So Charlie is doing Commander (Starcraft like) tweaking.
Jimyd
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Make sure not to forget this.</div>Make sure we can bind all commander buttons and abilities to our keypad and mouse.
My best setup is: qwerty/asdfgh/zxcvbn for RTS games. I really dislike it when RTS game developers map some special abilities to random places on the same unit like (p psionic storm/b barrage ability/u upgrade something/etc.) with the end result making the game not very user/newb friendly. Relic did this with the first series of Dawn of War games and Company of Heroes, and the end result was it didn't really keep any new players around, just the hardcore people from tabletop.
Anyways, another good idea mentioned in another post is to have class specific config.cfgs. Like in TF2 when you switch from Soldier to Scout, the game switches from soldier.cfg to scout.cfg when you spawn as that class.
In NS obviously, this would be the instant you start morphing to that class, so from lerker to fade. However if you do plan to include a cancel morphing button (with some consequences possibly) then you would make the config change when you complete you morph and are the new class.
So the list of configs you would need (as far as I know from NS1):
config.cfg
(This is the default one all players would use if they opt not to use custom class configs. However the only other configs that would be used if they opt out would be the mariencommander.cfg and aliencommander.cfg, this is because the keymappings before are completely differnt when you change to the RTS aspect of the game.)
aliencommander.cfg
skulk.cfg
gorge.cfg
lerk.cfg
fade.cfg
onos.cfg
marinecommander.cfg
marine.cfg
...and lastly...
spectator.cfg
(Please include a seperate spectator.cfg option the game will recognize whenever you join spectate. Nothing is worse when you have custom bindings and the result is they dont work too well clicking through the spectate menu options. And besides, might aswell since you'll be adding all the others anyways.)
Oh and for those of you who are confused, leaving a config blank means it doesn't overwrite any previous binds. And bind "x" "" makes that key blank and do nothing.
Lets not include mp_blockscripts 1 while were at it. I'll be making another post to explain.
My best setup is: qwerty/asdfgh/zxcvbn for RTS games. I really dislike it when RTS game developers map some special abilities to random places on the same unit like (p psionic storm/b barrage ability/u upgrade something/etc.) with the end result making the game not very user/newb friendly. Relic did this with the first series of Dawn of War games and Company of Heroes, and the end result was it didn't really keep any new players around, just the hardcore people from tabletop.
Anyways, another good idea mentioned in another post is to have class specific config.cfgs. Like in TF2 when you switch from Soldier to Scout, the game switches from soldier.cfg to scout.cfg when you spawn as that class.
In NS obviously, this would be the instant you start morphing to that class, so from lerker to fade. However if you do plan to include a cancel morphing button (with some consequences possibly) then you would make the config change when you complete you morph and are the new class.
So the list of configs you would need (as far as I know from NS1):
config.cfg
(This is the default one all players would use if they opt not to use custom class configs. However the only other configs that would be used if they opt out would be the mariencommander.cfg and aliencommander.cfg, this is because the keymappings before are completely differnt when you change to the RTS aspect of the game.)
aliencommander.cfg
skulk.cfg
gorge.cfg
lerk.cfg
fade.cfg
onos.cfg
marinecommander.cfg
marine.cfg
...and lastly...
spectator.cfg
(Please include a seperate spectator.cfg option the game will recognize whenever you join spectate. Nothing is worse when you have custom bindings and the result is they dont work too well clicking through the spectate menu options. And besides, might aswell since you'll be adding all the others anyways.)
Oh and for those of you who are confused, leaving a config blank means it doesn't overwrite any previous binds. And bind "x" "" makes that key blank and do nothing.
Lets not include mp_blockscripts 1 while were at it. I'll be making another post to explain.
Comments
Perfect. This would solve a lot of problems.
<b>vote <!--coloro:#00DD00--><span style="color:#00DD00"><!--/coloro-->yes<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b>
My best setup is: qwerty/asdfgh/zxcvbn for RTS games. I really dislike it when RTS game developers map some special abilities to random places on the same unit like (p psionic storm/b barrage ability/u upgrade something/etc.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, it's actually T for psyonic storm, and it's one of the most easily reachable spell hotkeys in the game. Try using b<u>u</u>rrow lurker when you hotkey all of your units to 1-5. P is for Probe as protoss.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->with the end result making the game not very user/newb friendly. Relic did this with the first series of Dawn of War games and Company of Heroes, and the end result was it didn't really keep any new players around, just the hardcore people from tabletop.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your example is irrelevant because I argue that Relic makes absolutely awful strategy games. Star Craft is the only strategy game and has been the only strategy game for the past 10 years and has survived even with a very clunky hotkey system. Every other game is a thinly veiled tactical RPG.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways, another good idea mentioned in another post is to have class specific config.cfgs. Like in TF2 when you switch from Soldier to Scout, the game switches from soldier.cfg to scout.cfg when you spawn as that class.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A very good idea.
Edit: I believe I've already made a post in defense of the QWER ASDF ZXCV hotkeys. Those were among the best things about commanding in Natural Selection.
qwe
asd
yxc
all easely reachable.
The most annoying thing in control schemes is when there is something that can't be rebound. Like you can rebind some keys, but not the sacred letter "h" to select weapon fire mode, or "ctrl-shift-1" is always center view on group 1. Awful.
In addition, multiple contexts should allow for multiple bindings. Just because I bound "e" to drop medkit as comm, doesn't mean that "e" has to be for upgrading armor 1 if I'm selecting the arms lab. And just because I bound weapon ability 1 to number 3 shouldn't mean if I press 3 in a menu I select option 1.
Idea: A simplified key bindings option screen just sets multiple contexts/classes impulses to a single easy to remember button, so e.g. ability 3 is always number 3, but advanced key bindings screen lets you set each context/class key separately.
My best setup is: qwerty/asdfgh/zxcvbn for RTS games. I really dislike it when RTS game developers map some special abilities to random places on the same unit like (p psionic storm/b barrage ability/u upgrade something/etc.) with the end result making the game not very user/newb friendly. Relic did this with the first series of Dawn of War games and Company of Heroes, and the end result was it didn't really keep any new players around, just the hardcore people from tabletop.
Anyways, another good idea mentioned in another post is to have class specific config.cfgs. Like in TF2 when you switch from Soldier to Scout, the game switches from soldier.cfg to scout.cfg when you spawn as that class.
In NS obviously, this would be the instant you start morphing to that class, so from lerker to fade. However if you do plan to include a cancel morphing button (with some consequences possibly) then you would make the config change when you complete you morph and are the new class.
So the list of configs you would need (as far as I know from NS1):
config.cfg
(This is the default one all players would use if they opt not to use custom class configs. However the only other configs that would be used if they opt out would be the mariencommander.cfg and aliencommander.cfg, this is because the keymappings before are completely differnt when you change to the RTS aspect of the game.)
aliencommander.cfg
skulk.cfg
gorge.cfg
lerk.cfg
fade.cfg
onos.cfg
marinecommander.cfg
marine.cfg
...and lastly...
spectator.cfg
(Please include a seperate spectator.cfg option the game will recognize whenever you join spectate. Nothing is worse when you have custom bindings and the result is they dont work too well clicking through the spectate menu options. And besides, might aswell since you'll be adding all the others anyways.)
Oh and for those of you who are confused, leaving a config blank means it doesn't overwrite any previous binds. And bind "x" "" makes that key blank and do nothing.
Lets not include mp_blockscripts 1 while were at it. I'll be making another post to explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a brilliant idea. I like the idea of seperate configs. The best part is, it is up to the player on whether they want to use some or all of the class specific configs. There should be a general config so that if the player chooses, continues to use one config for the game.
I would also like to see customizable selection keys, while I think the current system always worked for me, I beleive that some others may not like it. Again, giving control to the players on whether or not they decide to use a new system.
I also agree with blockscripts. Caused more trouble than what its worth.
Not arguing here but I was making a general reference. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Even Starcraft has this problem with some if not most units. You shouldn't really be forced to go to one end of the keyboard to another. It should be completely customizable by the player.
The only game that has had any sort of success in this department is Command and Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars. However, EA is soo evil in other ways and makes it so it kinda outweighs that note anyways. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
But I don't know about spectator.cfg, do we really want to help the army of morons change their name and spam the lyrics of 'never gonna give you up'?
But I don't know about spectator.cfg, do we really want to help the army of morons change their name and spam the lyrics of 'never gonna give you up'?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Answer:</b>
Yes
bind "F12" "exec rickastleyloveseveryone.cfg"
We can already do that.
It would be nice to have a spectator config with different types of "movie" binds setup (even if said binds would only work with sv_cheats 1, for camera angles).
qwerty/asdfgh/zxcvbn? that would just be confusing and would not make sense, but I guess it might work for NS because there are fewer hotkeys
Most of the starcraft hotkeys make sense. S for SCV, P for Probe, D for drone. The hotkey is the first letter mostly.
It's not hard to learn.
The hotkeys are far better than most RTS games and gives you plenty of freedom. There is no other RTS game that has hand stances for different purposes. Economy stance, macro stance for example.
What you wrote is just an excuse because you have slow fingers.
<!--quoteo(post=1698770:date=Jan 28 2009, 07:07 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aNytiMe @ Jan 28 2009, 07:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Heh, it's actually T for psyonic storm, and it's one of the most easily reachable spell hotkeys in the game. Try using b<u>u</u>rrow lurker when you hotkey all of your units to 1-5. P is for Probe as protoss.
Your example is irrelevant because I argue that Relic makes absolutely awful strategy games. Star Craft is the only strategy game and has been the only strategy game for the past 10 years and has survived even with a very clunky hotkey system. Every other game is a thinly veiled tactical RPG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No again, the hotkey system is not "clunky".
And what's so hard about burrowing lurks?
Go play SC/BW and check it out yourself. Storm is on T and burrowing lurkers is just annoying.
And just in case you didn't notice, we're not talking about obvious hotkeys ( yeah like the command center only has 2 or 3 abilities ) but like tough ones ? ( Like a Warcraft III Hero can have 4+ spells and still requires the basic like Attack Patrol etc ) so don't go talk about "first letter" crap.
Moreover, using qwerty and stuff removes the basic clashes when translated ( Dota : Magina's ultimate has for long been bound to the same key as hold position in French version :o )
*bangs head on wall*
sure, in Warcraft 3 there are thousands of spells and ######, but in Natural Selection there aren't that many. There are no spells, all you need hotkeys for are buildings, medpacks and etc
(This is the default one all players would use if they opt not to use custom class configs. However the only other configs that would be used if they opt out would be the mariencommander.cfg and aliencommander.cfg, this is because the keymappings before are completely differnt when you change to the RTS aspect of the game.)
aliencommander.cfg
skulk.cfg
gorge.cfg
lerk.cfg
fade.cfg
onos.cfg
marinecommander.cfg
marine.cfg
...and lastly...
spectator.cfg<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah like in team fortress 2.
I really like
[w][e][r][t]
[s][d][f][g]
[x][c][v][b]
for your build menu and ability menu if there is one.
You have 3 rows, 4 columns, say your armor is the 3rd on the top row then that is your [E] button, not "a" for armory.
If you have an ability menu on a unit on building, then [Q] is the first ability.
Just how NS1 was pretty much, but i'd put QAZ for selection keys myself. There is no memorization; You know the menu position, you know the key.
But ingame customization is good. And different customization for each class I guess would be nice.
Or why not if(class=sulk) { q = ... }?
Sulk is the best class. I like the Hive 2 ability to listen to Cure albums.
Grantd, server needs it, but that sounds like something lots of servers would run as I've seen lots of mods for mods with that.
No really, try it on a mic, see how long that lasts.
<b><!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->NSPlayer:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> MY HEALTH IS <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->48<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY ARMOR IS <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->0<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY LOCATION IS <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->CARGO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY CURRENT WEAPON IS <!--coloro:cyan--><span style="color:cyan"><!--/coloro-->PISTOL<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY IP IS <!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->62.183.134.21<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY FAVORITE FLAVOR OF ICE CREAM IS <!--coloro:#350000--><span style="color:#350000"><!--/coloro-->CHOCOLATE<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.</b>
No really, try it on a mic, see how long that lasts.
<b><!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->NSPlayer:<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> MY HEALTH IS <!--coloro:red--><span style="color:red"><!--/coloro-->48<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY ARMOR IS <!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->0<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY LOCATION IS <!--coloro:green--><span style="color:green"><!--/coloro-->CARGO<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY CURRENT WEAPON IS <!--coloro:cyan--><span style="color:cyan"><!--/coloro-->PISTOL<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY IP IS <!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro-->62.183.134.21<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> AND MY FAVORITE FLAVOR OF ICE CREAM IS <!--coloro:#350000--><span style="color:#350000"><!--/coloro-->CHOCOLATE<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You only really need Health, Armor, and possibly Location.
Equipment could be displayed on the scoreboard, or in a seperate team-equipment screen.
Marines could also automatically call out "reloading" via voiced sound clips at a reasonable appropriate rate.
Glad to see this thread has not been completely forgotten.