Scope & Creep
CanadianWolverine
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
<div class="IPBDescription">I love ideas and suggestions but...</div>...
Is there a point at which it should be considered that any ideas and suggestions should be first and foremost considered to be just constructs of our imagination, and as such have no real impact on the end product?
In other words:
1) Should we stop giving ideas and suggestions now, soon or never?
2) Do ideas and suggestions introduce problems to the game's development and thus shipping?
3) Do those posting ideas and suggestions realize the game 'may' incorporate few, if any, of the ideas?
4) Do the developers read all, a few, or none of the ideas and suggestions posts?
Its not a new thought to some posters, some of us bring it up in the very first idea threads: "Takes to much time and resources for the developers, for little to no payback for the game play." I was never a fan of that line of thought, especially with the release so far away then, but now I feel like giving it some credence, thanks to the new announcement/podcast by the Devs, I can't help but wonder if we have offered all we should in terms of ideas and suggestions for NS2.
Is there a point at which it should be considered that any ideas and suggestions should be first and foremost considered to be just constructs of our imagination, and as such have no real impact on the end product?
In other words:
1) Should we stop giving ideas and suggestions now, soon or never?
2) Do ideas and suggestions introduce problems to the game's development and thus shipping?
3) Do those posting ideas and suggestions realize the game 'may' incorporate few, if any, of the ideas?
4) Do the developers read all, a few, or none of the ideas and suggestions posts?
Its not a new thought to some posters, some of us bring it up in the very first idea threads: "Takes to much time and resources for the developers, for little to no payback for the game play." I was never a fan of that line of thought, especially with the release so far away then, but now I feel like giving it some credence, thanks to the new announcement/podcast by the Devs, I can't help but wonder if we have offered all we should in terms of ideas and suggestions for NS2.
Comments
<i>But I believe, and stress, that people should spend a lot of time, thought and detail on their suggestions.</i>
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i><!--coloro:#808080--><span style="color:#808080"><!--/coloro-->I've always been an avid follower of putting a lot of thought and detail into what few things I've suggested (check out my topic history).<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I believe <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->NOW IS THE TIME<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> to construct <!--coloro:#FF3232--><span style="color:#FF3232"><!--/coloro--><i>well written, easy to follow and very detailed suggestions</i><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> because there will be NO MORE "the source engine cannot handle this" or "We couldn't figure out how to manipulate the code" or "the devs would have to rewrite χ amount of code"
so perhaps someone with a bit of time and who has followed the ideas thread for a long time could compile a new topic with some of the best and most detailed and innovative ideas which had a lot of buzz in the past, just to bring them back to the fresh minds of the development team!
With max still building the engine, and a great idea proposed, he could in theory write code that would be specifically aimed at helping the idea prosper, instead of having to retro-fit ideas as with source!
<!--coloro:#C0C0C0--><span style="color:#C0C0C0"><!--/coloro-->-------------------------------------------------------------------------------<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--fonto:Franklin Gothic Medium--><span style="font-family:Franklin Gothic Medium"><!--/fonto--><i><!--coloro:#9ACD32--><span style="color:#9ACD32"><!--/coloro-->This was a great topic, well timed and thought provoking. Kudos!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></i><!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->
I think its a good idea to keep discussing suggestions.
The first reason ... I cannot explain well, pertaining to the purpose of a forum and having something to talk about.
The second reason is that development does not stop after the release of the game. Better ideas won't be flowing until the game is out, but they may still influence future ideas.
The third reason is Lua. The community is destined to modify the game. That may or may not be for the best, but community made changes ought to be well discussed here. If someone has an idea they decide they'll code later on and they keep it to themselves until they release it, it may wind up being disliked and a waste of effort. Where as if something gets well discussed before creation begins, then it will be better known in what direction the creation should be taken or if it is altogether an unfavorable idea.
Now, despite being in favor of supporting discussion of ideas, I must confess that I also generally avoid looking in this suggestion area. A good majority of the time that I peer into a suggestion forum, about half of the ideas are not well thought out and contribute nothing (sometimes feeling more like a complaint that the game isn't <i>their way</i>). So I also enjoy the presence of a suggestion forum for its ability to filter these posts into its own corner (however such a manner of thinking is artificial, as such unnecessary posts are bound to be in any populated forum).
they definately read them, ocasionally they will respond to a suggestion. i think max responded to one of my comments in the flamethrower thread....
Very good points, one and all.
Here is a question: Has anyone of us community forum contributors started coding any of the ideas here in LUA?
That would be something very interesting to see if if was shared among us and something I as only a barely basic programmer would still be curious about to see what can be accomplished, even before we know anything about the guts of NS2 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Then seperate the ideas to good and bad, then the dev's could use the good idea pool as giant repository for game enchancing ideas <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> just incase their creativity runs dry
I agree with what most people have already said. People will inevitably post ideas, and in some respects its good to keep them all in one place. Also, while the devs may not use them, they may spark other ideas they will use or, as someone else pointed out, the community will add it in themselves. However, the hashing process is important to get the good ideas out and chewed on a little, while the bad ideas get thrown under a bus.
While it will add a layer of stupid (zomg I'm going to spam 5 stars with multiple accounts), hopefully it will also lend itself to help the better ideas rise to the top and let the re-hashing of fail plummet to the depths so we never see them again.
It would be important to distinguish that the rating would be on the discussed/final product, not necessarily on the original post. However, to make people's lives easier, they should update their original idea/post to help new readers to the thread instead of forcing them to review all the pages of discussion. But that's just my pet peeve.
While it will add a layer of stupid (zomg I'm going to spam 5 stars with multiple accounts), hopefully it will also lend itself to help the better ideas rise to the top and let the re-hashing of fail plummet to the depths so we never see them again.
It would be important to distinguish that the rating would be on the discussed/final product, not necessarily on the original post. However, to make people's lives easier, they should update their original idea/post to help new readers to the thread instead of forcing them to review all the pages of discussion. But that's just my pet peeve.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see what your saying about the "need" thing but I really thing we can do without the rating system.
Is there a way for someone (with moderator power?) to go back through let's say all topics in this forum from October 2007 perhaps, look at all the topics that had... let's say...
Over 150 views (pretty easy)
and
Over 20 replies
or
If the topic was interesting, well written but received little attention (people could PM the moderator with suggestions?)
And the add a POLL to the first post of these topics asking for people's rating of the Idea.
THEN when all these polls have finished lets say 1 week of polling, anything with a high percentage of 5 Star votes (or whatever) can be added to a stickied thread with highly rated ideas...
and any threads from now on... that are decent ideas can be polled and added to sticky thread on a rolling scheme.
Just a thought ^^
probably a little much effort, but there are definitely some doozies of great ideas that are lost in the depths of the forum