Teamwork and the Commanders
Zolop
Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15251Members
Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15251Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Work effectively as a army, not disorganized.</div>An example of letting the commander organize and put a strategy into effect is letting him focus on strategy. Some things in NS distracted the commander, such as dropping health/ammo. Most RTS to this day don't burden the commander with supply thinking. I don't know any current RTS that makes the commander deal with supplies. In most online FPS it is the job of the members of the squad. BF 2142 has a class for it, savage 2 has a healer, Eternal Silence has a gunship that repairs friendly ships. This goes to the main point of this thread...
A Commander is suppose to command the over all strategy not help each individual soldier. An example of current military simulator..
<a href="http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/" target="_blank">http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/</a>
and the game I plan on buying
<a href="http://www.arma2.com/" target="_blank">http://www.arma2.com/</a> (from the VBS 2 or 3 engine)
If you truly want a commander let him have a map to plan, let other platoon leaders/battalion leaders be able to do their jobs. Use the current military organization to make a similar command structure that enforces great teamwork, competitive experience.
Just a sidenote, but imagine how cool it would be to have the VBS 2 engine (and a similar size landmass), but have all alien/technology and marine/technology units from NS2...would be the most awesome.
An example of Commanding in ArmA...
How commanding works when I play ArmA with my Clan (I won't go in to many specifics but basics).
Commander/General commands the squads and only give orders to the SL. ITs the SLs job to reach the locations, even if they are not far apart. Waypoints are given out to nearby locations.
Battalion-We have no BL's and do not have the need to have one.
Platoon-Commander/General sends a whisper using Teamspeak to talk to Squad leaders directly, no Platoon leader needed. Or he makes marks on the Maps.
SL-Responsible for calling in air strikes, keep ammo supplies current and calling for supplies/backup.
This goes back to my main point with squads, its the SL's job to keep supplied and to ask for supplies/backup. Making untility tools/objects/weapons that support the squad are needed, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the Commander to keep handing out supplies all over the map when he has other duties. For example make it so you carry less ammo and get a revive tool. Or make kits that can be configured like classes in other FPS. Make it so a engineering can put a deployable that has limited ammo to give out (not infinite ammo).
What is a good commander if he can't command because he has too many other duties? Hence he should be commanding, since the word derives from.... command. He should not be stuck with babysitting single players by dropping supplies to everyone that calls for help/weapons/ammo/toy guns/peatnut and jelly sandwiches.., except SL's for supplies or orders. Even more so there should be a Platoon commander taking care of the SL's...but that is just my advice.
A Commander is suppose to command the over all strategy not help each individual soldier. An example of current military simulator..
<a href="http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/" target="_blank">http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/</a>
and the game I plan on buying
<a href="http://www.arma2.com/" target="_blank">http://www.arma2.com/</a> (from the VBS 2 or 3 engine)
If you truly want a commander let him have a map to plan, let other platoon leaders/battalion leaders be able to do their jobs. Use the current military organization to make a similar command structure that enforces great teamwork, competitive experience.
Just a sidenote, but imagine how cool it would be to have the VBS 2 engine (and a similar size landmass), but have all alien/technology and marine/technology units from NS2...would be the most awesome.
An example of Commanding in ArmA...
How commanding works when I play ArmA with my Clan (I won't go in to many specifics but basics).
Commander/General commands the squads and only give orders to the SL. ITs the SLs job to reach the locations, even if they are not far apart. Waypoints are given out to nearby locations.
Battalion-We have no BL's and do not have the need to have one.
Platoon-Commander/General sends a whisper using Teamspeak to talk to Squad leaders directly, no Platoon leader needed. Or he makes marks on the Maps.
SL-Responsible for calling in air strikes, keep ammo supplies current and calling for supplies/backup.
This goes back to my main point with squads, its the SL's job to keep supplied and to ask for supplies/backup. Making untility tools/objects/weapons that support the squad are needed, it shouldn't be the responsibility of the Commander to keep handing out supplies all over the map when he has other duties. For example make it so you carry less ammo and get a revive tool. Or make kits that can be configured like classes in other FPS. Make it so a engineering can put a deployable that has limited ammo to give out (not infinite ammo).
What is a good commander if he can't command because he has too many other duties? Hence he should be commanding, since the word derives from.... command. He should not be stuck with babysitting single players by dropping supplies to everyone that calls for help/weapons/ammo/toy guns/peatnut and jelly sandwiches.., except SL's for supplies or orders. Even more so there should be a Platoon commander taking care of the SL's...but that is just my advice.
Comments
The commander will have much less micromanagement of marine weapons. The commander also will have greater number of spells. The waypoint system will be improved as well. Finally, there will be a squad system.
Here are some quotes by the developers from old (some VERY OLD) podcasts.
Podcast 7: weapon system
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Max: Well, one thing that we kind’ve mentioned on the blog is allowing player to essentially purchase weapons, almost like a counterstrike kind’ve thing.
Charlie: Right.
Max: Um, you know, they wouldn’t be able to purchase anything, they would still be tied to the commander. In terms of the commander would research new technologies, and resources also factor into there, but the guy on the ground would have a lot more flexibility in choosing, ok I really like working with the shotgun so I’m gonna get that. Or, um, you know that kind of thing.
Charlie: And the key here being that the commander would make the strategic decision that they wanna, like, devote their resources towards like, say shotguns, or, I dunno, laser or weapons or, you know, sniper, not that those things are gonna go in, but say flamethrowers, and then the marines on the ground actually purchase the flamethrowers. So that way the commander does the strategy and the person on the ground still choose their play style. Which I hope will work pretty well
Max: Yeah, so decoupling that a little bit, while still keeping relevant, making it so their enjoyment is not tied quite as tightly to the...
Charlie: Right, right.
Max: Um, and actually they talk about the,
Charlie: You won’t be begging the comm for a shotgun anymore.
Max: Right.
Charlie: The classic thing.
Max: So, giving people on both sides, actually, more they can do is the other way of making sure that it’s fun for everyone. So now the players can get the weapons that they want more often, and to trade off, like, that historically was a role that commander would do, doling out weapons. So we’re taking something away from the commander there, and to compensate that we want to add more stuff.
Charlie: We’ll give him more spells.
Max: Yeah, well, what we call spells. Which, you know, doesn’t really make any sense in the fiction of Natural Selection and the Sci-Fi universe, I think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Podcast 16: more on weapon buying. Also waypoints and spells.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Max: We’ve talked about the commander having some more active abilities, kind of like in Natural Selection 1, there is the scanner sweep, which is something he actively does or dropping med packs. And we want to expand that role. We call them, the game design term is “spells,†that you might have.
...
Charlie: And let’s see, “how are we building team play into gameplay of NS2…†so I guess the question is “…so it happens automatically and not just among highly organized play like tournament play?†And we do have a bunch of ideas there.
Max: I think you would agree with this. Our goal is to take essentially the kind of play you would see in an organized tournament play and bring that to random internet public game
...
Charlie: How are we doing it? That’s a good question. Well it’s a whole bunch of UI work – interface work that is – and a lot of the game mechanics will be built around this. So one example is, I believe – again, I don’t know – all the squads will be automatic, so the commander doesn’t have to select a group of players and make a squad – it will just happen. So, any group of people that is around each other will automatically form into red squad or blue squad and they just become a team. And then if you die as a marine, you respawn back with your squad, so you stay with your squad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Podcast 17: waypoints
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Max: We’ve talked in previous podcasts, I think it was 5th podcast, the concept of bringing a lot of guidance into the game. I think we talked about a sort of active objective or dynamic objective kind of system, which would help guide you and give you an idea of what you should be doing, if you don’t have any idea.
...
Charlie: Right. Well, i think we talked about the waypoints showing you the exact route instead of just a blinking destination dot.
Max: That would potentially help you with navigation and learning the maps.
Charlie: But i guess what we’re trying to say is: we don’t know about a tutorial but we know that we want the game to teach you a lot more as you’re playing and be a lot more helpful and polite.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't know they were planning on giving the Commander more strategic abilities, that weren't tied into providing for the individual marines.
That actually makes alot of sense, and I don't know why I didn't think it'd be taken that far.
I wonder if this will involve offensive capabilities as well as defensive, and whether Commanders can actively influence the tide of battle, or whether it's passively through special buildings, etc.
I think we've got a fair bit in store for us when the alpha and beta releases roll in, because it seems there's so many specific details we don't have the foggiest idea about P