Lighting in NS2
monopolowa
Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28839Members
Join Date: 2004-05-23 Member: 28839Members
<div class="IPBDescription">how bright will maps be?</div>I'm curious as to how brightly lit the official NS2 maps will be...in the early NS1 days, lighting was dark and very atmospheric...one of the things i really liked about the game. Eventually the brightness was raised to level the playing field because some players would set their gamma high to see in shadowy areas...
Will NS2 attempt to go back to the eerie, shadow-heavy, darker style of lighting?
Will NS2 attempt to go back to the eerie, shadow-heavy, darker style of lighting?
Comments
Together with the information that rooms will operate based upon state (alien, neutral, marine) it is highly likely that rooms can go from "dark hellhole" to fully lit.
That's pretty much what I was hoping for...I'm just looking for confirmation that yes, this is the case.
In contrast (pun intended), you can be sure that there will be plenty of maps that no one really likes to play with dark areas.
In contrast (pun intended), you can be sure that there will be plenty of maps that no one really likes to play with dark areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, it can be designed to work even with those dark areas.
The aliens have their own "scent" vision which enables them to see their targets very visible and bright, while the marines have their flashlight.
Now what comes with their new engine is that they can make the flashlight good enough to actually work, one example of this is of course L4D where there a large amount of near pitch-black corridors and rooms yet it works for the game to have this. It can of course be argued that the corridors are mostly meant as passageways to areas where the infected can actually do something but still.
So it all comes down to how good the flashlight is and if UWE wants to go on that track, or simply go the "easier" way of making the maps more evenly lit and accessible without any gamma-cheating or of the sort.
It will most likely be without those pitch-black areas in the end, but the topic is actually open for discussion if you think about it.
I hope UWE have flashlights work in a way that other players can see too, the amount of times in L4D I've tried to tell someone where a Special Infected is by pointing in the general direction with light on (in my screen they are lit up as a result), the other player goes "where? *spins* I can't see it!"
Together with the information that rooms will operate based upon state (alien, neutral, marine) it is highly likely that rooms can go from "dark hellhole" to fully lit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
damn, got got about that vid. thanks. looks really nice...
In contrast (pun intended), you can be sure that there will be plenty of maps that no one really likes to play with dark areas.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
aye; for competitive play its better to use very few dark areas in the map (like near the hera marinestart elevator).
light maps have always been successful, like veil or tanith.
Of course, the only way to do this is to have an area (say in the ready room) where it tells you how to set your gamma. (ie, make the dark UWE logo on the black screen just show up)
Serioussly... flashlights?? don't you think by that far in the future that humans will have genetic modifications so they can see in the dark... how about contact lenses / eye implants...
In the original series, Lost in Space, the Jupiter 2 possesed no light bulbs "The ship had no light bulbs. Maureen said the lights were "transistorized," perhaps meaning they were electroluminescent or built from arrays of light emitting diodes" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space</a>
No ofcourse... a flashlight... Please tell me it'll be a dim-as-hell maglight that runs out of power in 5 seconds and requires some recharging via the kinetic bettery. Next your going to tell me to goto infrared and to look sharp... nevermind those dollar-store Full-spectrum goggles i thought i was going to need...
You do know that by all rights, if flashlights are even used in the future... that a little pocket-sized light would be powerful enough to set trees on fire at a distance of 50 ft...
<a href="http://imgur.com/o04W5.jpg" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/o04W5.jpg</a>
1. Map called urban2 with gl_modulate at 1. This was made before TNG existed.
2. urban2 with gl_modulate 3
3. A newer map called urbanic at gl_modulate 1. You can see that there are 'shadows' or shades on the buildings in broad daylight.
4. urbanic with gl_modulate 3
(gl_modulate in a way was good because it made dark maps brighter and especially more colourful, but bright maps stayed mostly just as bright as they were. If there were dark spots in bright maps, they strangely usually became filled with light the colour of the textures around them. Like the whole of urban2 is pretty bluish. )
To avoid this kind of a lighting problem, you could always force the players to use the default gamma, or make them able to increase it just a little.
Or then just allow gamma changing and making it possible for people to ruin atmosphere in most maps if they wish so. At least, most competetive players would probably do this. I probably would increase gamma somewhat too.
PS. I felt it was all right to nitpick on urbanic because it was made by me.
Serioussly... flashlights?? don't you think by that far in the future that humans will have genetic modifications so they can see in the dark... how about contact lenses / eye implants...
In the original series, Lost in Space, the Jupiter 2 possesed no light bulbs "The ship had no light bulbs. Maureen said the lights were "transistorized," perhaps meaning they were electroluminescent or built from arrays of light emitting diodes" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space</a>
No ofcourse... a flashlight... Please tell me it'll be a dim-as-hell maglight that runs out of power in 5 seconds and requires some recharging via the kinetic bettery. Next your going to tell me to goto infrared and to look sharp... nevermind those dollar-store Full-spectrum goggles i thought i was going to need...
You do know that by all rights, if flashlights are even used in the future... that a little pocket-sized light would be powerful enough to set trees on fire at a distance of 50 ft...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Riiiight...
It's only a game and using a flashlight OR something similiar just increases the immersion. I'm so sorry I didn't say "powerized energized 'Brite-Lite'-technology contact lenses".
The general idea of a flashlight in games is to create a cone of vision that creates interesting shadows and at certain places limits the players view, in what form it comes I just don't care.
Serioussly... flashlights?? don't you think by that far in the future that humans will have genetic modifications so they can see in the dark... how about contact lenses / eye implants...
In the original series, Lost in Space, the Jupiter 2 possesed no light bulbs "The ship had no light bulbs. Maureen said the lights were "transistorized," perhaps meaning they were electroluminescent or built from arrays of light emitting diodes" <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_in_Space</a>
No ofcourse... a flashlight... Please tell me it'll be a dim-as-hell maglight that runs out of power in 5 seconds and requires some recharging via the kinetic bettery. Next your going to tell me to goto infrared and to look sharp... nevermind those dollar-store Full-spectrum goggles i thought i was going to need...
You do know that by all rights, if flashlights are even used in the future... that a little pocket-sized light would be powerful enough to set trees on fire at a distance of 50 ft...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This reasoning is incompatible with the "no taser" argument.
If a pocket maglite could set a tree on fire (though that isn't the proper use of a flashlight...) guess what an electric weapon can do.
And how does a ship with no lightbulbs (that means no incandescent or gas sources) mean that they needed no lighting? It's just a different technology, and what they meant was, instead of having a light bulb or a neon, they have electroluminescent panels or LED's at those same spots... In any case, "transistorized" means that it requires electricity. Which means prone to failure on certain parts of the facility. Which means some sort of equipment that allows for portable lighting. And this game's atmosphere doesn't fit with cybernetic implants. This leaves us with... flashlights.
I denie that argument. the only thing sticking out from the armor is your neck (I think) and the face, nothing more.
who doesn't say that certain areas are augmented? they are already researching that and are quite far,
they even are able to replace muscles to use as the controler for artificial limbs and it won't take long before
actual nerve interfaces will appear. allowing those nifty implants you saw in the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nty9NVINL_4" target="_blank">puma commercial</a>...
"Dark" isn't a binary condition. Monitors vary in brightness, and the purpose of gamma adjustment is to allow people with different monitors to see the same game.
Who cares what UWE says? They won't be able to stop it.
Probably to prevent people from gaining a gamma/brightness advantage all the more balanced maps will be at least decently lit in all areas.
If you want to make a dark, atmospheric map, feel free to make one. I made one, it was fun, my friends enjoy it once in a while. Aliens tend to pwn though.
one LCD is set at 5% gamma
the other LCD is set at 40% gamma
and my CRT is set at 100% gamma
This puts them all at about the same level. By necessity ALL video hardware and software is designed around the assumption that users can change the levels on their displays to correct hardware, software, and human error. I enjoy dark areas in single player games and movies, but It is totally unacceptable to balance any kind of competitive multiplier game around low lighting.
As many people have said, the community will have the power to design their own dark maps. However, hopefully the dev team will not spend their resources developing such maps and CERTAINLY not design any gameplay mechanics around them.
I play the game how it was designed to be seen, personally, and believe that playing to win to the point of cranking gamma to the point that you have the world's best night vision defeats the purpose of playing the game, though I can see how this would be problematic to get around for the developers.
Although this was easily fixed D-I-Y, it was a really annoying and even dangerous "feature" in the first place.
Firstly, the same gamma ranges certainly don't fit all monitors, at all, and therefore the concept is flawed.
Secondly, improper gamma profiles could potentially damage older hardware, and third, numerous times the gamma was never reset on program exit (on "abnormal" program termination, I suppose, which seemed to be most cases due to Steam), and you had to manually adjust it back yourself.
I think it's reasonable to accept that all gamers have different setups, and give them enough control over in-game gamma to fix possible brightness issues (like with HL2's mat_monitorgamma cvar.)
Firebat vs mutalisk simulator
GO!
That way it just ruins the game when people see everything, when they aren't suppose to.
That way it just ruins the game when people see everything, when they aren't suppose to.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, there isn't, because even if you stop people from manipulating it with software, every monitor has a brightness control.
And, as pointed out above, you probably don't want to, because one person's bright and shiny on their new LCD monitor can be another person's dark and dingy on an old CRT.
Really, I think the only solution is to make sure that the maps have areas of both extreme brightness and extreme darkness so that being able to see in both requires you adjust your monitor to a common standard. Of course, this means you'll need some way for people to figure out what that common standard is. I like the "adjust your monitor until the X just disappears" type of thing, myself.
I would like to see lighting change every time you start a round. Like once some lights are lit but some other are turned off, maybe in the next room. Almost like in L4D where some areas are locked or opened eatch time you play.