One-Player Options
Vman
Join Date: 2007-09-11 Member: 62251Members
Join Date: 2007-09-11 Member: 62251Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Basically Player VS bots</div>Yes im making the dreaded one player thread, but im saying it might help the game at times. A person could play against bots, of any number in which they choose. We all know there are some servers which lag over, or servers that happine to go off-line. Why not have the option to fight against bots? Bots could be used for training as well as having a good time.
I'm sure the community's focus is to keep the game "online" and this shouldent take from it, it would just be like in the server creation options in NS1 where you would choose the map and password. You could host your own server using the maps you can fight against bots and maby have a friend(s) join you, or have yourself with bots fighting bots. AI should not be hard to create, and maby options to keep the game from getting too much for the player to handle.
I feel this option would add to the games playability for some people, if you want to sell the game you should not cross out the possibility of playing by yourself even if it is easy. Sometimes playing online can be stressful when playing under certain circumstances (Pub gods always killing your team and causing you to lose) which would drive people a way from the game (almost made me leave)
All in all it is only more money for Unknown worlds, which every company wants and defiantly what The creators of Natural selection deserve. This whole bot idea is simple and can help create privacy during gaming.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Bot-Options Clarification</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
1:<b> How many bots to fight against:</b>
Three being the minimal and 15 being the max being able to choose the number on each side for aliens and marines. Which could add to the difficulty or reduce it.
2: <b>Difficulty Levels, Bot Intelligence:</b> You could choose from 5 options. Super Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, Hectic which would help decide how strong the bots would be, how they would act, if you place a SC and they notice it would they kill it? or denounce it as harmless (Super easy mode?)
3:<b> Structure/Form limiting:</b>
Have some optional structures, ones that could be used in game or not. For Example... Seiges, you could turn those on or off, but for IP's and the marines comm chair that would most likely not be a option, For aliens you can choose how many hives they can or cannot be built.
(Some idea for bot customization)
4: <b>Small Customization:</b> Players could Name their bots while obviously profane names are marked out, Possibility to customize would be Name or setting their modes. For instance...
Rambo mode: Dose Whatever it wants, usually explores and stumbles upon things and can get resources for its team-mates easily. Although they go alone usually they are very deadly and aware of their surroundings
Team-player Mode: Always with another team member, healing or assisting other Team-Player's, remember... Safety in numbers
Aggressive Mode: This player will specifically go after anyone who kills its team-mates and hunt them down waiting for a moment of revenge. usually able to send out a flurry of swift attacks while doging anything thrown at them.
Defense mode: Stays in the teams base watching for any signs of opposition, usually the one to sneak up on unwary enemy's silently or otherwise.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Problems?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
-More money for Unknownworlds! that's a evil problem D:
I'm sure the community's focus is to keep the game "online" and this shouldent take from it, it would just be like in the server creation options in NS1 where you would choose the map and password. You could host your own server using the maps you can fight against bots and maby have a friend(s) join you, or have yourself with bots fighting bots. AI should not be hard to create, and maby options to keep the game from getting too much for the player to handle.
I feel this option would add to the games playability for some people, if you want to sell the game you should not cross out the possibility of playing by yourself even if it is easy. Sometimes playing online can be stressful when playing under certain circumstances (Pub gods always killing your team and causing you to lose) which would drive people a way from the game (almost made me leave)
All in all it is only more money for Unknown worlds, which every company wants and defiantly what The creators of Natural selection deserve. This whole bot idea is simple and can help create privacy during gaming.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Bot-Options Clarification</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
1:<b> How many bots to fight against:</b>
Three being the minimal and 15 being the max being able to choose the number on each side for aliens and marines. Which could add to the difficulty or reduce it.
2: <b>Difficulty Levels, Bot Intelligence:</b> You could choose from 5 options. Super Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, Hectic which would help decide how strong the bots would be, how they would act, if you place a SC and they notice it would they kill it? or denounce it as harmless (Super easy mode?)
3:<b> Structure/Form limiting:</b>
Have some optional structures, ones that could be used in game or not. For Example... Seiges, you could turn those on or off, but for IP's and the marines comm chair that would most likely not be a option, For aliens you can choose how many hives they can or cannot be built.
(Some idea for bot customization)
4: <b>Small Customization:</b> Players could Name their bots while obviously profane names are marked out, Possibility to customize would be Name or setting their modes. For instance...
Rambo mode: Dose Whatever it wants, usually explores and stumbles upon things and can get resources for its team-mates easily. Although they go alone usually they are very deadly and aware of their surroundings
Team-player Mode: Always with another team member, healing or assisting other Team-Player's, remember... Safety in numbers
Aggressive Mode: This player will specifically go after anyone who kills its team-mates and hunt them down waiting for a moment of revenge. usually able to send out a flurry of swift attacks while doging anything thrown at them.
Defense mode: Stays in the teams base watching for any signs of opposition, usually the one to sneak up on unwary enemy's silently or otherwise.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>Problems?</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
-More money for Unknownworlds! that's a evil problem D:
Comments
Sir, im going to sound as nice as i can. It really makes me mad when people post and they dont read the first topic. But i guess some people aren't into reading, Either way you did not get the main idea of my post it seems...
My post was about a One-player bot mode use-able online and off line. If you want more information Harhar read the "bot-option clarification" and you should have all the information you need to post on topic.
<!--quoteo(post=1674520:date=Mar 28 2008, 10:20 AM:name=Crowe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crowe @ Mar 28 2008, 10:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674520"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm pretty sure they said in a podcast that there was going to be a single player "bot" type mode, but i think its going to be more like CS:S's bot mode, just the game really, no "modes".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They did? (Do you remember which podcast#?) Whats the CS:S bot mode like? I never really played it. (too much NS lol) If they do i hope the options that i stated cross their minds, it could make bot mode more entertaining and player friendly.
Hell yes.
I remember playing bots on CS 1.5, sometimes I'd give them all knives and keep a sniper rifle for myself; they'd run around like idiots and I would shoot them. Stupid, easy, mindless fun. Good times.
Vman: You're wrong. He <b>did</b> get the idea of the post. It's you that didn't get his argument. His argument is the obvious and much-used argument against any sort of extension to the 'core' of NS2 (the online multiplayer part, one mode) - it takes up the developers' time and resources, neither of which they have in plenty.
Also,
<!--QuoteBegin-unknownworlds/ns2 About section+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(unknownworlds/ns2 About section)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Instant Gratification</b>
Rated maps and powerful matchmaking allow you to play with people of any skill level. Play on servers from Easy to Expert or compete in tournaments. Play on the Internet, on a LAN or offline with any number of players. Clever bots will do the rest.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(Also, 'just noticed that the skill-ranked server idea was already being considered as one of their targets.)
But either way im looking forward to a "Mild" challenge atleast, some programed AI, or a choice to program it yourself in a easy(ish) way
<b>vote <!--coloro:#00DD00--><span style="color:#00DD00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
Im very in favour of bots, if i hadnt played ns1, and ns2 didnt have bots i probs wouldnt buy it. And that goes for pretty much any other online game. I dont want a game that demands i have a good quality internet connection all the time because i often dont. I expect the primary game focus to be online play of course but i think its unfair to assume that all players can be online all the time.
As an additional idea for a single-player option... give players that are playing a single-player game 'god' abilities (or rather, options). They can go (or distribute) any life-form they want, get (or distribute) any upgrades they want, get (or distribute) any equipment they want, etc - foregoing time, research, resource etc considerations. You could even have 'classic cheats', eg. godmode (with a damage counter that starts at 0 and counts UP). Of course you'd keep these options to <b>single-player only</b>.
- Rush mode -on/off ( mean 1 Hive, and 1 CC is invulnerable )
- Rush mode -on/off ( mean 1 Hive, and 1 CC is invulnerable )<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea, gestapo styled spawn camping.
When I made my first map, I couldn't really play it with bots because everytime I created a server and tried to do something on the marine side with a downloaded bot addon, my game would crash. So I had to figure it was alright and release it only to find that it was too marine sided.
Does HatlabuFarkas' idea come under any of these, do you think?
When I made my first map, I couldn't really play it with bots because everytime I created a server and tried to do something on the marine side with a downloaded bot addon, my game would crash. So I had to figure it was alright and release it only to find that it was too marine sided.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another great reason for <i>official release</i> bots...
It's not as if it couldn't be community updated with better waypoint files. Everybody who has dealt with bots can tell you that the better the waypoint file, the better the bots will be able to play. Heck if you make the bot AI .cfg configurable then server admins and map makers could change that around as needed. Even better, allow the waypoints to denote a location's priority. (better flags)
I remember when I was on the foxbot team (talking ol' TFC) privileged to help in waypointing and proof-reading source code. One of the annoying things I clearly remember was often wishing there was a more streamline means of waypointing and a better system of what I would like to tell the bot to do at that waypoint. If you've ever done any Whichbot waypointing you would also know what I'm talking about as well. (need I mention the spinning / dancing gorge glitch?)
Plus with plugins, there limited or no real-world, thorough testing prior to a public release. Again if I use whichbots again, the default .cfg that affects the priorities of structures (unless it's finally been fixed) doesn't take the real game priorities into account:
#1. Kill all enemies (means taking out their spawn, then hunting down the survivors)
#2. Cap RTs, deny enemy RTs (resource control also means map control and technology & structures)
I've yet to see a decent HL or Source multiplayer game with a professional bot AI. Everything is done as a plugin patchwork... NS2 deserves something better.
(you know... if it's good enough, it could be used to help train players and even as an advertisement point in selling the game!)
Um not really, an AI that can fight well in a room is one thing, but to travel around a map, any good AI is going to need to know the best path (not just which ever is the shortest) and important junctions. The waypoints are critical because they tell the AI vital location specific data. Can the AI generate more waypoints on the fly to smooth the path? Of course, in fact many professional AI's do just that. (i.e.: just take the old Warcraft III computer player)
The best of all would if you could have map entity scripted AI variations. (i.e.: bots go a different path when the airlock is opened instead of humping the closed doors and spinning like tops)
Remember it's a computer game AI, not an actual player. It can only pseudo-reason by evaluating conditionals and is not truly creative. You have to give it data to evaluate priorities and find it way to locations (and know what to do where like not standing under a descending platform, in between a closing door, wallwalk up here if you are skulk, fly from here to here if you are a lerk, etc.)
The ideal TSA marine AI in my mind is one that follows commander waypoints just like units in Warcraft III follow right-click (or attack-move-to, or patrol) orders.
The ideal Kharaa alien AI in my mind is a greatly improved Whichbot that can follow different waypoints and has completely separate code objects for each class's behaviors, plus allows from some user-input. (i.e.: hey stupid that's a mine field, go recon and don't rush the turret farm incessantly, hit & run instead of hit & get trapped / stay until you die, attack electrified structures stupidly, etc.)
...in fact both bots and players could benefit from a recon/assault mode indicator. Hmm...
There's a massive void in need of improvement, but I love designing and tweaking AI's and I know I'm not the only one. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Okay, well this is what I was trying to get at. An AI that could stand-alone, basically. Sorry for the poor explanation.