You know you need to work on your time management skills when you consciously think: "I'll go check out the NS forums and see if there are any more <u>NS is Dead</u> threads."
I haven't posted anything here in years, so take anything said with a grain of salt.
I think the game has lived on pretty well all these years. Its based off an old quake engine several years old and its very dated. The models (while based on the HL1 engine are AWESOME) are old and blocky and the textures not as crisp and shiny as new games. Despite ALL these issues ... it's the <b>THIRD</b> most played mod being tracked by Valve (not including CS/DOD/TF2 as they are their own stand alone games now.) <a href="http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats" target="_blank">http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats</a> - click the bottom link and see for yourself. Beating out Fortress Forever, which was <i>supposed</i> to be TF going back to its 'roots'. Beating out Insurgency - a mod a number of years in the making. PVK2, Specialists, Action HL - even beating the new DOD beta <b>just</b> released. 14.459 million player minutes per month, 173 server and 335 players as of this writing. To say a game that is this old to have these numbers, beating out mods now on the Source engine? Pft.
I think the biggest issue with NS (at least back when I was still playing, as I haven't logged in since I last posted here, who knows when) is that there are too many versions that have devided the community. There was the released version, a beta version, the new combat mode and the server mods. I will always firmly believe that the decrease in any game, especially to HL games are because of server mods. They are too inconsistent. Unless you find a server that you like and will forever use in the future - you never know what kind of dumb settings some admin set his server on. You say ... just join another server you whiner. Well, what happens when 10 out of 13 servers tried contain a mod you don't like/want to play with? Are you going to continue to waste time trying to find a server to play on or just move onto another game where you don't have to deal with it? Anyway. I went off on a rant, is a peeve of mine, sorry. There are just too many versions of the game out there. Truth be told, the action in classic is pretty damn slow (unless its increased quite a bit since I've tried.) Some times I would just rather play and blast some aliens. Combat served this purpose well, but divided the community imo. I started preferring to play Combat and then, would only play it. Not that there is anything wrong with that in itself, but it 'took' another player away from Classic. Some times, I just don't want to have to build up a base, or deal with an idiot commander or be forced to rely on team mates who don't know which way is up.
Despite all of this, it is STILL ranked #3 in HL/Source mods. I bet you anything FF would love to pull NS numbers. I anticipate with NS2's release, you will see a huge influx of people back to the 'franchise'. NS simply ported to Source would be enough to bring a large number of people back to it, myself included. I appreciate what Flayra is doing and have complete faith in his decisions. He's been in the field for a number of years and has a great understanding of what gamers are and the games they like - he is one! I'm convinced that mofo spent too much time in game with us and working on NS that would have been better spent .. oh, sleeping or having a job. I tell you, takes guts to live off your savings with no income to do what you love. I'd love nothing more than to work with him on similar projects with him, unfortunately I'm not the best with schedules and have responsibilities keeping me in Omaha. Not to mention, I doubt he want's to hear me screaming into the mic there is a Skulk behind him and to quit sucking. XD
NS2 will rock you f'n socks and will bring a large number of people back. Even if it continues on in another name or slightly different concept, every thing you love about NS will come through NS2 - The man loves his game too much for it not to.
NS died because: 1. Its an old mod. Yes I realize other mods have become successful and are still extremely popular today but I feel one of the contributors to that was that they went retail. 2. Because its an old mod and many players have played the game since its initial release, there comes a point in time, like with ALL games, that you get bored with it - everything becomes monotonous. When you've played your 1337th siege map... things get kind of stale.
NS2 isn't going to 'solve' the problem of NS dying/dead... at least not for awhile. Think of NS2 as a new game. Most susscessful games don't advertise or release actual media until they have something concrete, which only happens after about the 2nd year of development. When game companies are creating a game, they usually have adequate funding to continue development, hire artists, etc. Unknown Worlds didn't really have that kind of funding until recently. They didn't even have a building where they could all come together on a work day and work hardcore on their projects.
Now that they have funding, a building and a team... think of the development start date as right now and prepare yourself for a years wait at least.
if there would be so many players as you say, it wouldnt take 30-60 minutes to find an oponent for a pcw (scrim if you say so, or war). servers are populated by dumb idiots who spams OC under the hive, no comm material players, no team play at all.
There are still players and servers in NS. But when we said NS is dead, we first talk about the the community that keeps playing together, and know each other. Example like on the NS websites, forums, PCW-s, ventrilo, TS, leagues. We runing an NS website since NS started. The hungarian NS community was always quite small, but there where a big "life" on the site and servers for about the middle of the 3(beta's)(steam). People used the forums, read the NS news, wrote comments, played on the servers. Now the site is empty, there is not a single comment for NS2 new"s". Servers empty too. No clans, no wars. We missing all these.
At the moment because there are no matches, clans, and NS/NS2 news, I can't write any news on the site. And even if I can write something, maybe no one is read it, and there are no comments, discussions for sure.
I see the statistics on the site, there are still some NS downloader and visitor. But they don't show a life sign, we don't know them.
I can play NS if I want, I can find a server. But it's not tha same anymore.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1680491:date=Jun 7 2008, 09:41 PM:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Silver_Fox @ Jun 7 2008, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1680491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><Optimism><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well that was refreshing. Thanks for the dose of realism.
<!--quoteo(post=1679844:date=May 31 2008, 03:20 AM:name=Drfuzzy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drfuzzy @ May 31 2008, 03:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1679844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->From experience of being in many other communities, 2.0 brought the outside in. It scared off all the people who loved the tight knit community, and the devs traded it for a large fanbase that jumps from one game to the other when they get bored. The forums died, and it killed pretty much the hub of what was left of the modding community that kept the servers fresh, and now with no publicity to the outside theres no newcomers to keep the community alive.
That and many of the people that were apart of this community back in the beginning were in high school, much has changed. I only get on late at night when i get off work, conveniently when the server goes under maintenance.
I've always missed 1.04, the servers were unbeatable. I miss playing with the same 10-20 people every night on the same servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy ###### Dr. Fuzzy, still spraying DOOM pics on NS maps <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Well, yeah I remember REAL NS back in the 1.0x, buggy, unbalanced, and well small player base. Besides those bugs it happend to be the best NS I have ever played in my life. Yes the games ranged from 3-8 hours in length with some commanders going insane. I remember it vividly, epic battles for parts of the map and when OC chambers and turrets actually accomplished something. When Marine start would be destroyed and comm sent you out with a jp and welder and medded you to full to prevent SOF; gaining a moral vicotory by welding a hive or two down while the aliens tryed to find you. This is real NS, logging onto teamkindred NS server and sein the same people every ######in night, havin a good game and communicating how we were going to win. In the older versions any team could win at any time regardless of the situation. When 2.0 came out I quit NS after 2 months of it. Hated what they had done to my once favorite game. Yeah I know long games arent suitable for competitive players, but hey look what happend, combat came out, player base surged. Many of the loyal fans remained, and all the players gained from the surge mainly left, and then "some" of the original core remain. I installed the latest version of NS the other day and it was boring, since games only last 15 mins maps are repeated all the time.
Hi i used to play this game as homeless | xes. Reasons why this game is not as fun as it was:
The game mechanics have changed from its original playstyle. It's much faster now. I'm guessing that as version numbers went up, round times have gone down. This means less room for mistakes.
De-emphasis of teams, more emphasis on the individuals (see:Combat, Fades, Res for kills)
More fps elements over time, less rts.
Loss of effective alien defenses. Marines get electrified buildings, turrets that can kill, mines. Aliens get smaller buildings, less damage on OC's. Why can a marine just jump over an OC? I never really understood how that helped gameplay. Alien resources are so much more important that marine resources, because they are individually apportioned.
Loss of atmosphere, maps should be fun to play on. Well lit big hallways do not induce fear in marines. (see: veil)
Building placement restrictions. Previously, marines could build bases in very tight quarters, but now that's not possible. More static building placement doesn't reward creative thinking.
Strategies. In order for the game to remain fun and competitive, there need to be more than just a couple of strats that work. The gameplay needs to be deep enough that the metagame is constantly evolving. (see: starcraft)
Unfortunately, that is not the case any longer. The dev team focused on making the game more "fun" not more playable. Adding new game types and features is great, but if the commander UI is still hard and irritating to use, how does that encourage the new players to step up?
Natural selection was a deep, involving game. The early maps had that special "Oh ######" factor. The redesigned maps do not. Hera comes to mind. As time progressed, the developers added more and more restrictions to as what you could do. This reduced the number of possible playmoves that you could make, in turn increasing the monotony of the game.
Not enough updates. NS did have a huge, active player community. I remember that the forums used to be full of life. So many suggestion threads. A lot of good ones. Too few were tried. As the development cycle stagnated, players began to leave. Remember, i'm not blaming anyone, i'm just saying what i see. As the community began to dwindle, pushing out more updates would have brought them back. NS is still being developed, why close playtests to a select few? Why not let everyone play, and let everyone have a say, instead of releases being few and far between, a weekly update with different features would have kept interest.
edit: Slippery slope. I forgot about this one. If your team is losing, you're probably going to lose, especially on the alien side. The early game is so crucial, it sets the tone for the entire game. Those crazy amazing comebacks are much less likely now. Not as fun. (Contributing to this: MT, SOF)
I haven't played in a long time, but those were the reasons why i ended up leaving and not coming back. It's unfortunate that the situation seems to remain unchanged.
If ppl wanted to do something about "why NS is dead and how we can revive it" they would have done somthing by now its been 6 years and not S*** has happend face it NS is gone unless someone is willing to go the extra 10 miles. Frankly people who would give money to revive NS have already and thats just not enough ppl NS is a good game and I still play it on classic where i can (<Bad> and gun server are usually fine). If you want NS back well start praying for a miracle my friends. :/ or else move on.
<!--quoteo(post=1682097:date=Jun 27 2008, 06:50 PM:name=xes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xes @ Jun 27 2008, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682097"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi i used to play this game as homeless | xes. Reasons why this game is not as fun as it was:
The game mechanics have changed from its original playstyle. It's much faster now. I'm guessing that as version numbers went up, round times have gone down. This means less room for mistakes.
De-emphasis of teams, more emphasis on the individuals (see:Combat, Fades, Res for kills)
More fps elements over time, less rts.
Loss of effective alien defenses. Marines get electrified buildings, turrets that can kill, mines. Aliens get smaller buildings, less damage on OC's. Why can a marine just jump over an OC? I never really understood how that helped gameplay. Alien resources are so much more important that marine resources, because they are individually apportioned.
Loss of atmosphere, maps should be fun to play on. Well lit big hallways do not induce fear in marines. (see: veil)
Building placement restrictions. Previously, marines could build bases in very tight quarters, but now that's not possible. More static building placement doesn't reward creative thinking.
Strategies. In order for the game to remain fun and competitive, there need to be more than just a couple of strats that work. The gameplay needs to be deep enough that the metagame is constantly evolving. (see: starcraft)
Unfortunately, that is not the case any longer. The dev team focused on making the game more "fun" not more playable. Adding new game types and features is great, but if the commander UI is still hard and irritating to use, how does that encourage the new players to step up?
Natural selection was a deep, involving game. The early maps had that special "Oh ######" factor. The redesigned maps do not. Hera comes to mind. As time progressed, the developers added more and more restrictions to as what you could do. This reduced the number of possible playmoves that you could make, in turn increasing the monotony of the game.
Not enough updates. NS did have a huge, active player community. I remember that the forums used to be full of life. So many suggestion threads. A lot of good ones. Too few were tried. As the development cycle stagnated, players began to leave. Remember, i'm not blaming anyone, i'm just saying what i see. As the community began to dwindle, pushing out more updates would have brought them back. NS is still being developed, why close playtests to a select few? Why not let everyone play, and let everyone have a say, instead of releases being few and far between, a weekly update with different features would have kept interest.
edit: Slippery slope. I forgot about this one. If your team is losing, you're probably going to lose, especially on the alien side. The early game is so crucial, it sets the tone for the entire game. Those crazy amazing comebacks are much less likely now. Not as fun. (Contributing to this: MT, SOF)
I haven't played in a long time, but those were the reasons why i ended up leaving and not coming back. It's unfortunate that the situation seems to remain unchanged.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the main strategy here ? seriously Flayra & Devs...
Do you really think that leaving the NS1 Community dead is a good idea ?
If I'm not mistaken, NS2 won't be a reality in less than 1.5 years at least... One year and a half left in the cold could be a devastating blow to the community. Your followers, the early adopters of NS2... will you forget about them ?
what are your plans to revive or conserve this community ?
An official word on this would be really nice, War.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
I agree on basicly everything aswell. I am still here in hope it ever goes back even the slightest to 1.04 kind of NS. But it went downhill on playstyle. completely
not that 2.x/3.x do not have good things. They sure do. But I adored 1.04. I just like 2.x+. On gameplay and fun 1.04 was better (except for rushes)
Everyone sounds like stay at home moms Look, things dont look/get better with age, its just down hill after a certain point. Just ask any married couple.
Either accept things the way they are and enjoy the ride or move on.
I still find NS (Classic) more fun than TF2. Here is my comparison between the two:
TF2 has 9 player classes. Apart from the ones that are too rubbish to be worth playing as (Heavy), I think I learnt how to be 'better than average' to 'pretty good' at all of them in under 6 months. It has few maps and many have a vary similar layout. All are linear with unidirectional flow in each direction, like a glorified football pitch instead of a battlefield with multiple fronts and sorties into enemy teritory.
In NS it's taken me years and years to learn (to be pretty good at) the weapons and especially the Alien classes. Only these past 18 months have I felt confident enough to go Fade or Lerk early in a round and to have the team count on me to do a good job. There is still more for me to learn in NS, even though I have played a round on every map with every conceivable winnable strategy from both teams. Occasionally I'll go Commander if there aren't too many serious players about and try to learn to play that a bit better (not because 'serious' players are harder to work with, but because the margins for error are much tighter as Commander; ~50% success rate so far, though). The game allows relocation, meaning absolute multidirectional flow through each map's web-like layout. <b>No two maps are the same, even broadly speaking.</b> Each map has a different area that has strategic prominance: a double res room, Cargo, Internal Access/Temperature Control, Cold Turn, the middle Hive; there are an insane amount of strategies that form variations of holding or suppressing these key areas.
This is why people are still playing NS - because it has depth where TF2 mostly has options. Without Valve's updates it would be interesting to see the falloff of TF2. I think it would be more severe than most people would imagine. 6 years down the line don't expect TF2 to be the relative success story that NS has been.
i dont know how many times did i hear ppl saying when i tried to call them to play NS, that they actually like the gameplay but the graphics sucks because its only HL1 engine. im not sure either about how many ppl would join NS if it would be on source engine, and i also dont know how much time would it take to a fast-port version to the HL2 engine, so heres my guess: make a beta-ns:source until u guys finish ns2 because its pretty slow, and im guessing an NS:Source would be much faster to develop, so if u guys are splitted into 2 teams (as i think you do), group A does NS:Source, group B does the NS1 stuff, like u did in the final 3.2. the NS1 crew could be working on NS:Source.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1682392:date=Jul 2 2008, 06:31 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Jul 2 2008, 06:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is why people are still playing NS - <b>because it has depth where TF2 mostly has options</b>. Without Valve's updates it would be interesting to see the falloff of TF2. I think it would be more severe than most people would imagine. 6 years down the line don't expect TF2 to be the relative success story that NS has been.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree. I was expecting there to be more depth in the interactions between the options, but it doesn't seem to actually work out that way beyond a few specific pairings. To compare it to fighting games, it's like the difference between Marvel vs. Capcom and Guilty Gear. Both are valid approaches but the "option" way requires for there to be a LOT of viable options. I feel like right now Valve is throwing spaghetti against the wall with TF2. They add options and sees what sticks and actually make it a better game. Once all of the classes have their updates the game will probably be better competitively, but not everything will be useful.
NS's approach works better for a smaller company since they'll plan to make every feature possible have depth(if we're going by NS1) rather than throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing which strats/abilities rise to the top.
NS is dead because the committed players have lost interest or probably moved on with life. With most games a new player base is established gradually while the old group loses interest (DoD original to DoD:S for example, I don't know many people from the original on source right now, except maybe a few TxM guys) . But with NS, it's not a game where your average n00b could come on and enjoy themselves, there is a sort of learning curve/time period for it to become fun. NS is one of the most in depth FPS's I've ever played and it tailors to a specific audience because it's not just a mindless shooter and it loses curb appeal because it is so different.
I think any hopes of the dev team messing with NS are in vain and I think they should just focus on NS:S. The community is what it is and chances of the community coming back are slim imo. I'm happy as long as G4B2S is still online.
P.S.
does anyone enjoy TF2 more than TFC? Whenever I play TF2 I find myself hating it and wishing I was playing TFC.
<!--quoteo(post=1682493:date=Jul 4 2008, 02:20 AM:name=H@zard)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(H@zard @ Jul 4 2008, 02:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->does anyone enjoy TF2 more than TFC? Whenever I play TF2 I find myself hating it and wishing I was playing TFC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->They're enjoyable in different ways.
In TF2 I can genuinely have fun playing as any different class (e4xcept the Heavy). I'll shift from class to class depending on what's needed. In TFC I only really played Engy, Sniper, Heavy and occasionally Soldier and Demo.
In TFC I could easily end up playing for more than 6 hours at a time. In TF2 I'll get bored after 2 most of the time, because most of the maps are very similar in layout and gameplay and they are designed to favour the winning team and reduce the chances of a comeback.
TFC was more frenetic. It was faster and there was a lot going on. Instant respawn meant it wasn't a big problem if you died to a grenade, because making your way through the spam was a reward in itself. TF2 is slower-paced and requires more teamwork.
TFC was more serious, most players were playing to win, not playing to get comedy kills or achievements; but it also lacked the character that TF2 oozes from almost every pore.
Finally, TF2 is more important for games overall, because of how many people totally new to games it has introduced.
It has been ages since i posted on these forums. Reading up in here is like a stroll down memory lane... Lots of good stuff comes to mind and a few of the headahes i had from running a server back in the days...
Well sadly enough, i have to lean with the pessimistic opinions... I understand how difficult it is getting a project like this completed, with all the various issues and obstacles that are encounterd down the road. Now i wish nothing but success for the NS team, this was by far one of the best mods i had ever played and i still class it as the best among the RTS meets FPS genre. I had played a few of the other types but they were pitiful in comparison. I truly an anxious to play this game once more.
I have to give credit to the devs for all the hard work and efforts that has gone into NS and what's been put into NS2. It's hard work and ungratifying at times. Nontheless i cant help but feel a sense of urgency... I recall NS being released late in HL1's lifespan if you will. HL1 was first released back in 98, i remember running a cs beta 1 server, then 3 and so on until valve acquired it and it grew in popularity. Along with it came all the noobs, cheaters, hacks, aimbots and the like. I was running a cs server and ns. Eventually shutdown cs just to host ns. Sadly when i changed companies, i lost access to hosting a server. Had a clanmate and good firend who i convinced to run an ns server even tho i was the only one still playing. I still appreceiate that fact. Thanks Nickoli if you stumble upon this post. Sorry for the rant there...
Not too long after ns was gaining popularity (cant recall when but at the least least in 2002, 4 years after the engine was first released), HL2 was realeased in 2004. CS and DoD belonging to vavle by then had a headstart on all the other mods and were released along with it, which gave then a colossal lead on all the others. Now forgive my ignorance if this im wrong about this, but isnt ns2 going to be an hl2 mod? I mean here we are in 2008, 4 months shy of HL2's 4th birthday and still nothing truly concrete. I cant help but wonder how much longer will HL2 be alive? How much longer can you afford on keep on developping on an engine that might be replaced with a few more years?
I would hate to see a similar scenario occur where the game is released and within a few short years, they come out with a new engine and NS2 starts to die out before it's even had a proper chance to let the world know that its way better and much more deserving of support than cs or dod.
I loved this game, hell i still have screenshots of it that i could never bring myself to delete. One of my best ratio recrods were done in this game... had 123 kills and 9 deaths within 23 mins. Mind you it was combat but still... I remember going on some of the most competitive servers in the community, being on top of the kills boards and being approached by other clans for recruitement... Ahhh, i yearn for them days still.
I hope that it wont be like what happened with TF. QWTF was the best of them all. TFC was a poor in comparison, i remember being anxious for the TF2 release which seemed like it would never be released and when it finnaly was, it was pathetic from what i remember from QWTF... Innovations is nice but too much is also a bad thing when the original is regarded as perfection within it's own genre.
I come check once every blue moon in hopes that i'll see a release date posted but i find my hopes are crushed time and again... Some of us old guys want to come back.
Like the rest of us, still anxiously waiting for the release! All the best to the team, [Ht]Gambit
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
NS was like the training wheels of Flayra's bicycle. They have been shed now. You, as the concerned onlooker, can do nothing now but place bets as he rides into traffic.
<!--quoteo(post=1682652:date=Jul 6 2008, 05:54 PM:name=Ride)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ride @ Jul 6 2008, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682652"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why don't you guys just wait for NS2? NS1 is as dead as it was said to be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Because I can still have fun playing NS while I wait?
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1682539:date=Jul 4 2008, 04:58 PM:name=NoClass)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NoClass @ Jul 4 2008, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not too long after ns was gaining popularity (cant recall when but at the least least in 2002, 4 years after the engine was first released), HL2 was realeased in 2004. CS and DoD belonging to vavle by then had a headstart on all the other mods and were released along with it, which gave then a colossal lead on all the others. Now forgive my ignorance if this im wrong about this, but isnt ns2 going to be an hl2 mod? I mean here we are in 2008, 4 months shy of HL2's 4th birthday and still nothing truly concrete. I cant help but wonder how much longer will HL2 be alive? How much longer can you afford on keep on developping on an engine that might be replaced with a few more years?
I would hate to see a similar scenario occur where the game is released and within a few short years, they come out with a new engine and NS2 starts to die out before it's even had a proper chance to let the world know that its way better and much more deserving of support than cs or dod.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NS2 is using the Source engine but it is a stand alone game as opposed to a mod. The difference is it will have a very different look and feel, more like TF2 than empires it terms of graphics conversion and interfaces but still entirely different from both of course. <!--quoteo(post=1682562:date=Jul 5 2008, 01:33 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Jul 5 2008, 01:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS was like the training wheels of Flayra's bicycle. They have been shed now. You, as the concerned onlooker, can do nothing now but place bets as he rides into traffic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I get a picture of a smiling Flayra(his avatar) riding on a tricycle into traffic when I read this.
NS was a great game (combat wasn't; it was ok). Just because people aren't playing it doesn't mean it has faded from memory. NS2 will no doubt get much attention when it is released.
Updates that made the game more predictable, the exclusivity of exploits, favoritism, a chain reaction of egotism that strangely remains even now, servers splitting the community by using different versions and server settings, and some cheaters hurt NS. (Repeat of much that was already said .. just sorta QFTing)
Bring back the old lurk lol....
I hope NS2 isn't released for at least 1.5 years - because I don't want it to compete with SC2, Diablo 3, Warhammer, Darkfall, etc...
I play TF2 now. And yea, you can't play it expecting it to be like TF1 or you will be disappointed. It has quite a different feel, but it is pretty good in its own right. I think TF2 needs better maps (seems like people made the maps as if TF2 is just like TF1), and I really despise the achievements. I don't think I'll play it for too long, but just like TF1 it is a game that you can play every once in a while when you're bored.
<i>If you remember me and want to play with me my steam id is flegg now. Sort of reflects a change in personality I guess. Mind I'm not playing much until i take the DAT in a month.</i>
I doubt NS or NS2 will have much of a chance unless they make aliens actually fun to play. The first thing they can do is implement quake-style jumping so bs_1 servers don't make me want to kill myself. Yes I can bhop without scripts but it's so annoying and tedious it's not even fun.
Comments
I think the game has lived on pretty well all these years. Its based off an old quake engine several years old and its very dated. The models (while based on the HL1 engine are AWESOME) are old and blocky and the textures not as crisp and shiny as new games. Despite ALL these issues ... it's the <b>THIRD</b> most played mod being tracked by Valve (not including CS/DOD/TF2 as they are their own stand alone games now.) <a href="http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats" target="_blank">http://www.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=stats</a> - click the bottom link and see for yourself. Beating out Fortress Forever, which was <i>supposed</i> to be TF going back to its 'roots'. Beating out Insurgency - a mod a number of years in the making. PVK2, Specialists, Action HL - even beating the new DOD beta <b>just</b> released. 14.459 million player minutes per month, 173 server and 335 players as of this writing. To say a game that is this old to have these numbers, beating out mods now on the Source engine? Pft.
I think the biggest issue with NS (at least back when I was still playing, as I haven't logged in since I last posted here, who knows when) is that there are too many versions that have devided the community. There was the released version, a beta version, the new combat mode and the server mods. I will always firmly believe that the decrease in any game, especially to HL games are because of server mods. They are too inconsistent. Unless you find a server that you like and will forever use in the future - you never know what kind of dumb settings some admin set his server on. You say ... just join another server you whiner. Well, what happens when 10 out of 13 servers tried contain a mod you don't like/want to play with? Are you going to continue to waste time trying to find a server to play on or just move onto another game where you don't have to deal with it? Anyway. I went off on a rant, is a peeve of mine, sorry. There are just too many versions of the game out there. Truth be told, the action in classic is pretty damn slow (unless its increased quite a bit since I've tried.) Some times I would just rather play and blast some aliens. Combat served this purpose well, but divided the community imo. I started preferring to play Combat and then, would only play it. Not that there is anything wrong with that in itself, but it 'took' another player away from Classic. Some times, I just don't want to have to build up a base, or deal with an idiot commander or be forced to rely on team mates who don't know which way is up.
Despite all of this, it is STILL ranked #3 in HL/Source mods. I bet you anything FF would love to pull NS numbers. I anticipate with NS2's release, you will see a huge influx of people back to the 'franchise'. NS simply ported to Source would be enough to bring a large number of people back to it, myself included. I appreciate what Flayra is doing and have complete faith in his decisions. He's been in the field for a number of years and has a great understanding of what gamers are and the games they like - he is one! I'm convinced that mofo spent too much time in game with us and working on NS that would have been better spent .. oh, sleeping or having a job. I tell you, takes guts to live off your savings with no income to do what you love. I'd love nothing more than to work with him on similar projects with him, unfortunately I'm not the best with schedules and have responsibilities keeping me in Omaha. Not to mention, I doubt he want's to hear me screaming into the mic there is a Skulk behind him and to quit sucking. XD
NS2 will rock you f'n socks and will bring a large number of people back. Even if it continues on in another name or slightly different concept, every thing you love about NS will come through NS2 - The man loves his game too much for it not to.
/shrug
Ramblings of an old lurker. Don't mind me.
NS died because:
1. Its an old mod. Yes I realize other mods have become successful and are still extremely popular today but I feel one of the contributors to that was that they went retail.
2. Because its an old mod and many players have played the game since its initial release, there comes a point in time, like with ALL games, that you get bored with it - everything becomes monotonous. When you've played your 1337th siege map... things get kind of stale.
NS2 isn't going to 'solve' the problem of NS dying/dead... at least not for awhile. Think of NS2 as a new game. Most susscessful games don't advertise or release actual media until they have something concrete, which only happens after about the 2nd year of development. When game companies are creating a game, they usually have adequate funding to continue development, hire artists, etc.
Unknown Worlds didn't really have that kind of funding until recently. They didn't even have a building where they could all come together on a work day and work hardcore on their projects.
Now that they have funding, a building and a team... think of the development start date as right now and prepare yourself for a years wait at least.
At the moment because there are no matches, clans, and NS/NS2 news, I can't write any news on the site. And even if I can write something, maybe no one is read it, and there are no comments, discussions for sure.
I see the statistics on the site, there are still some NS downloader and visitor. But they don't show a life sign, we don't know them.
I can play NS if I want, I can find a server. But it's not tha same anymore.
Well that was refreshing. Thanks for the dose of realism.
That and many of the people that were apart of this community back in the beginning were in high school, much has changed. I only get on late at night when i get off work, conveniently when the server goes under maintenance.
I've always missed 1.04, the servers were unbeatable. I miss playing with the same 10-20 people every night on the same servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy ###### Dr. Fuzzy, still spraying DOOM pics on NS maps <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Well, yeah I remember REAL NS back in the 1.0x, buggy, unbalanced, and well small player base. Besides those bugs it happend to be the best NS I have ever played in my life. Yes the games ranged from 3-8 hours in length with some commanders going insane. I remember it vividly, epic battles for parts of the map and when OC chambers and turrets actually accomplished something. When Marine start would be destroyed and comm sent you out with a jp and welder and medded you to full to prevent SOF; gaining a moral vicotory by welding a hive or two down while the aliens tryed to find you. This is real NS, logging onto teamkindred NS server and sein the same people every ######in night, havin a good game and communicating how we were going to win. In the older versions any team could win at any time regardless of the situation. When 2.0 came out I quit NS after 2 months of it. Hated what they had done to my once favorite game. Yeah I know long games arent suitable for competitive players, but hey look what happend, combat came out, player base surged. Many of the loyal fans remained, and all the players gained from the surge mainly left, and then "some" of the original core remain. I installed the latest version of NS the other day and it was boring, since games only last 15 mins maps are repeated all the time.
Thanks for ruining my favorite game.
The game mechanics have changed from its original playstyle. It's much faster now. I'm guessing that as version numbers went up, round times have gone down. This means less room for mistakes.
De-emphasis of teams, more emphasis on the individuals (see:Combat, Fades, Res for kills)
More fps elements over time, less rts.
Loss of effective alien defenses. Marines get electrified buildings, turrets that can kill, mines. Aliens get smaller buildings, less damage on OC's. Why can a marine just jump over an OC? I never really understood how that helped gameplay. Alien resources are so much more important that marine resources, because they are individually apportioned.
Loss of atmosphere, maps should be fun to play on. Well lit big hallways do not induce fear in marines. (see: veil)
Building placement restrictions. Previously, marines could build bases in very tight quarters, but now that's not possible. More static building placement doesn't reward creative thinking.
Strategies. In order for the game to remain fun and competitive, there need to be more than just a couple of strats that work. The gameplay needs to be deep enough that the metagame is constantly evolving. (see: starcraft)
Unfortunately, that is not the case any longer. The dev team focused on making the game more "fun" not more playable. Adding new game types and features is great, but if the commander UI is still hard and irritating to use, how does that encourage the new players to step up?
Natural selection was a deep, involving game. The early maps had that special "Oh ######" factor. The redesigned maps do not. Hera comes to mind. As time progressed, the developers added more and more restrictions to as what you could do. This reduced the number of possible playmoves that you could make, in turn increasing the monotony of the game.
Not enough updates. NS did have a huge, active player community. I remember that the forums used to be full of life. So many suggestion threads. A lot of good ones. Too few were tried. As the development cycle stagnated, players began to leave. Remember, i'm not blaming anyone, i'm just saying what i see. As the community began to dwindle, pushing out more updates would have brought them back. NS is still being developed, why close playtests to a select few? Why not let everyone play, and let everyone have a say, instead of releases being few and far between, a weekly update with different features would have kept interest.
edit: Slippery slope. I forgot about this one. If your team is losing, you're probably going to lose, especially on the alien side. The early game is so crucial, it sets the tone for the entire game. Those crazy amazing comebacks are much less likely now. Not as fun. (Contributing to this: MT, SOF)
I haven't played in a long time, but those were the reasons why i ended up leaving and not coming back. It's unfortunate that the situation seems to remain unchanged.
The game mechanics have changed from its original playstyle. It's much faster now. I'm guessing that as version numbers went up, round times have gone down. This means less room for mistakes.
De-emphasis of teams, more emphasis on the individuals (see:Combat, Fades, Res for kills)
More fps elements over time, less rts.
Loss of effective alien defenses. Marines get electrified buildings, turrets that can kill, mines. Aliens get smaller buildings, less damage on OC's. Why can a marine just jump over an OC? I never really understood how that helped gameplay. Alien resources are so much more important that marine resources, because they are individually apportioned.
Loss of atmosphere, maps should be fun to play on. Well lit big hallways do not induce fear in marines. (see: veil)
Building placement restrictions. Previously, marines could build bases in very tight quarters, but now that's not possible. More static building placement doesn't reward creative thinking.
Strategies. In order for the game to remain fun and competitive, there need to be more than just a couple of strats that work. The gameplay needs to be deep enough that the metagame is constantly evolving. (see: starcraft)
Unfortunately, that is not the case any longer. The dev team focused on making the game more "fun" not more playable. Adding new game types and features is great, but if the commander UI is still hard and irritating to use, how does that encourage the new players to step up?
Natural selection was a deep, involving game. The early maps had that special "Oh ######" factor. The redesigned maps do not. Hera comes to mind. As time progressed, the developers added more and more restrictions to as what you could do. This reduced the number of possible playmoves that you could make, in turn increasing the monotony of the game.
Not enough updates. NS did have a huge, active player community. I remember that the forums used to be full of life. So many suggestion threads. A lot of good ones. Too few were tried. As the development cycle stagnated, players began to leave. Remember, i'm not blaming anyone, i'm just saying what i see. As the community began to dwindle, pushing out more updates would have brought them back. NS is still being developed, why close playtests to a select few? Why not let everyone play, and let everyone have a say, instead of releases being few and far between, a weekly update with different features would have kept interest.
edit: Slippery slope. I forgot about this one. If your team is losing, you're probably going to lose, especially on the alien side. The early game is so crucial, it sets the tone for the entire game. Those crazy amazing comebacks are much less likely now. Not as fun. (Contributing to this: MT, SOF)
I haven't played in a long time, but those were the reasons why i ended up leaving and not coming back. It's unfortunate that the situation seems to remain unchanged.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agree, 100% on everything
What's the main strategy here ? seriously Flayra & Devs...
Do you really think that leaving the NS1 Community dead is a good idea ?
If I'm not mistaken, NS2 won't be a reality in less than 1.5 years at least...
One year and a half left in the cold could be a devastating blow to the community.
Your followers, the early adopters of NS2... will you forget about them ?
what are your plans to revive or conserve this community ?
An official word on this would be really nice,
War.
not that 2.x/3.x do not have good things. They sure do. But I adored 1.04. I just like 2.x+.
On gameplay and fun 1.04 was better (except for rushes)
Look, things dont look/get better with age, its just down hill after a certain point. Just ask any married couple.
Either accept things the way they are and enjoy the ride or move on.
TF2 has 9 player classes. Apart from the ones that are too rubbish to be worth playing as (Heavy), I think I learnt how to be 'better than average' to 'pretty good' at all of them in under 6 months. It has few maps and many have a vary similar layout. All are linear with unidirectional flow in each direction, like a glorified football pitch instead of a battlefield with multiple fronts and sorties into enemy teritory.
In NS it's taken me years and years to learn (to be pretty good at) the weapons and especially the Alien classes. Only these past 18 months have I felt confident enough to go Fade or Lerk early in a round and to have the team count on me to do a good job. There is still more for me to learn in NS, even though I have played a round on every map with every conceivable winnable strategy from both teams. Occasionally I'll go Commander if there aren't too many serious players about and try to learn to play that a bit better (not because 'serious' players are harder to work with, but because the margins for error are much tighter as Commander; ~50% success rate so far, though). The game allows relocation, meaning absolute multidirectional flow through each map's web-like layout. <b>No two maps are the same, even broadly speaking.</b> Each map has a different area that has strategic prominance: a double res room, Cargo, Internal Access/Temperature Control, Cold Turn, the middle Hive; there are an insane amount of strategies that form variations of holding or suppressing these key areas.
This is why people are still playing NS - because it has depth where TF2 mostly has options. Without Valve's updates it would be interesting to see the falloff of TF2. I think it would be more severe than most people would imagine. 6 years down the line don't expect TF2 to be the relative success story that NS has been.
im not sure either about how many ppl would join NS if it would be on source engine, and i also dont know how much time would it take to a fast-port version to the HL2 engine, so heres my guess:
make a beta-ns:source until u guys finish ns2 because its pretty slow, and im guessing an NS:Source would be much faster to develop, so if u guys are splitted into 2 teams (as i think you do), group A does NS:Source, group B does the NS1 stuff, like u did in the final 3.2. the NS1 crew could be working on NS:Source.
Just a wild guess, but it might work
I agree. I was expecting there to be more depth in the interactions between the options, but it doesn't seem to actually work out that way beyond a few specific pairings. To compare it to fighting games, it's like the difference between Marvel vs. Capcom and Guilty Gear. Both are valid approaches but the "option" way requires for there to be a LOT of viable options. I feel like right now Valve is throwing spaghetti against the wall with TF2. They add options and sees what sticks and actually make it a better game. Once all of the classes have their updates the game will probably be better competitively, but not everything will be useful.
NS's approach works better for a smaller company since they'll plan to make every feature possible have depth(if we're going by NS1) rather than throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing which strats/abilities rise to the top.
I think any hopes of the dev team messing with NS are in vain and I think they should just focus on NS:S. The community is what it is and chances of the community coming back are slim imo. I'm happy as long as G4B2S is still online.
P.S.
does anyone enjoy TF2 more than TFC? Whenever I play TF2 I find myself hating it and wishing I was playing TFC.
In TF2 I can genuinely have fun playing as any different class (e4xcept the Heavy). I'll shift from class to class depending on what's needed. In TFC I only really played Engy, Sniper, Heavy and occasionally Soldier and Demo.
In TFC I could easily end up playing for more than 6 hours at a time. In TF2 I'll get bored after 2 most of the time, because most of the maps are very similar in layout and gameplay and they are designed to favour the winning team and reduce the chances of a comeback.
TFC was more frenetic. It was faster and there was a lot going on. Instant respawn meant it wasn't a big problem if you died to a grenade, because making your way through the spam was a reward in itself. TF2 is slower-paced and requires more teamwork.
TFC was more serious, most players were playing to win, not playing to get comedy kills or achievements; but it also lacked the character that TF2 oozes from almost every pore.
Finally, TF2 is more important for games overall, because of how many people totally new to games it has introduced.
Well sadly enough, i have to lean with the pessimistic opinions... I understand how difficult it is getting a project like this completed, with all the various issues and obstacles that are encounterd down the road. Now i wish nothing but success for the NS team, this was by far one of the best mods i had ever played and i still class it as the best among the RTS meets FPS genre. I had played a few of the other types but they were pitiful in comparison. I truly an anxious to play this game once more.
I have to give credit to the devs for all the hard work and efforts that has gone into NS and what's been put into NS2. It's hard work and ungratifying at times. Nontheless i cant help but feel a sense of urgency... I recall NS being released late in HL1's lifespan if you will. HL1 was first released back in 98, i remember running a cs beta 1 server, then 3 and so on until valve acquired it and it grew in popularity. Along with it came all the noobs, cheaters, hacks, aimbots and the like. I was running a cs server and ns. Eventually shutdown cs just to host ns. Sadly when i changed companies, i lost access to hosting a server. Had a clanmate and good firend who i convinced to run an ns server even tho i was the only one still playing. I still appreceiate that fact. Thanks Nickoli if you stumble upon this post. Sorry for the rant there...
Not too long after ns was gaining popularity (cant recall when but at the least least in 2002, 4 years after the engine was first released), HL2 was realeased in 2004. CS and DoD belonging to vavle by then had a headstart on all the other mods and were released along with it, which gave then a colossal lead on all the others. Now forgive my ignorance if this im wrong about this, but isnt ns2 going to be an hl2 mod? I mean here we are in 2008, 4 months shy of HL2's 4th birthday and still nothing truly concrete. I cant help but wonder how much longer will HL2 be alive? How much longer can you afford on keep on developping on an engine that might be replaced with a few more years?
I would hate to see a similar scenario occur where the game is released and within a few short years, they come out with a new engine and NS2 starts to die out before it's even had a proper chance to let the world know that its way better and much more deserving of support than cs or dod.
I loved this game, hell i still have screenshots of it that i could never bring myself to delete. One of my best ratio recrods were done in this game... had 123 kills and 9 deaths within 23 mins. Mind you it was combat but still... I remember going on some of the most competitive servers in the community, being on top of the kills boards and being approached by other clans for recruitement... Ahhh, i yearn for them days still.
I hope that it wont be like what happened with TF. QWTF was the best of them all. TFC was a poor in comparison, i remember being anxious for the TF2 release which seemed like it would never be released and when it finnaly was, it was pathetic from what i remember from QWTF... Innovations is nice but too much is also a bad thing when the original is regarded as perfection within it's own genre.
I come check once every blue moon in hopes that i'll see a release date posted but i find my hopes are crushed time and again... Some of us old guys want to come back.
Like the rest of us, still anxiously waiting for the release! All the best to the team,
[Ht]Gambit
I would hate to see a similar scenario occur where the game is released and within a few short years, they come out with a new engine and NS2 starts to die out before it's even had a proper chance to let the world know that its way better and much more deserving of support than cs or dod.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 is using the Source engine but it is a stand alone game as opposed to a mod. The difference is it will have a very different look and feel, more like TF2 than empires it terms of graphics conversion and interfaces but still entirely different from both of course.
<!--quoteo(post=1682562:date=Jul 5 2008, 01:33 AM:name=Sarisel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sarisel @ Jul 5 2008, 01:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1682562"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS was like the training wheels of Flayra's bicycle. They have been shed now. You, as the concerned onlooker, can do nothing now but place bets as he rides into traffic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get a picture of a smiling Flayra(his avatar) riding on a tricycle into traffic when I read this.
Updates that made the game more predictable, the exclusivity of exploits, favoritism, a chain reaction of egotism that strangely remains even now, servers splitting the community by using different versions and server settings, and some cheaters hurt NS. (Repeat of much that was already said .. just sorta QFTing)
Bring back the old lurk lol....
I hope NS2 isn't released for at least 1.5 years - because I don't want it to compete with SC2, Diablo 3, Warhammer, Darkfall, etc...
I play TF2 now. And yea, you can't play it expecting it to be like TF1 or you will be disappointed. It has quite a different feel, but it is pretty good in its own right.
I think TF2 needs better maps (seems like people made the maps as if TF2 is just like TF1), and I really despise the achievements. I don't think I'll play it for too long, but just like TF1 it is a game that you can play every once in a while when you're bored.
<i>If you remember me and want to play with me my steam id is flegg now. Sort of reflects a change in personality I guess. Mind I'm not playing much until i take the DAT in a month.</i>
so yes I completely agree to make the lerk lurk again and not be this flying biting hummingbird of doom.