The_Real_QuasarHas the I.Q. of 12,000 P.E. TeachersJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 9998Members
I'd really like to see a hammer style 'as one' check for texture manipulation... Would make getting a wall texture to look good on a curve so much easier.
I'd really love to have a "multiply" and "devide" Button next to the Texture Scale fields (simply label it as "x2" and "/2" so it won't take up much space). The "Fit" function does a nice job, however a lot of times it creates values like 0.413870. If I wanted the texture to fit in exactly two or four times to look better I have to do the math myself. A "multiply" Button would change 0.413870 -> 0827740 maing sure the texture is smaller but still perfectly aligned at the corners.
<!--quoteo(post=1741966:date=Dec 2 2009, 08:35 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Drown @ Dec 2 2009, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741966"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->requests: *gravity shift! (in any form?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> YES PLEASE!!! Some of my ideas for map design will require this :D So those map ideas are going to stay map ideas for now >.<
More layer control:<ul><li>Change names</li><li>make sublayers</li><li>color also used on viewport wireframes</li><li>select all elements in layer</li></ul>
Grouping possibility:<ul><li>Create groups that allow for 1 click selection</li></ul> Make it so that when you for example select 10 lights you can change them at the same time
Standard visgroups:<ul><li>Hide all models</li><li>Hide all lights (light effect still works) and when hiding lights in a layer they become disabled ----> allow for different light setups</li><li>Hide all geometry</li></ul>
I'm used to using Visual Studio. It would be great if double clicking on boolean properties like "Casts Shadows" toggled them. Much quicker than using a drop down.
Edit: Never mind - I see double clicking the drop down value does this. Makes sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1741790:date=Nov 30 2009, 05:29 PM:name=Daxx)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daxx @ Nov 30 2009, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Auto Layers for Lights and Props.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Similar to this point, just being able to toggle the rendering of the wireframe lights and similar entities that won't be viewable in-game would be nice for getting those fancy screenshots while the editor is still pre-alpha.
Even though there are some good ways around the autosave feature, it would be nice if it worked the same way as hammer - if it crashes it automatically asks if you want to load up the last autosave file that was created.
Gah we need a Zunni-style feature request forum for Spark. It's going to be so much of a chore to track and evaluate all of these suggestions given how they're all in one thread.
Oh well, here goes nothing:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Selection Toggle<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> One of the things I'm finding most frustrating about editing in the perspective view is how it's very easy to select a line instead of a face and then completely garble your geometry.
The request is for a feature where you can choose what items you wish to be valid for selection. I.e. if I was mostly moving about faces, I could toggle off vertex and edge selection. Then toggle them back on when I wanted to perform some slightly different operations.
Not sure if this would be a popular feature to have (and there's no way of easily tracking interest for it due to the cluster---- these 'editor' forums are in), but thought I'd throw it out there.
<!--quoteo(post=1742583:date=Dec 5 2009, 06:35 PM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hoodedsniper @ Dec 5 2009, 06:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The ability to carve. More shapes. And an easier way to make a simple wall lol and so its not connected to the floor. Like a simple 3d box.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Did you watch this video?
The spark editor has a lot of potential and I'm glad to be part of the early group of users testing it out.
That being said, after reading through all of ht posts in this thread, I see a lot of "feature requests" for stuff already included in the HL and HL2 editors. I think this is quite natural as all of the HL/HL2 mappers have been using Hammer for years.
There are a lot of things the Hammer editor does right and there are a lot of things which could use improvement. There are some definite improvements in the Spark editor but it seems to be lacking in basic functionality included in the Hammer editor(s).
Making your own level editor is quite an undertaking and I give the NS2 team props, as well as $$$, for that. However, with the Spark editor I really believe we need all of the good features from the HL/HL2 editors in addition to the improvements made by the NS2 team otherwise it is like taking a step backwards.
On a semi-related/semi-unrelated topic, I am rather disappointed that liquids are not included in the engine; this turns off a whole branch of environments and atmospheric effects.
Just started messing with this tonight and havent read much info, so far ive just created a room, added lights / props including lamps,res nodes and im now working on stairs leading to a second level just to mess around and see how it all works out.
One thing thats annoying me at the moment is i cant seem to extrude multiple sections at a time, extruding 1 wall at a time is getting really annoying. unless ive missed something and im doing it wrong.
also guys dont complain about missing features, this is alpha..not even beta...the maps we make using this editor will be useless by the time the final release comes out anyway. this is just to learn how certain functions will work to give us a head start.
- "Test Map FPS" button for the FPS test of the whole map with lights and physics esp in Lit mode. - "Fly or walk mode" by WASD keys - "Zoom to All Button" to see whole map without selecting anyting (if we lost in a space) - "Lights on off button" to have better lit mode performance - "Statics" menu for the "number of spot lights, point lights, textures, doors, physics objects, vertexes, textures, texture size, map size, avarage map fps etc.) - "Import" for the merge of maps (rooms, corridors) - "Glue" to join corridors of 2 maps (rooms, corridors) - Tab key to change edit boxes (e.g. scales of X, Y, Z) - Opened properties menu ( I dont want to press "+" button everytime while changing sizes etc.)
<!--quoteo(post=1742651:date=Dec 6 2009, 07:06 PM:name=yimmasabi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yimmasabi @ Dec 6 2009, 07:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- "Test Map FPS" button for the FPS test of the whole map with lights and physics esp in Lit mode. - "Fly or walk mode" by WASD keys - "Zoom to All Button" to see whole map without selecting anyting (if we lost in a space) - "Lights on off button" to have better lit mode performance - "Statics" menu for the "number of spot lights, point lights, textures, doors, physics objects, vertexes, textures, texture size, map size, avarage map fps etc.) - "Import" for the merge of maps (rooms, corridors) - "Glue" to join corridors of 2 maps (rooms, corridors) - Tab key to change edit boxes (e.g. scales of X, Y, Z) - Opened properties menu ( I dont want to press "+" button everytime while changing sizes etc.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> - fps will be machine depandant. you need to measure something else like how r_speeds were measured in NS1 - hold right click and WASD keys fly - hit ctrl A then z to zoom all
<!--quoteo(post=1742655:date=Dec 6 2009, 10:43 AM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Loey @ Dec 6 2009, 10:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742655"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- fps will be machine depandant. you need to measure something else like how r_speeds were measured in NS1 - hold right click and WASD keys fly - hit ctrl A then z to zoom all<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanx for the WASD keys fly, i didnt know that. FPS is a key, there may be a requested min fps chart for the CPUs & GPUs Still i prefer Zoom to all button instead of key combinations.
Loving the editor. It saves so much time and planning and really makes fleshing out levels a whole load of fun. I didn't expect it to be anywhere near this good.
Here's some suggestions of what I would like to see.
Also, sorry if some of these have been covered I haven't quite got the time to read everyones post's at the moment.
Controls:
Only took a few minutes to get use to the controls, everything is very familiar and easy to get the hang of.
- A way to be able to select all faces of a corresponding area quickly. I know we aren't quite working with brushes like you would in UT3 but it would be great if a similar adaptation could be implemented. An instance you would use this is extruding a cut face out and then being able to hold down SHIFT+B or something similar to select all faces adjacent to it ( like you would a brush, being able to select adjacent walls, and so forth for easy selection ).
- When selecting multiple lights/meshes being able to still adjust properties and apply them to everything selected. Color, Scale, ect instead of having to manually select all lights/meshes and adjust individually.
- Being able to place geometry into layers ( I know you plan to later from what I have read in the manual but am excited to see it in action).
- Be able to set folders/layers inside of layers to organize a hierarchy for your scene.
- Perhaps an option to set layers with colors and have another option for visibility to render the color on what is in the layer. A transparent texture of the color over the meshes, geometry, ect. Would make it easy to identify what is in each layer, separate areas and so forth.
- A shortcut key to select everything that is inside the layer selected.
- Pre-defined objects for easy use. Square, cylinder, sphere, doughnut. Also the ability to define values before you place them on the stage.
- Also for render states include unlit/untextured (default texture would be applied) and lit/untextured (used for checking lighting).
- Being able to SHIFT+DRAG a mesh to copy/paste a new mesh.
- Grouping for layers.
Also it would be great if we could get a sub forum for the spark editor/natural selection 2 mods/levels/ect.
Evil_bOb1Join Date: 2002-07-13Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
Another random idea brought from photoshop:
Using the line tool, when you hold down Ctrl, each click adds a line between the last vertex and the new one you just created with the click. One click, one line, for complex polygons.
<ul><li>Weld tool!!!!!!(welding lines,verts and detaching faces)</li><li>Extrude lines (select line in move/scale tool and hold down shift to extrude a face like in 3dsmax --->would drasticly increase workflow)</li><li>Ability to instant select attached planes,lines and verts (select everything that is connected to selected face,line or vertex) This would drasticly improve adjusting a scene. The way it is now is way to time consuming having to select face by face but with a function like this you would be able to instand select an entire connected section.</li><li>Ability to affect different texture faces as one</li><li>cordon tool!!!!!(hammer) Noticed that there is no culling happening in the editor resulting in poor performance one the level reaches a certain size. The ability to only view the part of the map that iside the box could help to work around this.</li><li>Ability to move the pivot point if selected item/items (and of course reset pivot)</li><li>Ability to extrude multiple faces at the same time (without creating faces between them if the faces are adjescent to eachother)</li></ul>These and the ones I stated before are my main requests for now.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited December 2009
<ul><li> Auto-load from Auto-save after crash...</li></ul>edit: realized there IS an auto-save... just not loaded again automatically after crash edit2: and now, realized there is a create face button.
dunno if it has been suggested yet but its it technically possible to get several mappers work on one single map simultaneously and all changes are uploaded/shared instantly? would be awesome and this way one could work much effectively on maps together with a group of friends or such.
<!--quoteo(post=1742725:date=Dec 7 2009, 06:10 AM:name=Sheepherd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sheepherd @ Dec 7 2009, 06:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->dunno if it has been suggested yet but its it technically possible to get several mappers work on one single map simultaneously and all changes are uploaded/shared instantly? would be awesome and this way one could work much effectively on maps together with a group of friends or such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That has been suggested and needs the use of (if they don't want to create their own communication tech) <a href="http://verse.blender.org/" target="_blank">Verse</a>
I'm working on a 3D project with a couple of people and we were considering Verse but have found it easier to simply create sections in different files and just append them. The best thing is if you make it to scale in your file correctly, it scales down smoothly :) So long as you set a standard for your team to use "IE: corridors are X wide and Y high" kind of thing... then you're fine.
You can open up a second instance of the editor and open the second file then copy/paste it across to your main one (at least I have been told you can do that, have not tested this myself).
<!--quoteo(post=1742661:date=Dec 6 2009, 05:58 AM:name=thomasj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(thomasj @ Dec 6 2009, 05:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- A way to be able to select all faces of a corresponding area quickly. I know we aren't quite working with brushes like you would in UT3 but it would be great if a similar adaptation could be implemented. An instance you would use this is extruding a cut face out and then being able to hold down SHIFT+B or something similar to select all faces adjacent to it ( like you would a brush, being able to select adjacent walls, and so forth for easy selection ).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The paint select mode does this. Hold shift while in select mode and click-drag to select.
- I think we need an important "Global Light Value" for the map. Most of the maps are being dark. May be we need a trick on lights to make maps a little bit lighter which makes textures a little bit lighter without any calculation. This will also reduce number of lights used in a map.
This value should be editable, map creator may use 0 or 0.05 or 5 etc.
- There can be a property for the textures or objects which is like "Global Light: yes / no". So we may use global light & other lights in most of the rooms and we may disable it in some of dark rooms.
Would it be possible to have a mirror command so props can be mirrored? (Flipped horizontally or vertically instead of rotating which... rotates... ) I dunno how easy that would be to implement but it would be useful in some cases...
I was watching Alien to have some ideas, and i figured one thing :
How can we implement Smoke ? In most science fiction movie there is Engine rooms with smoke getting out of pipes in the path. It's VERY immersive, and sometimes can give very interesting effect with light, and interesting visibility.
Will NS2 be able to reproduce that ? It would be a very nice feature
The point is not to have an all smoky map to crash graphic cards and gameplay, but just to use it with moderation and give to some part of the map something special
The second point is to have On/off/on/off lights on purpose (sorry for my english) you see, when a light isn't working properly, it's alternating very fast between light and dark.
That's a part of dynamic environnement don't you think?
Third point is to have Water (i haven't seen how it looks in ns2). Like in sewer, and also to have kinds of waterfall or Pipes with holes and water going through (impact on visibility and noise)
Comments
The "Fit" function does a nice job, however a lot of times it creates values like 0.413870. If I wanted the texture to fit in exactly two or four times to look better I have to do the math myself. A "multiply" Button would change 0.413870 -> 0827740 maing sure the texture is smaller but still perfectly aligned at the corners.
*gravity shift! (in any form?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
YES PLEASE!!!
Some of my ideas for map design will require this :D
So those map ideas are going to stay map ideas for now >.<
Grouping possibility:<ul><li>Create groups that allow for 1 click selection</li></ul>
Make it so that when you for example select 10 lights you can change them at the same time
Standard visgroups:<ul><li>Hide all models</li><li>Hide all lights (light effect still works) and when hiding lights in a layer they become disabled ----> allow for different light setups</li><li>Hide all geometry</li></ul>
Edit: Never mind - I see double clicking the drop down value does this. Makes sense.
Similar to this point, just being able to toggle the rendering of the wireframe lights and similar entities that won't be viewable in-game would be nice for getting those fancy screenshots while the editor is still pre-alpha.
Even though there are some good ways around the autosave feature, it would be nice if it worked the same way as hammer - if it crashes it automatically asks if you want to load up the last autosave file that was created.
Oh well, here goes nothing:
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Selection Toggle<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
One of the things I'm finding most frustrating about editing in the perspective view is how it's very easy to select a line instead of a face and then completely garble your geometry.
The request is for a feature where you can choose what items you wish to be valid for selection. I.e. if I was mostly moving about faces, I could toggle off vertex and edge selection. Then toggle them back on when I wanted to perform some slightly different operations.
Not sure if this would be a popular feature to have (and there's no way of easily tracking interest for it due to the cluster---- these 'editor' forums are in), but thought I'd throw it out there.
<a href="http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/spark_editor_tutorial_part1.swf" target="_blank">http://www.naturalselection2.com/storage/s...orial_part1.swf</a>
(A maybe even the same thing lit and unlit)
To ease up performance issues a bit when not specifically working on textures.
That being said, after reading through all of ht posts in this thread, I see a lot of "feature requests" for stuff already included in the HL and HL2 editors. I think this is quite natural as all of the HL/HL2 mappers have been using Hammer for years.
There are a lot of things the Hammer editor does right and there are a lot of things which could use improvement. There are some definite improvements in the Spark editor but it seems to be lacking in basic functionality included in the Hammer editor(s).
Making your own level editor is quite an undertaking and I give the NS2 team props, as well as $$$, for that. However, with the Spark editor I really believe we need all of the good features from the HL/HL2 editors in addition to the improvements made by the NS2 team otherwise it is like taking a step backwards.
On a semi-related/semi-unrelated topic, I am rather disappointed that liquids are not included in the engine; this turns off a whole branch of environments and atmospheric effects.
One thing thats annoying me at the moment is i cant seem to extrude multiple sections at a time, extruding 1 wall at a time is getting really annoying. unless ive missed something and im doing it wrong.
also guys dont complain about missing features, this is alpha..not even beta...the maps we make using this editor will be useless by the time the final release comes out anyway. this is just to learn how certain functions will work to give us a head start.
- "Fly or walk mode" by WASD keys
- "Zoom to All Button" to see whole map without selecting anyting (if we lost in a space)
- "Lights on off button" to have better lit mode performance
- "Statics" menu for the "number of spot lights, point lights, textures, doors, physics objects, vertexes, textures, texture size, map size, avarage map fps etc.)
- "Import" for the merge of maps (rooms, corridors)
- "Glue" to join corridors of 2 maps (rooms, corridors)
- Tab key to change edit boxes (e.g. scales of X, Y, Z)
- Opened properties menu ( I dont want to press "+" button everytime while changing sizes etc.)
- "Fly or walk mode" by WASD keys
- "Zoom to All Button" to see whole map without selecting anyting (if we lost in a space)
- "Lights on off button" to have better lit mode performance
- "Statics" menu for the "number of spot lights, point lights, textures, doors, physics objects, vertexes, textures, texture size, map size, avarage map fps etc.)
- "Import" for the merge of maps (rooms, corridors)
- "Glue" to join corridors of 2 maps (rooms, corridors)
- Tab key to change edit boxes (e.g. scales of X, Y, Z)
- Opened properties menu ( I dont want to press "+" button everytime while changing sizes etc.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- fps will be machine depandant. you need to measure something else like how r_speeds were measured in NS1
- hold right click and WASD keys fly
- hit ctrl A then z to zoom all
- hold right click and WASD keys fly
- hit ctrl A then z to zoom all<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanx for the WASD keys fly, i didnt know that.
FPS is a key, there may be a requested min fps chart for the CPUs & GPUs
Still i prefer Zoom to all button instead of key combinations.
Here's some suggestions of what I would like to see.
Also, sorry if some of these have been covered I haven't quite got the time to read everyones post's at the moment.
Controls:
Only took a few minutes to get use to the controls, everything is very familiar and easy to get the hang of.
- A way to be able to select all faces of a corresponding area quickly. I know we aren't quite working with brushes like you would in UT3 but it would be great if a similar adaptation could be implemented. An instance you would use this is extruding a cut face out and then being able to hold down SHIFT+B or something similar to select all faces adjacent to it ( like you would a brush, being able to select adjacent walls, and so forth for easy selection ).
- When selecting multiple lights/meshes being able to still adjust properties and apply them to everything selected. Color, Scale, ect instead of having to manually select all lights/meshes and adjust individually.
- Being able to place geometry into layers ( I know you plan to later from what I have read in the manual but am excited to see it in action).
- Be able to set folders/layers inside of layers to organize a hierarchy for your scene.
- Perhaps an option to set layers with colors and have another option for visibility to render the color on what is in the layer. A transparent texture of the color over the meshes, geometry, ect. Would make it easy to identify what is in each layer, separate areas and so forth.
- A shortcut key to select everything that is inside the layer selected.
- Pre-defined objects for easy use. Square, cylinder, sphere, doughnut. Also the ability to define values before you place them on the stage.
- Also for render states include unlit/untextured (default texture would be applied) and lit/untextured (used for checking lighting).
- Being able to SHIFT+DRAG a mesh to copy/paste a new mesh.
- Grouping for layers.
Also it would be great if we could get a sub forum for the spark editor/natural selection 2 mods/levels/ect.
Using the line tool, when you hold down Ctrl, each click adds a line between the last vertex and the new one you just created with the click. One click, one line, for complex polygons.
This would drasticly improve adjusting a scene. The way it is now is way to time consuming having to select face by face but with a function like this you would be able to instand select an entire connected section.</li><li>Ability to affect different texture faces as one</li><li>cordon tool!!!!!(hammer)
Noticed that there is no culling happening in the editor resulting in poor performance one the level reaches a certain size.
The ability to only view the part of the map that iside the box could help to work around this.</li><li>Ability to move the pivot point if selected item/items (and of course reset pivot)</li><li>Ability to extrude multiple faces at the same time (without creating faces between them if the faces are adjescent to eachother)</li></ul>These and the ones I stated before are my main requests for now.
edit2: and now, realized there is a create face button.
would be awesome and this way one could work much effectively on maps together with a group of friends or such.
would be awesome and this way one could work much effectively on maps together with a group of friends or such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That has been suggested and needs the use of (if they don't want to create their own communication tech) <a href="http://verse.blender.org/" target="_blank">Verse</a>
I'm working on a 3D project with a couple of people and we were considering Verse but have found it easier to simply create sections in different files and just append them.
The best thing is if you make it to scale in your file correctly, it scales down smoothly :)
So long as you set a standard for your team to use "IE: corridors are X wide and Y high" kind of thing... then you're fine.
You can open up a second instance of the editor and open the second file then copy/paste it across to your main one (at least I have been told you can do that, have not tested this myself).
The paint select mode does this. Hold shift while in select mode and click-drag to select.
Most of the maps are being dark. May be we need a trick on lights to make maps a little bit lighter which makes textures a little bit lighter without any calculation.
This will also reduce number of lights used in a map.
This value should be editable, map creator may use 0 or 0.05 or 5 etc.
- There can be a property for the textures or objects which is like "Global Light: yes / no".
So we may use global light & other lights in most of the rooms and we may disable it in some of dark rooms.
I'd like to fool around with the map geometry in Blender ;)
I dunno how easy that would be to implement but it would be useful in some cases...
How can we implement Smoke ?
In most science fiction movie there is Engine rooms with smoke getting out of pipes in the path.
It's VERY immersive, and sometimes can give very interesting effect with light, and interesting visibility.
Will NS2 be able to reproduce that ?
It would be a very nice feature
The point is not to have an all smoky map to crash graphic cards and gameplay, but just to use it with moderation and give to some part of the map
something special
The second point is to have On/off/on/off lights on purpose (sorry for my english) you see, when a light isn't working properly, it's alternating very fast between light and dark.
That's a part of dynamic environnement don't you think?
Third point is to have Water (i haven't seen how it looks in ns2).
Like in sewer, and also to have kinds of waterfall or Pipes with holes and water going through (impact on visibility and noise)