Player Sizes
schkorpio
I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
I can mspaint Join Date: 2003-05-23 Member: 16635Members
<div class="IPBDescription">players aren't squares!</div>Its true, player's aren't squares (when viewed from the top), most humanoid player models are actually rectangular in shape. SO?
Well, so I think hitbox or detection box should be a rectangular prism also.
This means that if strafing (walking sideways), a player can fit into spaces that you normally can't when walking forwards, because while strafing you are thinner, roughly 1/2 as wide.
Example:
TOP VIEW OF A HALLWAY WITH 1 PLAYER (GREEN) and TWO GREY CRATES
In figure 1 the player does not fit because the shoulders are too wide.
In figure 2 the player is walking sideways and does fit.
<img src="http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2683/skinnyplayerspp1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The game could detect that the player is in a tight spot, and it could automatically lower the gun, and even turn the player's head in the direction of travel (or perhaps not to add to suspense).
This would have a similar affect to what vents have done for the game - allowing only certain types of players through certain areas, by moving in a certain way = adding to the gameplay and as well as the control of what mappers have to make the levels more interesting.
Perhaps a HA or ONOS wouldnt fit through this gap, while a light armour marine, or a skulk could easily fit. But perhaps the HA could push the crate, and the onos could even destroy it, making even more gameplay options for a level.
e.g. the marines think they are safer behind some crates, and then get HA to manouver teh crates to their advantage, then later an onos would burst through the crates and marines would need to different defensive approach.
Of course this could mean some really tight and scary vents and gaps, crannies and crevices!
Maybe gorges would be too fat also hehe.
Well, so I think hitbox or detection box should be a rectangular prism also.
This means that if strafing (walking sideways), a player can fit into spaces that you normally can't when walking forwards, because while strafing you are thinner, roughly 1/2 as wide.
Example:
TOP VIEW OF A HALLWAY WITH 1 PLAYER (GREEN) and TWO GREY CRATES
In figure 1 the player does not fit because the shoulders are too wide.
In figure 2 the player is walking sideways and does fit.
<img src="http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2683/skinnyplayerspp1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The game could detect that the player is in a tight spot, and it could automatically lower the gun, and even turn the player's head in the direction of travel (or perhaps not to add to suspense).
This would have a similar affect to what vents have done for the game - allowing only certain types of players through certain areas, by moving in a certain way = adding to the gameplay and as well as the control of what mappers have to make the levels more interesting.
Perhaps a HA or ONOS wouldnt fit through this gap, while a light armour marine, or a skulk could easily fit. But perhaps the HA could push the crate, and the onos could even destroy it, making even more gameplay options for a level.
e.g. the marines think they are safer behind some crates, and then get HA to manouver teh crates to their advantage, then later an onos would burst through the crates and marines would need to different defensive approach.
Of course this could mean some really tight and scary vents and gaps, crannies and crevices!
Maybe gorges would be too fat also hehe.
Comments
It does add to realism though...but if I had to vote yes or no on it, I would say yes.
<!--quoteo(post=1678011:date=May 8 2008, 05:42 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ May 8 2008, 05:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678011"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The game could detect that the player is in a tight spot, and it could automatically lower the gun, and even turn the player's head in the direction of travel (or perhaps not to add to suspense).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would lower the gun, but still allow players to move their head left and right around 180 degrees (by moving the mouse). Left and right strafe keys would move you along the gap.
<!--quoteo(post=1678019:date=May 8 2008, 09:30 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ May 8 2008, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1678019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What new and exciting gameplay does this bring to the table? Clipping into walls by turning when you're in the middle of the crevice?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing really honestly.
well thats not really a fair question, cause you could ask that to everyone thats posted in this forum, and tbh you can't expect every idea to be revolutionary otherwise NS wouldn't be NS if it kept being changed. its mearly an enchancement
everything mentioned in the 2nd part of the post (under the pic) is what it brings - summing up - it adds variety, to the way levels are set out, and how you can approach things, it brings many of the same things as a vent does - i.e. perhaps its a shortcut, but its also more dangerous or perhaps its a way to filter what goes where for balancing sake.
you wouldnt be able to turn your body if you are in a crevice, it would turn your head as mentioned by Hari
What ever happened to unique sides?
"The players have nothing to loose but their hit boxes" Karl Max on game play
but on the other hand i agree with bcseph and the others that this may make the marines to mobile and take up dev time with no major game play additions to the game.
im sure you dont understand how games work every player has a hitbox and this hitbox determines how the player can be shot/clawed and where they can move so all the devs would have to do is to make a rectangular hitbox instead of a square one
Oh well, you might take that approach too, but people were talking about automatically lowering guns and such. In addition, I doubt there's a code ready for preventing the player from turning, so he'd most likely end up halfway inside the wall if he turns and repositions the box. It would also look kinda silly if marines just strafed into narrow places like it was just an open corridor they're strafing in. Without the code you'd be strafing blind, since you would have to face the wall to progress. It would be difficult to enter the tights spots, since you just strafe in them. You could also turn around and shoot just like normal although you shouldn't be able to raise your gun in such cramped space, unless there's a code for preventing that. In addition to all those, it would still look unpolished if it was done just by strafing to the target. A starting hl1 mod might get away with that, but not the ns of nowadays and not the commercial product coming up.
Oh and the collision box or whatever, and the hitbox aren't probably the same either. Otherwise fades couldn't slip into spaces they do now. Actually, I'd appreciate if someone explained the methods the game uses for hit and movement detection, I'm kinda interested in such nowadays.
Well, so I think hitbox or detection box should be a rectangular prism also.
This means that if strafing (walking sideways), a player can fit into spaces that you normally can't when walking forwards, because while strafing you are thinner, roughly 1/2 as wide.
Example:
TOP VIEW OF A HALLWAY WITH 1 PLAYER (GREEN) and TWO GREY CRATES
In figure 1 the player does not fit because the shoulders are too wide.
In figure 2 the player is walking sideways and does fit.
<img src="http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/2683/skinnyplayerspp1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The game could detect that the player is in a tight spot, and it could automatically lower the gun, and even turn the player's head in the direction of travel (or perhaps not to add to suspense).
This would have a similar affect to what vents have done for the game - allowing only certain types of players through certain areas, by moving in a certain way = adding to the gameplay and as well as the control of what mappers have to make the levels more interesting.
Perhaps a HA or ONOS wouldnt fit through this gap, while a light armour marine, or a skulk could easily fit. But perhaps the HA could push the crate, and the onos could even destroy it, making even more gameplay options for a level.
e.g. the marines think they are safer behind some crates, and then get HA to manouver teh crates to their advantage, then later an onos would burst through the crates and marines would need to different defensive approach.
Of course this could mean some really tight and scary vents and gaps, crannies and crevices!
Maybe gorges would be too fat also hehe.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, understand that hitboxes and clipboxes generally are not the same thing. You are talking about clipboxes.
It is important to keep clipboxes relatively simple, since that's what the server is calculating legal client collision data with.
(if you are getting confused think clipping in terms of the pegs & block game toddlers play with. If the players' clipboxes are the pegs, then the block they fit through is the world's/map's clipping planes. If you turn off gravity and world clipping planes, then you can "noclip" through w-polys any direction you wish.)
NS v3.2 has done a fantastic job with fixing the hitboxes so they fit the models better, but I agree that the player clipboxes have room for improvement so they also fit the model better.
It is important they can still be described in just 8 vertices and 1 origin as 3D points (x,y,z), but I agree that having the Z planes squared is not as accurate to the model as it could be.
Therefore this idea says to me that we keep the 9 3D points (27 integers total times the number of players per server times update rate(s)), to keep the data the server needs to process and the bandwidth & QoS requirements low, but with improve the values of the rectangular prisms so the fit the model (and variants) better?
GREAT IDEA!
<b>vote <!--coloro:#00CC00--><span style="color:#00CC00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
What ever happened to unique sides?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a joke, right? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
I guess Marines aren't allowed to use vents, either...
Y'know, maybe, marines shouldn't even move around 'cos that would make them too mobile and alien-like. I have a brilliant idea. Let's just stick everyone into stationary turrets.
I guess Marines aren't allowed to use vents, either...
Y'know, maybe, marines shouldn't even move around 'cos that would make them too mobile and alien-like. I have a brilliant idea. Let's just stick everyone into stationary turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ns2 tower defence mod <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
However I would agree on making humans and skulks and fades all different sizes to limit who can go where.
Same thing with gun lowering, it's realistic looking but not realistic playing. If a turn around real fast near a wall, the chance I'd swing my gun up then back down is slim to none. I'd be more likly to move my body out of the way and continue turning the gun in one smooth direction. The only time someone wouldn't be able to do that would be in the tight space e.g. two close walls. True you could not turn fast or easily but this would be so cumberson and awkward in a fps that it would ruin the game.
Heres why. If I need to turn around in a tight space between two walls I would swing my gun around I would have to bring it either up and over my head or along side my body pointing towards the ground. In real life neither movment is difficult to do but in an fps any turning or aiming involving looking straight up or down because frustatingly unrealistic Because you can just look up and flip to the other side, you have to look up then rotate your view, then come back down. You essentially taking what is one fluid motion in real life and breaking into 3 jaggady motions. Case in point, take the old 2.0 lerk with the old flight system and spikes(no bite in this version). The lerk in this version could hover in one spot and move very slowly. I used to hover above peoples heads and spike them to death unscratched. This includes top clanners in heavy armor with an HMG. Looking up and rotating ones view accuratly is EXTREAMLY difficult for any player (solo only because obviously I would be a sitting duck if he had a partner standing by him. This mostly has to do with you can't aim behind your head without turning and once looking up turning and movment becomes disorientating. Try it. Look up as far as you can, now pretend to go shoot something and inch behind you and 1 inch to the left without moving you footing. Not that easy. Its even harder when you don't even know your at your maximun look up. Now you might be able to start doing this fluidly if you know its coming but for those who don't believe the abnormal aweward movment involved take note of the diction the mouse moves.
When facing a wall shooting up and to the left you will move your mouse...well... up and to the left. However
when facing straight up the cieling and trying to aim up and the the left you actually have to move the mouse down and to the left in addition to having to rotate more than looking foward.
Basically your sacrificing realisitc fluid motion for realistic visuals. Now using advances animations that could be possible to fluidly animate dynamically in fashion that would look fluid in 99% of situations would be cool, but actually limiting the player would not be.
Now if someone redid the fps engine to allowing all direction turning with matching animations this would be a different story. This does exist but usually only in games with static models such as forsaken.
Vote <!--coloro:#00FF00--><span style="color:#00FF00"><!--/coloro-->YES<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> , but the MARINE cannot have to see around. ( maybe The Mouse is "<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->Locked<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->", and <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->UNABLE<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> to use a gun ? )
( edited: english grammar. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> okay my english is never be go0d <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> )
No way. You think that's a good idea now, but when you get your ankles bitten by skulks several times, never catching a glance at them, you won't like it.