Gun Scopes / Point of Veiw
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Join Date: 2009-11-23 Member: 69487Members
Join Date: 2009-11-23 Member: 69487Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Just a thought</div>I looked around a little bit but i'm not goin to spend 5 hours looking over the forums, but I had an idea as to implement the use of scopes and aiming point of veiw like Call of Duty games have, I think it makes things feel 100% more real. I mean come on there well trained Marines... not some hip firing no aiming illegitimate taliban rebals.
If this has been brought up then I apologize, if not tell me what you think. I know the game is far into production and it would probly take more time for the alpha to be relesed but I really think the game needs these features, and I am willing to wait for a later release if this is possable. Thanks!
If this has been brought up then I apologize, if not tell me what you think. I know the game is far into production and it would probly take more time for the alpha to be relesed but I really think the game needs these features, and I am willing to wait for a later release if this is possable. Thanks!
Comments
If this has been brought up then I apologize, if not tell me what you think. I know the game is far into production and it would probly take more time for the alpha to be relesed but I really think the game needs these features, and I am willing to wait for a later release if this is possable. Thanks!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a good idea, to me atleast, for a few different reason. The big one for me is, I want NS2 weapons to be like NS1, Where I could just download custom models for the weapons and such. If they added removable scopes, then there would be a limit on what models could fit what guns, cause some models would look stupid with a scope on it! But thats just my opinion. Also, i believe the main rifle, atleast for the first NS game, had a scope on it.
1. It is extremely cheap to implement, (did i mention it's cheap ?), to just have that aiming system which is used in counter strike and NS1.
2. Having a cross, or equivalent sight, drawn on the center of your monitor is not visually impressive... It LOOKS cheap (looks like ######... very very arcadish)... developers will look noobish and lazy... This sighting system is out-dated all the way back to rainbow six / rogue spear when games didn't even have onscreen guns!!! (and definitely older then that)... Probably was used in the first military flight simulators which makes it older then the first actual video games!
3. It won't look "gritty"... which i thought was a visual-design goal? Iron sights / aimpoints / holographic sights / lasers.. THAT is what i expected. (recalling way back when... the devs discussed attachments... grenade launcher attachments... aiming attachments... and this drawing of an assault rifle that could be customized with these attachments...).
4. NS1 was limited due to the engine... And yet people want NS2 to look just as limited... a down right carbon copy. If i remember correctly the NS1 lmg has a SCOPE... and the loading screen for NS1 featured a marine holding a pistol with a laser attachment... I think that permits us to justifiably have usable weapon attachments in the NS universe (they were there in concept-form from day 1) while also now having an engine that for the first time is capable of supporting them. That is how you claim your game has evolved... How to create an amazing sequel by implementing the dream features which were impossible in NS1. And where is my dropship + APC! Don't tell me we have to walk around like in NS1... gah i want HMG + jetpants / heavy from the start! This is WAR... not exploitative first contact!!!! :D
5. Spray and pray until your crosshair blooms to big.... Then wait for it to shrink back... Repeat as necessary. Do we still have sniper pistols in NS2? :P
2) Whether its "outdated" or not is up for debate. Games evolved in that direction, just like we still use keyboards and mouses. Or do you think everyone should have a gameglove or...something "high tech!!!!" Also what I'm getting from this is that you're saying the only good FPS games out are the ones that use iron-sights....Do you even play any other FPS games other than CoD? Is that the god of all games? I think you're in the minority. Theres plenty of major FPS games out (and still coming out) that use a traditional cross hair-targeting system.
3) Honestly I don't see how having a hightech helmet on which targets the aliens with a cross hair or tells you where your gun is aiming is bad visual (or immersive) design. Its not just in games. Quick example would be the world of Shadowrun and their "smartlinks" which are described as giving the user a crosshair depending on where their gun is pointed. In any event, I see this as fitting perfectly in with our game and "immersion"
4) You think NS didn't use ironsigns because of the HL1 engine? How many HL1 mods have you played? For example: Hostile Intent? Used iron sights. Plenty of HL1 mods had scopes usable as well, so that too obviously wasn't an issue of the "engine." I also can't quite understand if you're serious when you say that you want to start out with "end-game" equipment and the like, or if you're just being sarcastic for a reason which doesn't relate to your post. If so, then you lost me.
5) I don't understand this. Are you somehow trying to say that using crosshairs automatically makes things easier? Just because it doesn't slow gameplay down doesn't mean there isn't a high skill ceiling. Or maybe you just know some godly way of aiming that we don't?...The way you described doesn't seem to make any sense.
Obviously the game setting of NS is not the most realistic. And making a game uber realistic does not necessarily = good game.
Scopes would sooner be a disadvantage then helpful since Kharaa tend to be fast! and you as a trained marine have no time to use your well trained sniping skills.
Research-able upgrades:
Laser sights
Sheer beam of blue-ish awesomeness, shows you where your bullets will land more or less.
Pro : You have a awesome laser sight and you can see where your bullets will impact. Bullet spread is reduced
Con: Kharaa can see where you are aiming and may take the next turn to ambush you.
Grenade attachment
Once researched the marine can pick this up at the Armory granting him/her 2-5 grenades.
Pro: No more weapon switching, Launches a grenade that causes medium impact damage 25-45 and exploding 1 second after making impact on either a player, prop or surface
Con: Replaces hand grenades, Slower reloading time.
Shotgun Attachment
Once researched the marine can pick this up at the Armory granting him/her 25-36 12 gauge shotgun shells.
Pro: No more weapon switching, Can hit multiple targets.
Con: Shotgun attachment is medium ranged.
Bayonet Attachment
Once researched the marine can pick this up at the Armory granting him/her a nasty looking serrated blade on the end of the gun
Pro: Powerful slow close-combat stab ability 75-85 damage to finish off already wounded kharaa.
Con: Damage is high on the "lesser" species the "greater" species have too much vitality to start a man to kharaa cage fight.
The player can only have 1 upgrade as such attached to his weapon to his or her own choice so its either shotgun or grenade launcher or bayonet. Using this weapon system marines can customize their weapon to fit their own preferences. Although the machine-gun/shotgun combination sounds powerful i am certain their is a good way to balance these configurations.
The laser sight can be combined with advanced motion tracking by highlighting the target when aimed at. By outlining the enemy in a color that can easily be seen in the dark. this effect would only occur when actually aiming at the target if the marines looses LOS the target will remain painted for 1 or 2 seconds and will fade into darkness. turning it invisible once again.
For a shotgun a grenade and bayonet attachment would make sense aswel.
As for the grenade launcher (never liked it tbh) perhaps special grenades could be upgrades. Like incendiary white phosphor grenades or shrapnel.
These would be my suggestions. and i believe adding these possibilities would grant the player to choose between the options the commander has made available to them. The commander still has control but so does the player.
The crosshair only shows 2 Dimensions the X and the Y value of where you are aiming at. A laser sight would add the Third dimension of Depth Z. But i hear what you are saying :)
Their arms aint armor for nothing, its an automated aim support and the crosshair is a simple visualization.
I've seen a game presentation once where you could move the weapon indepently from the view, but our current controllers cant be used for that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If this has been brought up then I apologize, if not tell me what you think. I know the game is far into production and it would probly take more time for the alpha to be relesed but I really think the game needs these features, and I am willing to wait for a later release if this is possable. Thanks!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I too would like to see a mix and match system, like they used in Star Wars: Republic Commando -
Longer barrel - less spread, less firerate
tuning loading mechanics - more or less firerate, antiproportional spread
magazine size - more ammo, heigher weight (more sluggish movement, less runspeed, more stamina usage for running)
laser sights - removes crosshair, teammates and enemys alike see your point of aim
I would like to see a move from view models to actual ingame representation as well, there's no point in rendering another weapon when you have propper reload animations after all.
I hate pressing Mouse2 and shoot, and what's the point using Iron-sights in close quarter? I would understand if NS2 is set on large scale environment.
I hate pressing Mouse2 and shoot, and what's the point using Iron-sights in close quarter? I would understand if NS2 is set on large scale environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your reasons make sense in NS1. For NS2 the devs said they wanted to do away with winding halls and instead focus on large connected rooms. So less extremely close quarter hip-shooting situations is what i gather from this design decision.
Scopes, and other attachments, add an immersion factor to the game. They are also becoming very common now in modern games. A non-zooming reflex sight would be more interesting then the way NS1 did it. Since this is the future then it would be cool if marines had a scope that could go from reflex sight mode all the way up to magnified zoom mode...While also rewarding the user with better weapon accuracy then what is available with basic hip shooting.
I would suggest the way CRYSIS does the attachment system. It's simple... you have all the attachments and you just select what you want in game. This way if you just want to go hip shooting like rambo (i.e. the NS1 way) then you can do that. Otherwise if you care about using less ammunition while getting more kills, then you will learn to use the offered optics.
I'm pretty sure the taliban are classified as freedom fighters. you know since they're fighting a foreign occupational force and all..
Of course, I don't support recoil and spreadfire in NS, the way it is done in games like CS and hope that the spreadfire and recoil remain the same as in NS1. But that aiming down the sight gives a small boost to that.
Are you being facetious? They're not freedom fighters, they're terrorists under a terrorist regime.
<!--quoteo(post=1749036:date=Jan 24 2010, 11:50 PM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Jan 24 2010, 11:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1749036"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->While I personally don't see much use in scopes and aim down the sights, I don't think it would have any harm for the developers to add it in if they have the time. The thing about it is that nobody is forced to use it. So those that want to use it, for the cost of decreased mobility but increased accuracy, can just use it. And those that want the mobility, can dont aim down the sights.
Of course, I don't support recoil and spreadfire in NS, the way it is done in games like CS and hope that the spreadfire and recoil remain the same as in NS1. But that aiming down the sight gives a small boost to that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are aiming down the sight - the reticule. To include a silly feature that has no place in the game simply for minority audience who doesn't understand what NS is about is well, silly. As silly as so-called milsim games that include a reticule for those too lazy to sight-up.
I guess what I'm trying to say is...
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->This is a game where the primary alien class plays from a view INSIDE OF its own mouth, do you not realize how silly this entire argument is!?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
/endthread
That's as usefull as argueing why deep water is blue.
you DO realize what you're saying here right?
...........
BTW i'm liking the idea of a viewpoint from your eyes with a holographic hud, including body performance as health system/heart rate as a way of seeing if your detectable by scent of fear or not etc but with a feel that its actually what the marines seeing if any of yous get what i mean considering they have helmets with some sort of interface before the marines eyes that you see in concept art
...........
Im so sick of everyone reffering to call of duty and modern warfare 1 and 2 or the entire series in fact.....
MODERN. WARFARE. last i heard modern warfare didnt consist of aliens ambushing you from ceilings.
ig. OFP or ARMA2 would suck w/o ironsights
NS doesnt rly need it it would slow down the gameplay.
tho could be a nice option but i would rather see "bash" as Attack2 than zoom in ;)
maybe add one or 2 wepons that can "zoom" (the way you can zoom in l4d2 with few guns no iron sights nothing just changing fov i assume not sure about that )
Well they might be asses, and be even worse about what they do.. but, at least according to international law, as soon as they started fighting american occupational troops in their own country they *poof* became freedom fighters and their cause just. Good job!
again I can't tell if you're being facetious...
Firstly, they are not fighting for freedom, secondly there is no international law stating what you said, and thirdly even if there were it doesn't "poof" make it just.
freedom fighters dont oppress their own people, beat their women, and kill their own countrymen in the crossfire. they arent fighting for the freedom of their people, they're fighting so they can stay in charge and continue their oppressive regime.
we cannot act with success, nor suffer with honour, calls upon us to remonstrate in the strongest and loudest language of truth, to rescue the ear of Majesty from the delusions
which surround it. You cannot, I venture to say, you
CANNOT conquer America.
" You ask, what is your present situation there? We do not know the worst; but we know that in three campaigns we have done nothing and suffered much. You may swell every expense, and strain every effort, still more extravagantly; accumulate every assistance you can beg or borrow; traffic and barter with every pitiful German Prince, that sells and sends his
subjects to the shambles of a foreign country: your efforts
are forever vain and impotent-doubly so from this mercenary
aid on which you rely; for it irritates to an incurable resentment the minds of your enemies, to overrun them with the sordid sons of rapine and of plunder, devoting them and their possessions to the rapacity of hireling cruelty! If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms! -
Never! Never! Never! "<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is your entire argument, and the argument of every single other person asking for iron sights. You want MW2 iron sights? Go play MW2. You want fast, asymmetrical gameplay involving you to keep running and jumping to kill aliens trying to rip you in two? Play NS/NS2.
I get it. You like MW2. You see the positives in its gameplay and think that they could apply to and help NS2. The simple fact of the matter is: you're wrong. Completely wrong. The action that happens in MW2 and NS (presumably NS2 as well) is so incredibly different that it simply won't work.
Just let the issue drop.
Also,
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b>The Natural Selection 2 forums are not the place to talk about war politics.</b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
I'm saying that NS ###### 2 will look outdated, and be disappointing in this area to those that expect said features, if it doesn't have said features.
You're also saying that since a lot of games have those features, NS2 should be less unique, and have said features.
Refusing to copy (in my opinion CRAPPY) features doesn't make a game dated at all. The Half-Life series has no iron sights, and it's considered by many to still be the best FPS series ever made. It also doesn't have that retarded regenerating health that a lot of shooters seem to think is a good idea, for some reason. NS2 with that sort of wait-five-seconds-and-you're-fine regen system would probably be one of the worst multiplayer games out there.
<a href='index.php?showtopic=106580'>Marines Weapons in NS2: recoil and ironsights</a>
<a href='index.php?showtopic=106699'>Don't call smgs "lmgs" in ns2</a>
There were others, these were just memorable. Feel free to dig for yourself if you are interested.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=NS2 Mapping Guidelines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2 Mapping Guidelines)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS2 layouts will typically have 6-10 rooms (bases plus smaller rooms for some resource points) and are simpler than the sprawling, nondescript corridors found in Natural Selection 1 maps. Rooms, resource points and other high-conflict areas should be relatively simple geometrywise to lower confusion and aim interference. They should also be a little bigger than in NS1 for less chaos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I pulled this from the Mapping Guidelines. In my humble opinion, rooms being 'a little bigger' does not warrant any zoomed aim-mode. I mean, how large would the dres in tanith have to be before you felt comfortable scoping in on any of it's entrances? And I assure you, there will be plenty of close, twisty corridors in Natural Selection 2. After all, 6-10 rooms need to be connected without direct line of sight.
In short, I see no place in the Natural Selection universe for iron sights, scopes or zoomed guns. Attempting to carve out a niche for them might irreversibly wreck the fast paced combat we know and love.