Calling All Starcraft Players

FrostFire626 · May 2009

<div class="IPBDescription">I need some good practice partners.</div>If you still play that one game called "Starcraft" that no one has ever heard about, you might be interested in being one of my practice partners. I only started "real" 1v1 Starcraft about a year ago, having played UMS maps for many years before that. I want to be more competitive and eventually start playing in ICCUP, so I need some skilled players to go up against.

Game Name: axFrost
Gateway: U.S. West
Race: Protoss
APM: avg. 130

I'd prefer practice partners to be:
1) Terran for now, but Protoss and Zerg are definitely welcome too.
2) 110+ APM
3) Can play for at least a few hours a week (play starcraft in general, not just against me).

With all the parallels between the Kharaa in NS and the Zerg in SC, I figure there are at least a few hardcore starcraft players in this forum. With Starcraft 2 just over the horizon, we'd better brush up on our SC1 skills before the SC2 bomb hits.

Edit: Use BWchart to measure total Actions Per Minute after the game ends.

ZiGGY · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>2) 110+ APM</div>
bwahahaha

Tesseract · May 2009

Yeah ahahahahahahahahaha dude 110 what the hell

what the hell does 110 APM mean? Help a non-Starcraftian here.

Faskalia · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tesseract @ May 25 2009, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707663"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Yeah ahahahahahahahahaha dude 110 what the hell

what the hell does 110 APM mean? Help a non-Starcraftian here.</div>

Actions Per Minute.

Selecting a group of zerglings, then clicking on the minimap to change the POV and then macking an attack move would be 4 actions, IIRC.

FrostFire626 · May 2009

I started playing serious 1v1 games with about 80-90 APM since I was still trying to figure out what the hell was going on. After watching dozens and dozens of pro korean players online (gomtv.net, youtube.com/violetak) and searching for build orders, I started to actually get a feel for what real Starcaft is. After a few months, my APM began to start rising and rising as the next strategic decision was becoming more clear and more natural. Now I'm hitting 130+ APM (I never spam keys, ever) and maxing at 160 in an intense micro game. So basically, an APM 110+ suggests that you know how a real Starcraft game flows, but you still need practice doing the thousands of necessary actions at high speed. Pro Koreans tend to have APMs of 300 or higher, so there is always room to improve.

Edit: BTW, I use BWchart to measure my APM after the game. I don't think APM counters that display in game are helpful as they just encourage you to spam useless keys.

lolfighter · May 2009

I've probably got twenty or thirty APM. How do you even measure those? Are there third-party programs for that?

sherpa · May 2009

I think the demo has the info in it? I know websites that host them show the APM.

I still find it hard to beleive that most commands are useful with an APM of say 120.

So over a match you make a useful action every half a second for, what- 15 minutes?

It also kinda puts me off trying SC2 competitively as I'll never go above 30 <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />

FrostFire626 · May 2009

My max 160 APM is actually VERY modest. Here is a short sample of what I would do in 1-2 minutes:

Situation:
Protoss(me) vs. Terran
3 Nexus vs. 2 Command Center

Necessary macro tasks (x2 due to misclicks):

Build Probe at Nexus (x3)
Train Zealot (x4)
Train Dragoon (x5)
Build Pylon (x2)
Build Forge
Build Citadel of Adun
Build Observer
Transfer probes to new expansion
Put new probes on minerals/gas
Build Probe at Nexus (x3)
Train Zealot (x4)
Train Dragoon (x5)
Build 1-2 cannons at vulnerable expansions
Build assimilator

Necessary micro tasks:
Move combat units (x999999)
Attack move (x20)
Scout with observers (moving while avoiding missile turrets)
Hotkey unit groupings (x10)
Rally new gateways (x3 per expansion)

And god help me if I have to attack a mined/turreted/sieged position on the map with high templar in shuttles, 24 zealots, 30 dragoons, stasis with arbiters, detect mines with observers, and spread my units in an arc around the enemy, all the while keeping up with pylons/probes/training units/upgrading tech while also preventing vulture harassments and siege tank drops.

With my low APM (relatively), several of these tasks are bound to be either delayed or forgotten entirely, resulting in a loss of economy, scouting information, or units. You guys should try this competitive Starcraft thing... It's pretty challenging to say the least.

lolfighter · May 2009

I'm going to get into Starcraft once those with a decade's head start are done with it. Until then there's not much point trying.

TychoCelchuuu · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 25 2009, 03:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707703"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm going to get into Starcraft once those with a decade's head start are done with it. Until then there's not much point trying.</div>
That makes about as much sense as waiting to get into soccer or baseball. The right time to start a competetive sport is when YOU are in your prime, regardless of where everyone else is on the continuum.

Monkfish · May 2009

This feels just like some kind of crazy meta game that normal people who play games for fun just don't get.

FrostFire626 · May 2009

With the right guidance and an <b>open mind</b>, anyone can be competitive in Starcraft within 100 multiplayer games (1 month if you play three 20 minute games a day). Starcraft is not a game like counter-strike, where twitch-based aim is an arduous skill to develop. Know the details of every unit and building, learn the basic macro build orders and counters, and you already have a solid base to start with. The only thing left to do is perform more tasks faster and faster until you're:

1) building units/tech/buildings
2) managing your economy
3) attacking the enemy's main force
4) dropping special forces into vulnerable enemy mineral lines
5) monitoring the map for enemy counters
6) scouting the map

ALL at the same time.

I don't know how this turned into a Starcraft guide, but here's some resources I've often used to put me on the right path:

<a href="http://www.gomtv.net" target="_blank">http://www.gomtv.net</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/violetak" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/violetak</a>
<a href="http://www.sc2gg.com" target="_blank">http://www.sc2gg.com</a>
<a href="http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/" target="_blank">http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft/</a>
<a href="http://bwchart.teamliquid.net/us/bwchart.php" target="_blank">http://bwchart.teamliquid.net/us/bwchart.php</a>

Monkfish · May 2009

I played the demo exactly once and hated it. I'm not living in the past anymore!

lolfighter · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TychoCelchuuu @ May 25 2009, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>That makes about as much sense as waiting to get into soccer or baseball. The right time to start a competetive sport is when YOU are in your prime, regardless of where everyone else is on the continuum.</div>
I just need an excuse to not play rts games, and the fact that everyone else is a decade ahead of me serves nicely.

Tesseract · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 25 2009, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I've probably got twenty or thirty APM. How do you even measure those? Are there third-party programs for that?</div>

There's probably a chart that you can look it up using "how many friends you have in real life."

FrostFire626 · May 2009

I'm really surprised so few of you know about competitive Starcraft, considering it is the most successful "E-Sport" world wide (with CS being 2nd, in my opinion). Entire cable channels in Korea are dedicated to pro starcraft matches.

Konohas Perverted Hermit · May 2009

Star Craft puts me to sleep. Pay $50 for each pack will make my wallet lighter. Thus for Star Craft = Lametastic.

Crispy · May 2009

I've set my sights lower on Dawn of War 2 (lower unit count and more manageable, plus more armies and better lore). I don't know if those programs you mention work with DoW2, but at a guess I'd say my APM is probably about 90 or so give 30 or take 10. I would like to have a higher APM, but playing an RTS left-handed with a hotkey setup designed for right-handers is a ###### pain in the ass.

lolfighter · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FrostFire626 @ May 26 2009, 05:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm really surprised so few of you know about competitive Starcraft, considering it is the most successful "E-Sport" world wide (with CS being 2nd, in my opinion). Entire cable channels in Korea are dedicated to pro starcraft matches.</div>
I'm not surprised. NS was first and foremost a first-person shooter. Unless you played commander, there was very little rts about it, and I know that a lot of people (including me) rarely or never played commander. And most of the people I know from my NS days seem to play more fps than rts. We're perhaps more rts-minded than the average fps player, but we're far from the core demographic.

It's not that we don't *know* about competitive Starcraft. I think we've all heard about it and how obsessed the koreans are with it. I think we just don't care all that much, so we don't bother researching the intricacies of it.

I'm still curious: How do you measure APM?

Thansal · May 2009

quick google says:
<a href="http://bwchart.teamliquid.net/index.php" target="_blank">http://bwchart.teamliquid.net/index.php</a>

Apparently it parses out log files to well wth you have done in a game.

Zaggy · May 2009

Last time I tried playing like a pro, I ended up with ~75 APM and lost horribly.

Just watching the pro's at their job is pretty cool but dizzying, don't these guys suffer horribly from carpal tunnel?

<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Msa2cOU95Fk"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Msa2cOU95Fk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msa2cOU95Fk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Msa2cOU95Fk</a></div>

I did enjoy playing it vs some friends though, at a LAN

ZiGGY · May 2009

m8 of mine won the uk WCG finals 3 times in a row, he's moved to Korea to be with his gf now though; he said to me that the game has changed drastically in the past year or two

sherpa · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ May 26 2009, 12:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707759"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I've set my sights lower on Dawn of War 2 (lower unit count and more manageable, plus more armies and better lore). I don't know if those programs you mention work with DoW2, but at a guess I'd say my APM is probably about 90 or so give 30 or take 10. I would like to have a higher APM, but playing an RTS left-handed with a hotkey setup designed for right-handers is a ###### pain in the ass.</div>

Ditto.

There are a couple of key grids that immeasurably improve the UI, but it's still based on the left side of the keyboard.

I enjoy Eldar most as they require the most micro, I'd like to think that bodes well for me for SC2 but the games are chalk and cheese.

I just hope SC2 is popular enough so that we have proper skill divisons, i.e. there's going to be lots of people in the same boat as me.

FrostFire626 · May 2009

SC is the first and only RTS I've ever played seriously, and it really isn't as impossible to be competitive as it may seem. The most important thing is having an open mind and being willing to radically change your play style in order to improve. Another ESSENTIAL skill is the ability to accept losses, losses, and more losses. The best lessons are learned from the worst mistakes.

I urge you guys to give serious starcraft a try, but with a different mindset than when you played Fastest Map Ever or Sunken Defense when you were younger. NS commanding, in my opinion, is far more difficult than starcraft due to the communication element (and if you don't communicate, you're not commanding). So if you enjoy commanding in NS, starcraft and starcraft 2 is a great new arena to explore.

Underwhelmed · May 2009

Don't bother with USWest, just jump straight on ICCUP. I'd play, but I've sort of lost interest in Starcraft for the moment. I'd say that 100 APM is probably the minimum you need to play somewhat competitively. If you want actual practice partners, try looking on Teamliquid.

FrostFire626 · May 2009

I actually tried posting on sc2gg.com and, strangely, got absolutely squat. I don't want to join some random clan offered to me on bnet, so yah i'll check out teamliquid.

spellman23 · May 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Underwhelmed @ May 26 2009, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1707847"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Don't bother with USWest, just jump straight on ICCUP. I'd play, but I've sort of lost interest in Starcraft for the moment. I'd say that 100 APM is probably the minimum you need to play somewhat competitively. If you want actual practice partners, try looking on Teamliquid.</div>

Yay ICCUP.

While I'm a horrid SC player (I don't even clock my apm, probably around 3? =P) I have a few friends who are on ICCUP a decent amount. Plus, the College StarCraft League is played on ICCUP.

Calling All Starcraft Players

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