Or you could use CMake, or you could use auto tools, or you could use... There are so many to choose from it's not even funny.
Linux / Mac support is good to hear, for those wondering apart from packaging the actual coding required for porting between linux and mac is much less than that for windows to either. And if you use cross platform libraries, it's really small anyway.
Interesting to note also: <a href="http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-goo-linux-version-is-ready/" target="_blank">http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-goo-l...rsion-is-ready/</a>
As far as the portability of DirectX goes and trying to make a toolset or game work across games, how do you feel that new features of DirectX will be as easy to manage without an OpenGL counterpart? For example, I know it is not nearly time to start developing with it, but I was recently reading how DirectX 11 will have better multithreading support and I do not believe OpenGL 3.x will have this. How do you balance API specific features when the other may be missing it?
<!--quoteo(post=1703511:date=Mar 26 2009, 09:30 AM:name=exoity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoity @ Mar 26 2009, 09:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as the portability of DirectX goes and trying to make a toolset or game work across games, how do you feel that new features of DirectX will be as easy to manage without an OpenGL counterpart? For example, I know it is not nearly time to start developing with it, but I was recently reading how DirectX 11 will have better multithreading support and I do not believe OpenGL 3.x will have this. How do you balance API specific features when the other may be missing it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest there are not that many API discrepancies between OpenGL and DirectX. OpenGL can get new hardware functionality sooner that DirectX can with its plugin system, it's just how you get at these things that differers.
Generally developers don't use the latest and greatest of either graphics API exclusively anyway, since most people don't have hardware which supports it.
Oh! That's really good news! I would be really really happy to see a linux version! I will immediately buy the linux version when there is one! But please, don't release it the UT3 way ....
Why are you wasting your time working on portability to OS X? Sure, its a good idea but AFTER the windows version is released. your time would be better focusing getting the game to the largest markets, linux users and windows users. Delaying the release of the game to try to satisfy a small percentage of potential customers is completely rediculous. Your time and money can be used on better more important things to get the game developed and released. After the game is out and making money you can worry about buying your shiny new stuff.
I love NS, but the longer you wait the more gamers that forget there was even an NS2 planned(except for those active in the forums)
<!--quoteo(post=1703559:date=Mar 26 2009, 02:49 PM:name=Masterchief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Masterchief @ Mar 26 2009, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...] a small percentage of potential customers [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i believe it's not as small as u might think..
<!--quoteo(post=1703511:date=Mar 25 2009, 03:30 PM:name=exoity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(exoity @ Mar 25 2009, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703511"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as the portability of DirectX goes and trying to make a toolset or game work across games, how do you feel that new features of DirectX will be as easy to manage without an OpenGL counterpart? For example, I know it is not nearly time to start developing with it, but I was recently reading how DirectX 11 will have better multithreading support and I do not believe OpenGL 3.x will have this. How do you balance API specific features when the other may be missing it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The short answer to your question is that we aren't going to be using any DirectX 10 or 11 features in Natural Selection 2. Because of the big rift between DirectX 9 and DirectX 10, I'm not interested in using DirectX 10 until I can make that the minimum spec for our engine, and I don't really see that happening for a few years.
<!--quoteo(post=1703559:date=Mar 26 2009, 02:49 PM:name=Masterchief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Masterchief @ Mar 26 2009, 02:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im going to make this blunt.
Why are you wasting your time working on portability to OS X? Sure, its a good idea but AFTER the windows version is released. your time would be better focusing getting the game to the largest markets, linux users and windows users. Delaying the release of the game to try to satisfy a small percentage of potential customers is completely rediculous. Your time and money can be used on better more important things to get the game developed and released. After the game is out and making money you can worry about buying your shiny new stuff.
I love NS, but the longer you wait the more gamers that forget there was even an NS2 planned(except for those active in the forums)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> By the sound of it, it'll only take a day or three, which is a fart in space in comparison to the rest of the dev time. And "adding portability" is a pretty bad way of doing it, you have to design for it from the start.
Interesting article, it's refreshing to see game developers put a lot of thought into portability. I'd love to see the tools available for Linux and OSX. Also I was genuinely surprised at little Direct3D code is required for the engine.
I've had my Macbook pro for about 2 years now and I must say I'm not that impressed. I'm impressed with the OSX operating system but the machine itself is the fail. I bootcamped windowns on it and it works excellent but the problems I've had are mostly hardware. I've been plagued with pixels burning out, frame warping (Actually just about everyone in my program had the same problem with the frame forming weird kinks) and now the video cable inside of my unit is loose so I have to take it all apart and re attach it or the display wont work.
Gege.
Theres a website listing tons of Macbook Defects. I hope the one you got is free of these errors.
Oh dude c'mon. Stop working on such "nice-to-have" features and keep going on the real important things ... the best information which we get are the twitter news, and not how your experience was to compile your code for linux and mac os X. If you want to play on Max OS X or Linux its your own fault, but dont let the strong PC Community dieng because you developers are to nerdy, please!
Keep going guys, im waiting for this game, so come on! You even dont got a beta, you are really working slow dudes because you are spending to much time in this crap.
Got a MBP since October 09 and I've not encountered one problem so far. I really dig that I can still opt between Win and Mac. Although I'd prefer if I was able to just run games in Mac, so any sort of port is more than welcome on my side.
So stoked to hear that they're doing this. I hereby offer myself for faithful beta-testing of your Mac products! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1703586:date=Mar 26 2009, 06:03 PM:name=snooops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(snooops @ Mar 26 2009, 06:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703586"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh dude c'mon. Stop working on such "nice-to-have" features and keep going on the real important things ... the best information which we get are the twitter news, and not how your experience was to compile your code for linux and mac os X. If you want to play on Max OS X or Linux its your own fault, but dont let the strong PC Community dieng because you developers are to nerdy, please!
Keep going guys, im waiting for this game, so come on! You even dont got a beta, you are really working slow dudes because you are spending to much time in this crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> First of all, this is the "Developer Blog". This means that is about the development process. Second, "this crap" happens to be features which will make the game better overall and gain UW more money by expanding their possible user base. They already said that they are working on the Windows version first, so they won't let the PC Community "dieng". Finally, the real reasons for them working slowly are that there are only four of them, and that they are actually trying to make a quality product. Whenever a company sets unreasonable release dates for themselves all it accomplishes is creating a hacked together, sub-par product. Of course we all want it as soon as possible, but I would personally rather have a quality game, and in order to continue supporting NS, UW needs money to stay alive.
what i'd like to know is how far they actually are just knowing what they've currently done doesnt tell a normal guy how far it actually is to the finishline
<!--quoteo(post=1703649:date=Mar 27 2009, 04:52 PM:name=c0ke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(c0ke @ Mar 27 2009, 04:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703649"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what i'd like to know is how far they actually are just knowing what they've currently done doesnt tell a normal guy how far it actually is to the finishline<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I was quite surprised how high the Linux / Mac World of Goo versions were sales wise. ( I presume it's only an estimate, since buying one version means you own them all )
Their slides show 10% of the market share for PC was down to linux, and 35% was down to Mac - 45% of their total market share. Not so insignificant after all.
<!--quoteo(post=1703651:date=Mar 27 2009, 08:42 PM:name=KungFuDiscoMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Mar 27 2009, 08:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Patience is a virtue.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> yes and time = money and money = girls so you better hurry up
When you say the entire game is scripted in Lua, does that include the dynamic infestation? If so, I cannot wait to see the source for it. I've probably spent hours replaying the short video clip demonstrating it.
Im in awe of your nerdiness. i LOVE it, because its going to produce an amazing game. keep up the good work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Max, you're awesome! Well, I'm really looking forward to the release of Natural Selection 2. If it comes in retail here in germany, I'm so gonna buy it.
Is there any major reason you are using MSC at all? GCC is cross platform and more compliant with standards. Also it is likely that if you were to develop with GCC you could compile it in MSC with no trouble, the converse of which is not the case, as you found out.
<!--quoteo(post=1703965:date=Apr 2 2009, 01:37 AM:name=xx3nvyxx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xx3nvyxx @ Apr 2 2009, 01:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1703965"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is there any major reason you are using MSC at all? GCC is cross platform and more compliant with standards. Also it is likely that if you were to develop with GCC you could compile it in MSC with no trouble, the converse of which is not the case, as you found out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wouldn't want to give up the Visual Studio debugger, and using Visual Studio with GCC seems like more work than it would be worth. I think there was only one major thing I had to change in the code when going to GCC which had to do with the syntax for pointer to member functions, and now that I know how to write them in a cross-platform way, that won't be a problem.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1704103:date=Apr 3 2009, 09:13 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Apr 3 2009, 09:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1704103"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where is this mysterious news item?
I can't seem to find it at unknownworlds.com/ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Does seem to be borked. Here's the location from my history <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/03/one_small_step_for_a_man_one_giant_leap_for_mac_kind" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009...ap_for_mac_kind</a>.
Comments
Linux / Mac support is good to hear, for those wondering apart from packaging the actual coding required for porting between linux and mac is much less than that for windows to either. And if you use cross platform libraries, it's really small anyway.
Interesting to note also: <a href="http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-goo-linux-version-is-ready/" target="_blank">http://2dboy.com/2009/02/12/world-of-goo-l...rsion-is-ready/</a>
To be honest there are not that many API discrepancies between OpenGL and DirectX. OpenGL can get new hardware functionality sooner that DirectX can with its plugin system, it's just how you get at these things that differers.
Generally developers don't use the latest and greatest of either graphics API exclusively anyway, since most people don't have hardware which supports it.
I would be really really happy to see a linux version! I will immediately buy the linux version when there is one!
But please, don't release it the UT3 way ....
Why are you wasting your time working on portability to OS X?
Sure, its a good idea but AFTER the windows version is released. your time would be better focusing getting the game to the largest markets, linux users and windows users. Delaying the release of the game to try to satisfy a small percentage of potential customers is completely rediculous. Your time and money can be used on better more important things to get the game developed and released. After the game is out and making money you can worry about buying your shiny new stuff.
I love NS, but the longer you wait the more gamers that forget there was even an NS2 planned(except for those active in the forums)
i believe it's not as small as u might think..
The short answer to your question is that we aren't going to be using any DirectX 10 or 11 features in Natural Selection 2. Because of the big rift between DirectX 9 and DirectX 10, I'm not interested in using DirectX 10 until I can make that the minimum spec for our engine, and I don't really see that happening for a few years.
Why are you wasting your time working on portability to OS X?
Sure, its a good idea but AFTER the windows version is released. your time would be better focusing getting the game to the largest markets, linux users and windows users. Delaying the release of the game to try to satisfy a small percentage of potential customers is completely rediculous. Your time and money can be used on better more important things to get the game developed and released. After the game is out and making money you can worry about buying your shiny new stuff.
I love NS, but the longer you wait the more gamers that forget there was even an NS2 planned(except for those active in the forums)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By the sound of it, it'll only take a day or three, which is a fart in space in comparison to the rest of the dev time. And "adding portability" is a pretty bad way of doing it, you have to design for it from the start.
Gege.
Theres a website listing tons of Macbook Defects. I hope the one you got is free of these errors.
Stop working on such "nice-to-have" features and keep going on the real important things ... the best information which we get are the twitter news, and not how your experience was to compile your code for linux and mac os X. If you want to play on Max OS X or Linux its your own fault, but dont let the strong PC Community dieng because you developers are to nerdy, please!
Keep going guys, im waiting for this game, so come on! You even dont got a beta, you are really working slow dudes because you are spending to much time in this crap.
So stoked to hear that they're doing this. I hereby offer myself for faithful beta-testing of your Mac products! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Stop working on such "nice-to-have" features and keep going on the real important things ... the best information which we get are the twitter news, and not how your experience was to compile your code for linux and mac os X. If you want to play on Max OS X or Linux its your own fault, but dont let the strong PC Community dieng because you developers are to nerdy, please!
Keep going guys, im waiting for this game, so come on! You even dont got a beta, you are really working slow dudes because you are spending to much time in this crap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all, this is the "Developer Blog". This means that is about the development process. Second, "this crap" happens to be features which will make the game better overall and gain UW more money by expanding their possible user base. They already said that they are working on the Windows version first, so they won't let the PC Community "dieng". Finally, the real reasons for them working slowly are that there are only four of them, and that they are actually trying to make a quality product. Whenever a company sets unreasonable release dates for themselves all it accomplishes is creating a hacked together, sub-par product. Of course we all want it as soon as possible, but I would personally rather have a quality game, and in order to continue supporting NS, UW needs money to stay alive.
just knowing what they've currently done doesnt tell a normal guy how far it actually is to the finishline
just knowing what they've currently done doesnt tell a normal guy how far it actually is to the finishline<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Patience is a virtue.
<a href="http://2dboy.com/2009/03/26/gdc_updates/" target="_blank">http://2dboy.com/2009/03/26/gdc_updates/</a>
Their slides show 10% of the market share for PC was down to linux, and 35% was down to Mac - 45% of their total market share. Not so insignificant after all.
yes and time = money
and money = girls
so you better hurry up
Im in awe of your nerdiness. i LOVE it, because its going to produce an amazing game. keep up the good work. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Well, I'm really looking forward to the release of Natural Selection 2.
If it comes in retail here in germany, I'm so gonna buy it.
I wouldn't want to give up the Visual Studio debugger, and using Visual Studio with GCC seems like more work than it would be worth. I think there was only one major thing I had to change in the code when going to GCC which had to do with the syntax for pointer to member functions, and now that I know how to write them in a cross-platform way, that won't be a problem.
I can't seem to find it at unknownworlds.com/ns2
I can't seem to find it at unknownworlds.com/ns2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does seem to be borked. Here's the location from my history <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/03/one_small_step_for_a_man_one_giant_leap_for_mac_kind" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009...ap_for_mac_kind</a>.