Wow, very cool ideas in this thread. Gonna chuck my two cents at it, change it around and say how I think it'd work:
First off, I'd think Phase Suit would work best as a strait equal to JP or HA, meaning it is a type of armor, wouldn't limit weapon choice in any way, and could not be worn in conjunction with either of the JP or HA. And it would work similar to the JP in that it doesn't provide armor or change the marine's speed, it just provides the Phase ability described in detail below.
That the Phase Suit would require an Obs, a Phase Gate, a Proto Lab, and a tech specifically for the Phase Suit. (I don't see the point in making an entirely new type of building, just require a phase gate).
For how it would work, I think the "Blink" idea is horrible - first off, it was a Kharaa trait; and second off, it just feels so Kharaa.. just too fluid, too fast for a marine. The "Commander Controlled" idea is interesting, but I'd suggest changing it slightly. This is how I would see it panning out: -The commander selects a Phase Suit Marine, goes to where he wants the marine to phase to and creates a "Phase Here" waypoint - which could not be placed around 'too much' infestation. How much is 'too much'? No idea.. it would need to be play tested to see if you'd really want a team of marines phasing directly to a hive or what. -Said selected Phase Suit Marine recieves a message: "The Commander would like you to phase to displayed waypoint." And a button becomes lit up on his HUD - which he must either click or press a coreseponding key on the keyboard. -If the Phase Suit Marine selects "No" or doesn't click, nothing happens.. maybe the Commander gets pissed. -If the Phase Suit Marine selects "Yes", he then cannot move or shoot while his Phase Suit activates (he can only look around) which takes somewhere between 5 and 15 seconds.. again, would need to be play tested. *** For phasing comes an issue - what exactly should be phased? Some people have suggested all marines within a radius, some have said just the Phase Suit Marine.. I suggest something in between. That the Phase Suit transports the marine wearing it (of course), plus either - 2 marines or 1 HA marine. This is because the Phase Suit's tech would be transporting a certain amount of Mass. The two marines could be wearing either regular armor or JPs. But how to choose what to send with the PSM? I'd think that while he is immobile and waiting to phase/suit is doing 'its thing' teammates can walk up to him and 'use key' him to be part of his phase group. Once part of a 'phase group', they would be unable to move or shoot just like the PSM. -Possibly with a way for the PSM to deny someone to phase with him. *** -While the suit is activating, I would expect a similar sound on both the Phase Suit Marine and the point to which he is planning to travel would make similar sound and light displays as people have already suggested, and upon actual transfer of energy (or bending of space) for there to be a 'boom' or 'phase gate sound' of some sort which simply announces the presence or occurance of the phase. This transfer should be instantaneous (imo). -After the suit activates and the actual phase takes place, some people have suggested blurred vision, or lack of control, or being unable to move for a few seconds.. but I think the fact that you just phased into a completely new area which most likely has Kharaa waiting for you should be enough to dissorient you. Another suggestion was to damage armor or completely remove it - I would suggest that the phase process takes 25% of all phasing marine's armor. You gotta think - with the warning on the other side, its possible a couple Kharaa will be waiting, and if you remove all armor the marines would be defenseless to their massive jaws/claws/etc.
As for how the suit works, I'd expect it to have a charge similar to an Obs, but making it cost Res would also work.
A couple more suggestions that I don't think have been given yet - I'd like to see a few more things as part of the Phase Suit:
First - I'd like the PSM to be able to activate himself, but only to send himself back to an active phase gate (or obs, not sure which but not both). This could only work if he had enough charge (just as if the Commander were sending him somewhere), would take the same amount of time to activate, and would allow other marines to phase with him just like normal function.
Second - I think the PSM should function similar to the Observatory's ability to uncloak Kharaa in a radius around them. Or possibly some other constant effect function which isn't too powerful, the de-cloaking effect makes sense as it's basically turning a player into a mobile support platform. And that could actually be taken a lot further if you wanted it to, it just makes sense to give them a constant ability when they can't constantly phase - plus just to give a PSM a secondary use for if the entire map is covered in infestation.
I forgot something. The one thing I <u>don't</u> like about the phase suit is that its effectively an end-game "cheat". There would be very few opportunities to use it - hence my suggestion to have it also provide a passive ability and increase its usefulness.
But even more important than it not being used very often, it gives the TSA something which the Kharaa don't have an equivalent for. So before something cool like this is brought into the game, I'd like to see the Kharaa recieving an equally powerful ability or end game tactic/turn around.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1699266:date=Feb 3 2009, 12:36 PM:name=botchiball)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (botchiball @ Feb 3 2009, 12:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1699266"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But even more important than it not being used very often, it gives the TSA something which the Kharaa don't have an equivalent for. So before something cool like this is brought into the game, I'd like to see the Kharaa recieving an equally powerful ability or end game tactic/turn around.
But who knows what that would be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> hopefully kharaa still have the tunnel ability which is similar the p0rtal game
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
edited August 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1725430:date=Aug 29 2009, 08:35 AM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 29 2009, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is a necromancer in our midst. Decent idea though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> oops ... i brought it up because of that other teleporation suit thread
also i guess this idea is now completely redundant with squad based teleporting
Haha it would be an awesome synergy between commander and marines to have a phase suit. It would take the comm some good micro but you could just phase the marine to the back of the pack when theyre about to die. The aliens would probably never kill anything if the comm was good enough, though.
I like the idea, as long as you limit the range. And it wouldn't have to be a suit. Just an upgrade, but it would need to have a warmup/warmdown time (like 2mins). Maybe you could upgrade the number of pepole you can phase.
Especially given that I hear the warfare is getting a bit static, this would bring more versatility to tactics.
it should provide an armor regen boost or hp regen to ally marines near it, it should be very expensive suit say in ns1 terms 40 res just for it, he should have added hp and so he is guarded, this will make it so that he is the backbone of the force, strengthening them. the reasoning behind this is he acts as a beacon for nanites aswell. he glows in them, they are almost covering him and you can even see a small layer thats how many there are. so that he teleports his squad just outside a hive room because infestation is too tough there, but is still in light infestation, so that everyone for 20 seconds has this bacteria inside thier bodies because of errors, and start vomiting, tipping over from the effects, this serves as a warning for aliens, vomiting = marines are trying a sneak attack. and the tipping over is just so that teleporting into an unscanned area is just a bad choice, well maybe instead of tipping over it could be they have foggy vision.
but teleporting into non infested area is instant, gives no disadvantages.
Just gonna say another way this can work... how about a phase suit that beams you to any phasegate on the map, regardless of where you are in the map. In this way it won't be an instant teleport to anywhere in the map like the current idea. Furthermore, i suggest this be a technology that the entire team receives. How cool if the commander can say he needs the entire team at phasegate #3 yesterday.
What if the phase suit simply made the marine <!--coloro:#66AAFF--><span style="color:#66AAFF"><!--/coloro--><b>"out of phase"</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
The equipped marine could press +movement the instant an alien was about to strike, causing the alien to simply pass through the marine. The marine's bullets would also pass through everything without causing damage. It could be implemented as a burst affect (0.5sec duration) with a cooldown (4sec maybe) or as a continues affect that drains energy (like a JP).
It would fit much better with the marine concept of dodging damage rather than teleporting around like an alien. It is also on the same micro scale combat as JPs and HA.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->While focus counters JPs, PSs would counter focus. Oh, and marines could obviously phase out of devour (pwned).<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1725546:date=Aug 30 2009, 03:36 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Aug 30 2009, 03:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if the phase suit simply made the marine <!--coloro:#66AAFF--><span style="color:#66AAFF"><!--/coloro--><b>"out of phase"</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
The equipped marine could press +movement the instant an alien was about to strike, causing the alien to simply pass through the marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be cool if you could also walk through walls :P
If this ever gets implemented, marines should be paralyzed and vulnerable at arrival, not at start of the journey. That would take care of cheesy tactics like phasing grenade launcher (or equivalent) into a hive. But I'm still concerned that this 'phase suit' would require to keep some alien(s) in base at all times, which would SUCK. Surprise, no one likes to be out of the game. That's why I don't like symmetric objective games - when both sides are attacking and defending, defenders are getting much less action. Attackers fight each other and defenders, but defenders only (may) interact with attackers. Enemy Territory gets it right.
I Really like. This idea, but to balance it I would suggest a few things. 1, The further the distance jump the longer you have to faze out were the marine is vulnerable to attacks. Simular to the Chrono Troopers ala Red Alert. 2, Jumping into areas with Di or spore could inflict damage to the user as the DI penetrates the loose molocuals of the body 3, or finally limit the distance avalable to teleport to a set distance around a power node. So only areas that are marine controlled or powered can be possible teleport locations. With such an enthisis on Power grid control I think this could be extremely succesfull.
schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1725622:date=Aug 31 2009, 01:51 PM:name=Sirot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot @ Aug 31 2009, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725622"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On further thought, I actually really like this idea. This and the Gorge Belly Slide are my favorite ideas to come out of this forum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1725546:date=Aug 30 2009, 04:36 AM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Aug 30 2009, 04:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1725546"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if the phase suit simply made the marine <!--coloro:#66AAFF--><span style="color:#66AAFF"><!--/coloro--><b>"out of phase"</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->.
The equipped marine could press +movement the instant an alien was about to strike, causing the alien to simply pass through the marine. The marine's bullets would also pass through everything without causing damage. It could be implemented as a burst affect (0.5sec duration) with a cooldown (4sec maybe) or as a continues affect that drains energy (like a JP).
It would fit much better with the marine concept of dodging damage rather than teleporting around like an alien. It is also on the same micro scale combat as JPs and HA.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->While focus counters JPs, PSs would counter focus. Oh, and marines could obviously phase out of devour (pwned).<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I like this idea.
Out of phase = different phase index = your body is in space or solid rock / steel / concrete / whathaveyou. No! phase out of devour = pwned self, onos doesnt have devour anymore.
There are also different approaches to this, but most theories lead to a problem: molecule destabilization, making the body stay out of phase indefinitely, causing many problems which almost all end in death.
Oh man.. reading the topic, it sounded dumb, but I clicked. And I read. And it's awesome!
But it needs limitations. Like no jetpack, maybe there could be a wavey image a second or so when you're about to phase in. But not too long, I mean if you can't ambush there is less point. Could also do something like needing a drone in the area for them to phase, so you can't just easily get in the middle of someones base. Hopefully drones can go in vents like skulks, though. I also hope something can be done to make it an OFFENSIVE item, to ambush and backdoor, not for tele'ing people away when they're about to die!
I'd also prefer the commander setting a point to phase to and that alerting people with the phase suits to jump in when they wish to(maybe an auto-consent option?)
Alot has been said in a few replies that I like. Most I'd like taken from my post is that doing something requiring drone where they phase to can help with the balance.
and like schkorpio said, this and belly slide are the best ideas I've seen so far. :P
Sooo for those of us who haven't played Red Alert 2 Yuri's revenge... The chrono-legander was a unit on einstiens(USA) team. He costed a lot and could tele port anywhere. the farther teh teleport the longer it took, remaining in his own little dimension were nothing could hurt him, he killed by tele porting things... else where
anyone seen the intro to quake 3? (I never acualy used the tele in the game, but kick as cinimatic) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gteDPSJX9m0&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gteDPSJX9m0...feature=related</a>
Comments
First off, I'd think Phase Suit would work best as a strait equal to JP or HA, meaning it is a type of armor, wouldn't limit weapon choice in any way, and could not be worn in conjunction with either of the JP or HA. And it would work similar to the JP in that it doesn't provide armor or change the marine's speed, it just provides the Phase ability described in detail below.
That the Phase Suit would require an Obs, a Phase Gate, a Proto Lab, and a tech specifically for the Phase Suit. (I don't see the point in making an entirely new type of building, just require a phase gate).
For how it would work, I think the "Blink" idea is horrible - first off, it was a Kharaa trait; and second off, it just feels so Kharaa.. just too fluid, too fast for a marine. The "Commander Controlled" idea is interesting, but I'd suggest changing it slightly. This is how I would see it panning out:
-The commander selects a Phase Suit Marine, goes to where he wants the marine to phase to and creates a "Phase Here" waypoint - which could not be placed around 'too much' infestation. How much is 'too much'? No idea.. it would need to be play tested to see if you'd really want a team of marines phasing directly to a hive or what.
-Said selected Phase Suit Marine recieves a message: "The Commander would like you to phase to displayed waypoint." And a button becomes lit up on his HUD - which he must either click or press a coreseponding key on the keyboard.
-If the Phase Suit Marine selects "No" or doesn't click, nothing happens.. maybe the Commander gets pissed.
-If the Phase Suit Marine selects "Yes", he then cannot move or shoot while his Phase Suit activates (he can only look around) which takes somewhere between 5 and 15 seconds.. again, would need to be play tested.
***
For phasing comes an issue - what exactly should be phased?
Some people have suggested all marines within a radius, some have said just the Phase Suit Marine.. I suggest something in between. That the Phase Suit transports the marine wearing it (of course), plus either - 2 marines or 1 HA marine. This is because the Phase Suit's tech would be transporting a certain amount of Mass. The two marines could be wearing either regular armor or JPs.
But how to choose what to send with the PSM? I'd think that while he is immobile and waiting to phase/suit is doing 'its thing' teammates can walk up to him and 'use key' him to be part of his phase group. Once part of a 'phase group', they would be unable to move or shoot just like the PSM.
-Possibly with a way for the PSM to deny someone to phase with him.
***
-While the suit is activating, I would expect a similar sound on both the Phase Suit Marine and the point to which he is planning to travel would make similar sound and light displays as people have already suggested, and upon actual transfer of energy (or bending of space) for there to be a 'boom' or 'phase gate sound' of some sort which simply announces the presence or occurance of the phase. This transfer should be instantaneous (imo).
-After the suit activates and the actual phase takes place, some people have suggested blurred vision, or lack of control, or being unable to move for a few seconds.. but I think the fact that you just phased into a completely new area which most likely has Kharaa waiting for you should be enough to dissorient you. Another suggestion was to damage armor or completely remove it - I would suggest that the phase process takes 25% of all phasing marine's armor. You gotta think - with the warning on the other side, its possible a couple Kharaa will be waiting, and if you remove all armor the marines would be defenseless to their massive jaws/claws/etc.
As for how the suit works, I'd expect it to have a charge similar to an Obs, but making it cost Res would also work.
A couple more suggestions that I don't think have been given yet - I'd like to see a few more things as part of the Phase Suit:
First - I'd like the PSM to be able to activate himself, but only to send himself back to an active phase gate (or obs, not sure which but not both). This could only work if he had enough charge (just as if the Commander were sending him somewhere), would take the same amount of time to activate, and would allow other marines to phase with him just like normal function.
Second - I think the PSM should function similar to the Observatory's ability to uncloak Kharaa in a radius around them. Or possibly some other constant effect function which isn't too powerful, the de-cloaking effect makes sense as it's basically turning a player into a mobile support platform. And that could actually be taken a lot further if you wanted it to, it just makes sense to give them a constant ability when they can't constantly phase - plus just to give a PSM a secondary use for if the entire map is covered in infestation.
But even more important than it not being used very often, it gives the TSA something which the Kharaa don't have an equivalent for. So before something cool like this is brought into the game, I'd like to see the Kharaa recieving an equally powerful ability or end game tactic/turn around.
But who knows what that would be.
But who knows what that would be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hopefully kharaa still have the tunnel ability which is similar the p0rtal game
oops ... i brought it up because of that other teleporation suit thread
also i guess this idea is now completely redundant with squad based teleporting
Especially given that I hear the warfare is getting a bit static, this would bring more versatility to tactics.
but teleporting into non infested area is instant, gives no disadvantages.
what you thibnk? :D
The equipped marine could press +movement the instant an alien was about to strike, causing the alien to simply pass through the marine. The marine's bullets would also pass through everything without causing damage. It could be implemented as a burst affect (0.5sec duration) with a cooldown (4sec maybe) or as a continues affect that drains energy (like a JP).
It would fit much better with the marine concept of dodging damage rather than teleporting around like an alien. It is also on the same micro scale combat as JPs and HA.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->While focus counters JPs, PSs would counter focus. Oh, and marines could obviously phase out of devour (pwned).<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The equipped marine could press +movement the instant an alien was about to strike, causing the alien to simply pass through the marine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be cool if you could also walk through walls :P
If they were still able to devour -.-
I kinda like the idea, but it'd need to be restricted to stop phasing into hives and siege rooms early in the game.
That's why I don't like symmetric objective games - when both sides are attacking and defending, defenders are getting much less action. Attackers fight each other and defenders, but defenders only (may) interact with attackers. Enemy Territory gets it right.
1, The further the distance jump the longer you have to faze out were the marine is vulnerable to attacks. Simular to the Chrono Troopers ala Red Alert.
2, Jumping into areas with Di or spore could inflict damage to the user as the DI penetrates the loose molocuals of the body
3, or finally limit the distance avalable to teleport to a set distance around a power node. So only areas that are marine controlled or powered can be possible teleport locations. With such an enthisis on Power grid control I think this could be extremely succesfull.
Somehow, I feel like this can be somehow tied to the marine squad reinforcing mechanic.
*blushes*
The equipped marine could press +movement the instant an alien was about to strike, causing the alien to simply pass through the marine. The marine's bullets would also pass through everything without causing damage. It could be implemented as a burst affect (0.5sec duration) with a cooldown (4sec maybe) or as a continues affect that drains energy (like a JP).
It would fit much better with the marine concept of dodging damage rather than teleporting around like an alien. It is also on the same micro scale combat as JPs and HA.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->While focus counters JPs, PSs would counter focus. Oh, and marines could obviously phase out of devour (pwned).<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this idea.
phase out of devour = pwned self, onos doesnt have devour anymore.
There are also different approaches to this, but most theories lead to a problem: molecule destabilization, making the body stay out of phase indefinitely, causing many problems which almost all end in death.
And I read.
And it's awesome!
But it needs limitations. Like no jetpack, maybe there could be a wavey image a second or so when you're about to phase in. But not too long, I mean if you can't ambush there is less point.
Could also do something like needing a drone in the area for them to phase, so you can't just easily get in the middle of someones base. Hopefully drones can go in vents like skulks, though.
I also hope something can be done to make it an OFFENSIVE item, to ambush and backdoor, not for tele'ing people away when they're about to die!
I'd also prefer the commander setting a point to phase to and that alerting people with the phase suits to jump in when they wish to(maybe an auto-consent option?)
Alot has been said in a few replies that I like. Most I'd like taken from my post is that doing something requiring drone where they phase to can help with the balance.
and like schkorpio said, this and belly slide are the best ideas I've seen so far. :P
The chrono-legander was a unit on einstiens(USA) team.
He costed a lot and could tele port anywhere.
the farther teh teleport the longer it took, remaining in his own little dimension were nothing could hurt him,
he killed by tele porting things... else where
anyone seen the intro to quake 3? (I never acualy used the tele in the game, but kick as cinimatic)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gteDPSJX9m0&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gteDPSJX9m0...feature=related</a>
FTW
Had an anuerysm.
I like the idea, it adds a new and nice strategy^^