European servers (e.g. the VH2.nl server)
Ikaros
Join Date: 2009-03-02 Member: 66606Members
Join Date: 2009-03-02 Member: 66606Members
I'm not trying to complain, or otherwise, I just felt like informing the people how badly European servers are. Now, first off
- I'm European myself. I don't have an ounce of American in me so I'm allowed to say it. -
European servers are AWFUL. Please, tell me WHAT European servers are good, if there are any.
I've currently found only a handful of servers I've enjoyed playing on, and it's the BAD clan servers (what is that, 3 servers?). But sometimes, those servers aren't active, which is Euro time. But when I'm on US time, I love the people there, and I love playing with the Americans because they know how to play NS, and NS maps. And they use their mics a lot which is totally awesome too. I've been playing this game since 2004, but had many, many breaks in the past. Last break lasted two whole years or something, I haven't kept count, and I came back a couple of weeks ago. I am not a good commander, so I don't waste other people's gaming time on it, and I cannot play fade or onos so I rather spend my resources on RT's, MC's, SC's, DC's. I am probably not even a good player at all, I'm an average player. But I "finally" found an active Euro server today, it used to be a lot more back in the days, but when I came in to the server I was amazed at how differently people play from EU to US. When I compare Americans with Europeans, I only have one thing to say; Europeans can't play this game!
I came into the ONLY available server today, filled with people, called VH2.nl. They had my favorite map on, ns_veil. I joined the marines, and 5 minutes into the game, the commander still wasn't able to build a second IP. We told him to build one, over and over again, but he didn't listen. He just laughed in our face. When we realized that we only had 1 RT as well, we told him to get out and let somebody else play. Instead, he wasted all our resources on spamming, shotguns, health and ammo packs everywhere like he had done to begin with. About 7 minutes into the game the alien fades started coming in, we had 1 armor upgrade and a grenade upgrade... I told him to get out one more time, or recycle, so that the game could end, because he ruined the match doing absolutely nothing - because lets face it, who wants to fight for an hour at the marine start? The commander finally got out, started calling me names, and telling me to get in the chair. People started hopping in and out of the commander chair to buy shotguns, hmg's, etc, so that they could waste more of our time. So I went in to the command chair, not to save the marines, because how can you save something as terrible as that? I recycled so that we could finally end the (not so much NS) match.
About 1/10 of the server said thank God I recycled. 9/10 started whining, and wanted me banned. 1 minute later I got banned.
I mean, about 15 servers and hardly 50 to 100 active players... and I got banned for doing the right thing. Well, it would have been the right thing on an American server, according to the Europeans I was being a ######.
Keep up the good work, kick and ban people, that's how you keep old players staying and the community together. That's the way to go when what was once a large community is hardly anything at all.
- I'm European myself. I don't have an ounce of American in me so I'm allowed to say it. -
European servers are AWFUL. Please, tell me WHAT European servers are good, if there are any.
I've currently found only a handful of servers I've enjoyed playing on, and it's the BAD clan servers (what is that, 3 servers?). But sometimes, those servers aren't active, which is Euro time. But when I'm on US time, I love the people there, and I love playing with the Americans because they know how to play NS, and NS maps. And they use their mics a lot which is totally awesome too. I've been playing this game since 2004, but had many, many breaks in the past. Last break lasted two whole years or something, I haven't kept count, and I came back a couple of weeks ago. I am not a good commander, so I don't waste other people's gaming time on it, and I cannot play fade or onos so I rather spend my resources on RT's, MC's, SC's, DC's. I am probably not even a good player at all, I'm an average player. But I "finally" found an active Euro server today, it used to be a lot more back in the days, but when I came in to the server I was amazed at how differently people play from EU to US. When I compare Americans with Europeans, I only have one thing to say; Europeans can't play this game!
I came into the ONLY available server today, filled with people, called VH2.nl. They had my favorite map on, ns_veil. I joined the marines, and 5 minutes into the game, the commander still wasn't able to build a second IP. We told him to build one, over and over again, but he didn't listen. He just laughed in our face. When we realized that we only had 1 RT as well, we told him to get out and let somebody else play. Instead, he wasted all our resources on spamming, shotguns, health and ammo packs everywhere like he had done to begin with. About 7 minutes into the game the alien fades started coming in, we had 1 armor upgrade and a grenade upgrade... I told him to get out one more time, or recycle, so that the game could end, because he ruined the match doing absolutely nothing - because lets face it, who wants to fight for an hour at the marine start? The commander finally got out, started calling me names, and telling me to get in the chair. People started hopping in and out of the commander chair to buy shotguns, hmg's, etc, so that they could waste more of our time. So I went in to the command chair, not to save the marines, because how can you save something as terrible as that? I recycled so that we could finally end the (not so much NS) match.
About 1/10 of the server said thank God I recycled. 9/10 started whining, and wanted me banned. 1 minute later I got banned.
I mean, about 15 servers and hardly 50 to 100 active players... and I got banned for doing the right thing. Well, it would have been the right thing on an American server, according to the Europeans I was being a ######.
Keep up the good work, kick and ban people, that's how you keep old players staying and the community together. That's the way to go when what was once a large community is hardly anything at all.
Comments
For the sake of me not trolling your own troll post- Euros are shockingly bad at communicating in public games. You won't hear the average Euro use voice comms: be it NS, C-S or on console games.
As for comparing Euro NSers to American NSers it's generally accepted that the Euros have always played at a higher level- in the competitive scene, at least.
Selling a base will almost always get you banned on Euro servers even though sometimes it's the only way to end a terrible game quickly. I've been banned myself for doing it. We've all played those 12v12 games where marines are sitting in base with 1 RT but it takes about 20 minutes to end.
I don't mind stacked teams, as my own team or as an opponent. As long if it's Natural Selection we're playing and not some random HL Deathmatch, and European servers do feel like HL Deathmatch. I've tried three times now, and *puke* (haven't tried NSTalent yet). No, it was not just one bad commander, the whole idea of nobody communicating with one another, not doing anything as a team, always spending ALL resources on getting "double" while all the other RT's are either available, or buildt and never gets harmed... even though some aliens were hard to kill because they bunnyjumped in 90 degree /\/\/\/\ angles, it didn't feel like we were playing Natural-Selection, at all.
I'll try NSTalent, but in the meantime I'll play on BAD whenever it's (even few) players there. Teamwork and mics FTW!
Just the other day though, I've had a GUD admin in my team, which wanted to be welded and then just ran off without welding back despite me requesting it multiple times...I guess they have to work on their whole teamwork or temp ban policy..
On another note regarding vh2, the average skill level there has really gone downhill.
Most of the competitive and good players prefer NSTalent over VH2 these days, which means you run into a lot of noobs on VH2, unless NSTalent is down.
And FF ON on such a big server is just plain silly.
But I don't understand, why you insist so much on mic communication. It's just horrible on big servers and everyone good with a common sense, watching the game messages and minimap, doesn't need a mic or to listen in order to know what to do.
Next best thing is VHL (I wouldn't say that's typical of it, but it has got worse in recent years), and after that, Able. I'm only putting Able 3rd because it has massive tea sizes which don't lend well to the game's core mechanics (e.g. Marine RFK easily leading to early Elec and Shotgun rushes - it's easier to have one person spending money well and a lot of players getting the benefits than a team playing well, as is usually required on the Alien team).
gud server is alright though
So you're ignoring the NSI where terror absolutely destroyed knife? You can claim ping all you like but frankly the US scene went downhill after that, before then though in the era of exigent and terror playing at their peak .... I think it was a very different story. Euro's and US players have been pretty on-par from what I saw until the US comp scene fell apart.
<!--quoteo(post=1702728:date=Mar 15 2009, 01:01 PM:name=sherpa, Draft Tournament Topic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa, Draft Tournament Topic @ Mar 15 2009, 01:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1702728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Transatlantic/contintenal NS doesn't work- the high pinging team will get dominated as shown by knife in the NS invitational cup some years back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I will claim ping all I like given the pace of the game. Has a Euro Vs. NA exhibition match ever finished anything other than 2-2 when 1 map is played on each contient?
At their peak NA had some expert marine players but they needed the Europeans to show them the way when it came to aliens. v3.0 lerking and v2.0 fading was spearheaded by Euros.
in Ablens, Siege 15vs15 was really fun and well played, but marins win all matchs in normal games :=)
Zdzislaw Beksinski <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />
Fixed <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
At their peak NA had some expert marine players but they needed the Europeans to show them the way when it came to aliens. v3.0 lerking and v2.0 fading was spearheaded by Euros.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Na knife got destroyed because we played like ###### for about 2 weeks before that tourney and especially on the day which was compounded by getting ###### hives (generator/that ###### one on orbital).
Of the EU vs NA exhibition matches EU won 3-1 in 1.04, 3-1 in 3.0b and 2-2 in the last one and all of those were played 1 map each continent, although NA has excuses for each of them... but in the last one an american guy was using whitewalls.
KTDM used to tie exigent in very long drawn out games on american servers which happen because you cant kill ###### due to ping difference.
conclusion? eu = na, ktdm > all
Ignoring its rules, YO-clan used to be a great public server server until it died. After that European public server scene has been going downhill. NSTalent and VH2 are ok servers, but nothing special. The great days of NS with good public servers are gone.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've currently found only a handful of servers I've enjoyed playing on, and it's the BAD clan servers (what is that, 3 servers?). But sometimes, those servers aren't active, which is Euro time. But when I'm on US time, I love the people there, and I love playing with the Americans because they know how to play NS, and NS maps. And they use their mics a lot which is totally awesome too. I've been playing this game since 2004, but had many, many breaks in the past. Last break lasted two whole years or something, I haven't kept count, and I came back a couple of weeks ago. I am not a good commander, so I don't waste other people's gaming time on it, and I cannot play fade or onos so I rather spend my resources on RT's, MC's, SC's, DC's. I am probably not even a good player at all, I'm an average player. But I "finally" found an active Euro server today, it used to be a lot more back in the days, but when I came in to the server I was amazed at how differently people play from EU to US. When I compare Americans with Europeans, I only have one thing to say; Europeans can't play this game!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disregarding the flamebait nature of the last sentences, I can tell you that you might be right about when it comes to public servers. It used to be a lot better before and now its worse. However this is totally a different story on competitive side. Europeans won americans 2 times and drew 1 times in "official" EU vs USA games. But its not even important, the fact is that prem. players of EU competitive scene are a lot better than average public players. I assume this is the same in North America too. The public players are not the only ones constituting the European ns scene. Check <a href="http://ensl.zanith.nl/" target="_blank">ENSL</a> for some competitive action. We have action usually around Sunday 20-22CET. HLTVs for spectating games are announced on our Quakenet IRC channel #ENSL (shown in Steam spectate-browser too). If you watch a few games, I'm sure you understand there are still capable players and teams, likewise in Europe, Asia and America. This season's demos are available <a href="http://ensl.zanith.nl/upload/demos/s12/" target="_blank">here</a>.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I mean, about 15 servers and hardly 50 to 100 active players... and I got banned for doing the right thing. Well, it would have been the right thing on an American server, according to the Europeans I was being a ######.
Keep up the good work, kick and ban people, that's how you keep old players staying and the community together. That's the way to go when what was once a large community is hardly anything at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You should avoid such generalizations, because what you say is like saying "all americans are just biggots who like invading countries for oil".
Basically most competitive players (european or american) agree with you about selling IPs. Public scene have its own principles, though it can be a bit more different overseas. However I'm not paying for the servers so I don't complain. I don't know how many VH2 members hover around here but I think their forums, IRC chnnel etc. would be a better place to start.
Well spoken.
Every exhibition match of Europe vs America has always ended in either a draw or a win for europe.
Statistically this shows the skill level in europe is higher then america at the top level.
Now that is just stats. Ofcourse with NS you have such random play due to "on the day performance" and activity.
I would generally say however, europeans are better at aliens while americans, who aren't really better aimers, are generally better marines (and in my opinion more aggressive).
However it's a stupid argument anyway due to the fact that the skill levels in both the scenes went up and down alot, and also because ping will always be a factor.
Statistically this shows the skill level in europe is higher then america at the top level.
Now that is just stats. Ofcourse with NS you have such random play due to "on the day performance" and activity.
I would generally say however, europeans are better at aliens while americans, who aren't really better aimers, are generally better marines (and in my opinion more aggressive).
However it's a stupid argument anyway due to the fact that the skill levels in both the scenes went up and down alot, and also because ping will always be a factor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the top EU players were a little more interested in playing those high ping games. At least there was a lot of discussion of the NA player picks and I don't think we ever saw them in top lineup.
I've seen only a few North American demos, but both Exigent and Terror seemed to be devastating at their best. They definitely would have been a match for any Euro team ever to exist, but obiviously it's next to impossible to give any valid comparsion between the teams from different continents and eras of NS.
---
As for the topic: People judge the scenes a little too quick. I've had terrible games on both EU and US servers, hit one of those and you can judge any server completely wrong.
The few games I've played on US servers easily went on to turret farming and 40+ minute marine victories due to the imbalance. On the other hand the games were probably slightly smarter played that way, but on the other hand it emphasized the balance issues of a 30 player server even more. I prefer shorter games that don't involve massive lockdowns, even if it isn't the optimal way for winning.
Mic usage is a little bit of a two bladed sword on the present huge publics. Informative communication is always nice, but a few guys unable to do so wreck the whole ability to focus on essential stuff like game sounds and the actual informative communication.
/benevolence
I will back that up simply because I like picking on ziggy.
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 *0_0
18 slots. Good admins (generally - can be debatable sometimes)
- Great playerbase/community
Definately worth trying
At their peak NA had some expert marine players but they needed the Europeans to show them the way when it came to aliens. v3.0 lerking and v2.0 fading was spearheaded by Euros.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All EU vs. NA matches have been played with one map on each continent's server. EU won the two properly organized matches 3-1 in 2003 and 2005. The last match, in 2007, which was a spur of the moment thing with little to no planning or preparation, ended in a 2-2, with a NA player later revealed to be using a hack.
Agreed on EU developing the lerk-centered gameplay earlier than NA, but both EU and NA had very impressive Fades during 2.0. I will never agree with the stereotype that NA has an edge in Marine play. I've never seen any evidence to support this. Contrary to this, EU has only ever lost one marine round to NA and that was in the previously mentioned match where a NA player used a hack.
The only logical conclusion to any debate over which continent's competitive scenes have been the strongest, is that there is not enough evidence to support either claim. Both EU and NA have had amazing players and teams and neither have been tested against each other under entirely equal circumstances.