Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1685286:date=Aug 5 2008, 02:04 AM:name=airyK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airyK @ Aug 5 2008, 02:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm tired of all these "NO BHOPPING" replys. It reminds me of part of the player community that overload there servers with worthless plugins/bots/and no scripting.. They are the cancer of NS and it has practically already killed the current game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is also the reason I don't really like the idea of public lua scripting for NS2 as it can backfire like this and it probably will do just that. It is one thing to have an easy to modify engine and another to give the community, which run the servers, all the freedome in the world to mod the game to their hearts content. It is kind of the threat of the "losing control of the core gameplay" scenario that is already present in NS1...
Perhaps these fears are premature... But it is certaintly possible and then d-day will be upon us all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Are there any plans for NS2 stand alone <b>linux server files</b>?
And for the record: bunny hopping or strafe jumping is not a science. Anyone can do that and there is no special skill needed. We did it in the early HL1 years (hell i saw it in quake 2, before the game died because of all the cheaters), long before the CS players. I'm absolutly sure there are a lot better ways to bring skill related content into a game like Natural Selection, requesting to add an HL1 engine glitch as a feature is childish and also not really creative <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> Don't be sad, the community will always find a way to add or remove "features".
If u port NS2 to Linux... omg i would marry u guys... that would be such a great thing... coz the linux gaming market is not recognized by most gaming developers, so ur able to make much money. Linux/Mac Users would thank u by buying the game... i would also if it just comes out for windows.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1685421:date=Aug 8 2008, 04:40 AM:name=Westwood)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Westwood @ Aug 8 2008, 04:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685421"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If u port NS2 to Linux... omg i would marry u guys...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well for charlie's sake lets hope they don't port to linux........ who would wear the pants!?
<!--quoteo(post=1685516:date=Aug 8 2008, 03:36 PM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Aug 8 2008, 03:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Higgs boson only exists in the unknown worlds universe, thankfully. LHC = epic fail NS2 = accelerates my pants<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha! I although though of NS fan as being a better class of nerds! And I mean no offense by that, especially since I include myself in the group.
Aaaanyway. So 3 weeks and no update... does that happen often? I hope longer waiting = epic podcast on the works. So...
4 weeks = ingame screenies 5 weeks = ingame footage 6 weeks = beta! 7 weeks = "Game now on steam!" 8 weeks = we have secretly installed the game in your computers! Go ahead and play right NOW!
<!--quoteo(post=1685530:date=Aug 9 2008, 05:40 AM:name=NeoSniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeoSniper @ Aug 9 2008, 05:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685530"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Haha! I although though of NS fan as being a better class of nerds! And I mean no offense by that, especially since I include myself in the group.
Aaaanyway. So 3 weeks and no update... does that happen often? I hope longer waiting = epic podcast on the works. So...
4 weeks = ingame screenies 5 weeks = ingame footage 6 weeks = beta! 7 weeks = "Game now on steam!" 8 weeks = we have secretly installed the game in your computers! Go ahead and play right NOW!
last time that we were 4 weeks without updates they surprised us with an engine change, maybe they have switched again to Source Engine and that's why there hasn't been updates recently <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
Although personally I think the reason is that they are working hard and don't have enough free time to do a podcast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1685306:date=Aug 5 2008, 02:08 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Aug 5 2008, 02:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685306"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is also the reason I don't really like the idea of public lua scripting for NS2 as it can backfire like this and it probably will do just that. It is one thing to have an easy to modify engine and another to give the community, which run the servers, all the freedome in the world to mod the game to their hearts content. It is kind of the threat of the "losing control of the core gameplay" scenario that is already present in NS1...
Perhaps these fears are premature... But it is certaintly possible and then d-day will be upon us all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't worry, pretty much every past and present competetive player shares you fears. Not much we can do about it unfortunately.
They said somewhere that probably unmodded and custom games will be seperated into two server tabs. I'm all for this, being a fan of the original unmodded game myself.
BHopping is an ABSOLUTE MUST!!!no questions asked. For those of u who disagree, u obviously either couldnt do it, or u kept getting killed by someone who could. The vanilla (no upgrades) skulk would be at SUCH a disadvantage with no bunnyhopping, cos they're just too slow, and a marine would kill you way to easily, if he had even SEMI-decent aim, especially if there are 2 marines and 1 skulk. Bhopping adds so many more features and opportunities for skulks, and aids them in getting minerals as it aids with kills. A skulks advantage is its speed, and removing bhopping would just be stupid. To the person who said it looked stupid. Even if it were removed, skulks would still jump from side to side, to avoid marine fire, ANY way to stop themselves from being hit. If u think it looks stupid, then NS aint a game for u my friend, cos yes, its all about the gameplay, not the looks. Not everyone can bhop, why u think so many people dont want it, cos if they could do it and do it properly, they would be saying the same thing i am, its a MUST to keep it!!!Stop complaining and learn to aim plzthx!
Your logic is quite flawed. I know for certain there are bunny hoppers out there that would prefer it not being in NS2. I won't even begin to start with all the reasons I believe it shouldn't in the game, I would most likely get flamed (again) and therefore it wouldn't be worth my time. We've already tried this debate 2-3 times and they've mostly ended up in flame wars and others accused of trolling. If the only way you can play NS is by bunny hopping then you my friend should probably find a different game to play. If you want to perhaps offer suggestions on improving bunny hopping then by all means <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104609" target="_blank">visit the extended thread </a>as there are already lengthy discussions about it.
<!--quoteo(post=1685559:date=Aug 9 2008, 11:34 AM:name=Sylver)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sylver @ Aug 9 2008, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They said somewhere that probably unmodded and custom games will be seperated into two server tabs. I'm all for this, being a fan of the original unmodded game myself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, most custom servers on steam already have a hack that keeps them in the default server tab, so it probably wouldn't do much good.
unless the devs IP banned all the servers that did that =D not going to happen though -.-
Leaning towards no bhopping myself. I can understand effort going towards keeping it out for the sake of proper exploit free balance.
But please for the love of Darwin, UWE don't waste time including it. Best thing you can do is just make the physics work right, if that so happens to kill bhopping the so be it, nothing you can do about it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Well to add my 2c to the bunnyhopping issue, I personally think it should be removed and replaced with a skill based movement system that looks less stupid, and is more intuitive (I don't mean easier as such, just more responsive and flexible) - note: this isn't a question of realism or dumbing down the game, it just looks frigging stupid to have skulks bouncing round like rubber balls all over the shop.
And before someone brings out the much over-used - "you just want it removed because you can't do it" card, I can and I still think it's a daft floor in the way the HL and Source engines handle movement.
<!--quoteo(post=1685708:date=Aug 11 2008, 10:10 PM:name=Rhodri)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rhodri @ Aug 11 2008, 10:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well to add my 2c to the bunnyhopping issue, I personally think it should be removed and replaced with a skill based movement system that looks less stupid, and is more intuitive (I don't mean easier as such, just more responsive and flexible) - note: this isn't a question of realism or dumbing down the game, it just looks frigging stupid to have skulks bouncing round like rubber balls all over the shop.
And before someone brings out the much over-used - "you just want it removed because you can't do it" card, I can and I still think it's a daft floor in the way the HL and Source engines handle movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I REALLY like this idea as I have always thought that in a game that's supposed to about the atmosphere that it seemed very out of place in NS! I love the idea of skill based movement bonuses. A different set of movements for each creature/human class would be great, so that the movements that might give a skulk a "leap" sized jump with only 1 hive would not do anything if the player was playing as an onos, but a different set of movements would give an onos a "charge" but do nothing for a skulk.
<!--quoteo(post=1685325:date=Aug 5 2008, 10:34 PM:name=Regnareb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Regnareb @ Aug 5 2008, 10:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unsichtbar > Hum ? A game without linux server files ?
It's impossible... or just totally stupid. Don't worry <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure about that? UKW = US company, lots of them are just focused on Windows platforms.
A small company like this is maybe not able to do such stuff (in time), i saw them only talking about Max coding the engine. This is not id software or Epic who may shipts copys of their games as dual boot DVD or let you download the full linux client after the release. I realy don't expect a linux or mac client form unknownworlds, but i hope the linux server stuff is not far behind the game release (and fully supported with updates and fixes). Today it is one thing to release a game but after the release it is also verry important that updates and fixes are fast and less painfull. There is a big difference between a mod release and a full price game, customer support is verry important, that includes a lot, not just bug fixing.
So i just hope for a positiv statement from UKW about stand alone linux server files, because there never was a low buged project in the past few years, that was successful without linux server support.
<!--quoteo(post=1685559:date=Aug 9 2008, 05:34 PM:name=Sylver)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sylver @ Aug 9 2008, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They said somewhere that probably unmodded and custom games will be seperated into two server tabs. I'm all for this, being a fan of the original unmodded game myself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, this method still allows for a situation where a majority of servers are running modified NS2 games rather than the vanilla ones. Although, should NS2 be a well balanced game out of the box, this should hopefully be unlikely; however, if the game is released and people find its balance unsatisfactory, you can bet your ass there would spawn many 'improved' NS2 modifications and I fear that could shred the potential community to bits.
For that reason, I expect the community to only be allowed to MOD the game after a satisfactory initial fanbase is established - it's not like people could mod TF2 as soon as it was released, and considering NS2 is the flagship of UKW's introduction to the retail games market, it should be doubly important to make sure its players are attracted to the core game before allowing them anywhere near modification to the game.
I have something to say about bunnyhopping (sigh..why do I trouble myself): Comments or speculations about the impact of removing bunnyhopping in NS2 whilst using NS as a reference point are completely, totally, pointless. NS2 will undoubtably have so much new or changed (read: improved) over NS that you cannot compare or reasonably predict what results any changes might bring... so with that in mind, I urge people to please relax your BHpping defences (and offences) and try and live harmoniously until you have something substantial to actually argue about. Having said that though, I personally am completely in support of removing bunny hopping for <i>exactly</i> the reasons Rhodri pointed out.
There are better solutions than 'bunnyhopping'; even bunnyhopping under a different name with actual <i>implementation</i> into the game so that it <i>looks</i> and <i>feels</i> right (rather than being an engine quirk, turned 'feature'). It's silly to think that any feature in NS2 brought over from NS must behave and be exactly the same, as if NS2 is a port - it's not going to be a port, people; it's going to be an evolution!
So BHppers and anti-BHppers should all just...relax!
That's the same as saying "We can't know that aiming will be a good gameplay mechanic until we test how fast fades blink."
But I've said what I wanted to say on the topic. Now it's time for more important things like.... <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=104613" target="_blank">donuts</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1685959:date=Aug 15 2008, 12:17 AM:name=Unsichtbar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Unsichtbar @ Aug 15 2008, 12:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1685959"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you sure about that? UKW = US company, lots of them are just focused on Windows platforms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, because a game without linux servers, is going to fail "irreparably", and because they already said that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> If they want to sell their game, they have to make a linux server.
And it's 'easy' to do a linux server, for the linux client it's an other story.
We're not talking about bunny-hopping - we're bored of it. We have our own thoughts on it as well and I think our solution will appeal to most everyone. Details will follow at some arbitrary later date, not now. Back to the engine.
We've mentioned a few times that we're going to separate "vanilla" unmodded servers from modded servers. The default will be to play on unmodded servers, but if you want to enter the Wild West, you can click a different tab and join those games. That's how we'll keep both our core experience and allow all the crazy stuff you guys are going to make.
Moddability has many times proven to have a very positive effect on a game's sales (looking at Doom, and it's successors). On top of that it has other benefits like stimulating the community to create modifications and customizations to keep itself even longer entertained. Even though I previously stated that I'm a personal fan of the vanilla flavored NS, I also heavily support the idea of allowing your community to modify your product even further. As far as balance between regular and modded games goes, only time can tell and I don't believe I am the only one loving the standard game.
About bunny-hopping: I've never really liked it. I'm hoping to see more creative solution, though I guess Charlie has already hinted enough towards that.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE whatever you do, do not use punkbuster, it has got to be one of the worst anti cheat systems out there. It causes more problems for those who dont cheat then it does for the hackers. Stick with VAC.
Gotta ditto the punkbuster thing, my friend just gave up on playing BF2142 because punkbuster just chain kicked him whenever he tried to play, apparently it doesn't like vista. I know a few people who refuse to play any game that uses it.
and punkbuster cant do anything against cheaters, it just couse problems for those who dont cheat.
look at crysis... they used it. they get flooded by hackers. now the MP is dead there. however. i never seen a hacker in TF2 or any other game that uses VAC, eccept counter strike, and even there very few.
Comments
This is also the reason I don't really like the idea of public lua scripting for NS2 as it can backfire like this and it probably will do just that. It is one thing to have an easy to modify engine and another to give the community, which run the servers, all the freedome in the world to mod the game to their hearts content. It is kind of the threat of the "losing control of the core gameplay" scenario that is already present in NS1...
Perhaps these fears are premature... But it is certaintly possible and then d-day will be upon us all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
And for the record: bunny hopping or strafe jumping is not a science. Anyone can do that and there is no special skill needed. We did it in the early HL1 years (hell i saw it in quake 2, before the game died because of all the cheaters), long before the CS players. I'm absolutly sure there are a lot better ways to bring skill related content into a game like Natural Selection, requesting to add an HL1 engine glitch as a feature is childish and also not really creative <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /> Don't be sad, the community will always find a way to add or remove "features".
It's impossible... or just totally stupid. Don't worry <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=104522&view=findpost&p=1684238" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1684238</a>
NS-Fan <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<img src="http://hcc.web.cern.ch/hcc/file/field_lhc.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Welcome to the *Happy Panda* rave..
well for charlie's sake lets hope they don't port to linux........ who would wear the pants!?
LHC = epic fail
NS2 = accelerates my pants
LHC = epic fail
NS2 = accelerates my pants<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha! I although though of NS fan as being a better class of nerds! And I mean no offense by that, especially since I include myself in the group.
Aaaanyway. So 3 weeks and no update... does that happen often? I hope longer waiting = epic podcast on the works. So...
4 weeks = ingame screenies
5 weeks = ingame footage
6 weeks = beta!
7 weeks = "Game now on steam!"
8 weeks = we have secretly installed the game in your computers! Go ahead and play right NOW!
flawless logic!
Aaaanyway. So 3 weeks and no update... does that happen often? I hope longer waiting = epic podcast on the works. So...
4 weeks = ingame screenies
5 weeks = ingame footage
6 weeks = beta!
7 weeks = "Game now on steam!"
8 weeks = we have secretly installed the game in your computers! Go ahead and play right NOW!
flawless logic!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
last time that we were 4 weeks without updates they surprised us with an engine change, maybe they have switched again to Source Engine and that's why there hasn't been updates recently <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":angry:" border="0" alt="mad-fix.gif" />
Although personally I think the reason is that they are working hard and don't have enough free time to do a podcast <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Perhaps these fears are premature... But it is certaintly possible and then d-day will be upon us all <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't worry, pretty much every past and present competetive player shares you fears. Not much we can do about it unfortunately.
Seconded!
How about an update guys? In the words of Dr Evil, thow me a frickin bone here!
A skulks advantage is its speed, and removing bhopping would just be stupid. To the person who said it looked stupid. Even if it were removed, skulks would still jump from side to side, to avoid marine fire, ANY way to stop themselves from being hit. If u think it looks stupid, then NS aint a game for u my friend, cos yes, its all about the gameplay, not the looks.
Not everyone can bhop, why u think so many people dont want it, cos if they could do it and do it properly, they would be saying the same thing i am, its a MUST to keep it!!!Stop complaining and learn to aim plzthx!
I know for certain there are bunny hoppers out there that would prefer it not being in NS2. I won't even begin to start with all the reasons I believe it shouldn't in the game, I would most likely get flamed (again) and therefore it wouldn't be worth my time. We've already tried this debate 2-3 times and they've mostly ended up in flame wars and others accused of trolling. If the only way you can play NS is by bunny hopping then you my friend should probably find a different game to play.
If you want to perhaps offer suggestions on improving bunny hopping then by all means <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104609" target="_blank">visit the extended thread </a>as there are already lengthy discussions about it.
well, most custom servers on steam already have a hack that keeps them in the default server tab, so it probably wouldn't do much good.
unless the devs IP banned all the servers that did that =D not going to happen though -.-
Leaning towards no bhopping myself. I can understand effort going towards keeping it out for the sake of proper exploit free balance.
But please for the love of Darwin, UWE don't waste time including it. Best thing you can do is just make the physics work right, if that so happens to kill bhopping the so be it, nothing you can do about it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
And before someone brings out the much over-used - "you just want it removed because you can't do it" card, I can and I still think it's a daft floor in the way the HL and Source engines handle movement.
And before someone brings out the much over-used - "you just want it removed because you can't do it" card, I can and I still think it's a daft floor in the way the HL and Source engines handle movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I REALLY like this idea as I have always thought that in a game that's supposed to about the atmosphere that it seemed very out of place in NS! I love the idea of skill based movement bonuses. A different set of movements for each creature/human class would be great, so that the movements that might give a skulk a "leap" sized jump with only 1 hive would not do anything if the player was playing as an onos, but a different set of movements would give an onos a "charge" but do nothing for a skulk.
It's impossible... or just totally stupid. Don't worry <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you sure about that? UKW = US company, lots of them are just focused on Windows platforms.
A small company like this is maybe not able to do such stuff (in time), i saw them only talking about Max coding the engine. This is not id software or Epic who may shipts copys of their games as dual boot DVD or let you download the full linux client after the release. I realy don't expect a linux or mac client form unknownworlds, but i hope the linux server stuff is not far behind the game release (and fully supported with updates and fixes). Today it is one thing to release a game but after the release it is also verry important that updates and fixes are fast and less painfull. There is a big difference between a mod release and a full price game, customer support is verry important, that includes a lot, not just bug fixing.
So i just hope for a positiv statement from UKW about stand alone linux server files, because there never was a low buged project in the past few years, that was successful without linux server support.
Unfortunately, this method still allows for a situation where a majority of servers are running modified NS2 games rather than the vanilla ones. Although, should NS2 be a well balanced game out of the box, this should hopefully be unlikely; however, if the game is released and people find its balance unsatisfactory, you can bet your ass there would spawn many 'improved' NS2 modifications and I fear that could shred the potential community to bits.
For that reason, I expect the community to only be allowed to MOD the game after a satisfactory initial fanbase is established - it's not like people could mod TF2 as soon as it was released, and considering NS2 is the flagship of UKW's introduction to the retail games market, it should be doubly important to make sure its players are attracted to the core game before allowing them anywhere near modification to the game.
I have something to say about bunnyhopping (sigh..why do I trouble myself): Comments or speculations about the impact of removing bunnyhopping in NS2 whilst using NS as a reference point are completely, totally, pointless. NS2 will undoubtably have so much new or changed (read: improved) over NS that you cannot compare or reasonably predict what results any changes might bring... so with that in mind, I urge people to please relax your BHpping defences (and offences) and try and live harmoniously until you have something substantial to actually argue about.
Having said that though, I personally am completely in support of removing bunny hopping for <i>exactly</i> the reasons Rhodri pointed out.
There are better solutions than 'bunnyhopping'; even bunnyhopping under a different name with actual <i>implementation</i> into the game so that it <i>looks</i> and <i>feels</i> right (rather than being an engine quirk, turned 'feature'). It's silly to think that any feature in NS2 brought over from NS must behave and be exactly the same, as if NS2 is a port - it's not going to be a port, people; it's going to be an evolution!
So BHppers and anti-BHppers should all just...relax!
But I've said what I wanted to say on the topic. Now it's time for more important things like.... <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/forums/index.php?showtopic=104613" target="_blank">donuts</a>.
Yes, because a game without linux servers, is going to fail "irreparably", and because they already said that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
If they want to sell their game, they have to make a linux server.
And it's 'easy' to do a linux server, for the linux client it's an other story.
We've mentioned a few times that we're going to separate "vanilla" unmodded servers from modded servers. The default will be to play on unmodded servers, but if you want to enter the Wild West, you can click a different tab and join those games. That's how we'll keep both our core experience and allow all the crazy stuff you guys are going to make.
About bunny-hopping: I've never really liked it. I'm hoping to see more creative solution, though I guess Charlie has already hinted enough towards that.
look at crysis... they used it. they get flooded by hackers. now the MP is dead there.
however. i never seen a hacker in TF2 or any other game that uses VAC, eccept counter strike, and even there very few.