of the map), but the zombie is on a timer. Once the marine becomes the zombie, a timer appears in the wretch's screen, and once this runs out, the zombie explodes. The zombie can also be detonated at any time by the Wretch. This would be an excellent way of spying on the Marines or creating sneak attacks.
-Quaternary and attack can only be achieved once all three hives are active and a special structure is built, the "EMP chamber". This attack will be similar to Xenocide, except instead of killing the user, it would only reduce its health to half of what it was at the time of attack. The EMP wave, when used near Marine's structures, would temporarily disable them, I.E. if used near a resource tower and turret factory with energy shield, the resource tower would stop providing resources and the turret factory would stop the turrets from working, and both would lose their shielding.
OGRE (suggested name)
-The suggested primary fighting force of the Kharaa. Slower and less powerful than the Fade, but with a more varied attack array and requires less resources to become one.
-Primary attack is a powerful bite. The bite is semi-automatic, so the player can rapidly tap the mouse to achieve several bites. Holding the mouse down charges it for a more powerful chomp.
-Secondary attack is a leap, which if it hits a foe, pins them to the ground and slashes at them with fairly weak claws beneath the belly. The marine is helpless in this situation, and must hope for a teammate to come and save him, as the Ogre is highly susceptible to damage at this time.
-Tertiary attack is a sort of push that requires the Ogre to be very close to an enemy for the attack to work. It smacks them, sending them flying and causing them to drop their primary weapon. This does not do much damage to the Marine, but the real danger is that the Ogre makes a unique noise when it does the push, alerting nearby units to attack the weapon less marine.
-Quaternary attack releases a horde of small organisms, not unlike the Snarks from HL. They do a fair amount of damage and are quick, but can be killed with one shot from the LMG.
HUMANS
-Marines can choose one of three set classes at the start of the game: assult, support, or scientist, and can change their class at any time during the game.
-Assult marines are the basic combat class and have the widest array of available weapons. They have average speed and armour.
-Support marines are slower than the assult and scientist classes and have the capibillity to carry heavier weapons than the other classes. They also have the largest amount of armour. They carry an ammo crate on their back and can drop packs of ammo for their teammates to pick up. However, the pack has a limit of how much ammo it can carry, and over-using it will cause it to run out. It will slowly regenerate ammo over time. The ammo cannot be used once the support marine is dead, not suprisingly.
-Scientist marines are the fastest class with the least armour. They can only use ligher weapons and have minimal ammo storage capabillities. The upside is if they follow their teammates and encounter a dead body of an alien, they can scan it to research how to make the weapons more useful against the Kharaa. The more advanced the alien, the faster the research is completed. This would be a quicker and easier alternitive to waiting for the commander to upgrade the weapons.
OTHER IDEAS
-Full animations for the building of Alien's chambers, res towers and hives. Starting as slime on the ground (or the ceiling) and slowly taking form.
-Full animations for the building of Marine's res towers and deployables, starting as a small metal box and folding outward into the required shape.
-Damaged structures and players bleed and/or spark, leaving trails of blood and chunks of flesh behind if they escape.
-The options menu should no longer be opened by right clicking. This should be left open for more varied kinds of attacks and/or special abilities.
-Finally (and this is just a little idea, don't take it too seriously) what about a third team? In most games like NS, there are the Humans, the animalistic aliens, and the technologically advanced race of intelligent aliens. In AVP it was the Predators (Yaut'ja), in Starcraft it was the Protoss. How about a new race? They'd use energy weapons, they'd move faster than the Frontiersmen but have shorter ranged weapons, and move slower but have longer ranged weapons than the Kharaa. It might be too late for NS2 to add an entirely new class, but maybe in NS3...?
Let me know what you think.
QUICK EDIT: I did some concept drawings, I may post them in a while.
Comments
+1 for humans having basic classes. Doesn't have to be anything crazy, but I always did wish they had maybe three classes. I could see someone's class giving them a "+" for using certain weapons, but why scientist? Doesn't the commander have the responsability for choosing what to research? If it is just in the field stuff like you suggested then I think that's great. The scientist could heal people, do on the spot stuff like you suggested, and also have a welder as part of their "getup."
Would any of these classes cost more/less res to spawn, or are they all the same with just a balanced amount of usefulness?
Also.. I am sure they will be adding alot more animations for structures and whatnot. NS1 was using the HL1 engine, and often people who use older engines also do things so the mahjority of people [who have poopy systems] can play the mod. *shrug* That's the downside.
Charge-up bite:
The primary and tertiary ogre abilities sound very intriguing. I'd like to see a charge-type attack for aliens, especially because the focus upgrade was so popular in NS1. When charging up, the alien should make a sound, because otherwise it would be too powerful as an ambush weapon. I hope that the developers see and consider this idea!
Push-attack:
I also like the idea of an attack that pushes the marines away. When hit in NS1 the marines' view is slightly distorted, but i'd like some aliens to have an ability to really shake up marines or even push them off cliffs! Making a marine drop his weapon seems too powerful, since it would make solo marines very vulnerable. I'd suggest a softer version: disable the primary weapon for 2-5 seconds (or so).
Building animations:
Buildings will have more animations, the question is "how many more?" Cory, the NS2 concept artist, has mentioned that they're planning to add special animations and multiple idle animations to the hive. I assume the same goes for the rest of chambers and marine buildings. This would only make sense for a full-fledged commercial product.
Visual damage indicator:
I assume you mean that the effect is just visual - bleeding doesn't actually reduce hit points. I would also like a visual indicator of damage for structures/marines/life forms. Have buildings spark and have aliens' and marines' skin change to look more worn-out and damaged. A trail of blood might add to visual appeal, but i think it would make the game too gory.
Right-mouse use:
The developers announced that they will add alternate fire, so the right mouse button will be used for extra abilities. They haven't revealed how they'll handle the menu yet, but it should be easy enough.
Third race: Robots!
Yes, Charlie said this in <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103427" target="_blank">podcast 14,</a> and i quote: "...Or Marines versus Robots – the mystical third race." Read the whole transcript to find out more!
The other things i didn't comment, because they are too much of a departure from NS1. It is not because I worship NS and don't want it to change - it's because any new concept brings a lot of uncertainties with it and would complicate the development significantly. Max mentioned the approach in creating the sequel to NS by doing 1/3 old, 1/3 improved, 1/3 new (Unfortunately, i don't remember exactly how he said it). They already have mentioned a lot of new and improved stuff: infestation, "alien comm", portal-like alien canals, weld-bot, new welding system, marine "spells," alien "spells"…
New life forms: Current set of lifeforms already fit a diverse set of roles. If they add one new life-form, it would be great, but i don't think they have to do it.
Marine classes: Creating a class system is redundant.
Rant on classes:
What is a class in a FPS? It is a unique set of weapons, abilities and player characteristics. In NS1 the commander already gives out weapons, creating mini classes. He can also give out HA and JP, which change marine characteristics and add abilities. The main difference from all FPS is that in NS1 the commander defines the class – not the player. In NS2 the developers consider allowing the marines to buy weapons themselves (btw, there is a huge <a href="http://Welcome%20to%20the%20forums!%20These%20are%20some%20very%20well%20thought-out%20ideas%20-%20i%20bet%20you%20have%20been%20browsing%20the%20forums%20or%20were%20a%20member%20before" target="_blank">thread dedicated to just that</a>! and one of suggested ideas is a system where the comm defines classes in-game, which marines can then select). Many multiplayer shooters have classes, to 'forcibly' (maybe a wrong word) create variety - well, in NS the comm <i>dynamically </i>establishes variety in marine play style by giving out weapons that are needed.
Way to incorporate your class ideas into NS1 system:
New items:
Ammo crate: Secondary item. Works just like you describe
Light suit: cheap droppable item. Reduces armor, ammo storage, and restricts weapon choices, but increases speed
Research tool: Secondary item. Just like you describe
There – you can have the same variety, except now you can have many more custom “classes.†The only difference, and that may be what <i>really</i> bugs so many people, is that the marine would have absolutely no say in what his class would be. To solve this, NS2 will probably give marines some leeway in choice of weapons and hence their “class.†The commander would define what choices his marines have through research and might provide incentives for picking certain “classes†by adjusting weapon costs… I’m getting too much into speculation – there isn’t much official info on this yet, but there was a lot of discussion in the thread I mentioned.
You have very creative ideas and i'd like to see your concept drawings. Charlie and Max may like to see them too - after all they're looking for an artist!
So, all I find that I can really add is another welcome to the forums and thanks for a well thought out post. My only unsolicited advice that I would give would be to divide your ideas up into multiple threadsnext time, even other people's threads where your ideas have enough similarity with the thread's topic. Threads labeled "My Ideas" "A couple ideas" "A couple suggestions" are unfortunately vague and do not help the Devs or fellow forums goers know if they wish to bother clicking to find out if the subject is something they wish to delve into. Hope you understand what I mean.
I hope hope to read more of your well thought out posts in the future. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm don't like the first life form. Specifically, the thing that turns marines into a "zombie". One hit kill by turning them into it and then they explode? That's...highly imbalanced. The EMP wave thing is also pretty cheap. Disabling a large number of important structures (if they're too close together) and making their res spent on electrifying RTs and the like going to waste is...a little overpowered.
The ogre isn't bad, but the disarming thing could be abused. Specifically, if a squad of ogres disarmed a squad of marines...how are they supposed to survive with just a pistol?
I sort of like the marine class system, but the giving of ammunition should be limited. Marines shouldn't be totally self-sufficient; the commander is a large part of raids and such as well, and I think the game would lose some of the feel if he didn't remain so.
As for the blood/sparks thing, I'm all for showing if a marine is injured, but chunks of flesh and trails of blood is sort of crossing the line...
However, I don't think that Charlie was being serious about marines vs. robots being in the game. Maybe as a mod, but...dear lord, I don't think I'd touch NS if it turned into a generic "Alien vs. Predator" ripoff...
<!--quoteo(post=1668621:date=Jan 27 2008, 09:57 PM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corpsman @ Jan 27 2008, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1668621"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only gorgies should be able to build chambers and full "base" stuff. If someone else does it, it will feel like taking away the unique powers of the gorge. I am all for anything new, but only gorges should be the builder class, not another one...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. But the class I'm trying to make here is not a replacement or clone of the gorge. No, this would be a sort of "building clearer". It can't build any hives, spec abillity chambers or attack chambers, but if it finds itself alone in an empty hallway with an enemy res tower right in front of it, it wouldn't have any trouble removing it or replacing it. That's it's job, it's a janitor.
Wow, I rarely see posts that meet or exceed the length of the OP. Thanks for this one, afratnikov.
<!--quoteo(post=1668634:date=Jan 28 2008, 01:04 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Jan 28 2008, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1668634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Marine classes: Creating a class system is redundant. ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not trying to get something like Team Fortress here, just wanting to give players the option to get more points if they want to sacrifice something, so speed in the case of the support marines, or armour in the case of the scientists.
<!--quoteo(post=1668634:date=Jan 28 2008, 01:04 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Jan 28 2008, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1668634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Way to incorporate your class ideas into NS1 system:
New items:
Ammo crate: Secondary item. Works just like you describe
Light suit: cheap droppable item. Reduces armor, ammo storage, and restricts weapon choices, but increases speed
Research tool: Secondary item. Just like you describe
There – you can have the same variety, except now you can have many more custom “classes.†The only difference, and that may be what <i>really</i> bugs so many people, is that the marine would have absolutely no say in what his class would be. To solve this, NS2 will probably give marines some leeway in choice of weapons and hence their “class.†The commander would define what choices his marines have through research and might provide incentives for picking certain “classes†by adjusting weapon costs… I’m getting too much into speculation – there isn’t much official info on this yet, but there was a lot of discussion in the thread I mentioned.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, I'm unable to mod at this point. Still learning the basics, you see.
<!--quoteo(post=1668634:date=Jan 28 2008, 01:04 AM:name=afratnikov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(afratnikov @ Jan 28 2008, 01:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1668634"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have very creative ideas and i'd like to see your concept drawings. Charlie and Max may like to see them too - after all they're looking for an artist!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for the support, but these aren't exactly mateirial they'd want to pay me for. They're just quick little sketches.
<!--quoteo(post=1668706:date=Jan 28 2008, 11:16 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jan 28 2008, 11:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1668706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, all I find that I can really add is another welcome to the forums and thanks for a well thought out post. My only unsolicited advice that I would give would be to divide your ideas up into multiple threadsnext time, even other people's threads where your ideas have enough similarity with the thread's topic. Threads labeled "My Ideas" "A couple ideas" "A couple suggestions" are unfortunately vague and do not help the Devs or fellow forums goers know if they wish to bother clicking to find out if the subject is something they wish to delve into. Hope you understand what I mean.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I was going to split it, but I didn't want to spam the forum.
<!--quoteo(post=1668729:date=Jan 28 2008, 01:00 PM:name=Moving_Target0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Moving_Target0 @ Jan 28 2008, 01:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1668729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm don't like the first life form. Specifically, the thing that turns marines into a "zombie". One hit kill by turning them into it and then they explode? That's...highly imbalanced. The EMP wave thing is also pretty cheap. Disabling a large number of important structures (if they're too close together) and making their res spent on electrifying RTs and the like going to waste is...a little overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I was reconsidering the parasite attack. Maybe some kinde of cap on it to prevent over-use, or making the flight path of the projectile arc severly to make it harder to use, I'm not sure.
As for it's EMP wave attack, this would be available when the third hive is complete, and even then only after the EMP chamber is created. I thought this might be a more effective tool later in the game when the rgameplay really starts getting crazy.
Finally, here are my sketches. I know they're not very Natural Selection-ey right now, but bear in mind they're <i>just sketches.</i>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/death_chimp/wretch.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The Wretch.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/death_chimp/ogre.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The Ogre. It's supposed to have three mandibles, but it came out looking a little weird.
For the EMP - You have to keep in mind, getting three hives and building a chamber happens a lot. A quick, easy siege disruption leads to them becoming useless, as well.
I'm not trying to be negative, but these two things should be rethought or replaced...perhaps the parasite type weapon would only turn them into "zombie mode" if it kills the marine, and then the "zombie" dies if the controlling alien is shot down. Perhaps the EMP could be countered, or only deal damage to structures instead of a temporary shutdown, which would lead to their destruction by other life forms.
Hmm, the menu button could be simply 'hold Q', like in BF2. It's pretty simple, quick, and would be somewhat familiar, so why not? Of course there could be a control option to change the key, as well as change whether it's a 'hold' or a 'toggle'. (eg. in FPS games, Crouch is usually held, and Prone is usually toggled)
Just to sound like a hypocrite here's another uber idea!
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hive5.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::hive::" border="0" alt="hive5.gif" />
Kharaa unit that looks like a mix between the hive and the "Glowy"
Floats/Levitates DOES NOT FLY
Act as a moving hive that spawns up to three Glowies at a time
Spore/Gas attack heals Kharaa damages Marine
Able to send an electric shock into machinery by touching shutting it down for a time. This ability would of course have a fairly long cooldown time.
Alternate vision allows you to see heat/electricity/scent trails
Sacrafice yourself to create a mini-hive or some other structure
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
Also I can't remember where I read it but someone mentioned uranium rounds and got burned for it but maybe its not such a bad idea. Make it so that the marines can track the radiation on their radar and cause radiation damage over time.
Also maybe add a melee function to some firearm as a last ditch attack if you run out of weapons or are just franticly trying to kill your oponent
In all honesty I agree that NS2 probably won't NEED any extra playable Aliens for the Kharaa just some new abilities just like the Marines could use some new highertech weapons.
As for the zombie idea maybe it could be an ability only available when your almost dead and you infect the marine in some way turning him into a Kharaa/Human hybrid the animation of the transformation would be pretty frigg'n sweet. lol Just imagine a fade in marine combat armor
As for the zombie idea maybe it could be an ability only available when your almost dead and you infect the marine in some way turning him into a Kharaa/Human hybrid the animation of the transformation would be pretty frigg'n sweet. lol Just imagine a fade in marine combat armor<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean like the knife?
A fade in marine armor would be sort of dumb looking...and by the time the marine is dead, the armor would be useless. I'm not really thinking that the whole "zombie marine" thing is a good idea...
P.D:nice drawing : )