Motion Tracking Is God

Rolling_RockRolling_Rock Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8677Members
<div class="IPBDescription">N'uff said.</div> Earlier I had a thread about distress beacon and calling into question the "standard" build order.

I've been playing games with very good commanders who build the observatory first thing and research motion tracking ASAP. What do they sacrifice for this? Turrets.

I know most of you are thinking it's crazy, but right at the very beginning, having motion tracking is a frick'n godsend. Not to mention if even ONE MAN gets to an empty hive, he can plop down a phase gate and the whole team can be there in seconds. Very nice in early walled-off hives like Ventilation on Caged.

If you're a marine on the ground and you know how to read motion tracking, you can learn a lot from it. You know which hive they're at. You know how many are near you. You know if one is moving through a vent, or coming down a main tunnel based on how it moves and how far away it is. It's crazy. It's ESP.

And it keeps you alive. A LOT.

Saving even a couple marine lives in the early game can mean the difference between a successful hive cap, resource cap, or rush defense. Nothing saves their lives better than SHOWING them where the aliens are.

What I like best is watching skulks run around corners, then watching that little blue circle going up the side of the wall and hiding above the archway. I waltz over, spin around and gun them down. They're all like 'wtf!?!?' cuz they don't expect motion tracking so early.

Really screws up their stealth game and gives marines a great advantage.

So for all you commanders and build orders out there.

Motion Tracking is God.

N'uff said.

Comments

  • General_TsoGeneral_Tso Join Date: 2002-11-29 Member: 10240Members
    i might try this next time i'm commander.

    i think with motion tracking i'll be able to send fewer marines into the hive and leave a mechanic in base to put up 2 turrets after i get a phase gate up.
  • BastardBastard Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8561Members
    The more I use it, the more I love it. In the list of upgrades, it's definitely first. Not only can I react to a nearby enemy, but I can also hunt them down if need be because I know where they're massing and hiding.

    So highly cool, so highly useful...

    *sigh* <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> | wall | <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • General_TsoGeneral_Tso Join Date: 2002-11-29 Member: 10240Members
    edited November 2002
  • JujiJuji Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9153Members
    edited November 2002
    Lots of people are probably thinking that Rolling Rock is living up to his name a little "too" much, but he's telling the truth. The only catch is that it's really only effective if you have good marine players. For your average games, I think you are rolling the dice with this build order. Not only do you risk getting booted from the cc, but lots of people aren't able to kill skulks, even when they see them coming.

    Some people don't seem to know how motion tracking works either, which is too bad. Just the other night there was this huge blue dot around the corner so I backed off and waited for the skulk to come. Well, another player that was with me ran right up to the corner with the blue dot, turned around and stood there looking at me. Out runs the skulk and just before he was about to make a meal out of my newbie teamate I managed to put him down.

    Barring an excess of new players though, this IS the way to go. You will live much longer when you can see those pretty blue dots.

    I've never tried it, but this also might be good for early hive rushes (obs first I mean). When you are ready, rush the aliens main hive. If the **obscenity** hits the fan, use beacon to get your marines back into action. Then you could either back off, or send them in again. Gives you a kind of safety net if your plan fails.
  • othellothell Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4183Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    hrmmmm....

    Flatline... use this and tell me how it works. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DiscobirdDiscobird Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7489Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Juji+Nov 30 2002, 02:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Juji @ Nov 30 2002, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    I've never tried it, but this also might be good for early hive rushes (obs first I mean). Research distress beacon and when you are ready, rush the aliens main hive. If the **obscenity** hits the fan, use beacon to get your marines back into action.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Just a little nitpick-- you don't have to research distress beacon. It comes with the Observatory. Just press the button once and you get the effects.
  • XiaoXiaoXiaoXiao Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9543Members
    Is this just me or sometimes the motion tracker only tracks hives........
  • matsomatso Master of Patches Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
    Yes, motion tracking - WHEN IT WORKS - is INCREDIBLY good. It makes the early part of the game, when the Kharaa relies on skulks, an excersise in skulk extermination.

    The only reason it isn't used more is that it seems to be non-functional in about 90% of all games I've played since 1.02. I don't know if it is because it's disabled by server admins, or if it is a bug.

    Now, I don't know. I think it is just too good. Apart from it being God in its own right, it also wipes out the last vestiges of usefulness of the sensor chamber upgrade, as cloaking becomes about 90% useless. At least the range should be cut dramatically - to about siege turret range, actually. Then it wouldn't be the no-brainer upgrade it is now.
  • HaydukeHayduke Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5048Members
    This sounds very cool... I usually build observatory first anyway. For some reason I never thought of upgrading MT right away. It's definitely more useful in the early game.

    Thanks for the tip.
  • General_TsoGeneral_Tso Join Date: 2002-11-29 Member: 10240Members
    maybe alien-side upgrades prevent the motion tracking from working as well

    if that's the case then early game motion tracking would be huge advantage
  • bitninebitnine Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9283Members
    Well, as long as it falls into place it can be very effective. That is, if you have marines who know to use motion tracking and can aim well enough for it to make a difference, it's good. As long as it isn't broken for the players on your server.

    If you have a handle that the above conditions can be met, you can really use it to clean up. Motion tracking with marines can really be effective against skulks. Using a combination of motion tracking and distress beacon, you can do a very death-heavy rush and grab some resource nodes. Then with phase gates you can capalize on the alien's inability to respawn quickly and hone in on their hive. After the hive is gone, the aliens are done. At the movement, if you do it quick enough, the aliens won't have time enough to save up for a second hive before they automatically die.
  • GreyPawsGreyPaws Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8659Members
    I would be tempted to say that yes motion tracking is the best update to get at the start, but you must consider the fact that it comes from an observatory, and thats the only update you can get from it, the reason I bring this up is because I build an arms lab after two (or one if I have real good marines) inf portals and armory. Why do this you ask, armor and weaps upgrades surely arn't as good as MT, your right, but think about this, after say you get lvl 1 armor, you can send people out to capture resources, hives, etc, and every time you have enough for an upgrade you can go back and click on your already built arms lab and get it. I find in the early parts of a round there isn't much action, which means no dropping ammo and health for the most part, and definatly no need for weaps yet, securing random resc towers, w/o having to defend them is a big help, and you can usually get a hive locked down without too much conflict if your marines are good, and all the while you'll have an arms lab to do updates in. I find after about 10 mins I can fairly easily have 2-3 resc points (depends on map) a hive, lvl 2 armor and weaps (sometimes lvl 3 if aliens arn't together) and enough to build observitory and get MT. It works for me.

    Warning: Marines with talent needed not to get owned
  • JujiJuji Join Date: 2002-11-18 Member: 9153Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just a little nitpick-- you don't have to research distress beacon. It comes with the Observatory. Just press the button once and you get the effects. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Like I said, I never tried it <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> . I'll fix that though, thanks.
  • DiscobirdDiscobird Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7489Members
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Nov 30 2002, 08:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Nov 30 2002, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would be tempted to say that yes motion tracking is the best update to get at the start, but you must consider the fact that it comes from an observatory, and thats the only update you can get from it [...]<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Observatories also let you build phase gates, which you will need sooner or later.

    <!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Nov 30 2002, 08:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Nov 30 2002, 08:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
    The reason I bring this up is because I build an arms lab after two (or one if I have real good marines) inf portals and armory.<b>[...]</b>I find after about 10 mins I can fairly easily have 2-3 resc points (depends on map) a hive, lvl 2 armor and weaps (sometimes lvl 3 if aliens arn't together) and enough to build observitory and get MT. It works for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Hmm, interesting. I'll have to try that in my next game.
  • ogzogz Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9765Members
    the obs rush and arms lab rush just shows how useless the turret factory really is <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TheGunslingerTheGunslinger Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8126Members
    Whenever I am a Commander, I always seem to forget about the Observatory.
  • sekdarsekdar Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9564Members
    what's the range on motion tracking? does one observatory give you MT for the whole length of the map?
  • RenegadeOTVRenegadeOTV Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10192Members
    I don't know where it is on the HUD.. Can someone circle it in a screenshot please.. I'm almost sure my commanders don't research it becuase people yell for it all the way through the game.
  • XiaoXiaoXiaoXiao Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9543Members
    When I am comm, I ALWAYS research MT first......until 1.03. I can only see hives with that and thats 2-5 min into the game. I don't think it is an upgrade.
  • Canadianmonk3yCanadianmonk3y Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8465Members
    Motion tracking owns all.
    That is if you have marines who are smarter than a rock, and can aim well enough to be able to hit a wall two feet away, but that is usually not the case.
    In the hands of a decent-good player though, marines turn into killing machines with motion tracking.
    You can go to new heights of alien containment by going gorge assassin. (sp?)
  • Rolling_RockRolling_Rock Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8677Members
    Motion tracking does show hives. They're the circles that are stationary. But it only shows hives that are active or building - it doesn't show empty hives.

    This is useful for determining if the aliens are building a hive. But if there's a lot of activity in there, it can be hard to be certain. Usually if you move around the area, and if you know where the hive *should* be, then you can pick out which circle is a hive, or if it is there at all - without needing to go in.

    Then there's the really easy way to determine: the commander spends 1 resource point and does an observatory scan of the room. Not many do that, but it shows the commander the entire room as if a marine was inside, including all aliens and structures present, cloaked or no.


    Regarding cloaking....

    MT does not make cloaking useless - far from it. Aliens that do not move do not show up on MT. Likewise, aliens with cloaking that do not move become invisible. So you are cloaked both to MT and to the naked eye.

    However, if you move....a marine good with MT might be able to pick out with good accuracy your general location. A few quick bursts with a LMG will be able to find you. Just look for the blood spray.

    But if the marines weren't paying attention to MT, or don't know how to use it that well, or didn't get a good idea of where you are, cloaking can save yer butt.

    The latter happens to me all the time. I see cloakers, I KNOW they are there, but I don't know their position precisely enough to shoot them. I'm not going to waste too much ammo randomly spraying trying to find them - if I spray too much, cloaker gets me when I'm reloading.


    Just don't do stupid things if you know they have MT - i.e. dont run from a marine, then run up on top of a doorway. He'll see you doing that on MT, and the hunter becomes the hunted.
  • RenegadeOTVRenegadeOTV Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10192Members
    Can someone explain how it works? I don't understand it.
  • CoolHungDaddyCoolHungDaddy Join Date: 2002-11-28 Member: 10148Members
    Basically you see a blue circle around every alien on the map that is moving. The bigger the circle, the closer the alien is. When it’s a mere meters away, the circle disappears as to not interfere with your direct sight (if you don't see the alien right now, you're probably dead). The circles get updated every half second or so, so you don't get flowing motions but dots that make small jumps. It’s just like the MT device in aliens, where you can see the dots every time the thing bleeps.

    As a commander I usually go for motion tracking first, but since it seems to be bugged, I tend to go for the arms lab. If it works, it really gives you a huge advantage as a marine, especially in the pre fade part of the game.

    Prota
  • AlarikAlarik Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9326Members
    rolling rock...true, motion tracking in and of itself does not make cloaking useless...BUT the observatory can be used to make scanner sweeps in important areas to uncloak aliens for your marines. any time the aliens have gotten sensory by second hive for some reason, i ask the comm for it all the time, and it helps...you should see the look on their faces as they suddenly become visible before they are ready to ambush <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MagneusMagneus Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9551Members
    Good post Rock. Motion tracking really helps in the beginning. I think I may be one of those commanders you mentioned <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->. Anyway, the main disadvantage is leaving your main base without turrets in the beginning. You have to way the risk. I find that it works well to just leave a guy at base as guard and mechanic until you can afford some turrets in the base.
  • TazolTazol Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8323Members
    I've played with Rolling Rock a few times, and when he has motion tracking, he's almost impossible to kill. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

    P.S. - I hate you Rolling Rock, you kill me too fast. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • TerrTerr Arthritic Skulk Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7486Members
    And don't forget that within an observatory's area of effect (green range circle) no aliens can cloak. Yet another reason to have an observatory at more places than just your main spawn.
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