There have been a few other map packs before, but from what I've found, its been a few years since the last. While a few new maps have come out since the last pack, I fully admit that many, if not the majority, of the maps in this pack have been in previous map packs.
There are <i>so many</i> custom NS maps out there, and there are some absolute gems. Its just that they're obscured by a ton of rocks, as well as some too-flawed gems. Part of the goal for this map pack is to put a solid effort into weeding out the top-notch custom classic maps. That of course is a subjective task and I, like most others, definitely have my own taste. But at least when its me sifting through the maps, you know that there won't be any glaring problems with sieges, any silly layouts, any 'technical problems'. I can catch those, at the very least.
<i>side note: talking about technical problems, I'm really worried about ns_hulk_b3. Can anyone please respond in that thread? It's randomly crashed on me at startup, but it may be related to memory and background programs. I think its the best of the list so far, so i'm really hesitant to pull it, especially after I had a full run through with no problems.</i>
So the purpose of this map pack is multi-fold. (1) Skim off the cream of the crop of the custom classic ns maps (2) Fix them up as them as I can, which mostly means doing all the Minimaps. A custom map without the vents coloured or the areas labelled only adds to the confusion, and pretty significantly. I've already fixed up about 3/6 minimaps, so that alone will encourage people to enjoy them more. (3) Pack these maps together into a simple straightforward download (4) Get these maps actually out into playtime, by posting about this pack on every server forum I can find
Now, I've already done this with every version of Nexus I've released. I'm not doing this pack because of Nexus. I'm doing it because I love custom maps, but its not enough to just run around them by myself checking for problems. With a well-put-together Unofficial Map Pack, there's a far better chance that these maps will see more playtime, which could even lead to long-term playtime. And frankly, if I get to play any of these maps on a full server, I'd feel that I'd succeeded. [some already get played on full servers, but, for instance, I think of this list, only Achio and Nexus have proper minimaps]
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
It certainly is a worthy cause, and increasing the profile of all these maps is nothing but good. I think you will have a much better chance at getting the map pack onto popular servers if it is reasonably small. Out of curiosity, are you generally happy with interest you find in your own maps? My general understanding is that it is difficult to get a map added to a server rotation, but perhaps this is not the case everywhere.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1669021:date=Jan 31 2008, 01:55 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jan 31 2008, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It certainly is a worthy cause, and increasing the profile of all these maps is nothing but good. I think you will have a much better chance at getting the map pack onto popular servers if it is reasonably small. Out of curiosity, are you generally happy with interest you find in your own maps? My general understanding is that it is difficult to get a map added to a server rotation, but perhaps this is not the case everywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A smaller mappack could be better, but from what I've seen over at the FH community (here I go again <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> ). They have released a bunch of mappacks with about 6-10 maps. And the maps are played as well. I just don't buy into this idea that Valve made up about TF2 and a low number of maps. Just look at random game server and see huge varieity of maps they have running.
From what I've tried to get some feedback on me maps is by going into servers or going into server communities (aka forums) and asking if they are interested in running the map for feedback or playtest purpose. There is usually met with a positive response, if they like what they see and read about the map.
But fact is...
<_< >_>
We mappers are overall a lazy bunch of ######s <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->*runs of into the sunset, while overtaking Lucky Luke*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1669021:date=Jan 30 2008, 07:55 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Jan 30 2008, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It certainly is a worthy cause, and increasing the profile of all these maps is nothing but good. I think you will have a much better chance at getting the map pack onto popular servers if it is reasonably small. Out of curiosity, are you generally happy with interest you find in your own maps? My general understanding is that it is difficult to get a map added to a server rotation, but perhaps this is not the case everywhere.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm definitely happy with the interest people and servers have had in Nexus. Of course there are the bad parts, where some people simply claim the map to be s*** or unplayable etc, and then there are those who simply won't learn a new map (especially a complex one like Nexus) and form their opinions as such.
But then theres all the people who have given such praise for it, and each one has made the whole ordeal worth it. Pretty much every active server has loaded it and its been played enough, but there definitely is a general inhibition of many players to try new maps. The majority of players need encouragement to try anything new, and even then its infrequent. But yes, to get Nexus onto these servers has taken a significant enough amount of work on my part. Mainly in posting well.
I'm considering separating the maps into separate packs. Some, like Nexus, Hulk, Achio and maybe Enceladus could be put into a 'Hardcore' map category; maps that have a lot of detail, complexity, and depth. The others could be put into a more 'standard' map category, as they have simpler layouts and such. Its like the divide between Machina and Lucid.
But then again, if the overall file size isnt too too big, I'd prefer to have them all together in one bundle.
They're all great maps, really. A lot of the included maps are often overlooked too quickly by regular players, and i bet the minimaps alone would fix a lot of that issue. If you take a normal buildminimap, the vents just add such insanity to the visible layout, and Labels are one of the best additions to NS ever. Rust and Enceladus, both with minimaps already done for the map pack, have proven to me just how much easier they can be to navigate with proper maps.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited January 2008
See, I don't think it is just about filesize. When a random player or server op looks at a pack of 8 maps, I think many will think "gosh, learning 8 maps well enough to pick 1-2 for our server rotation is a daunting task". I think two map packs is a possibility, say one with 3 maps, and one with 6-8 maps that would be a superset of the smaller pack.
Again, out of curiosity, how many servers have added nexus to their mapcycle.txt?
In defense of those reluctant to learn a new map: Many people have limited time to play computer games, and some of these people prefer to spend that time playing something they know well. I'd assume that a lot of the people you find on an average NS server play NS to satisfy the 'play something I know well' mood, and therefore they aren't as open to custom maps. Personally, I know that most of the time I just hit cancel when a custom map starts to download, but other times when I'm at the PC for 4+ hours of NS, I'm totally open to trying a custom map.
Anyway, I know I might appear to be coming across as negative, but I am very much in favour of this project and just wanted to throw out some questions that I felt were important to ask. As I have already said, if nothing more comes out of this other than a convenient one-stop-shop for the best of the custom maps, then it will have been worth the effort, but I do believe that if you pay close attention to what the general community will accept, you can push things a bit further than that.
Kouji: I totally agree with valve. I think they are well aware that out of all the CS maps 3-4 maps are played 80% of the time. I'd rather see them concentrate their efforts to produce a small number of dust2/aztec quality maps, than a lot of sub-par maps. Even looking at TF2, you'll see the huge popularity of servers with '2forts 24x7' and 'dustbowl 24x7' in their title.
Taking this a step further, if you can pick 2-4 really superb maps and get exposure for them, then you not only promote those maps, but the very idea of quality map packs and increase potential interest in a follow on project. Why not call it 'NS Community Map-pack #1' and plan to do another one 10-12 weeks after the first one is released.
I'm saying all of the above as an NSPlayer and as a serverop ( I've been adminning HL servers since 99 ), none of the above opinions have much to do with my experiences as an NS developer.
Nexus is good enough to put in a map pack. even though i still think the highest hive is unsiegeable by aliens or marines.
What may actually be a more effective purpose for this thread is to list maps that are playable. Maps that don't crash or have impossible biases and don't look like boxes and rectangles. And to keep track of which ones actually have active updates.
I should have a free weekend this week (no overtime \o/ ), so I'll try to see if I can get a crash out of Hulk. I never remembered it crashing on me before, so hopefully it was a freak occurrence. Can you make a quick note of which versions of the maps you're using, there are a few flying about for some.
Incidentally, have you tried getting in contact with any of the mapmakers? I'm sure most would be interested in this, and if Hulk, for example, were to have a fatal crash that could harm its chances of being included, I'm sure Rendy would try to put some time aside for fixing it.
If they could be contacted we could also even sort out some more focused playtests?
Puzl, servers with Nexus loaded right now are: G4B2S, BAD, TG, NS-Game, and a few other servers that have since shut down/died, such as Gorges Hideout and VH2. Of course, a few of those servers require admins to manually change the map, while some have it in the votelist.
There's still a week before the planned release date, so i'll mull over the multi-pack thing. I'm still leaning towards a full pack though... the maps are all quality, and too many have been held back before by bad minimaps.
Commofdoom, heh, Chromo is a real b**** if the marines relocate there, thats for sure. Not nearly as bad as Cargo on Nothing, but still. If it isnt a reloc, Fades tend to rip apart everything in that room, and marines have a pretty balanced siege from Keystone (try placing the cannons on the outside wall). The siege from the other side is a bit brutal, but can make great use of mines, and is great for a ninja PG. And please tell me you've tried a PG in the Infested Hub, or even the Secondary Hub... you can get some awesome Splinter-Cell style through-the-vents hive rushes out of those.
And comm, a lot of these maps havn't been updated in over two years, and likely won't be again. The minimap updates im giving them really really ease the learning curve (and frankly make them far more playable), but if there are actual map problems, we're probably out of luck.
Crispy, i've sent off some PMs, but noone's responded so far. Check the Hulk thread i started... it has the download link I used and everything.
There's a beta 4 version of saturn. It's not a huge update, but it does make it easier for the comm to drop structures at certain locations. The change log and dl link can be found here: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=101887&st=60" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/ind...01887&st=60</a>
Either that or over excessively compulsive perfectionists who then get burned out and avoid the project of ear of it taking over and running us to the ground.
haha, true that. I havn't been putting much time into Stage recently, because i've had so much other stuff on my plate. Creating a portfolio website, creating the content for that site (models, fixing up old maps, graphics), even this map pack <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />.
On that note though, I'm delaying this map pack by at least another week. I still have a few more minimaps to do, and there was a bit of a surprise lastnight. A certain experienced mapper sent me a completed NS map that he never released, until now. I've done a run-through and given him a small list of bugs, so hopefully he can have a new version done fairly soon. But i'm looking forward to including it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Hmm, I don't see DarkATi or perhaps even kawak... I still would like to see both their unfinished maps to get finished though...
Stop being so shady about it Stix! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1669781:date=Feb 7 2008, 03:29 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Feb 7 2008, 03:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A certain experienced mapper sent me a completed NS map that he never released, until now. I've done a run-through and given him a small list of bugs, so hopefully he can have a new version done fairly soon. But i'm looking forward to including it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Please tell me it was Mouse. Or Kawak. Or Insane. Actually just please tell us! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Spacer? Mendasp? (OK I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here, Spacer only does combat maps and redhaird would never have finished another map by now).
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1669812:date=Feb 7 2008, 09:52 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Feb 7 2008, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1669812"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please tell me it was Mouse. Or Kawak. Or Insane. Actually just please tell us! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Spacer? Mendasp? (OK I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here, Spacer only does combat maps and redhaird would never have finished another map by now).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well we have quite a list now for this guessing game:
DarkAti Kawak Mouse Spacer Insane Mendasp I think I've seen confused and MrBen around (not posting, but lurking) I could be wrong though :/
Damnit! what have you done Stix! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Hahaha, you all suck <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I'm still waiting to hear back from him, so for now, all I'll tell you, is that the map's name is Ns_Titan <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Recoup (a.k.a. Roger Starks), and a <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=81359&st=0&p=1250222&#entry1250222" target="_blank">link</a>.
My Google powers are strong, old man.
(also I meant Belgarion when I said 'Insane', I don't know why he popped into my head).
Sorry to tell you Crispy, but you're wrong <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Looks like there's two Titan's out there. The only difference is that this one complete.
...lol, i love how DarkATI mentions in that thread how his motto is to 'finish what you begin'. Wheres Vargus, dammit!
Small update. Hulk has been confirmed as part of the Pack, since the crash bug has been fixed.
I also just finished fixing up the Hulk minimaps, so its all good to go.
Left to do for the map pack:
-Waiting on Forgotten Beta 3. No news from the mapper in a little while though; he has quite a few things to fix, so lets hope he can get them done soon enough to make it into the map pack. I'm already delaying it by a week, I don't want to go longer.
-Waiting on a new beta of Titan. It has a small buglist, only one requiring real brushwork changes, and the mapper has been active, so it should be ready in time.
-I've still got to do the minimaps for Source, Rampage, Oasis (if its kept in the pack, unsure right now) and Titan.
Lol, I can't believe how many people use the name Titan. Guess this one will be the first actual release. From the way the mapper mentioned it to me, it sounds like hes been very secretive about it, so maybe there actually is no previous posting.
There's one last thing I wanted to bring up. A lot of people already have some of these maps, especially Rampage, Enceladus, Rust, etc. Because so many maps have gotten new minimaps, it might be best if I included a new naming convention. As in, releasing the maps as ns_rampage_x, ns_enceladus_x, ns_rust_x, etc. I was thinking of using that exact naming extension. It would be easier than a lot of the originals (ns_rust_1_3, ns_source_b34), and would be easily recognizable as the 'best quality version of the map out so far' (with full minimaps).
On one hand, it would require additional downloading. But on the other, it will ensure that people get the minimaps. IMO proper minimaps are so critical to custom maps that it would be necessary.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1670082:date=Feb 10 2008, 08:14 PM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Feb 10 2008, 08:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1670082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But on the other, it will ensure that people get the minimaps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><img src="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/style_images/1/folder_post_icons/icon3.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
If we made maps as "nsmf_" (NS Mapping Forum) would they still load up as normal maps? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I was thinking it'd be better if it was simpler, hence the one letter. Best of course would just be ns_rust, but thats just bad custom mapping.
Maybe "_mp"? I wouldn't foresee another map pack for NS1. Yes there are still a few other maps coming out (even my own Stage), but they could have their own _mp should they be put into another pack. What i mean is, the versions of these maps in the packs are pretty much the finals, or at least for a bunch of them. If another version came out, it could add on the 1 at the end.
We want to keep the extension as condensed as possible. _MP sounds like the best so far.
Another small update. JazzX sent me full minimaps for Rampage, so they're done now too! Woohoo!
Now we're just waiting on a new version of Titan (i gotta do its minimaps after), possibly a new version of Forgotten (if the mapper's alive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />), a potential quick ripent'ing of Hulk, and me to decide whether or not to include Oasis <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Is there anyone reading this thread who runs a server and is likely to host the maps included in this map-pack? I just wanna know where I'm going to be able to play these all once the pack's finished.
Comments
There have been a few other map packs before, but from what I've found, its been a few years since the last. While a few new maps have come out since the last pack, I fully admit that many, if not the majority, of the maps in this pack have been in previous map packs.
There are <i>so many</i> custom NS maps out there, and there are some absolute gems. Its just that they're obscured by a ton of rocks, as well as some too-flawed gems. Part of the goal for this map pack is to put a solid effort into weeding out the top-notch custom classic maps. That of course is a subjective task and I, like most others, definitely have my own taste. But at least when its me sifting through the maps, you know that there won't be any glaring problems with sieges, any silly layouts, any 'technical problems'. I can catch those, at the very least.
<i>side note: talking about technical problems, I'm really worried about ns_hulk_b3. Can anyone please respond in that thread? It's randomly crashed on me at startup, but it may be related to memory and background programs. I think its the best of the list so far, so i'm really hesitant to pull it, especially after I had a full run through with no problems.</i>
So the purpose of this map pack is multi-fold.
(1) Skim off the cream of the crop of the custom classic ns maps
(2) Fix them up as them as I can, which mostly means doing all the Minimaps. A custom map without the vents coloured or the areas labelled only adds to the confusion, and pretty significantly. I've already fixed up about 3/6 minimaps, so that alone will encourage people to enjoy them more.
(3) Pack these maps together into a simple straightforward download
(4) Get these maps actually out into playtime, by posting about this pack on every server forum I can find
Now, I've already done this with every version of Nexus I've released. I'm not doing this pack because of Nexus. I'm doing it because I love custom maps, but its not enough to just run around them by myself checking for problems. With a well-put-together Unofficial Map Pack, there's a far better chance that these maps will see more playtime, which could even lead to long-term playtime. And frankly, if I get to play any of these maps on a full server, I'd feel that I'd succeeded. [some already get played on full servers, but, for instance, I think of this list, only Achio and Nexus have proper minimaps]
A smaller mappack could be better, but from what I've seen over at the FH community (here I go again <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> ). They have released a bunch of mappacks with about 6-10 maps. And the maps are played as well. I just don't buy into this idea that Valve made up about TF2 and a low number of maps. Just look at random game server and see huge varieity of maps they have running.
From what I've tried to get some feedback on me maps is by going into servers or going into server communities (aka forums) and asking if they are interested in running the map for feedback or playtest purpose. There is usually met with a positive response, if they like what they see and read about the map.
But fact is...
<_< >_>
We mappers are overall a lazy bunch of ######s <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--coloro:#696969--><span style="color:#696969"><!--/coloro-->*runs of into the sunset, while overtaking Lucky Luke*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
I'm definitely happy with the interest people and servers have had in Nexus. Of course there are the bad parts, where some people simply claim the map to be s*** or unplayable etc, and then there are those who simply won't learn a new map (especially a complex one like Nexus) and form their opinions as such.
But then theres all the people who have given such praise for it, and each one has made the whole ordeal worth it. Pretty much every active server has loaded it and its been played enough, but there definitely is a general inhibition of many players to try new maps. The majority of players need encouragement to try anything new, and even then its infrequent. But yes, to get Nexus onto these servers has taken a significant enough amount of work on my part. Mainly in posting well.
I'm considering separating the maps into separate packs. Some, like Nexus, Hulk, Achio and maybe Enceladus could be put into a 'Hardcore' map category; maps that have a lot of detail, complexity, and depth. The others could be put into a more 'standard' map category, as they have simpler layouts and such. Its like the divide between Machina and Lucid.
But then again, if the overall file size isnt too too big, I'd prefer to have them all together in one bundle.
They're all great maps, really. A lot of the included maps are often overlooked too quickly by regular players, and i bet the minimaps alone would fix a lot of that issue. If you take a normal buildminimap, the vents just add such insanity to the visible layout, and Labels are one of the best additions to NS ever. Rust and Enceladus, both with minimaps already done for the map pack, have proven to me just how much easier they can be to navigate with proper maps.
Again, out of curiosity, how many servers have added nexus to their mapcycle.txt?
In defense of those reluctant to learn a new map: Many people have limited time to play computer games, and some of these people prefer to spend that time playing something they know well. I'd assume that a lot of the people you find on an average NS server play NS to satisfy the 'play something I know well' mood, and therefore they aren't as open to custom maps. Personally, I know that most of the time I just hit cancel when a custom map starts to download, but other times when I'm at the PC for 4+ hours of NS, I'm totally open to trying a custom map.
Anyway, I know I might appear to be coming across as negative, but I am very much in favour of this project and just wanted to throw out some questions that I felt were important to ask. As I have already said, if nothing more comes out of this other than a convenient one-stop-shop for the best of the custom maps, then it will have been worth the effort, but I do believe that if you pay close attention to what the general community will accept, you can push things a bit further than that.
Kouji: I totally agree with valve. I think they are well aware that out of all the CS maps 3-4 maps are played 80% of the time. I'd rather see them concentrate their efforts to produce a small number of dust2/aztec quality maps, than a lot of sub-par maps. Even looking at TF2, you'll see the huge popularity of servers with '2forts 24x7' and 'dustbowl 24x7' in their title.
Taking this a step further, if you can pick 2-4 really superb maps and get exposure for them, then you not only promote those maps, but the very idea of quality map packs and increase potential interest in a follow on project. Why not call it 'NS Community Map-pack #1' and plan to do another one 10-12 weeks after the first one is released.
I'm saying all of the above as an NSPlayer and as a serverop ( I've been adminning HL servers since 99 ), none of the above opinions have much to do with my experiences as an NS developer.
What may actually be a more effective purpose for this thread is to list maps that are playable. Maps that don't crash or have impossible biases and don't look like boxes and rectangles. And to keep track of which ones actually have active updates.
Incidentally, have you tried getting in contact with any of the mapmakers? I'm sure most would be interested in this, and if Hulk, for example, were to have a fatal crash that could harm its chances of being included, I'm sure Rendy would try to put some time aside for fixing it.
If they could be contacted we could also even sort out some more focused playtests?
There's still a week before the planned release date, so i'll mull over the multi-pack thing. I'm still leaning towards a full pack though... the maps are all quality, and too many have been held back before by bad minimaps.
Commofdoom, heh, Chromo is a real b**** if the marines relocate there, thats for sure. Not nearly as bad as Cargo on Nothing, but still. If it isnt a reloc, Fades tend to rip apart everything in that room, and marines have a pretty balanced siege from Keystone (try placing the cannons on the outside wall). The siege from the other side is a bit brutal, but can make great use of mines, and is great for a ninja PG. And please tell me you've tried a PG in the Infested Hub, or even the Secondary Hub... you can get some awesome Splinter-Cell style through-the-vents hive rushes out of those.
And comm, a lot of these maps havn't been updated in over two years, and likely won't be again. The minimap updates im giving them really really ease the learning curve (and frankly make them far more playable), but if there are actual map problems, we're probably out of luck.
Crispy, i've sent off some PMs, but noone's responded so far. Check the Hulk thread i started... it has the download link I used and everything.
<_< >_>
We mappers are overall a lazy bunch of ######s <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen.
Either that or over excessively compulsive perfectionists who then get burned out and avoid the project of ear of it taking over and running us to the ground.
On that note though, I'm delaying this map pack by at least another week. I still have a few more minimaps to do, and there was a bit of a surprise lastnight. A certain experienced mapper sent me a completed NS map that he never released, until now. I've done a run-through and given him a small list of bugs, so hopefully he can have a new version done fairly soon. But i'm looking forward to including it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Stop being so shady about it Stix! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Spacer? Mendasp? (OK I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here, Spacer only does combat maps and redhaird would never have finished another map by now).
Spacer? Mendasp? (OK I'll admit I'm grasping at straws here, Spacer only does combat maps and redhaird would never have finished another map by now).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well we have quite a list now for this guessing game:
DarkAti
Kawak
Mouse
Spacer
Insane
Mendasp
I think I've seen confused and MrBen around (not posting, but lurking) I could be wrong though :/
Damnit! what have you done Stix! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I'm still waiting to hear back from him, so for now, all I'll tell you, is that the map's name is Ns_Titan <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
My Google powers are strong, old man.
(also I meant Belgarion when I said 'Insane', I don't know why he popped into my head).
Looks like there's two Titan's out there. The only difference is that this one complete.
...lol, i love how DarkATI mentions in that thread how his motto is to 'finish what you begin'. Wheres Vargus, dammit!
I also just finished fixing up the Hulk minimaps, so its all good to go.
Left to do for the map pack:
-Waiting on Forgotten Beta 3. No news from the mapper in a little while though; he has quite a few things to fix, so lets hope he can get them done soon enough to make it into the map pack. I'm already delaying it by a week, I don't want to go longer.
-Waiting on a new beta of Titan. It has a small buglist, only one requiring real brushwork changes, and the mapper has been active, so it should be ready in time.
-I've still got to do the minimaps for Source, Rampage, Oasis (if its kept in the pack, unsure right now) and Titan.
MY GOOGLE POWERS ARE STRONG.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77265" target="_blank">Link.</a> - It's the very bottom post he mentions it.
BUT STILL WRONG!
Lol, I can't believe how many people use the name Titan. Guess this one will be the first actual release. From the way the mapper mentioned it to me, it sounds like hes been very secretive about it, so maybe there actually is no previous posting.
There's one last thing I wanted to bring up. A lot of people already have some of these maps, especially Rampage, Enceladus, Rust, etc. Because so many maps have gotten new minimaps, it might be best if I included a new naming convention. As in, releasing the maps as ns_rampage_x, ns_enceladus_x, ns_rust_x, etc. I was thinking of using that exact naming extension. It would be easier than a lot of the originals (ns_rust_1_3, ns_source_b34), and would be easily recognizable as the 'best quality version of the map out so far' (with full minimaps).
On one hand, it would require additional downloading. But on the other, it will ensure that people get the minimaps. IMO proper minimaps are so critical to custom maps that it would be necessary.
Thoughts?
Maybe "_mp"? I wouldn't foresee another map pack for NS1. Yes there are still a few other maps coming out (even my own Stage), but they could have their own _mp should they be put into another pack. What i mean is, the versions of these maps in the packs are pretty much the finals, or at least for a bunch of them. If another version came out, it could add on the 1 at the end.
We want to keep the extension as condensed as possible. _MP sounds like the best so far.
Now we're just waiting on a new version of Titan (i gotta do its minimaps after), possibly a new version of Forgotten (if the mapper's alive <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />), a potential quick ripent'ing of Hulk, and me to decide whether or not to include Oasis <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
We're getting very close.
Is there anyone reading this thread who runs a server and is likely to host the maps included in this map-pack? I just wanna know where I'm going to be able to play these all once the pack's finished.