I think I may still be in low sec space with my main and alt.
I really don't want to get jumped at a gate, though it's only about 2 gates to safety.
Seriously hopped I ended subscription in a safe zone lol. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
After all the hype back on this game due to recent events, I decided to try this game out again, since the last time I tried it was way back in 2005. So Friday I got a new trial account and dove in head first!
Ended up uninstalling Sunday night. Whoever said it was like a completely different game now was wrong. Still boring... :(
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
edited February 2009
It's a completely different game the same way that NS 1.0 or 1.04 is a completely different game then NS 3.0.
Capiche?
On the surface it may look similar Mr.Maniac but the amount of new content and mechanis... it's the same game sure but it plays quite differently. When I say it's still the same game, I mean that there are still internet spaceships and universe-wide PVP from markets to asteroid belts.
I still believe anyone who doesn't find EVE fun is either not a geek or is doing it wrong.
There are numbers, spaceships and explosions not necessarily in that order! What's not to love!
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1700623:date=Feb 17 2009, 12:59 AM:name=NeonSpyder)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(NeonSpyder @ Feb 17 2009, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still believe anyone who doesn't find EVE fun is either not a geek or is doing it wrong.
There are numbers, spaceships and explosions not necessarily in that order! What's not to love!
Math! Big Booms! Whee!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play games to get <i>away</i> from having to plan my career down to the smallest detail. I don't want to have to keep a detailed profit / loss spreadsheet when I play a game.
I sincerely doubt the game has suddenly gotten interesting combat mechanics. When I last checked (which was two years ago), combat consisted of the following: Click on pirate ship. Click "orbit." Click weapon. Wait for pirate ship to pop. Repeat ad libitum/nauseam/infinitum. As long as I can "fight" while essentially asleep at the keyboard, that part of the game holds no allure for me.
Then there was "questing" or missions or whatever it was called. The two kinds I stumbled upon were either kill quests (see above for why they suck) or courier quests. A courier quest consisted of setting your destination, hitting "autopilot," then walking away to do your laundry, returning twenty minutes later to a finished quest. Remember how we sometimes joke about those really stupid quests in other MMOs where we have to deliver a letter to a guy who is TEN METRES from the quest giver? Yeah, this is the alternative. I'll take the stupid quests I can complete in twenty seconds over the stupid quests that take twenty minutes, please.
And I'm not going to start about mining. I'm just going to stare you until you sheepishly look to the side, scratch your neck and go "yeah, you're probably right. Heh."
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->And for those who are furiously typing a rebuttal: If it begins with anything along the lines of "once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space..." I'm not going to take you seriously.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1700626:date=Feb 16 2009, 10:05 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 16 2009, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space..." [/size]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1700626:date=Feb 16 2009, 10:05 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 16 2009, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700626"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->words<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes PvE in Eve does suck. Luckily it's a PvP game. as far as missions go, level 3 and 4 are much more entertaining especially if you get creative with the ship you fly (running level 3s with a speed tanked AF, having to keep your transversal up or risk getting turned to dust in 3 hits.) I mean, you could farm level 4s with a dual rep BS while half asleep but that's boring.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space..."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've always wondered: If this is the case, why not just cut out the boring crap and start players at the fun part?
<!--quoteo(post=1700674:date=Feb 17 2009, 01:47 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Feb 17 2009, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've always wondered: If this is the case, why not just cut out the boring crap and start players at the fun part?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> "once you get creativity/imagination" Is a more fitting way of putiing it.
<!--quoteo(post=1700677:date=Feb 17 2009, 02:38 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 17 2009, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That warrants elaboration, I'd say.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> People seem to complain about how boring parts of EvE are (mining, farming npc's, long jump journeys) but that's because you(the player) make them boring. For example: Farming NPCs. -You could grind low-level frigate and cruiser rats in high-sec using a battlecruiser for hours a day. No risk at all to you. OR -You could test the ins and outs of flying a cruiser who's only weapons are smartbombs of various sizes in low security systems. bonus points for fighting rats above your ship-class One of these options will be infinitely more entertaining then the other, yet they accomplish the same goal. EvE is a wide open sandbox, some people seem unable to deal with this.
So, did I miss something or does this still require you to grind for a cruiser? Thus "once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space..." still applies right?
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
Aren't you a goonie briktal?
Anyway, lolfighter you described all the boring parts of EVE yes but it sounds like you didn't once encounter any of the fun bits.
Allow me to describe one of the newly introduced (and awesome) features called "Exploration"
Basically with exploration there are hidden locations with mining, combat, artefact and gas clouds in a variety of different (randomly) generated locations everywhere from 1.0 highsec down to the deepest 0.0 sector. If you spend all day scanning down exploration sites in highsec you might find the occasional veldspar belt, which would be nice because the asteroids in empire blow massive chunks and having a pristine site to mine is a carebear's wet dream.
But! If you've got the balls to go take a dive with your exploration ship into lowsec or 0.0, the potential rewards you can find range from about 25M to 100m per site in lowsec and upwards of hundreds of million credits worth of rare artefacts used for t2 invention or asteroid belts full of the shiniest Bistot or Arkanor, or perhaps combat sites that have dozens of npc pirates with 2m+ bounties (plus loot) and perhaps a few unique officer types with the best equipment in the game which, if you're lucky, could be worth hundreds of millions just for one rare item.
The real fun starts though when you start to realize that lowsec and 0.0 are not the easiest things to get to. Well, if you're in a little frigate or something it's a piece of cake usually but in order to get a ship that can take some of those sites after you've found them requires a little more brains, a little more balls, or the help of your friends.
It only needs a frigate or cruiser (or t2 exploration-type frigate) to scan down these sites, hell the t2 frigate can even cloak and only costs maybe 10m! Those ships last forever and can sit cloaked while they scan down the best sites, very little risk for those guys... but if you manage to find an asteroid belt full of crokite in a backwater lowsec system, that's a LOT of money worth of the valuable mineral Zydrine just SITTING THERE! If you have a corp with mining barges, or know a corp with mining barges, you could take advantage of it and make a hell of a lot more money then you could mining the regular asteroid belts in lowsec, PLUS the exploration sites are hard to scan down, you have to find it with scan probes first before you can warp to it, so any pirates would have to take the time and you can see their scan probes on the system scanner.
You could always SELL the location of a valuable exploration site to someone before the site expires and disappears.
If you're more of a solo guy though which would be too bad since EVE is a group game, you could always hunt down those artefacts I mentioned, those can usually be retrieved by just one careful pilot rather then groups. I did it with a battlecruiser in lowsec myself for a few weeks and made a few hundred million for only a few hours of work... just make sure you have insurance on the BC.
That's just exploration as well, I didn't even mention the Political aspect of Corp <-> Corp interrelations in empire, lowsec and 0.0. Honestly the best fun in the game comes from player conflict, which may very well include competition on the market rather then with blasters! (My friend who started the same time as me on EVE has made about Eleven Billion Isk trading the market. That was the last time I checked, I think he's probably up to 15 Billion by now, plus assets.)
<!--quoteo(post=1700711:date=Feb 17 2009, 06:41 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SkulkBait @ Feb 17 2009, 06:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, did I miss something or does this still require you to grind for a cruiser? Thus "once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space..." still applies right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's just as applicable to smaller ships. Obviously your options aren't as vast if you can only fly a few ships but even if all you have are the noob ship (The one you get for free) I can think of tons of interesting things to do (torment 0.0 alliances, challenge noobs outside of the starting stations, try and kill other players by making a perfect setup). <!--quoteo(post=1700719:date=Feb 17 2009, 08:18 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 17 2009, 08:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, that battlecruiser you talked about, for how long had you been playing the game when you got it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can get a battlecruiser within maybe 1.5 weeks depending on what skills you pick as you start out. Being able to afford the ship would be the bigger hurdle, but still easily done if you set your goals. If a battlecruiser is what you wanted you could easily pull it off in 2-3 weeks of casual (but smart) play.
I believe I've made my case (not that I even wanted to, but NeonSpyder threw down the gauntlet, so I had to lay down the smaq). There's no fun to be had off the bat, and any argument to the contrary has indeed gone along the lines of "once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space" as predicted. The defense rests.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Welcome to EVE. If you aren't busy finding some way to injure or at least mildly inconvenience another player, you have a lot of catching up to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That said a lot of people just don't find it fun.
It it's just a matter of personal taste. And Lf doesn't like it just like I don't like coffee. A kid, he's 27, I know who will grind for hours in a final fantasy game to breed magic Choctaws or something finds EVE to be like pulling teeth. He prefers instead to run back and forth over the same spot of bird tacks in horrific 3d for hours at a time for some confusing Japanese themed item that I have been assured is in fact worth it.
edit(forgot to make my point)
lf is welcome to reject eve as boring. hell some times it is. the thing is that eve is for the kind of people who given three sticks and a rubber band some how manage to break a large amount of stuff and have a good time doing it. but some people just go three sticks and rubber band... I'm leaving.
<!--quoteo(post=1700763:date=Feb 18 2009, 10:02 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 18 2009, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700763"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I believe I've made my case (not that I even wanted to, but NeonSpyder threw down the gauntlet, so I had to lay down the smaq). There's no fun to be had off the bat, and any argument to the contrary has indeed gone along the lines of "once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space" as predicted. The defense rests.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Speaking in absolutes about subjective matters is cool, m i rite? EvE is not for everyone. If the best thing you can think up to do in the huge EvEverse is grind npc rats so you can afford a bigger ship to grind more rats then EvE isn't for you. But if you enjoy building sandcastles (and kicking other people's down) then perhaps you should try it.
Yeah EVE isn't for everyone but I found stuff I liked to do in EVE so I do that. And the lag (one of my biggest complaints with the game) is a lot better now.
Also <a href="http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1002245" target="_blank">http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.as...hreadID=1002245</a> is one of the best CAOD threads ever.
Eve is indeed not for everyone, I have always conceded that. It was NeonSpyder's claim to the contrary that prompted me to cement this.
But I submit to you that it is far easier for someone with years of experience to think up something fun than it is for a newbie. As a new player, I came into the game going "where the fun at, ######?" and the game pointed me at NPC pirates, mining and courier missions.
But no, it's not for everyone, and people like DOOManiac and me can find other games to play.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
If I said that EVE was for everyone then I was very naughty.
EVE is to gamers as whips are to sadomasochists, a niche for the type of gamer that enjoys a harsh universe with dangerous rules and difficult terrain to navigate, where even your player comrades are keeping one eye on their own wealth while the other eye hunts for a soft spot to plant the knife in your back to steal *your* riches, or at least some of them.
The delight for most people who play EVE is that they have just as much option to use that knife as any other. Of course there are the come-and-go players that run missions in empire or mine veldspar without a clear idea of the real universe that lurks just beneath the top layer, and those players tend to arrive and drift away without consequence, however those with daggers in hand and cloaks about their shoulders do a fine job of skulking one another in empire, lowsec and 0.0 alike.
You are right in one important point though lolfighter, EVE does not show it's secrets easily and it takes either a patient fan of internet spaceships to come across those mysteries on their own, or a lucky someone who is told those secrets by the old timers with the twinkle in their eye and the gleam along their blade.
Wow, you nailed the game like dead on there. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You are right in one important point though lolfighter, EVE does not show it's secrets easily and it takes either a patient fan of internet spaceships to come across those mysteries on their own, or a lucky someone who is told those secrets by the old timers with the twinkle in their eye and the gleam along their blade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you pay for the privilege. Awesome.
Seems to me, if your goal is to attract people to the game, and thus make more money, then you should, I don't know, make it fun? Requiring me to hunt for my own fun isn't going to inspire me to pay a monthly fee.
NeonSpyder"Das est NTLDR?"Join Date: 2003-07-03Member: 17913Members
Yeah, and it's worth the price, to ahh, what 300,000 subscribers or so? Sure it's not WoW with it's eleventy billion subs, but there simply aren't eleventy billion people out there who like the cutthroat nature of EVE and prefer their games to coddle them and serve fun in bite-size portions.
I (and 300,000 others) are quite happy with the sandbox-make-your-own-fun nature of EVE and we wouldn't want it to change to force fun on us when we can make it ourselves, all we usually ask for is new toys to play with every expansion to make better sandcastles and design better stabbing-knives.
While no one argues that WoW is a bad business model, but to many people it's not what they want in an MMO. And for the record, EVE has experienced constant playerbase growth since it's original release in h, 2002 I think.
Constant growth -> more money!
iirc, the CCP devs have repeatedly stated that their primary goal is to make a great game and their secondary objective is to make money and get more subs, presumably so they have more money to make a better game. Of course, that's just what they *say*, I have no doubt that they ultimately want money, I'm just happy that the way they've been trying to get it happens to be catering to the niche player who like the stabby-stabby PVP with internet spaceships.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, and it's worth the price, to ahh, what 300,000 subscribers or so?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats great for them. And I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just saying that I, as a potential customer, am not enticed.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but to many people it's not what they want in an MMO<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My problem with WoW is the same as my problem with EVE: Too much like a job and not enough like a game.
Comments
main: Ginjarou
alt: Karmen Jell
I hang around the bottom end of the Syndicate region.
I think I may still be in low sec space with my main and alt.
I really don't want to get jumped at a gate, though it's only about 2 gates to safety.
Seriously hopped I ended subscription in a safe zone lol.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />
Ended up uninstalling Sunday night. Whoever said it was like a completely different game now was wrong. Still boring... :(
Capiche?
On the surface it may look similar Mr.Maniac but the amount of new content and mechanis... it's the same game sure but it plays quite differently. When I say it's still the same game, I mean that there are still internet spaceships and universe-wide PVP from markets to asteroid belts.
I still believe anyone who doesn't find EVE fun is either not a geek or is doing it wrong.
There are numbers, spaceships and explosions not necessarily in that order! What's not to love!
Math! Big Booms! Whee!
There are numbers, spaceships and explosions not necessarily in that order! What's not to love!
Math! Big Booms! Whee!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I play games to get <i>away</i> from having to plan my career down to the smallest detail. I don't want to have to keep a detailed profit / loss spreadsheet when I play a game.
Then there was "questing" or missions or whatever it was called. The two kinds I stumbled upon were either kill quests (see above for why they suck) or courier quests. A courier quest consisted of setting your destination, hitting "autopilot," then walking away to do your laundry, returning twenty minutes later to a finished quest. Remember how we sometimes joke about those really stupid quests in other MMOs where we have to deliver a letter to a guy who is TEN METRES from the quest giver? Yeah, this is the alternative. I'll take the stupid quests I can complete in twenty seconds over the stupid quests that take twenty minutes, please.
And I'm not going to start about mining. I'm just going to stare you until you sheepishly look to the side, scratch your neck and go "yeah, you're probably right. Heh."
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->And for those who are furiously typing a rebuttal: If it begins with anything along the lines of "once you fly a cruiser/once you get to 0.0 space..." I'm not going to take you seriously.<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
It becomes incredibly fun! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Yes PvE in Eve does suck. Luckily it's a PvP game.
as far as missions go, level 3 and 4 are much more entertaining especially if you get creative with the ship you fly (running level 3s with a speed tanked AF, having to keep your transversal up or risk getting turned to dust in 3 hits.) I mean, you could farm level 4s with a dual rep BS while half asleep but that's boring.
Yeah. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I've always wondered: If this is the case, why not just cut out the boring crap and start players at the fun part?
"once you get creativity/imagination"
Is a more fitting way of putiing it.
People seem to complain about how boring parts of EvE are (mining, farming npc's, long jump journeys) but that's because you(the player) make them boring.
For example: Farming NPCs.
-You could grind low-level frigate and cruiser rats in high-sec using a battlecruiser for hours a day. No risk at all to you.
OR
-You could test the ins and outs of flying a cruiser who's only weapons are smartbombs of various sizes in low security systems. bonus points for fighting rats above your ship-class
One of these options will be infinitely more entertaining then the other, yet they accomplish the same goal.
EvE is a wide open sandbox, some people seem unable to deal with this.
I read that link and the other link that dives into it a bit more.
I wonder how quick people where to respond to taking BoB's territory?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
p quick
Anyway, lolfighter you described all the boring parts of EVE yes but it sounds like you didn't once encounter any of the fun bits.
Allow me to describe one of the newly introduced (and awesome) features called "Exploration"
Basically with exploration there are hidden locations with mining, combat, artefact and gas clouds in a variety of different (randomly) generated locations everywhere from 1.0 highsec down to the deepest 0.0 sector. If you spend all day scanning down exploration sites in highsec you might find the occasional veldspar belt, which would be nice because the asteroids in empire blow massive chunks and having a pristine site to mine is a carebear's wet dream.
But! If you've got the balls to go take a dive with your exploration ship into lowsec or 0.0, the potential rewards you can find range from about 25M to 100m per site in lowsec and upwards of hundreds of million credits worth of rare artefacts used for t2 invention or asteroid belts full of the shiniest Bistot or Arkanor, or perhaps combat sites that have dozens of npc pirates with 2m+ bounties (plus loot) and perhaps a few unique officer types with the best equipment in the game which, if you're lucky, could be worth hundreds of millions just for one rare item.
The real fun starts though when you start to realize that lowsec and 0.0 are not the easiest things to get to. Well, if you're in a little frigate or something it's a piece of cake usually but in order to get a ship that can take some of those sites after you've found them requires a little more brains, a little more balls, or the help of your friends.
It only needs a frigate or cruiser (or t2 exploration-type frigate) to scan down these sites, hell the t2 frigate can even cloak and only costs maybe 10m! Those ships last forever and can sit cloaked while they scan down the best sites, very little risk for those guys... but if you manage to find an asteroid belt full of crokite in a backwater lowsec system, that's a LOT of money worth of the valuable mineral Zydrine just SITTING THERE! If you have a corp with mining barges, or know a corp with mining barges, you could take advantage of it and make a hell of a lot more money then you could mining the regular asteroid belts in lowsec, PLUS the exploration sites are hard to scan down, you have to find it with scan probes first before you can warp to it, so any pirates would have to take the time and you can see their scan probes on the system scanner.
You could always SELL the location of a valuable exploration site to someone before the site expires and disappears.
If you're more of a solo guy though which would be too bad since EVE is a group game, you could always hunt down those artefacts I mentioned, those can usually be retrieved by just one careful pilot rather then groups. I did it with a battlecruiser in lowsec myself for a few weeks and made a few hundred million for only a few hours of work... just make sure you have insurance on the BC.
That's just exploration as well, I didn't even mention the Political aspect of Corp <-> Corp interrelations in empire, lowsec and 0.0. Honestly the best fun in the game comes from player conflict, which may very well include competition on the market rather then with blasters! (My friend who started the same time as me on EVE has made about Eleven Billion Isk trading the market. That was the last time I checked, I think he's probably up to 15 Billion by now, plus assets.)
It's just as applicable to smaller ships. Obviously your options aren't as vast if you can only fly a few ships but even if all you have are the noob ship (The one you get for free) I can think of tons of interesting things to do (torment 0.0 alliances, challenge noobs outside of the starting stations, try and kill other players by making a perfect setup).
<!--quoteo(post=1700719:date=Feb 17 2009, 08:18 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Feb 17 2009, 08:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1700719"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So, that battlecruiser you talked about, for how long had you been playing the game when you got it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can get a battlecruiser within maybe 1.5 weeks depending on what skills you pick as you start out. Being able to afford the ship would be the bigger hurdle, but still easily done if you set your goals. If a battlecruiser is what you wanted you could easily pull it off in 2-3 weeks of casual (but smart) play.
That said a lot of people just don't find it fun.
It it's just a matter of personal taste. And Lf doesn't like it just like I don't like coffee. A kid, he's 27, I know who will grind for hours in a final fantasy game to breed magic Choctaws or something finds EVE to be like pulling teeth. He prefers instead to run back and forth over the same spot of bird tacks in horrific 3d for hours at a time for some confusing Japanese themed item that I have been assured is in fact worth it.
edit(forgot to make my point)
lf is welcome to reject eve as boring. hell some times it is. the thing is that eve is for the kind of people who given three sticks and a rubber band some how manage to break a large amount of stuff and have a good time doing it. but some people just go three sticks and rubber band... I'm leaving.
Speaking in absolutes about subjective matters is cool, m i rite?
EvE is not for everyone. If the best thing you can think up to do in the huge EvEverse is grind npc rats so you can afford a bigger ship to grind more rats then EvE isn't for you. But if you enjoy building sandcastles (and kicking other people's down) then perhaps you should try it.
Also <a href="http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1002245" target="_blank">http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.as...hreadID=1002245</a> is one of the best CAOD threads ever.
But I submit to you that it is far easier for someone with years of experience to think up something fun than it is for a newbie. As a new player, I came into the game going "where the fun at, ######?" and the game pointed me at NPC pirates, mining and courier missions.
But no, it's not for everyone, and people like DOOManiac and me can find other games to play.
EVE is to gamers as whips are to sadomasochists, a niche for the type of gamer that enjoys a harsh universe with dangerous rules and difficult terrain to navigate, where even your player comrades are keeping one eye on their own wealth while the other eye hunts for a soft spot to plant the knife in your back to steal *your* riches, or at least some of them.
The delight for most people who play EVE is that they have just as much option to use that knife as any other. Of course there are the come-and-go players that run missions in empire or mine veldspar without a clear idea of the real universe that lurks just beneath the top layer, and those players tend to arrive and drift away without consequence, however those with daggers in hand and cloaks about their shoulders do a fine job of skulking one another in empire, lowsec and 0.0 alike.
You are right in one important point though lolfighter, EVE does not show it's secrets easily and it takes either a patient fan of internet spaceships to come across those mysteries on their own, or a lucky someone who is told those secrets by the old timers with the twinkle in their eye and the gleam along their blade.
Wow, you nailed the game like dead on there. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
And you pay for the privilege. Awesome.
Seems to me, if your goal is to attract people to the game, and thus make more money, then you should, I don't know, make it fun? Requiring me to hunt for my own fun isn't going to inspire me to pay a monthly fee.
I (and 300,000 others) are quite happy with the sandbox-make-your-own-fun nature of EVE and we wouldn't want it to change to force fun on us when we can make it ourselves, all we usually ask for is new toys to play with every expansion to make better sandcastles and design better stabbing-knives.
While no one argues that WoW is a bad business model, but to many people it's not what they want in an MMO. And for the record, EVE has experienced constant playerbase growth since it's original release in h, 2002 I think.
Constant growth -> more money!
iirc, the CCP devs have repeatedly stated that their primary goal is to make a great game and their secondary objective is to make money and get more subs, presumably so they have more money to make a better game. Of course, that's just what they *say*, I have no doubt that they ultimately want money, I'm just happy that the way they've been trying to get it happens to be catering to the niche player who like the stabby-stabby PVP with internet spaceships.
Meh, now I'm rambling.
Thats great for them. And I'm not saying otherwise. I'm just saying that I, as a potential customer, am not enticed.
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My problem with WoW is the same as my problem with EVE: Too much like a job and not enough like a game.