Jimyd's Controllable A.I. Bot Expansion.
Jimyd
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Bots should be a whole new aspect, not just some little side thing.</div>I'll just list types of bots.
*Pre Notes* When I say HP values I mean values of current NS1 values that are assigned (but can be tweaked of course). All bots move at player marine run speed as default, unless I say otherwise. All bots cannot attack other bots or support other bots (like Welder bot healing other bots). Bots are capable of friendly fire though (since it is A.I. this rarely happens). Players are capable of welding bots though, so the investment is protectable.
Siege bot (Which has already been made).
*Notes* Make targets selectable, or give a target priority. Like select OC/MC/OC/OC/Hive/(Let A.I. take rest). Might have to balance power because this would allow focus fire. Moves at 75% player run speed. Siege bot costs 25 res if a regular siege turret costs 15 res.
Resupply bot (New reworked concept).
*Notes* First thing first, this bots health would be equivalent to a standard Armory (this is due to it having no weapons) or about 2 1/2 times HP of a regular Turret Factory Turret (this would make the bot a lot weaker HP wise). Commander could tell the bot to weld 1 squad only or 1 player only indefinitely (whichever is more balanced). Bot would weld at 5 second intervals, with 1 second pauses inbetween, so it's not too overpowered. The weld rate is the same as the Marine welder. The healing aspect of this bot would work a little differently. This bot would have a constant heal (up to 3 Marines at a time) at a rate of 3/4 HP per second. Next is the ammunition portion of the bot. Ammunition can only be obtained as a Marine by using +use on the bot, and the ammo will be obtained at 50% the amount of the current armory (although this will be upgradeable). The rate the Marines recieve ammunition is at the rate of the current NS1 armory (can be tweaked of course). Also this bot is a land only bot. The cost of this bot would be 20 res. (Reason being that it is basically an Armory on treads, so it costs double of a single Armory. You could either build 2 Armories at 2 seperate locations, or just build 1 bot that is vulnerable do to only having the HP of 1 Armory (I like this health value better).
*Features Resupply bot* The heal portion of this bot would basically be like the TF2 Engineer's dispenser. What I mean is there would be a visible healing beam for visual recognition. If the TF2 Engineer's dispenser's healing range is 3 feet in that game, then the bot could have its healing range upgraded to 5 feet (theoretical numbers).
The welding range would be the same (3 feet to 5 feet), but you ccan only get the 5 foot range by deploying the sentry. Deploying the sentry makes it immobile (but it can use some of its advanced upgrades). Design wise it could have a little clear glass bubble on the center top of the bot, this is where the heal beams "shoot out" from. The welding proportion would be on the front of the bot like the Siege(MASC) bot. I propose that the bot would have to be looking at a Marine in order to weld him/her (so it would be a fixed "weapon" mount). Ammunition visually would look like a "weapons locker" on the back of the bot, but ammunition can be obtained by using +use anywhere on the bot. However this is only 1 representation of what the bot could look like and is up to the NS2 artists to work out.
Sentry bot (New concept).
*Notes* Can select which target to fire upon, however cannot select mutiple targets. Would aquire targets automaticaly if selected target dies/goes out of LOS(Line Of Sight)/or a target is selected. While idle it would fire on the closest enemy, if no enemies then closest structure. The stats of this would be the same as the standard turretfactory turret, with 50% more health. You could take the Siege bot concept, and start modifying it with a turret instead of a siege cannon. If a standard turret costs 10 res, then this Sentry bot would cost 15 res. Also, if you were to give it dual turret weapons, then the cost of the Sentry bot would still be 15 res with the 50% increased health of a regular turret. I recommend the dual turret approach.
*Features Sentry bot* Design wise I think the Sentry bot should function similar to the Siege bot. When undeployed, the twin guns (I like that version better) would be front mounted weapons and the bot would have to turn(rotate) to target enemies. When the bot deploys, the twin guns raise up and the bot temporarily loses the Propulsion booster upgrades until the bot the bot undeploys. So basically the bot would have a quick attack mode and a combat attack mode. An example would be if a Turret Factory Sentry was a LVL 1 TF2 Engineer Sentry, then a Sentry bot would be like a LVL 2 TF2 Engineer Sentry when it comes to what the weapons would be like.
Scouter bot (Flyer concept).
*Notes 1(Variant 1)* This bot would have 50% of the HP of a standard turret (so 1/2 basically). All this bot would do is directly be commandable by the Commanders input, and just give LOS to spot aliens. Basically this bot would scout to see which resource nodes are taken and where the enemy aliens are. This bot would have (0/ZERO/NO) capabilities of attacking (untill upgraded). This bot would cost 5 res, making it an early game valuable asset; reasing for such little res is because the bot has a low amount of hp.
*Notes 2(Variant 2)* This bot would be a land moving bot, however it would have differnt upgrades to make it more survivable which I will list below.
*Notes 3(Variant 1+2)* If an Observatory is currently not functional on the Marine team, the this bot loses the ability to see all Alien objects. However the bot is still movable. The bot (Variant 1) will cease attacking its target if the bot has the upgrade Zap Battery when the Observatory becomes Non-functional. Bot (Variant 2) would keep its cloaking abilities if the last Observatory goes down. No new Scouter bots may be built until a new Observatory is functional again.
*Features All* I think all bots could be made deployable, with the bots increasing their effective range (I.E. Resupply bot welding at 5 feet instead of 3) so they can be made more useful and unique. You can play with how the "inherent armor values" when undeployed/deployed to see what balances the bots better. However this would make the designs possibly more limited, so it is not a mandatory suggestion.
*Notes(First 4)* These 4 bots should be standard, regardless. Balance them properly and they could add a whole new aspect to this game. Any bots listed after this are just OLD experimental ideas.
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Below are older bots that have been scrapped and reworked into the new Resupply bot.
*Notes Old* I left all the older notes here incase you want to view them, I also moved the specific upgrades they could achieve individually for reference.
Welder bot (Which is in concept).
*Notes* Easier way to make this bot work would to make it a ground vehicle like Siege bot (SB). Commander could tell the bot to heal 1 squad only, or 1 player only indefinitely. Bot would probly heal at 5 second intervals, with 1 second pauses inbetween, so it's not too overpowered. Welder bot costs 10 res.
Weld Plating: Applies to Welder bot. This upgrade would give the welder bot the ability to weld 3 buildings which are the Turret Factory, the Turret, and the Siege Turret; including any variations of them(Advanced/Electrified). Please note this only applies to the buildings and not the Siege/Sentry bot. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
Medic bot (Old concept).
*Notes* Basically a bot like the Welder bot, but would heal HP instead. Probably 2-3 hp per a second while it is in range of a marine, if you were to make it a time based heal. If it were to be instant heal like the medpacks, then the packs would have to respawn ever 15-30 seconds, and would not cost the Commander extra res(Marines would have to +use to use the medpack). Cost of this bot would be 10 res if time based, and 15 res for instant medpack. If you were to include both features on the bot(with advanced upgrade) then bot cost 15/20 res.
Heal Pack: Applies to Medic bot. This would give the medpack supply to this bot, ontop of the standard constant heal (see Medic bot for details). Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost 10 res for upgrade.
Ammunition bot (Old concept).
*Notes* This bot would basically be like a standard armory, however it would not give HP when +use upon. Would have the same HP as a turret. The rate it gives ammo out woul be 75% of current basic Armory (not Advanced Armory) . Limitations could be only 1/3 person(s) at a time can use Ammunition bot. If an Advanced Armory is not currently functioning for the Marine team, then this bot gives ammo at a 50% rate. This bot would cost 15 res, since ammunition is the lifeblood of the marines.
Grenade Stores: Applies to Ammunition bot. Allows ressuply of the hand grenades. Bot requires an active Advanced Armory in order to ressuply grenades, even if it haves the upgrade. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
*Notes All* If 1 bot were have to axed from the original 4 bots, I would choose the Medic bot. If 1 bot were have to be axed from the experimental bots, then I choose the Ammunition bot. The reason for this would be to make the Commander the only one capable of healing/ammo resuppl for the marine team, since this is what makes a good Commander.
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A.I. Construction Factory (Bot Building Production concept).
*Notes* All bots would be made from this factory, and this factory would be able to produce TIER1 bots.
TIER1 pertains to Sentry/Scouter or Medic(OLD)/Ammunition(OLD) bots. This factory would contain all Basic upgrades to TIER1 bots. Factory would cost 10 res, this is due to bots being balanced with their res cost more strictly.
Advanced A.I. Construction Factory (Bot Building Production concept).
*Notes* This is the upgraded version of the standard bot factory. This factory would include all Advanced upgrades to TIER1 bots. Also produces TIER2 bots. TIER2 pertains to Siege/Resupply(NEW) or Welder(OLD) bots. This factory would cost and additional 10 res to upgrade to (costing a total of 20 res). Also contains all Basic/Advanced upgrades to TIER2 bots.
*Features both Factories* Both factories would have a pad that bots can move onto. This is where the bots can be recycled for 75% of their res. Another function is repairing the bots, but this has to be upgraded first. The recycle function of the factory works soon as an A.I. Construction Factory or an Advanced A.I. Construction Factory is functional, with no additional cost.
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Bot upgrades (TIER1, Upgradeable at A.I. Construction Factory).
Enhanced Reconstruction Pad: If you make the factory concept right, then this upgrade can be supported. Basically a small pad will be on the factory where a bot can be told to move to, and start being healed(technically welded since they are made of metal). The repair speed would be about 75% of welder speed, or the same speed the Resupply bot repairs armor at. Limitations would be that only 1 bot may be healed at a time. This upgrade costs 10 res to activate the repair portion of the pad.
Propulsion boosters: Applies to Resupply(NEW)/Sentry/Scouter(Variant 1+2) or Welder(OLD)/Medic(OLD)/Ammunition(OLD) bots. Increases bot movement speed by 10%, this upgrade only applies to newly bought bots. Costs 10 res to upgrade.
Zap Battery: Applies to Scouter (Variant 1) bot. This upgrade give the bot a 5 HP/5 Armor attack. The purpose of this upgrade is not meant for combat, but harassment. With this upgrade the bot can attack any player/structure when ordered to (will not seek targets on its own). The rate of attack is 1 attack/per a second when within range. This would allow a Commander to harass a Alien Resource Tower making an Alien team divide their forces to respond to the decoy threat (this is just one example). Applies to all current and bought bots. This upgrade would cost 5 res.
Cloak Battery: Applies to Scouter (Variant 2) bot. This gives the bot a cloak that makes the bot <b>100%</b> invisible while <b>NOT</b> <b>moving</b>. Remember this is the land variant. Applies to all current and bought bots. This upgrade would cost 5 res.
Bot upgrades (TIER2, Upgradeable at Advanced A.I. Construction Factory).
Advanced Propulsion boosters: Applies to Resupply(NEW)/Sentry/Scouter(Variant 2) or Welder(OLD)/Medic(OLD)/Ammunition(OLD) bots. Increases bot movement speed by 25%%, this upgrade only applies to newly bought bots. Costs 15 res to upgrade.
Weld Plating: Applies to Resupply bot. This upgrade would give the welder bot the ability to weld 3 buildings which are the Turret Factory, the Turret, and the Siege Turret; including any variations of them(Advanced/Electrified). Please note this only applies to the buildings and not the Siege/Sentry bot. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 5 res.
Heal Pack: Applies to Resupply bot. This would give the medpack supply to this bot, ontop of the standard constant heal. This upgrade would supply the bot with a single medpack every 20/30(whichever more balanced) seconds. The medpack is obtained by using +use on the bot, and the bot can only have 1 medpack available at a time. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost 10 res for upgrade.
Advanced Resupply: Applies to Resupply bot. This upgrade lets the bot resupply ammunition at the default rate of a standard Armory. Another feature is the ability to replenish hand grenades. Bot requires an active Advanced Armory in order to ressuply grenades, even if it haves the upgrade. The rate the bot replenishes Hand Grenades 1 per 10 seconds. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
Heated Slugs(You can probably think of a more unique name): Applies to Sentry bot. This increases the damage of the bot by 25%(single turret gun)/15%(dual turret gun) and is applied to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
Advanced Cloak Battery: Applies to Scouter (Variant 2) bot. This gives the bot a cloak that makes the bot <b>90%</b> invisible while <b>moving</b>. Remember this is the land variant. Applies to all current and bought bots. This upgrade would cost 10 res.
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Upgrade info.
*Notes* Obviously a Commander would not be able to get every single bot and upgrade at the start of the game, otherwise his Marines would suffer (I'm basing this off of from a 6v6 game). Now obviously a larger game with a bigger res pool, a Commander could support this side of the Tech Tree a lot more while still supporting his Marines a great deal. The A.I. tech tree is an alternative, and is not something a commander has to use. Just like how the Commander has the option to build a Turret Factory, he can if he wants to, but it is not mandatory to build one.
*Features Cloak (Variant 2)* If the bot is <b>damaged</b>, then the bot drops its cloak and gradually regains full cloaking functionality after 5 seconds. An alternative visual represent would be to have the bot "shimmer" for 5 seconds. If the bot can be parasited, the the bot would show at <b>75% cloak capacity while the Alien flashlight is on</b> (so the use of the bot is not completely negated).
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Building requirements (Tech Tree).
Armory: Requires nothing to be built, can be droped at anytime.
Advanced Armory: Requires Armory (upgrades from Armory).
Observatory: Requires nothing to be built, can be droped at anytime.
A.I. Construction Factory: Requires Armory.
Advanced A.I. Construction Factory: Requires A.I. Construction Factory.
Siege bot: Requires Advanced A.I. Construction Factory.
Resupply(NEW) bot: Requires Advanced A.I. Construction Factory/Advanced Armory.
Sentry bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory.
Scouter bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory/Observatory.
Welder(OLD) bot: Requires Advanced A.I. Construction Factory.
Medic(OLD) bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory.
Ammunition(OLD) bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory/Advanced Armory.
So essentially:
Armory->A.I. Construction Factory->Sentry bot/Scouter bot (If Observatory present)/Medic(OLD) bot/Ammunition(OLD) Bot (If Advanced Armory present).
Armory->A.I. Construction Factory->Advanced A.I. Construction Factory->Siege bot/Resupply(NEW) bot (If Advanced Armory present)/Welder(OLD) bot.
Armory->Advanced Armory.
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Other balances (Tech Tree).
Hand grenades: This upgrade would require an Armory for it to be purchased. If an Advanced Armory is functioning, then Marines can resupply their grenades. Marines carry 3 grenades. This upgrade costs 10/15 res.
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Conclusion. (To Flayra =D).
*Final Thoughts* First I would like to show you PR presentation wise on why this is a good idea.
Box 1: Natural Selection 2. Aliens. Marines with Commander.
Box 2: Natural Selection 2. Aliens. Marines with Commander, and <b>SIX</b> <b>unique</b> controllable A.I. bots!
The box that would sell more from a cover art perspective would be the one that has the most features on it. Sure you can have some unique graphics of a Skulk and a Marine on the front cover, but at first glance to a customer there wouldn't seem to be much detail or uniqueness to the game. (Plus how many games do you know where you can control 4 unique A.I. bots ontop of Marine troops plus with it being a FPS game... I can't think of any.) So as a "POP OUT" factor to an impulse buyer/customer in a store, Box 2 would make that game really stand out.
Now for the reasons of gameplay. Having A.I. controllable bots opens up a whole new Dynamic to the Commander, which basically means allowing the Commander to directly support his troops indirectly with his A.I. bots. The reason you should go this route is because the Marine and Alien team can see the direct physical influence/impact the Commander is having on the game. I honestly think "casting area effect spells" would not be that interactive for everyone in the game, and would get pretty boring after awhile after seeing the same colored halo appearing out of thin air again and again. Having A.I. bots (and with a variety of them, <b>IMPORTANT</b>) makes the gameplay experience even more enriched and dynamic, giving an overall more unique playing experience.
With all that I have said in my thread, everything is subject to balance/play testing/tweaks/modifications/etc. to be ironed out into workable dynamic to NS2. If you (Flayra) do happen to stumble upon this thread, please respond to the ideas and say whether or not if it is at all a possibility (Podcast/Videocast/Post response) that you would consider. Now I'm not saying this has to be implemented, but that it is a very unique idea to consider. With that I would really love a detailed response if time does permit, whether it is a good/bad/positive/negative response.
Here's something I made when the first NS was released: <img src="http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9573/23410pb4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
*Pre Notes* When I say HP values I mean values of current NS1 values that are assigned (but can be tweaked of course). All bots move at player marine run speed as default, unless I say otherwise. All bots cannot attack other bots or support other bots (like Welder bot healing other bots). Bots are capable of friendly fire though (since it is A.I. this rarely happens). Players are capable of welding bots though, so the investment is protectable.
Siege bot (Which has already been made).
*Notes* Make targets selectable, or give a target priority. Like select OC/MC/OC/OC/Hive/(Let A.I. take rest). Might have to balance power because this would allow focus fire. Moves at 75% player run speed. Siege bot costs 25 res if a regular siege turret costs 15 res.
Resupply bot (New reworked concept).
*Notes* First thing first, this bots health would be equivalent to a standard Armory (this is due to it having no weapons) or about 2 1/2 times HP of a regular Turret Factory Turret (this would make the bot a lot weaker HP wise). Commander could tell the bot to weld 1 squad only or 1 player only indefinitely (whichever is more balanced). Bot would weld at 5 second intervals, with 1 second pauses inbetween, so it's not too overpowered. The weld rate is the same as the Marine welder. The healing aspect of this bot would work a little differently. This bot would have a constant heal (up to 3 Marines at a time) at a rate of 3/4 HP per second. Next is the ammunition portion of the bot. Ammunition can only be obtained as a Marine by using +use on the bot, and the ammo will be obtained at 50% the amount of the current armory (although this will be upgradeable). The rate the Marines recieve ammunition is at the rate of the current NS1 armory (can be tweaked of course). Also this bot is a land only bot. The cost of this bot would be 20 res. (Reason being that it is basically an Armory on treads, so it costs double of a single Armory. You could either build 2 Armories at 2 seperate locations, or just build 1 bot that is vulnerable do to only having the HP of 1 Armory (I like this health value better).
*Features Resupply bot* The heal portion of this bot would basically be like the TF2 Engineer's dispenser. What I mean is there would be a visible healing beam for visual recognition. If the TF2 Engineer's dispenser's healing range is 3 feet in that game, then the bot could have its healing range upgraded to 5 feet (theoretical numbers).
The welding range would be the same (3 feet to 5 feet), but you ccan only get the 5 foot range by deploying the sentry. Deploying the sentry makes it immobile (but it can use some of its advanced upgrades). Design wise it could have a little clear glass bubble on the center top of the bot, this is where the heal beams "shoot out" from. The welding proportion would be on the front of the bot like the Siege(MASC) bot. I propose that the bot would have to be looking at a Marine in order to weld him/her (so it would be a fixed "weapon" mount). Ammunition visually would look like a "weapons locker" on the back of the bot, but ammunition can be obtained by using +use anywhere on the bot. However this is only 1 representation of what the bot could look like and is up to the NS2 artists to work out.
Sentry bot (New concept).
*Notes* Can select which target to fire upon, however cannot select mutiple targets. Would aquire targets automaticaly if selected target dies/goes out of LOS(Line Of Sight)/or a target is selected. While idle it would fire on the closest enemy, if no enemies then closest structure. The stats of this would be the same as the standard turretfactory turret, with 50% more health. You could take the Siege bot concept, and start modifying it with a turret instead of a siege cannon. If a standard turret costs 10 res, then this Sentry bot would cost 15 res. Also, if you were to give it dual turret weapons, then the cost of the Sentry bot would still be 15 res with the 50% increased health of a regular turret. I recommend the dual turret approach.
*Features Sentry bot* Design wise I think the Sentry bot should function similar to the Siege bot. When undeployed, the twin guns (I like that version better) would be front mounted weapons and the bot would have to turn(rotate) to target enemies. When the bot deploys, the twin guns raise up and the bot temporarily loses the Propulsion booster upgrades until the bot the bot undeploys. So basically the bot would have a quick attack mode and a combat attack mode. An example would be if a Turret Factory Sentry was a LVL 1 TF2 Engineer Sentry, then a Sentry bot would be like a LVL 2 TF2 Engineer Sentry when it comes to what the weapons would be like.
Scouter bot (Flyer concept).
*Notes 1(Variant 1)* This bot would have 50% of the HP of a standard turret (so 1/2 basically). All this bot would do is directly be commandable by the Commanders input, and just give LOS to spot aliens. Basically this bot would scout to see which resource nodes are taken and where the enemy aliens are. This bot would have (0/ZERO/NO) capabilities of attacking (untill upgraded). This bot would cost 5 res, making it an early game valuable asset; reasing for such little res is because the bot has a low amount of hp.
*Notes 2(Variant 2)* This bot would be a land moving bot, however it would have differnt upgrades to make it more survivable which I will list below.
*Notes 3(Variant 1+2)* If an Observatory is currently not functional on the Marine team, the this bot loses the ability to see all Alien objects. However the bot is still movable. The bot (Variant 1) will cease attacking its target if the bot has the upgrade Zap Battery when the Observatory becomes Non-functional. Bot (Variant 2) would keep its cloaking abilities if the last Observatory goes down. No new Scouter bots may be built until a new Observatory is functional again.
*Features All* I think all bots could be made deployable, with the bots increasing their effective range (I.E. Resupply bot welding at 5 feet instead of 3) so they can be made more useful and unique. You can play with how the "inherent armor values" when undeployed/deployed to see what balances the bots better. However this would make the designs possibly more limited, so it is not a mandatory suggestion.
*Notes(First 4)* These 4 bots should be standard, regardless. Balance them properly and they could add a whole new aspect to this game. Any bots listed after this are just OLD experimental ideas.
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Below are older bots that have been scrapped and reworked into the new Resupply bot.
*Notes Old* I left all the older notes here incase you want to view them, I also moved the specific upgrades they could achieve individually for reference.
Welder bot (Which is in concept).
*Notes* Easier way to make this bot work would to make it a ground vehicle like Siege bot (SB). Commander could tell the bot to heal 1 squad only, or 1 player only indefinitely. Bot would probly heal at 5 second intervals, with 1 second pauses inbetween, so it's not too overpowered. Welder bot costs 10 res.
Weld Plating: Applies to Welder bot. This upgrade would give the welder bot the ability to weld 3 buildings which are the Turret Factory, the Turret, and the Siege Turret; including any variations of them(Advanced/Electrified). Please note this only applies to the buildings and not the Siege/Sentry bot. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
Medic bot (Old concept).
*Notes* Basically a bot like the Welder bot, but would heal HP instead. Probably 2-3 hp per a second while it is in range of a marine, if you were to make it a time based heal. If it were to be instant heal like the medpacks, then the packs would have to respawn ever 15-30 seconds, and would not cost the Commander extra res(Marines would have to +use to use the medpack). Cost of this bot would be 10 res if time based, and 15 res for instant medpack. If you were to include both features on the bot(with advanced upgrade) then bot cost 15/20 res.
Heal Pack: Applies to Medic bot. This would give the medpack supply to this bot, ontop of the standard constant heal (see Medic bot for details). Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost 10 res for upgrade.
Ammunition bot (Old concept).
*Notes* This bot would basically be like a standard armory, however it would not give HP when +use upon. Would have the same HP as a turret. The rate it gives ammo out woul be 75% of current basic Armory (not Advanced Armory) . Limitations could be only 1/3 person(s) at a time can use Ammunition bot. If an Advanced Armory is not currently functioning for the Marine team, then this bot gives ammo at a 50% rate. This bot would cost 15 res, since ammunition is the lifeblood of the marines.
Grenade Stores: Applies to Ammunition bot. Allows ressuply of the hand grenades. Bot requires an active Advanced Armory in order to ressuply grenades, even if it haves the upgrade. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
*Notes All* If 1 bot were have to axed from the original 4 bots, I would choose the Medic bot. If 1 bot were have to be axed from the experimental bots, then I choose the Ammunition bot. The reason for this would be to make the Commander the only one capable of healing/ammo resuppl for the marine team, since this is what makes a good Commander.
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A.I. Construction Factory (Bot Building Production concept).
*Notes* All bots would be made from this factory, and this factory would be able to produce TIER1 bots.
TIER1 pertains to Sentry/Scouter or Medic(OLD)/Ammunition(OLD) bots. This factory would contain all Basic upgrades to TIER1 bots. Factory would cost 10 res, this is due to bots being balanced with their res cost more strictly.
Advanced A.I. Construction Factory (Bot Building Production concept).
*Notes* This is the upgraded version of the standard bot factory. This factory would include all Advanced upgrades to TIER1 bots. Also produces TIER2 bots. TIER2 pertains to Siege/Resupply(NEW) or Welder(OLD) bots. This factory would cost and additional 10 res to upgrade to (costing a total of 20 res). Also contains all Basic/Advanced upgrades to TIER2 bots.
*Features both Factories* Both factories would have a pad that bots can move onto. This is where the bots can be recycled for 75% of their res. Another function is repairing the bots, but this has to be upgraded first. The recycle function of the factory works soon as an A.I. Construction Factory or an Advanced A.I. Construction Factory is functional, with no additional cost.
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Bot upgrades (TIER1, Upgradeable at A.I. Construction Factory).
Enhanced Reconstruction Pad: If you make the factory concept right, then this upgrade can be supported. Basically a small pad will be on the factory where a bot can be told to move to, and start being healed(technically welded since they are made of metal). The repair speed would be about 75% of welder speed, or the same speed the Resupply bot repairs armor at. Limitations would be that only 1 bot may be healed at a time. This upgrade costs 10 res to activate the repair portion of the pad.
Propulsion boosters: Applies to Resupply(NEW)/Sentry/Scouter(Variant 1+2) or Welder(OLD)/Medic(OLD)/Ammunition(OLD) bots. Increases bot movement speed by 10%, this upgrade only applies to newly bought bots. Costs 10 res to upgrade.
Zap Battery: Applies to Scouter (Variant 1) bot. This upgrade give the bot a 5 HP/5 Armor attack. The purpose of this upgrade is not meant for combat, but harassment. With this upgrade the bot can attack any player/structure when ordered to (will not seek targets on its own). The rate of attack is 1 attack/per a second when within range. This would allow a Commander to harass a Alien Resource Tower making an Alien team divide their forces to respond to the decoy threat (this is just one example). Applies to all current and bought bots. This upgrade would cost 5 res.
Cloak Battery: Applies to Scouter (Variant 2) bot. This gives the bot a cloak that makes the bot <b>100%</b> invisible while <b>NOT</b> <b>moving</b>. Remember this is the land variant. Applies to all current and bought bots. This upgrade would cost 5 res.
Bot upgrades (TIER2, Upgradeable at Advanced A.I. Construction Factory).
Advanced Propulsion boosters: Applies to Resupply(NEW)/Sentry/Scouter(Variant 2) or Welder(OLD)/Medic(OLD)/Ammunition(OLD) bots. Increases bot movement speed by 25%%, this upgrade only applies to newly bought bots. Costs 15 res to upgrade.
Weld Plating: Applies to Resupply bot. This upgrade would give the welder bot the ability to weld 3 buildings which are the Turret Factory, the Turret, and the Siege Turret; including any variations of them(Advanced/Electrified). Please note this only applies to the buildings and not the Siege/Sentry bot. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 5 res.
Heal Pack: Applies to Resupply bot. This would give the medpack supply to this bot, ontop of the standard constant heal. This upgrade would supply the bot with a single medpack every 20/30(whichever more balanced) seconds. The medpack is obtained by using +use on the bot, and the bot can only have 1 medpack available at a time. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost 10 res for upgrade.
Advanced Resupply: Applies to Resupply bot. This upgrade lets the bot resupply ammunition at the default rate of a standard Armory. Another feature is the ability to replenish hand grenades. Bot requires an active Advanced Armory in order to ressuply grenades, even if it haves the upgrade. The rate the bot replenishes Hand Grenades 1 per 10 seconds. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
Heated Slugs(You can probably think of a more unique name): Applies to Sentry bot. This increases the damage of the bot by 25%(single turret gun)/15%(dual turret gun) and is applied to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
Advanced Cloak Battery: Applies to Scouter (Variant 2) bot. This gives the bot a cloak that makes the bot <b>90%</b> invisible while <b>moving</b>. Remember this is the land variant. Applies to all current and bought bots. This upgrade would cost 10 res.
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Upgrade info.
*Notes* Obviously a Commander would not be able to get every single bot and upgrade at the start of the game, otherwise his Marines would suffer (I'm basing this off of from a 6v6 game). Now obviously a larger game with a bigger res pool, a Commander could support this side of the Tech Tree a lot more while still supporting his Marines a great deal. The A.I. tech tree is an alternative, and is not something a commander has to use. Just like how the Commander has the option to build a Turret Factory, he can if he wants to, but it is not mandatory to build one.
*Features Cloak (Variant 2)* If the bot is <b>damaged</b>, then the bot drops its cloak and gradually regains full cloaking functionality after 5 seconds. An alternative visual represent would be to have the bot "shimmer" for 5 seconds. If the bot can be parasited, the the bot would show at <b>75% cloak capacity while the Alien flashlight is on</b> (so the use of the bot is not completely negated).
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Building requirements (Tech Tree).
Armory: Requires nothing to be built, can be droped at anytime.
Advanced Armory: Requires Armory (upgrades from Armory).
Observatory: Requires nothing to be built, can be droped at anytime.
A.I. Construction Factory: Requires Armory.
Advanced A.I. Construction Factory: Requires A.I. Construction Factory.
Siege bot: Requires Advanced A.I. Construction Factory.
Resupply(NEW) bot: Requires Advanced A.I. Construction Factory/Advanced Armory.
Sentry bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory.
Scouter bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory/Observatory.
Welder(OLD) bot: Requires Advanced A.I. Construction Factory.
Medic(OLD) bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory.
Ammunition(OLD) bot: Requires A.I. Construction Factory/Advanced Armory.
So essentially:
Armory->A.I. Construction Factory->Sentry bot/Scouter bot (If Observatory present)/Medic(OLD) bot/Ammunition(OLD) Bot (If Advanced Armory present).
Armory->A.I. Construction Factory->Advanced A.I. Construction Factory->Siege bot/Resupply(NEW) bot (If Advanced Armory present)/Welder(OLD) bot.
Armory->Advanced Armory.
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Other balances (Tech Tree).
Hand grenades: This upgrade would require an Armory for it to be purchased. If an Advanced Armory is functioning, then Marines can resupply their grenades. Marines carry 3 grenades. This upgrade costs 10/15 res.
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Conclusion. (To Flayra =D).
*Final Thoughts* First I would like to show you PR presentation wise on why this is a good idea.
Box 1: Natural Selection 2. Aliens. Marines with Commander.
Box 2: Natural Selection 2. Aliens. Marines with Commander, and <b>SIX</b> <b>unique</b> controllable A.I. bots!
The box that would sell more from a cover art perspective would be the one that has the most features on it. Sure you can have some unique graphics of a Skulk and a Marine on the front cover, but at first glance to a customer there wouldn't seem to be much detail or uniqueness to the game. (Plus how many games do you know where you can control 4 unique A.I. bots ontop of Marine troops plus with it being a FPS game... I can't think of any.) So as a "POP OUT" factor to an impulse buyer/customer in a store, Box 2 would make that game really stand out.
Now for the reasons of gameplay. Having A.I. controllable bots opens up a whole new Dynamic to the Commander, which basically means allowing the Commander to directly support his troops indirectly with his A.I. bots. The reason you should go this route is because the Marine and Alien team can see the direct physical influence/impact the Commander is having on the game. I honestly think "casting area effect spells" would not be that interactive for everyone in the game, and would get pretty boring after awhile after seeing the same colored halo appearing out of thin air again and again. Having A.I. bots (and with a variety of them, <b>IMPORTANT</b>) makes the gameplay experience even more enriched and dynamic, giving an overall more unique playing experience.
With all that I have said in my thread, everything is subject to balance/play testing/tweaks/modifications/etc. to be ironed out into workable dynamic to NS2. If you (Flayra) do happen to stumble upon this thread, please respond to the ideas and say whether or not if it is at all a possibility (Podcast/Videocast/Post response) that you would consider. Now I'm not saying this has to be implemented, but that it is a very unique idea to consider. With that I would really love a detailed response if time does permit, whether it is a good/bad/positive/negative response.
Here's something I made when the first NS was released: <img src="http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9573/23410pb4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Comments
And is that fade actually doing the 'fonze'?
And is that fade actually doing the 'fonze'?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you were being sarcastic, but if not. Of course I don't plan on making any of these, this is merely a suggestion/idea thread/post you silly.
The Fade is a sex symbol, what can I say.
Why do we need separate entities for ammo bots, med bots and weld bots?
CNN News poll suggests that only 2 readers at most will read the OP.
CNN News poll suggests that only 2 readers at most will read the OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because then the bot runs into the problem of being too useful and overpowered. However with proper balancing you could make it work. But there is another problem, the design problem. How you gonna fit everthing on that bot, while still making it look somewhat Sci-Fi. You could make a bot that basically has a TF2 Engineer dispenser on top of it (Including the bot Upgrades), but don't you think that would look a little silly?
Also you wouldnt have to create 3 completely unique new bots for the Ammunition/Medic/Weld bots. What I mean is that they could all have the same base track configuration for moving around, just the little "device" on the top center of the bot would be differnt. Basically what I am saying is the frame can be interchangeable with differnt devices, including minor visual tweaks (I.E. Medic bot has a red cross painted on it or something).
Plus here is another side note, it makes the commander have to be active with his marines and put those micro/macro skills to use (to some extent). Like I said if the bot was modeled right, It wouldn't be too hard to interchange the charastics of said bot.
Oh and these bots should be 75%/50% the size of the Siege bot (applies to all other bots), with exception to the Scouter (Flyer Variant 1) bot since it would have a unique model.
And I know it is a WALL OF TEXT, because it is suppose to be, I didn't want to throw out some hashed together idea that would require 20+ more posts later to explain it, thus making it get lost in the forums.
I can't imagine an "ammo bot" being terribly useful by itself if the armory still dispenses ammunition. I'd rather have medpacks and ammo be distributed by the commander. (the weldbot can provide something like 1/5of a clip and 10hp per use while the commander will still give 50hp and 1clip per medpack/ammopack respectively)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And I know it is a WALL OF TEXT, because it is suppose to be, I didn't want to throw out some hashed together idea that would require 20+ more posts later to explain it, thus making it get lost in the forums.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As opposed to people not reading your post in the first place due to WOT.
Need more opinions to make changes and add/detract features of the bots where needed.
Since NS2 is going to have A.I. controllable bots, might as well make it fully integrated into the game and not just some side gimmick. Only way to accomplish is to go <b>fully detailed</b> into the idea, and not 1 sentence idea threads/posts over and over.
So basically, lets just merge all A.I. bot threads here, that way we can have a good controlled and centered discussion that can take place about this aspect of the game.
WAY TOO MANY BOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm one of the people who fear robots will be the end of mankind....
no not really, but I think NS2 should keep the number of bots to a bare minimum.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104981&st=0&gopid=1691186&#entry1691186" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...p;#entry1691186</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104993" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=104993</a>
You have to merge some of those bots together, like scrapping the ammo and health bots and just making a general support bot. I don't think the comm will have the time for anymore than management of 2 or 3 kinds of npcs. Remember that bots with multiple uses aren't necessarily overpowered, since we can balance them using other methods like resource cost.
Also, aNytiMe you are the most negative person I have seen so far on these forums : <
Hmm, I would love it if they made an expansion pack....WITH A CAMPAIGN! TWO CAMPAIGNS! ONE KHARRA, ONE FRONTIERSMEN! That'd be awsome, and a movie at the beginning of both showing and explaining what happening in NS1, the first contact between the two species.....a man can dream.....a man can dream.
Resupply bot (New reworked concept).
*Notes* First thing first, this bots health would be equivalent to a standard Armory (this is due to it having no weapons) or about 2 1/2 times HP of a regular Turret Factory Turret (this would make the bot a lot weaker HP wise). Commander could tell the bot to weld 1 squad only or 1 player only indefinitely (whichever is more balanced). Bot would weld at 5 second intervals, with 1 second pauses inbetween, so it's not too overpowered. The weld rate is the same as the Marine welder. The healing aspect of this bot would work a little differently. This bot would have a constant heal (up to 3 Marines at a time) at a rate of 3/4 HP per second. Next is the ammunition portion of the bot. Ammunition can only be obtained as a Marine by using +use on the bot, and the ammo will be obtained at 50% the amount of the current armory (although this will be upgradeable). The rate the Marines recieve ammunition is at the rate of the current NS1 armory (can be tweaked of course). Also this bot is a land only bot. The cost of this bot would be 20 res. (Reason being that it is basically an Armory on treads, so it costs double of a single Armory. You could either build 2 Armories at 2 seperate locations, or just build 1 bot that is vulnerable do to only having the HP of 1 Armory (I like this health value better).
*Features Resupply bot* The heal portion of this bot would basically be like the TF2 Engineer's dispenser. What I mean is there would be a visible healing beam for visual recognition. If the TF2 Engineer's dispenser's healing range is 3 feet in that game, then the bot could have its healing range upgraded to 5 feet (theoretical numbers).
The welding range would be the same (3 feet to 5 feet), but you ccan only get the 5 foot range by deploying the sentry. Deploying the sentry makes it immobile (but it can use some of its advanced upgrades). Design wise it could have a little clear glass bubble on the center top of the bot, this is where the heal beams "shoot out" from. The welding proportion would be on the front of the bot like the Siege(MASC) bot. I propose that the bot would have to be looking at a Marine in order to weld him/her (so it would be a fixed "weapon" mount). Ammunition visually would look like a "weapons locker" on the back of the bot, but ammunition can be obtained by using +use anywhere on the bot. However this is only 1 representation of what the bot could look like and is up to the NS2 artists to work out.
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Weld Plating: Applies to Resupply bot. This upgrade would give the welder bot the ability to weld 3 buildings which are the Turret Factory, the Turret, and the Siege Turret; including any variations of them(Advanced/Electrified). Please note this only applies to the buildings and not the Siege/Sentry bot. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 5 res.
Heal Pack: Applies to Resupply bot. This would give the medpack supply to this bot, ontop of the standard constant heal. This upgrade would supply the bot with a single medpack every 20/30(whichever more balanced) seconds. The medpack is obtained by using +use on the bot, and the bot can only have 1 medpack available at a time. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost 10 res for upgrade.
Advanced Resupply: Applies to Resupply bot. This upgrade lets the bot resupply ammunition at the default rate of a standard Armory. Another feature is the ability to replenish hand grenades. Bot requires an active Advanced Armory in order to ressuply grenades, even if it haves the upgrade. The rate the bot replenishes Hand Grenades 1 per 10 seconds. Applies to all current and bought bots. Cost of upgrade 10 res.
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Upgrade info.
*Notes* Obviously a Commander would not be able to get every single bot and upgrade at the start of the game, otherwise his Marines would suffer (I'm basing this off of from a 6v6 game). Now obviously a larger game with a bigger res pool, a Commander could support this side of the Tech Tree a lot more while still supporting his Marines a great deal. The A.I. tech tree is an alternative, and is not something a commander has to use. Just like how the Commander has the option to build a Turret Factory, he can if he wants to, but it is not mandatory to build one.
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Other stuff:
*Features both Factories* Both factories would have a pad that bots can move onto. This is where the bots can be recycled for 75% of their res. Another function is repairing the bots, but this has to be upgraded first. The recycle function of the factory works soon as an A.I. Construction Factory or an Advanced A.I. Construction Factory is functional, with no additional cost.
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*Features Cloak (Variant 2)* If the bot is <b>damaged</b>, then the bot drops its cloak and gradually regains full cloaking functionality after 5 seconds. An alternative visual represent would be to have the bot "shimmer" for 5 seconds. If the bot can be parasited, the the bot would show at <b>75% cloak capacity while the Alien flashlight is on</b> (so the use of the bot is not completely negated).
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*Additional Thoughts* I updated the whole post thoroughly and did some wording changes here and there. With the combination of the Weld/Medic/Ammunition bots into the Resupply bot, I think this(these?) idea(s?) would be very achievable. This reduces the number of unique bots to 4. Concerns are would this be too much micromanagement, which I think would not be because a Commander does not necessarily have to build a 4 A.I. bots.
<b>Another important detail I would like to point out is that Commanding currently is very boring. This is coming from a person who has a high APM(Actions Per Minute). There is not much to do in the current state of NS1 actively. Mostly you are sitting and waiting for your Marines to be damaged I'd say 50% of the game (because there is nothing else to do actively). Adding the A.I. bots can change this, if you were to implement them and use them as Commander in the game.</b>
it feels strange that we should have now marines whit guns and dozen bots vs aliens.
also it sounds very unbalanced. what do the aliens get? a part of the balance was that alien players had fast healing and movement options, while the marines need to come back to base.
also, why? do we <u>need</u> this bots? are they a essential key element of the NS2 gameplay to win?
it feels strange that we should have now marines whit guns and dozen bots vs aliens.
also it sounds very unbalanced. what do the aliens get? a part of the balance was that alien players had fast healing and movement options, while the marines need to come back to base.
also, why? do we <u>need</u> this bots? are they a essential key element of the NS2 gameplay to win?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The marines never needed to come back to the base for healing, the Commander can drop medpacks.
Remember, only the Commander has control of where the bots move, so the standard Marine does not achieve any movement bonuses.
Another thing, I doubt you would see <b>dozens</b> of bots in a single game, due to resource balancing. In a larger game, 16v16, you could probably see a dozen or so (over the course of the game). Remember, the bots can be destroyed and it would be very hard to keep every single bot alive that is produced over the course of a game.
What do the Aliens get? This would be a different thread entirely and different ideas entirely. I'm sure the DEV team would bolster both the Marines and Aliens equally with new content and features.
The A.I. bots would not be a major gameplay mechanic in the game, but it would definitely be a major feature when a customer is looking to buy the game. For example, the Turret Factory/Turret/Siege Turret are not a core gameplay mechanic in the game, but they are part of it. They are what add variety to that game, and the A.I. bots add a <b>new</b> variety to the upcoming NS2 game.
That is bull######. The comm in NS has extremely little micro. When was the last time you played star craft?
<!--quoteo(post=1694626:date=Nov 29 2008, 06:37 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sirot @ Nov 29 2008, 06:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, aNytiMe you are the most negative person I have seen so far on these forums : <<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, I have to bash people for not knowing the first thing about NS due to ignorance/being new.
Exactly what I mean, most of the time I'm sitting in the Command Chair waiting for something to happen or for something to do (like click on the next Tech Upgrade).
<!--quoteo(post=1694648:date=Nov 29 2008, 02:53 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Nov 29 2008, 02:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1694648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sorry, I have to bash people for not knowing the first thing about NS due to ignorance/being new.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True enough but you don't have to be so demeaning though, I do welcome any and all of the posts in this thread. Cheeky Kitty =^_^=
You know that aNytiMe is actually just Domining with another account?
Whether he was banned for being a complete gob######e, or he just felt his welcome had worn out (understatement) as Domining, I don't know.
But its wearing out fast as aNytiMe, too <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Whether he was banned for being a complete gob######e, or he just felt his welcome had worn out (understatement) as Domining, I don't know.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong on all three accounts. It isn't hard to realize that posting on these forums is a waste of time in every way imaginable.
Kinda =) Idrc, I'll still post.
Needs more views and suggestions. More variety equals possibly more fun. =)