Kill notification
pellaaja
Join Date: 2004-02-07 Member: 26198Members
Join Date: 2004-02-07 Member: 26198Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Disable to make the game more exciting</div>If this has been discussed, then provide with a link please ;)
So, the notification on the screen which indicates that player x got killed by player y with a gun z. I don't know about you guys, but this bothers me since it gives waaaaaaay too much information to both teams. I remember playing DoD:source and the server had disabled this information and I have to say, the gameplay was _totally_ different (in a good way); Did that nade hit its target? Is there a sniper around? Did my teammate just die in that explosion? etc. I guess you could do the same in NS2 and disable it on server side, but.. I have a feeling, that most players would not accept this, because they are <b>so </b>used to it that they make decisions based upon what the screen says. In my eyes, this is kind of slowing progress, makes the gameplay handicapped and the endgame usually is the same (NS games usually played out the same exact way). Think about it;
You make a decision to advance because you saw the alien die thanks to the notification on screen, even when the enemy was behind a corner where you can't see.
You make a decision to wait it out because you don't know if the alien died because you can't see behind the corner, and in the meantime the aliens advance freely because you hide out behind a corner.
Does this make any sense? I really tried to make it clear as possible what I was thinking :D
I think we should test the gameplay this way (alpha or beta whatever it's called)
So, the notification on the screen which indicates that player x got killed by player y with a gun z. I don't know about you guys, but this bothers me since it gives waaaaaaay too much information to both teams. I remember playing DoD:source and the server had disabled this information and I have to say, the gameplay was _totally_ different (in a good way); Did that nade hit its target? Is there a sniper around? Did my teammate just die in that explosion? etc. I guess you could do the same in NS2 and disable it on server side, but.. I have a feeling, that most players would not accept this, because they are <b>so </b>used to it that they make decisions based upon what the screen says. In my eyes, this is kind of slowing progress, makes the gameplay handicapped and the endgame usually is the same (NS games usually played out the same exact way). Think about it;
You make a decision to advance because you saw the alien die thanks to the notification on screen, even when the enemy was behind a corner where you can't see.
You make a decision to wait it out because you don't know if the alien died because you can't see behind the corner, and in the meantime the aliens advance freely because you hide out behind a corner.
Does this make any sense? I really tried to make it clear as possible what I was thinking :D
I think we should test the gameplay this way (alpha or beta whatever it's called)
Comments
With how moddable NS2 is planned to be, I think we'll always be able to make an amusing server mod out of this, and see how it plays out. Maybe even during the Alpha.
If it suits the game and adds to it, so be it. Based on NS1 it doesn't seem to affect as much as in DoD or some other less arcadey game. If the information denial only partitially works, I'd rather stick to the 'classic' approach and develop it as a gameplay element.
But in NS, the world is completely different. Marines have helmet integrated HUDs that give them info about what's going on, on their teammates and enemies. This is more than credible because nowadays, we already have the technology to build such helmets. On that side, have this info about your dead teammates from either the map, your hud, the commander, is entirely part of the NS world.
Aliens also can see the living out of their teammates through walls (at least in NS1) and if you consider all the elements of the species, the developers would surely make that the aliens have special senses or mind abilities equivalent to the marines in that case, in detecting what is living and what is dead on the enemy side as well.
So in both case it is plausible, and for the sake of gameplay it is better to keep it because it is also a RTS game, where you really need to know about your dying units (and usually the enemies will know too) to make up new strategies or adjust one.
Easiest one: Intellegent networks take care of it (Nanites for the rines, bacteria for the aliens).
I'd suggest that there is a simple change in how it is handled in NS2.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine side+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marine side)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Bob <i>Shotgun</i> Fade Icon
Skulk <i>Teeth</i> Bob
Joe <i>MG</i> Lerk
Lerk <i>Gas</i> Joe
Jenn <i>Melee Weapon</i> Onos<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Alien side+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alien side)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->5920 <i>Teeth</i> Light Marine Icon + Shotgun
Scar <i>Gas</i> Jetpack Icon + MG
Jetpack <i>MG</i> Scar
Exo/Heavy <i>melee</i> Fatz
Santa <i>Claws</i> Exo / Heavy Icon + Weapon<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Imo aliens should be notified what weapon the enemy dropped, dunno 'bout alien traitts automaticly notified to marines
don't do this. don't try to justify a gameplay element solely on credibility. either it goes well with gameplay or it doesn't, but to judge it on credibility is foolish; we can be here all day discussing the credibility of the NS universe.
You're right about teammates; blocking everything would indeed be a bad idea, but block the direct notification and let the information come from another source; commander or possibly a third teammate that saw the marine die. You could have some sort of link hooked up on the team that they know if person x just died, BUT you wouldn't know how/by whom/by what. I.e. You would see 3 teammates suddenly flatline; clever attack by skulk pack or an onos? Who knows, the information would come with a delay (teamspeak; commander or someone close by the location).
I think however, that the weapon/alien class used to kill the player should not be shown. That gives too much information to the other team.
And weapons are displayed anyway, at least for now. You can judge from the weapon which alien class killed your buddy, too.
The map should display a sightly larger red cycle when someone dies (Alien as Marine), that's closing in on the last position of the late player.
By comparison, Dystopia (HL2 mod) has hitbeeps when you reg a hit on someone, tac-scans (radar) and "IFF Info" which displayes the enemies health, armor, energy, and some others like abilities. Includes MUCH more than the simple "death notifications" but it still works out fine. NS doesn't have near as much by comparison.
You're right about teammates; blocking everything would indeed be a bad idea, but block the direct notification and let the information come from another source; commander or possibly a third teammate that saw the marine die. You could have some sort of link hooked up on the team that they know if person x just died, BUT you wouldn't know how/by whom/by what. I.e. You would see 3 teammates suddenly flatline; clever attack by skulk pack or an onos? Who knows, the information would come with a delay (teamspeak; commander or someone close by the location).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I want into the game. Notification of your teammates dieing, maybe even the enemies too, but not the how. it adds more fear and strategy into the game, while making those whining and too unskilled to pay attention to teamwork to be happy with knowing if their teammates are alive and if the enemy is dead. Also, if you want to really come down to it, the commander, who will see all the teammates, can yell when they die, and also the dead players will most likely yell out how they died as well. Unless they don't speak English.....
For when you see them, death animations should portray what someone primarily died of (if an alien died of a gunshot, but 90% of the damage _recently_ done to it was from a flamethrower, and it's still burning, it should be clear that it died of the burns and the heat.). But I'd also like to see some particle effects for aliens with range weapons (or kills by structures), when they kill an alien. Like a stream of their life essence coming towards you after a marine die of spores. For marines, they could have devices on their guns or arms that show if their mines and other equipment has triggered. Also, they could probably do a lot with the fact that some rooms are powered up and some aren't (power grid), and through that (and it's structures, like an observatory) observe when aliens die.
I would be fine with a notification of when teammates died (but not by what) as humans have tracking items and aliens have the hive mind and death is a strong enough event for both to have a reasonable notification.
I do like the idea of having some sort of "vital signs" monitor for your team, or at least your squad, that show a marine's health active/flatlined. You could even add in their heart rate as a part of it, which would <i>pick up</i> if they were in battle (showing a heightened heart rate/adrenaline level), or just normal "beep" rates if they're just doing fine. Or flatline when they're dead. I think this could really work well for squads especially, depending on how much emphasis the devs put into those.
I do like the idea of having some sort of "vital signs" monitor for your team, or at least your squad, that show a marine's health active/flatlined. You could even add in their heart rate as a part of it, which would <i>pick up</i> if they were in battle (showing a heightened heart rate/adrenaline level), or just normal "beep" rates if they're just doing fine. Or flatline when they're dead. I think this could really work well for squads especially, depending on how much emphasis the devs put into those.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is quite a nice idea, as long as it's just an option.
This is one of the interesting points. I'd like to see people using the voice communication for useful stuff more often.
One part of me wants to have the game communication for strategy. "They've got fade" is information, but even an automated kill message can do that. I'd much rather use the voice communication for situational strategical messages like "The fade is low HP now. You've got time to build the pipe PG before it heals up. Take your time."
Then again another part of me wants to give people something to communicate even if they don't know the strategy inside out, because the present system doesn't seem to be working for the most of the players. Right now hardly anyone is communicating and the system isn't giving any smooth stepping stones to enter the communicative gaming.
<b>I do like the idea of having some sort of "vital signs" monitor for your team, or at least your squad, that show a marine's health active/flatlined. You could even add in their heart rate as a part of it, which would <i>pick up</i> if they were in battle (showing a heightened heart rate/adrenaline level), or just normal "beep" rates if they're just doing fine. Or flatline when they're dead. I think this could really work well for squads especially, depending on how much emphasis the devs put into those.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a really awesome idea, no matter which side of the conflict you are on, it would just make things so intense and otherworldly at the same time as being informative/
This is my point of being bad. If the team doesn't communicate, it will do poorly as you won't know of the dangers out there. The kill Signs shows the danger and makes communicating less important. ("Whats in the other room?!" *silences is all that answers as you see death signs for fades and Gorges* "Oh, Fades and Gorges, ok!") Yeah... Not very much communication nor team play... This way, taking out the how they died, forces people to work as a team somewhat. thats what this game is about is it not? team work?
You can force one guy in group to have sight, other the hearing and the third one to be the only one able to shoot and it increases the teamwork in a way, but it isn't good for the gameplay.
Let's see where we are right now: Most servers are 32 players or so and the HLvoice gets annoying and distractive once you've got 3-4 guys using it. My points:
- The voice communications are already stressed enough as soon as people use them even for a bit of extra communication. Text chat is ok I guess, but it's still not optimal to be typing anything while you're on the field. People also tend to ignore the text chat quite often.
- Forcing people to give mechanical reports like "I got killed by fade" leaves less space for communicating something smarter and less mechanical like "The fades are at pipe side, hurry up at west side while you're still safe."
True, true..
However, NS 1 didn't have dead bodies. I have a feeling NS2 will be the same way -- due to rating issues.
If we now speculatively remove upper right notifications on a kill, then you would logically use tab to see what your score is and confirm a kill.
And that's just annoying for the most part I can imagine, unless they removed the amount of kills you do on the scoreboard as well and give it some kind of ranking status instead where the one in top has the highest amount of kills but you don't know by how much. Possibly revealing it when the game ends. Or you just remove the score altogether and just show the players name in the list.
But somehow I don't think that will happen.
It's a cool thought though.
Marines can have a kill notification on their hud, through adding cash to their personal fund (ka-ching sound anyone?:)