Vents + Marines
zex
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
Join Date: 2009-10-07 Member: 68978Members
I read somewhere that frontiersmen will not be able to get in vents, that they are skulk-only routes.
I was watching Aliens the other day, and there's that intense scene near the end that takes place in some vents - it's claustrophobic and very appealing.
So, my suggestion is, let Marines go in vents! If you look at the most recent NS2 screens, the skulks are about the same size as a crouched human. So, allow a crouched frontiersman to enter any vent that he can access (i.e., not ones on the ceiling). Humans in vents would have slower movement (because they are crouched), and they would only be able to use their sidearm or a melee weapon, not any of the main rifles. Obviously they would have a significant disadvantage over any skulks they run into. But it would also open up additional possibilities for ambushes and attacking from areas the aliens aren't expecting.
I was watching Aliens the other day, and there's that intense scene near the end that takes place in some vents - it's claustrophobic and very appealing.
So, my suggestion is, let Marines go in vents! If you look at the most recent NS2 screens, the skulks are about the same size as a crouched human. So, allow a crouched frontiersman to enter any vent that he can access (i.e., not ones on the ceiling). Humans in vents would have slower movement (because they are crouched), and they would only be able to use their sidearm or a melee weapon, not any of the main rifles. Obviously they would have a significant disadvantage over any skulks they run into. But it would also open up additional possibilities for ambushes and attacking from areas the aliens aren't expecting.
Comments
I was watching Aliens the other day, and there's that intense scene near the end that takes place in some vents - it's claustrophobic and very appealing.
So, my suggestion is, let Marines go in vents! If you look at the most recent NS2 screens, the skulks are about the same size as a crouched human. So, allow a crouched frontiersman to enter any vent that he can access (i.e., not ones on the ceiling). Humans in vents would have slower movement (because they are crouched), and they would only be able to use their sidearm or a melee weapon, not any of the main rifles. Obviously they would have a significant disadvantage over any skulks they run into. But it would also open up additional possibilities for ambushes and attacking from areas the aliens aren't expecting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It makes logical sense, but it might be a lil unbalanced. Marines could just camp in the vents and shoot anything that runs at them. the skulk will never be able to survive...i say keep marines out
I actually found out that if you made vents the exact height of a crouched marine, they'd be forced to a crawl through vents... not sure why more map makers didn't take advantage of that.
That is the idea behind limiting the weapons frontiersmen in vents can use. In a 1v1 melee, the human has no chance. He might not even have a chance with a pistol up close if he's surprised (I'm imagining vents have lots of turns and bends, so it will be easy to get ambushed). Also, skulks would be able to climb vertical vents which humans won't be able to access (unless there's a ladder), so there is an additional element of surprise from vertical attacks, or using vertical vents to come up behind humans in vents.
It would have to be balanced so humans are at a massive disadvantage in vents (but still have a slight chance so it remains fun). That way you get a tense claustrophobic experience when traveling, in exchange for the opportunity to attack from an unexpected angle.
It would have to be balanced so humans are at a massive disadvantage in vents (but still have a slight chance so it remains fun). That way you get a tense claustrophobic experience when traveling, in exchange for the opportunity to attack from an unexpected angle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If marines can't really go anywhere and are really vulnerable, what's the point of going in the vents in the first place? Much easier to just lock them out.
this:
<!--quoteo(post=1735567:date=Nov 2 2009, 05:04 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 2 2009, 05:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735567"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->additional possibilities for ambushes and attacking from areas the aliens aren't expecting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1735660:date=Nov 2 2009, 10:07 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 2 2009, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you get a tense claustrophobic experience when traveling, in exchange for the opportunity to attack from an unexpected angle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plus, invisible walls in video games are stupid. If there's an area that the player could plausibly access, he shouldn't be barred from going there due to arbitrary gameplay restrictions.
RE: Invisible walls... plausibly, a marine could crawl in a vent. Then get stuck because he can't turn around, his armor is wedged in place, and his gear is just banging around making him unable to even draw a weapon...
And you're now the arbiter of what frontiersmen are "supposed" to be doing...why, exactly?
<!--quoteo(post=1735675:date=Nov 2 2009, 11:10 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 2 2009, 11:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->plausibly, a marine could crawl in a vent. Then get stuck<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. If the map designer was an idiot, there could plausibly be collision bugs. Plausibly, a skulk could get his claws caught on a pipe and not be able to move, but that doesn't have any relevance to the topic at hand.
The devs are choosing not to include it as an option for the marines because it suits their game-play agenda. The kharaa (in particular the skulks and mabe gorges) get a whole series of vents that they can exploit, which amplifies their role as ambushers and helps to bridge the gap between the melee and ranged combat. If you played NS1 for any appreciable amount of time you'd know that the only reason (most of the time) for marines to enter vents was to either clear out a pesky lerk or to prolong the game by hiding in there while the aliens killed the CC. In NS2 the marines have many more and better ways to clear vents (GL on the LMG and flame thrower and maybe more) so theirs no need to include such a silly mechanic as marines slowly crawling through vents.
Again if youve ever played NS1 and used the vents as a marine you know just how much of a death trap it was, really no need.
fix the speed problem and marines are fine in vents.
And this is the "ideas and suggestions" forum, for ideas and suggestion about things that could be added to the game.
My suggestion wouldn't at all change the dynamics you mentioned from NS1, it would just add to immersion by not artificially limiting the map area that frontiersmen can play in. And also allow players to recreate some of the most atmospheric parts of the Alien movies :3
Alien did, and the guy was completely owned in there without even putting up a fight.
Die Hard also featured crawling around in vents, but it's also Bruce Willis.
Temphage, I'm beginning to suspect you're trolling me. If you have in fact ever seen the movie "Aliens" directed by James Cameron, you'll recollect the scene near the end where the crew is crawling through a series of vents, Newt falls down a level into a water drainage area and is abducted, and the hispanic marine girl ends up going kamikaze with a tiny grenade after unloading a pistol clip into an alien's head at close quarters, after it drops down on her. I don't expect you to remember every scene from every Aliens movie, but please refrain from acting as if you know what you're talking about when you clearly have no idea.
<!--quoteo(post=1735686:date=Nov 2 2009, 11:47 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Nov 2 2009, 11:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess that means I'm pretty indifferent to whether or not it get implemented or not :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for posting here, buddy, you're really moving the conversation along.
The downside of this is that it all changes when marines get jetpacks, which I don't like because any chambers in the field will instantly be killed and need to be re-dropped and to me that's one of the most interesting parts of the alien side gameplay features instantly being neutralised.
I totally agree with this. No heavy armor or jetpacks, just vulnerable lightly armored humans with only their sidearm for offense.
If I had to do it, this is how i would implement allowing marines to enter vents in NS2. It makes it possible, but the restrictions and disadvantages encourage marines to find another means. Let me know what you guys think.
marines do fit in the vents,
however all vents become immediatley vertical, so that if a marine gets inside there is nowhere to go for him, as they can't climb walls :)
It was like a marine hazing ritual, convince someone to climb under there and jump in the doomvent.
Oh how I loathe you, doomvent.
Solve what?
I like the lying prone in vents idea. But judging from the size of the vents in screenshots, it would be unnecessary, there's plenty of space to crouch.
And there are cases where lone marines can do massive damage when sneaking in vents. Because aliens generally don't expect marines in vents, they sometimes won't look there, especially if that vent is not being used at the moment due to certain reasons(emergency in another area, vents are the roundabout way, etc). Thus, marines can easily sneak behind enemy lines and drop a PG or whatever damaging thing the comm chooses to drop.
A very good example of this is the map with The Great Viaduct hive. Get a marine in the red room and the aliens got themselves a world of trouble. And the thing is, aliens hardly ever touch the red room. Of course, the marines need JP to do this, or stack mines on walls.
It adds the potential for more varied routes through maps, promotes tense, claustrophobic combat scenarios, and removes an arbitrary restriction that could potentially break immersion/suspension of disbelief (invisible walls).
The question is more like "what does barring frontiersmen from vents add to the game?" Limiting what players can do always has to be looked at carefully, especially since the engine already has map design limitations due to commander view (no rooms-on-rooms).
Do you mean level-over-level? It could be done in NS1, until the tools are available I could not tell you about NS2.
<img src="http://www.magnaromagna.it/images/notizie/ladrointrappolato.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Trapped in vent.
<img src="http://s133702574.onlinehome.us/pictures/blog/chimneyburglary.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Trapped in chimney.
<img src="http://www.thedenverchannel.com/2009/0320/18975240_240X180.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Trapped in vent.
Notice that none of these people are wearing body armor, helmets, and an assortment of weaponry. And actually that last guy is completely butt-naked.
<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AirVentEscape" target="_blank">http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AirVentEscape</a>
My inability to crawl through vents is TOTALLY BREAKING MY PERCEPTION OF REALITY.
No marine would be mind-bendingly stupid enough to try to climb through an air vent unless he was under very dire circumstances. Simply because people don't FIT in air vents, it's extremely obvious if someone WAS in one, and you cannot do anything whatsoever to move turn around, or god forbid use a weapon. The most dangerous thing in Vietnam was to clean out Tunnel Rats and you were stripped down and given nothing but an M1911 and a flashlight - and those were TUNNELS FOR PEOPLE, not shafts for air.
Also since when are marines supposed to have 'more varied routes'? Isn't that the point of the welder, that they have their OWN routes?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The question is more like "what does barring frontiersmen from vents add to the game?" Limiting what players can do always has to be looked at carefully, especially since the engine already has map design limitations due to commander view (no rooms-on-rooms).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think providing aliens a way to quickly move around and flank marines is a pretty nice thing to have in the game, don't you?
I have no idea what you think you're proving, Temp.
<a href="http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Dog-Left-Stuck-In-Air-Vent/5LOSK64tpEGl0ajEB4vM4g.cspx" target="_blank">ZOMG SKULKS CANT GO IN VENTS THEY'LL GET STUCK</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1736865:date=Nov 9 2009, 07:19 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 9 2009, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No marine would be mind-bendingly stupid enough to try to climb through an air vent unless he was under very dire circumstances.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is why I'm proposing limitations on what frontiersmen can do in vents (lower movement speed, no primary weapon) - because it shouldn't be an attractive proposition to go in, but if there's anything that fits the description of "dire circumstances" it's a hostile alien invasion of your base. Sometimes you have to take the risk...
<!--quoteo(post=1736865:date=Nov 9 2009, 07:19 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 9 2009, 07:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think providing aliens a way to quickly move around and flank marines is a pretty nice thing to have in the game, don't you?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're right, that's why I'm not suggesting aliens shouldn't be able to go in vents. Just give them a little company ;)