<!--quoteo(post=1690074:date=Oct 12 2008, 11:49 AM:name=Squeebo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Squeebo @ Oct 12 2008, 11:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know if this has already been posted but... There's already an engine called the Evolution Engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's a shame - I wonder if there would be any potential lawsuits if the name of UWE's engine was called EvolutioNS ? (slightly different, and giving the name of the game related to it as part of the name)
It was just like you said it would be and we all got a peek. Thank you.
I have been checking frequently and your judgement is, as always, right on the money. Keep doing your thing, keep being yourself, and keep Mr. Finger's camera rolling. You are a genuinely entraining bunch, and it would be nice, after it is all done, to have some sort of record of your journey. Many people are toiling away at their art, their job, their interests, but what you are doing is exceptional. That is why I think everyone here, myself included of course, appreciates the time that you take with the video casts and the forums. We know how precious every moment is to you.
I was also thinking that interaction with the lighting effects is a great opportunity for psychological warfare. If there was more than one way to trigger the adjustment of a lighting effect, then you have players guessing. This could create a level of interaction with the commander too, who may be the only one to distinguish the difference between a new hive or decoy infestation. Then there is also the question of: what happens when a hive or a sensor chamber is destroyed? I imagine sensory chambers could have a nice little "surprise", maybe they emit a flash bang effect when they die, maybe the alien blood it squirts has some kind of defensive mechanism like octopus ink. These could be evolutions controlled by the alien commander (queen/overseer/director?) perhaps?
I'd love to think some of the nagging i did contributed to this choice <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Can i be selfish for a second? can we have tracer bullets for the only reason to see them bounce off walls and watch the lighting change <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />:D
also will gun fire light up room with dynamic lighting as well??
Awesome work guys! I am very impressed with what you have done with the environment!
The only sad this is that teh map editor is beginning to look a lot like the Unreal Tournament 3 Editor which sucks <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
Can you please promise me that once you guys are putting in particle systems, that you utilize soft particles for smoke effects and such? I hate clipping lines with particles and world geometry. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Super impressive guys! The lighting is excellent never seen anything quite like that in a game before. Lighting + dynamic infestation is going to be orgasmic.
This was well worth the wait guys, it's looking fantastic guys!
I'd like to add my vote to the beta testing suggestion, I'd drop some money right here and now to help development and get early access to a beta test!
As most of the readers on this forum are probably aware, that I am a gameplay first, aesthetics second kind of gamer. However with that being said, I really though the dynamic lighting demonstration was very impressive. If an additional donation is required to help test the game, I will definitely pony up some cash for that.
Havn't been on here for a while, but that was mighty impressive. I too would be willing to scrounge up some cash (i'm a poor uni student though so not too much) to beta test the game.
How many games have people wanting to pay to beta test it?? Not that many I wouold assume.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1690166:date=Oct 13 2008, 02:49 PM:name=glimmerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(glimmerman @ Oct 13 2008, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many games have people wanting to pay to beta test it?? Not that many I wouold assume.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Depends if you count 'still in a beta state when released', in which case several Developer/Publisher combos could be described as releasing nothing BUT Beta for the last 5 years...
<!--quoteo(post=1690162:date=Oct 13 2008, 07:52 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Oct 13 2008, 07:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690162"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As most of the readers on this forum are probably aware, that I am a gameplay first, aesthetics second kind of gamer. However with that being said, I really though the dynamic lighting demonstration was very impressive. If an additional donation is required to help test the game, I will definitely pony up some cash for that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want ot make NS2 maps. But i have some questions about the editor.
-Is It possible to import object (mesh) from other 3D program like blender (which is free) ? I'm not talking about a notive format some ASCII export from the 3D program sometimes is more than enough. -Making object or prefab. Grouping objects is called a prefab. It helps modder to copy paste some object all around the map. It help make structures easier, test the gameplay, and then replace these room one by one with clean and beatiful graphics. And yes Gameplay first. Put in the trash beautiful things you can't play is just a waste of time. -Ham(cranky)mer like editor ? Ergonomy will just make the game cool. I mean, Farcry was beautiful but what made his real succes was the editor. Easy to use, WYSIWYG like a playskool product. The game would just have been another hit (still a hit but...) in the landscape without this editor. -Is there any basic AI to implement some automated decorative stuff ? Not with animated model like the sensory chamber we see in the video. Something that can move.
So far you are still here, and as a fan from the first hour (and still is) i'm somehow flattered to see that i bet on the right horse. Keep in mind that the difficulties you went trough weren't bigger than the ones awaiting for you. "Finishing" sometimes is just a really.., ... really difficult task. Don't be afraid to cut the development of 'f*|{ing beautiful little thing' you wanted to include. Patches are there for that.
<!--quoteo(post=1690166:date=Oct 13 2008, 08:49 AM:name=glimmerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(glimmerman @ Oct 13 2008, 08:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many games have people wanting to pay to beta test it?? Not that many I wouold assume.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lots. Really, list the high end commercial titles you'd be willing to pay for early access to, I bet this list is reasonably long. Having people pay for betatesting is generally considered a bad idea, because it gives the impression you owe them something, when in reality, beta testers need to fuddle around with finicky boring stuff for hours and hours and hours until they are sure it's bug free. Small closed betas of people with very little commitment to the game, are all but completely useless.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1690108:date=Oct 12 2008, 05:25 PM:name=phoenixbbs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phoenixbbs @ Oct 12 2008, 05:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a shame - I wonder if there would be any potential lawsuits if the name of UWE's engine was called EvolutioNS ? (slightly different, and giving the name of the game related to it as part of the name)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I second that idea. After watching that video a few times and reading some of the posts on here I'm really excited what they're going to do with this. I think <b>lunchtimemama</b> identified the blueprint accurately.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2008
First I'd like to thank UWE for a Fantastic update.
I had a long think about lighting in Natural Selection after reading some of the forum posts discussing possible lighting techniques. Although I never posted in the thread, for me, every light had to be dynamic. I was confused by the people who didn't want dynamic lights and shadows, for real life is all about that. Immersion is all important.
I'd then like to thank <b>lunchtimemama</b> for expressing most articulately my thoughts, in a way I could only dream of.
It feels like Utopia..
I really believe that the people who will benefit most from their open and recorded system of development is the UWE guys. Sure the community benefits, and the game will benefit, but most of all, when all this is finished, you will have a fully recorded journey, something you can always look back on, for the things that worked, and those that didn't. I just hope you always carry these values throughout your development careers. It's what makes you great.
Wow. I mean WOW. Like someone said on the first page, the moment those blinds opened, I was HOOKED! I'm ecstatic that you guys have moved to your own engine if this is the kind of results you can pull off! And it's just amazing how even the NS1 models and props looked under those lighting effects! And the hive room? *drool* I can't wait to see the hive with glowies floating around.
There are two things about the lighting in the sample map that I didn't like, though. Please understand I know it's just a very simple map to give us the first taste of what you've got. However, I'd like to say them for the sake of future mapping efforts.
1) The hall with the large glass windows seemed a little fake. With the blinds, it makes sense to me that the light would appear to shoot in straight, easily visible lines all the way down to the chair/floor, with little shining or reflecting onto the wide area around that. However, with such large windows in the hall, there should be a lot more reflected light onto the walls and ceilings that are not under the direct light. It seems like only the areas directly in line-of-sight with the "sun" are getting lit, the rest in shadow that doesn't even have much tint of red from the reflected light's color.
2) The fans suffer from a similar problem. Fans like that usually move air from vents, so it would seem to me the light going through them should be more... ambient, I think the word would be. If the light is coming from the outside, I'd imagine it's been reflected through a short duct and has not gone in straight. And again, the light goes in seemingly solid beams, where only the line-of-sight areas get any attention. The light doesn't spread at all to slightly surrounding areas, especially considering how far across the room it' traveled.
I'm not a mapper or a developer of any kind, but these are things that scream out to me as an artist. I hope these points are something possible to achieve rather than pointless nitpicking. Thank you for showing us the footage! It really does look amazing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Wow, really, REALLY nice work guys. Your engine is already better than the 'every visual effect is a hack' 'almost impossible to work with' Source engine. I think it said a lot about the Source engine that you guys decided to write your own. Four years after HL2 release; still no truly successful mods for it [Gmod doesn't count], and the most exciting in-progress mod (NS2) decided that it would be easier to just write a new engine than to work with Source...
Anyway, this vid, along with all those ideas lunchtimemama had about lighting really recaptured my interest in NS2. I think if you released more short video clips from this engine, you could attract a lot of interest from people who haven't played NS1. How about starting with a infestation + dynamic lighting vid? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I'm too busy to keep a eye on the site, but nice to see a newletter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I mapped alot bk in my day and know just how painful it is waiting for compiling and loading etc... Having a real time hl2 map editor kicks ass.
I never played NS1, having got on the Half-Life series at HL2, but between available NS1 gameplay data, and the spectacular effects seen here, I'm seriously considering NS2. I can't wait to see your aliens in a modern engine. It'll feel good to be a wall-crawling alien again like in my Aliens Versus Predator 2 days.
Oh My God!!! This is the kind of stuff I've been waiting forever to see...so awesome! good job guys keep up the good work and please don't give up. Now i can't wait to see the new models...
Oh and make the flashlight have those sweet lighting effects also, don't forget about that!
<!--quoteo(post=1690246:date=Oct 14 2008, 12:39 PM:name=zippy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zippy @ Oct 14 2008, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1690246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm too busy to keep a eye on the site, but nice to see a newletter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I mapped alot bk in my day and know just how painful it is waiting for compiling and loading etc... Having a real time hl2 map editor kicks ass.
Keep it coming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yes and that was a really great idea to send us all newsletters on our emails... I check my email everyday, but i only check this site about once a week! keep that in mind too...
I liked the dark atmosphere. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
Way to go guys, the engine looks great! It's been awhile, but it looks like it'll be well worth the wait. There are so few games out there that really take as creative of an approach or spend as much time on overall quality as you guys.
Comments
That's a shame - I wonder if there would be any potential lawsuits if the name of UWE's engine was called EvolutioNS ? (slightly different, and giving the name of the game related to it as part of the name)
I have been checking frequently and your judgement is, as always, right on the money. Keep doing your thing, keep being yourself, and keep Mr. Finger's camera rolling. You are a genuinely entraining bunch, and it would be nice, after it is all done, to have some sort of record of your journey. Many people are toiling away at their art, their job, their interests, but what you are doing is exceptional. That is why I think everyone here, myself included of course, appreciates the time that you take with the video casts and the forums. We know how precious every moment is to you.
I was also thinking that interaction with the lighting effects is a great opportunity for psychological warfare. If there was more than one way to trigger the adjustment of a lighting effect, then you have players guessing. This could create a level of interaction with the commander too, who may be the only one to distinguish the difference between a new hive or decoy infestation. Then there is also the question of: what happens when a hive or a sensor chamber is destroyed? I imagine sensory chambers could have a nice little "surprise", maybe they emit a flash bang effect when they die, maybe the alien blood it squirts has some kind of defensive mechanism like octopus ink. These could be evolutions controlled by the alien commander (queen/overseer/director?) perhaps?
Good luck on the next phase!
I'd love to think some of the nagging i did contributed to this choice <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
What shadowing technique are you using?
also will gun fire light up room with dynamic lighting as well??
Pretty neat how well the concept art (the red outdoor picture and indoors) matched up to that quick demo run.
I am very impressed with what you have done with the environment!
The only sad this is that teh map editor is beginning to look a lot like the Unreal Tournament 3 Editor which sucks <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I'd like to add my vote to the beta testing suggestion, I'd drop some money right here and now to help development and get early access to a beta test!
Also great move with twitter.
How many games have people wanting to pay to beta test it?? Not that many I wouold assume.
Depends if you count 'still in a beta state when released', in which case several Developer/Publisher combos could be described as releasing nothing BUT Beta for the last 5 years...
Agreed.
-Is It possible to import object (mesh) from other 3D program like blender (which is free) ? I'm not talking about a notive format some ASCII export from the 3D program sometimes is more than enough.
-Making object or prefab. Grouping objects is called a prefab. It helps modder to copy paste some object all around the map. It help make structures easier, test the gameplay, and then replace these room one by one with clean and beatiful graphics. And yes Gameplay first. Put in the trash beautiful things you can't play is just a waste of time.
-Ham(cranky)mer like editor ? Ergonomy will just make the game cool. I mean, Farcry was beautiful but what made his real succes was the editor. Easy to use, WYSIWYG like a playskool product. The game would just have been another hit (still a hit but...) in the landscape without this editor.
-Is there any basic AI to implement some automated decorative stuff ? Not with animated model like the sensory chamber we see in the video. Something that can move.
So far you are still here, and as a fan from the first hour (and still is) i'm somehow flattered to see that i bet on the right horse. Keep in mind that the difficulties you went trough weren't bigger than the ones awaiting for you. "Finishing" sometimes is just a really.., ... really difficult task. Don't be afraid to cut the development of 'f*|{ing beautiful little thing' you wanted to include. Patches are there for that.
Lots. Really, list the high end commercial titles you'd be willing to pay for early access to, I bet this list is reasonably long. Having people pay for betatesting is generally considered a bad idea, because it gives the impression you owe them something, when in reality, beta testers need to fuddle around with finicky boring stuff for hours and hours and hours until they are sure it's bug free. Small closed betas of people with very little commitment to the game, are all but completely useless.
I second that idea. After watching that video a few times and reading some of the posts on here I'm really excited what they're going to do with this. I think <b>lunchtimemama</b> identified the blueprint accurately.
I had a long think about lighting in Natural Selection after reading some of the forum posts discussing possible lighting techniques. Although I never posted in the thread, for me, every light had to be dynamic. I was confused by the people who didn't want dynamic lights and shadows, for real life is all about that. Immersion is all important.
I'd then like to thank <b>lunchtimemama</b> for expressing most articulately my thoughts, in a way I could only dream of.
It feels like Utopia..
I really believe that the people who will benefit most from their open and recorded system of development is the UWE guys. Sure the community benefits, and the game will benefit, but most of all, when all this is finished, you will have a fully recorded journey, something you can always look back on, for the things that worked, and those that didn't. I just hope you always carry these values throughout your development careers. It's what makes you great.
Or will steam map geometry/filetypes somehow be compatible?
Been looking forward to starting on a map for a while.
There are two things about the lighting in the sample map that I didn't like, though. Please understand I know it's just a very simple map to give us the first taste of what you've got. However, I'd like to say them for the sake of future mapping efforts.
1) The hall with the large glass windows seemed a little fake. With the blinds, it makes sense to me that the light would appear to shoot in straight, easily visible lines all the way down to the chair/floor, with little shining or reflecting onto the wide area around that. However, with such large windows in the hall, there should be a lot more reflected light onto the walls and ceilings that are not under the direct light. It seems like only the areas directly in line-of-sight with the "sun" are getting lit, the rest in shadow that doesn't even have much tint of red from the reflected light's color.
2) The fans suffer from a similar problem. Fans like that usually move air from vents, so it would seem to me the light going through them should be more... ambient, I think the word would be. If the light is coming from the outside, I'd imagine it's been reflected through a short duct and has not gone in straight. And again, the light goes in seemingly solid beams, where only the line-of-sight areas get any attention. The light doesn't spread at all to slightly surrounding areas, especially considering how far across the room it' traveled.
I'm not a mapper or a developer of any kind, but these are things that scream out to me as an artist. I hope these points are something possible to achieve rather than pointless nitpicking. Thank you for showing us the footage! It really does look amazing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Anyway, this vid, along with all those ideas lunchtimemama had about lighting really recaptured my interest in NS2. I think if you released more short video clips from this engine, you could attract a lot of interest from people who haven't played NS1. How about starting with a infestation + dynamic lighting vid? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I mapped alot bk in my day and know just how painful it is waiting for compiling and loading etc... Having a real time hl2 map editor kicks ass.
Keep it coming.
GO NS2 GO!!!
Now i can't wait to see the new models...
Oh and make the flashlight have those sweet lighting effects also, don't forget about that!
I mapped alot bk in my day and know just how painful it is waiting for compiling and loading etc... Having a real time hl2 map editor kicks ass.
Keep it coming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yes and that was a really great idea to send us all newsletters on our emails... I check my email everyday, but i only check this site about once a week! keep that in mind too...
Nice lighting etc <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />