AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
it's probably written in a FAQ, but no. But don't worry, NS2 is easely modable, and creating a combat mod will probably be one of the easier mods to create, so expect it quite soon (probably right after a "classic ns" mod ;) )
As he said, it will not be released with the game when it comes out. The engine is very modable so I am sure we will see it soon after release from some fans though :)
Suddenly, I'm very confused. I'm replying before actually reading the FAQ, though:
Is "combat" referring to some kind of unique mechanic, mode, or other feature in NS2? Because, unless I'm mistaken, the whole point of the game is multiplayer aliens vs. 'rines combat.
<!--quoteo(post=1747433:date=Jan 15 2010, 11:13 AM:name=Kompatriot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kompatriot @ Jan 15 2010, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Suddenly, I'm very confused. I'm replying before actually reading the FAQ, though:
Is "combat" referring to some kind of unique mechanic, mode, or other feature in NS2? Because, unless I'm mistaken, the whole point of the game is multiplayer aliens vs. 'rines combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a more dumbed down game-mode where you don't have a commander or structures to build, and respawn back to action quickly. Objective of the game is to level up and spend it on skills that improves you and final goal is to destroy the enemy base (hive or command center).
<!--quoteo(post=1747415:date=Jan 15 2010, 07:32 AM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 15 2010, 07:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747415"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will combat be a part of Ns2?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Combat-only mode was great. Fast paced action that was much better than the original mode for pub players like me, i.e. not in a clan/team. I don't want to have to rely on a good commander being in control to enjoy playing as marines, and similarly for aliens, teamwork on public servers is more difficult with the original mode, which often resulted in alot of whining ("zomfg hive 2 everyone ffs"), and I personally prefer the individual rewarding aspect you get with CO mode (the more you kill, the quicker you level, so it's highly rewarding as a solo player).
I also think it's a very good mode for new players to the game to learn the ropes in terms of how to play as marines or aliens. There's no need to worry about hives or building resource centres or the general RTS nature of the original mode. Here, it's just kill the opposition, and it also helps that many of the maps are alot smaller in Combat Only, so you don't have a large areas with nothing happening.
Yeah, many prefer the original mode for some reason, but why not have both? Clearly CO was very popular given how many dedicated and full servers there were for it.
I really hope the NS team release CO as part of the gold version. I'm sure many of us who pre-ordered were fans of this mode, I know I certainly am, so yeah, it'll be hugely disappointing for me if it doesn't come out.
<!--quoteo(post=1747473:date=Jan 15 2010, 03:23 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 15 2010, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just want to see super gorge sledding modded in :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm so working with that team if that happens :D
<!--quoteo(post=1747659:date=Jan 17 2010, 06:43 AM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Jan 17 2010, 06:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ah yes, combat, that which killed NS1. Awesome<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and I'm so hacking that team so they don't release any combat mod ! D:
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?
<!--quoteo(post=1752025:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:28 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752025"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do you know what popularity <u>Really</u> means?
Mcdonalds is popular. Lady Gaga is popular. Nascar is popular.
<!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Combat-only mode was great. Fast paced action that was much better than the original mode for pub players like me, i.e. not in a clan/team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never been in a clan/team and don't feel that combat was better than original NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think it's a very good mode for new players to the game to learn the ropes in terms of how to play as marines or aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no need to worry about hives or building resource centres or the general RTS nature of the original mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So it's good for teaching everything apart from all the things they need to know to play NS mode? Agreed.
<!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, many prefer the original mode for some reason, but why not have both? Clearly CO was very popular given how many dedicated and full servers there were for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because there will be no NS servers, like now. Try finding one without bots.
<!--quoteo(post=1752025:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:28 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752025"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is with the hate of Combat Only mode?
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you play since when?
Before they released Combat Mode, there wasn't a really big playerbase existing (compared to the earlier years). When they threw in combat mode, many new players got attracted but it turned out pretty bad for the game in my opinion:
As the mode implies faster, more casual deathmatch-like style near 0 tactics, it became popular to newer players, but most people didn't seem to know that there's actually the main game with ns_maps and kept playing on their co servers with 1000 xmenu levels and whatnot. I think the intention was to have kind of a practice mode or warm up mode. Maybe for them it was too hard to learn or get into, maybe the didn't give a * to learn the game. Normally i wouldn't care alot but you do notice it having a rather small playerbase. Just take a look at the serverbrowser now.
So point is instead of reducing the learning curve, they released a dumbed-down natural selection for the masses that is far away from the main game (imo)
So, as someone who plays NS a bit differently from most of the people on this forum (as far as I can tell), I would like to submit some ideas on combat mode in a different setting.
I usually play with a bunch of people I know, mostly in the same computer lab. This has some obvious advantages: it's like a clan in that we get to know each other, but very casual, we're free to develop our own play styles and strategies, we can yell at each other across the room, etc. However, one of the disadvantages is it's *really* hard to get enough people. 6v6 is a *large* game for us. We like to play NS when we can, but sometimes we just don't have enough people. 2v2 or 2v3 is playable in combat. It is *not* playable in NS.
Additionally, it makes a nice game to be playing as people trickle in at the beginning of the session. Games go quickly, and nobody really cares too much about their outcome, so people don't need to worry about throwing off balance if they come in in the middle of the game.
I understand the qualms about there being very few public NS servers, but as someone who plays in small groups of people I know, combat is almost necessary.
Combat was never necessary. If people prefer combat over "classic" NS, I can't blame them. But this community should have never accepted that playerbase or that gameplay mode. We're all worse off for it and the declining knowledge of how to play "classic" NS has hurt us all.
If deathmatch is what you want there are plenty of <i>other</i> options.
Combat was awesome on big pub servers before xmenu turned up. At least for anyone who was really good at the game, it was super easy to go 50-2 or whatever and get a big ego boost and also get some damn good practice in.
It's obviously no replacement for ns_ but since co_ came out the level of both marine play and alien play shot up so it did have some good impact on competitive ns_ mode. In leagues shotguns became approx twice as good and fades/lerks were equally improved. If you don't believe me check out the RaB/TormenT nostalgia video thats floating around made by zaiko. The level of play in it is... amusing? Although shotguns improving could also have been with me releasing the shotgun spread xhair and the first knifepack at around 3.0b5.
Anyway, the I guess what I'm trying to say is that the people who enjoy co_ also seem to enjoy terrible add-ons such as xmenu and buildmenu and it was only ever good for practicing by using the hordes of bad players as a better version of playing on a listen server with 30 skulk bots set to run at you.
<!--quoteo(post=1752046:date=Feb 9 2010, 10:56 AM:name=Leon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leon @ Feb 9 2010, 10:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752046"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But this community should have never accepted that playerbase or that gameplay mode. We're all worse off for it and the declining knowledge of how to play "classic" NS has hurt us all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This, absolutely this.
And then newcomers why we get these crazy notions that NS might get dumbed-down - that's because it did and we were there to see it first hand. NEVAR 4GET
Have to throw in my opinion here about CO shouldn't be and that there were better alternatives out there. I just have to say "oh really?", the mod have a pretty exciting setting, it was practically free since it was a mod to HL and where the players could level (not too sure I saw too many games that had that where it worked so well) and vastly different gameplay from the alien to the marine side. NS mode is of course better, but CO did have its charm and that's why it attracted people. Anyway, just my two cents, I'm very happy with accepting that CO shouldn't be this time around but its just a bit silly all this talk that CO was an utter waste. It became an utter waste when the mods to it came around however.
Irrelevant. People are going to make it, servers are going to run it and people are going to play it. Hopefully vanilla mode becomes the most popular game type after release.
<!--quoteo(post=1752027:date=Feb 9 2010, 02:32 PM:name=Stardog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stardog @ Feb 9 2010, 02:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752027"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So it's good for teaching everything apart from all the things they need to know to play NS mode? Agreed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Erm, no, it's good for learning the weapons/attacks, how to play as aliens, etc. The basic combat mechanisms and the abilities of e.g. the aliens. There's nothing difficult to understand, just that you obviously disliked CO mode so will twist everything that was positive about it.
Beyond that, the only difference between CO and classic mode is the RTS commander and the hive system. So yes, CO was a good way to introduce new players to the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1752107:date=Feb 9 2010, 03:27 PM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752107"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Beyond that, the only difference between CO and classic mode is the RTS commander and the hive system.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> But you add those two as if they're tiny little things. Learning the weapons is miniscule compared to how to use your res properly to build res towers, how to build things as gorge, commander mode, hive system, etc.
Co is useless at getting new players into NS. They end up not having a clue and just stick to Co.
And no sense of "classic" NS strategy. You won't be able to provide meaningful information to your team if all you've ever done is deathmatch with aliens. Those that play combat regularly have little knowledge on the goings and doings of a normal round of NS. Then we all suffer for it in-game.
<!--quoteo(post=1752111:date=Feb 9 2010, 08:38 PM:name=Stardog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Stardog @ Feb 9 2010, 08:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But you add those two as if they're tiny little things. Learning the weapons is miniscule compared to how to use your res properly to build res towers, how to build things as gorge, commander mode, hive system, etc.
Co is useless at getting new players into NS. They end up not having a clue and just stick to Co.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can only disagree with you here. My opinion is that you're exaggerating the RTS element of NS' classic mode in order to avoid conceding anything positive to CO mode.
What I'm referring to is basic gameplay for either marines or aliens. CO is alot quicker for a new user to learn how to actually play as an alien than classic mode, which in itself can be a long, drawn out game depending on the time limit. So the player can actually practice playing as a fade for example pretty quickly, and using the various abilities, instead of having to wait till the alien side have enough hives/res/points/etc in classic mode to then play as a fade. And the player can do this without having to worry about the RTS side of the game, which although nothing difficult, just adds a further complication.
So from that perspective, I can't see how anyone can disagree with the statement that CO is good for learning how to actually play the individual classes themselves.
Yes, beyond that, other skills, techniques, strategies would need to be picked up for classic RTS mode, but that's not all that difficult, and furthermore, imo if someone is only interested in fast paced action and isn't bothered with NS mode after playing CO mode, then they're not likely to bother playing NS classic mode in the first place.
I get the impression in this thread that CO mode is being blamed for NS 1 dying, as though CO "stole" a new generation of gamers away from the classic mode, new players who then got bored of CO itself and left NS altogether or went onto classic mode servers and ruined games before then leaving, which resulted in NS 1 being in the state it is at present (i.e. virtually dead) and classic mode practically dying some while before that.
Having played NS since the first release on and off, and only coming back to it for some time due to the CO mode, my opinion (and I'm stating the obvious here) is that NS was dying anyway, like every other HL1 mod (including the wonderful CS). The graphics had just become far too outdated, new games have been out for some time, consoles had become alot better, so on and so forth, so NS 1 being full of empty servers was always inevitable. CO breathed fresh life into NS 1 for a while, and it took over the classic mode because it added a new twist to the gameplay more suited for public servers, but then that death continued, till we have what we have now, only a few servers sometimes populated with a decent number of players.
So I think alot of what has been written about CO in this thread comes from a warped persective whereby CO itself is some sort of scapegoat for NS simply reaching the end of it's shelf life. There are also other factors not being considered, such as new gamers from other countries joining in on the action when previously braodband wasn't widely available there (or online gaming wasn't very popular), or new gamers from countries where the average PC gamer has considerably lower specs than some of the wealthier nations (and therefore entering the HL1 mod scene pretty late). Yes, some noobs with no understanding of the RTS mode came onto classic mode servers, but how does one go about establishing a link between that and the popular CO and then claim these noobs are due to CO itself? It's not possible to do so with absolute certainty imo, and those who link the two are probably doing so because they prefer one mode over the other. Maybe I'm wrong here and it's not bias affecting perspective here, but from where I'm sitting, it looks to me like it is exactly that.
<!--quoteo(post=1752135:date=Feb 9 2010, 05:45 PM:name=Leon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Leon @ Feb 9 2010, 05:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752135"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And no sense of "classic" NS strategy. You won't be able to provide meaningful information to your team if all you've ever done is deathmatch with aliens. Those that play combat regularly have little knowledge on the goings and doings of a normal round of NS. Then we all suffer for it in-game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true. This is also true of someone joining a classic game for the first time *without* having had any combat experience. As a commander, I would much rather my marine who is playing NS classic for the first time have fiddled around in combat for a round or two beforehand. I can then generally trust that player to at least take out a single non-ambushing skulk. I can't do the same with a player who has never touched NS in any form before.
I'm going to reiterate that combat is actually a really nice secondary mode to have when playing in-person.
Also, if it is in fact the case that there are people who play combat and are *unaware* of classic, I think this is unfortunate. In this case it's probably a good thing that combat won't be part of the official game, so that people will almost certainly be aware of the classic mode. However, I certainly would not want to hinder a combat mod being made.
<!--quoteo(post=1752025:date=Feb 9 2010, 06:28 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 06:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752025"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What is with the hate of Combat Only mode?
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was always under the impression that combat was an accessory mode to the classic game. Its purpose was to introduce and teach players about the game in setting that wouldn't be detrimental to a team. The problem was that this accessory mode didn't teach players about the important aspects of the original game, which, among other things, were maps and strategy to those maps, and it cannibalized the original game's population. Unless you believe that the developers wanted to steer Natural Selection 1 away from real-time strategy and strategy in general, combat was probably a mistake, albeit a fun one for many people apparently.
there is no ###### need for that ######y combat anymore. what uwe tries with NS2 is to merge combat with classic ns by giving anyone the ability to buy his own weapons in the first place so you dont have to cry for your stoopeed shirtgun anymore, also you get your own money pool to pay for your stuff. now go and play "combat" while you are actualy in a NS game and be usefull for the team and the greater goal of awesome NS gameplay for the first time in your life
Why even play NS if you only like combat mode? Seems retarded. So many other FPS games have a level up system and they offer far more depth than combat did.
Also if you think you need to be in a clan to enjoy vanilla NS than you are obviously playing on the wrong servers or you are terrible and probably shouldn't buy NS2 in case I have to play on the same server and team as you.
Anyway it doesn't matter because the devs have stated many times they aren't releasing a combat mode. Hopefully the community does everyone a favour and doesn't create a combat style mod. I'd like to see some CREATIVE mod ideas.
Comments
But don't worry, NS2 is easely modable, and creating a combat mod will probably be one of the easier mods to create, so expect it quite soon (probably right after a "classic ns" mod ;) )
Is "combat" referring to some kind of unique mechanic, mode, or other feature in NS2? Because, unless I'm mistaken, the whole point of the game is multiplayer aliens vs. 'rines combat.
Is "combat" referring to some kind of unique mechanic, mode, or other feature in NS2? Because, unless I'm mistaken, the whole point of the game is multiplayer aliens vs. 'rines combat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a more dumbed down game-mode where you don't have a commander or structures to build, and respawn back to action quickly.
Objective of the game is to level up and spend it on skills that improves you and final goal is to destroy the enemy base (hive or command center).
No. Thank god.
Combat-only mode was great. Fast paced action that was much better than the original mode for pub players like me, i.e. not in a clan/team. I don't want to have to rely on a good commander being in control to enjoy playing as marines, and similarly for aliens, teamwork on public servers is more difficult with the original mode, which often resulted in alot of whining ("zomfg hive 2 everyone ffs"), and I personally prefer the individual rewarding aspect you get with CO mode (the more you kill, the quicker you level, so it's highly rewarding as a solo player).
I also think it's a very good mode for new players to the game to learn the ropes in terms of how to play as marines or aliens. There's no need to worry about hives or building resource centres or the general RTS nature of the original mode. Here, it's just kill the opposition, and it also helps that many of the maps are alot smaller in Combat Only, so you don't have a large areas with nothing happening.
Yeah, many prefer the original mode for some reason, but why not have both? Clearly CO was very popular given how many dedicated and full servers there were for it.
I really hope the NS team release CO as part of the gold version. I'm sure many of us who pre-ordered were fans of this mode, I know I certainly am, so yeah, it'll be hugely disappointing for me if it doesn't come out.
I'm so working with that team if that happens :D
<!--quoteo(post=1747659:date=Jan 17 2010, 06:43 AM:name=PSA)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PSA @ Jan 17 2010, 06:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ah yes, combat, that which killed NS1. Awesome<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and I'm so hacking that team so they don't release any combat mod ! D:
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?
Do you know what popularity <u>Really</u> means?
Mcdonalds is popular. Lady Gaga is popular. Nascar is popular.
0_o
I've never been in a clan/team and don't feel that combat was better than original NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I also think it's a very good mode for new players to the game to learn the ropes in terms of how to play as marines or aliens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's no need to worry about hives or building resource centres or the general RTS nature of the original mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it's good for teaching everything apart from all the things they need to know to play NS mode? Agreed.
<!--quoteo(post=1752022:date=Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 9 2010, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, many prefer the original mode for some reason, but why not have both? Clearly CO was very popular given how many dedicated and full servers there were for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because there will be no NS servers, like now. Try finding one without bots.
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And you play since when?
Before they released Combat Mode, there wasn't a really big playerbase existing (compared to the earlier years). When they threw in combat mode, many new players got attracted but it turned out pretty bad for the game in my opinion:
As the mode implies faster, more casual deathmatch-like style near 0 tactics, it became popular to newer players, but most people didn't seem to know that there's actually the main game with ns_maps and kept playing on their co servers with 1000 xmenu levels and whatnot. I think the intention was to have kind of a practice mode or warm up mode. Maybe for them it was too hard to learn or get into, maybe the didn't give a * to learn the game. Normally i wouldn't care alot but you do notice it having a rather small playerbase. Just take a look at the serverbrowser now.
So point is instead of reducing the learning curve, they released a dumbed-down natural selection for the masses that is far away from the main game (imo)
And no it wasn't great.
Imagine a combat fade on a public ns server....
I usually play with a bunch of people I know, mostly in the same computer lab. This has some obvious advantages: it's like a clan in that we get to know each other, but very casual, we're free to develop our own play styles and strategies, we can yell at each other across the room, etc. However, one of the disadvantages is it's *really* hard to get enough people. 6v6 is a *large* game for us. We like to play NS when we can, but sometimes we just don't have enough people. 2v2 or 2v3 is playable in combat. It is *not* playable in NS.
Additionally, it makes a nice game to be playing as people trickle in at the beginning of the session. Games go quickly, and nobody really cares too much about their outcome, so people don't need to worry about throwing off balance if they come in in the middle of the game.
I understand the qualms about there being very few public NS servers, but as someone who plays in small groups of people I know, combat is almost necessary.
If deathmatch is what you want there are plenty of <i>other</i> options.
It's obviously no replacement for ns_ but since co_ came out the level of both marine play and alien play shot up so it did have some good impact on competitive ns_ mode. In leagues shotguns became approx twice as good and fades/lerks were equally improved. If you don't believe me check out the RaB/TormenT nostalgia video thats floating around made by zaiko. The level of play in it is... amusing? Although shotguns improving could also have been with me releasing the shotgun spread xhair and the first knifepack at around 3.0b5.
Anyway, the I guess what I'm trying to say is that the people who enjoy co_ also seem to enjoy terrible add-ons such as xmenu and buildmenu and it was only ever good for practicing by using the hordes of bad players as a better version of playing on a listen server with 30 skulk bots set to run at you.
I am glad it won't be in NS2 officially.
This, absolutely this.
And then newcomers why we get these crazy notions that NS might get dumbed-down - that's because it did and we were there to see it first hand. NEVAR 4GET
I just have to say "oh really?", the mod have a pretty exciting setting, it was practically free since it was a mod to HL and where the players could level (not too sure I saw too many games that had that where it worked so well) and vastly different gameplay from the alien to the marine side. NS mode is of course better, but CO did have its charm and that's why it attracted people.
Anyway, just my two cents, I'm very happy with accepting that CO shouldn't be this time around but its just a bit silly all this talk that CO was an utter waste.
It became an utter waste when the mods to it came around however.
Nothing was better then trudging through impossible scenarios and still being capable of winning.
Endless amount of strategies which boiled down to how well your team worked together.
Combat for most players is the ###### child of natural-selection.
It was nothing like what was mentioned above.
That guy spamming for shotguns / weapons in marine start is basically how combat was created.
Which sucks because if a new player downloaded the mod and they went to combat first.
They didn't get that real amazing natural-selection experience.
Walking down some dark hallway having no clue what might be on the other end.
It was the completely random game-play which drove ns to become so widely popular.
No map played out the same way twice which was very unique especially for a fps type of game.
Erm, no, it's good for learning the weapons/attacks, how to play as aliens, etc. The basic combat mechanisms and the abilities of e.g. the aliens. There's nothing difficult to understand, just that you obviously disliked CO mode so will twist everything that was positive about it.
Beyond that, the only difference between CO and classic mode is the RTS commander and the hive system. So yes, CO was a good way to introduce new players to the game.
But you add those two as if they're tiny little things. Learning the weapons is miniscule compared to how to use your res properly to build res towers, how to build things as gorge, commander mode, hive system, etc.
Co is useless at getting new players into NS. They end up not having a clue and just stick to Co.
Co is useless at getting new players into NS. They end up not having a clue and just stick to Co.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can only disagree with you here. My opinion is that you're exaggerating the RTS element of NS' classic mode in order to avoid conceding anything positive to CO mode.
What I'm referring to is basic gameplay for either marines or aliens. CO is alot quicker for a new user to learn how to actually play as an alien than classic mode, which in itself can be a long, drawn out game depending on the time limit. So the player can actually practice playing as a fade for example pretty quickly, and using the various abilities, instead of having to wait till the alien side have enough hives/res/points/etc in classic mode to then play as a fade. And the player can do this without having to worry about the RTS side of the game, which although nothing difficult, just adds a further complication.
So from that perspective, I can't see how anyone can disagree with the statement that CO is good for learning how to actually play the individual classes themselves.
Yes, beyond that, other skills, techniques, strategies would need to be picked up for classic RTS mode, but that's not all that difficult, and furthermore, imo if someone is only interested in fast paced action and isn't bothered with NS mode after playing CO mode, then they're not likely to bother playing NS classic mode in the first place.
Having played NS since the first release on and off, and only coming back to it for some time due to the CO mode, my opinion (and I'm stating the obvious here) is that NS was dying anyway, like every other HL1 mod (including the wonderful CS). The graphics had just become far too outdated, new games have been out for some time, consoles had become alot better, so on and so forth, so NS 1 being full of empty servers was always inevitable. CO breathed fresh life into NS 1 for a while, and it took over the classic mode because it added a new twist to the gameplay more suited for public servers, but then that death continued, till we have what we have now, only a few servers sometimes populated with a decent number of players.
So I think alot of what has been written about CO in this thread comes from a warped persective whereby CO itself is some sort of scapegoat for NS simply reaching the end of it's shelf life. There are also other factors not being considered, such as new gamers from other countries joining in on the action when previously braodband wasn't widely available there (or online gaming wasn't very popular), or new gamers from countries where the average PC gamer has considerably lower specs than some of the wealthier nations (and therefore entering the HL1 mod scene pretty late). Yes, some noobs with no understanding of the RTS mode came onto classic mode servers, but how does one go about establishing a link between that and the popular CO and then claim these noobs are due to CO itself? It's not possible to do so with absolute certainty imo, and those who link the two are probably doing so because they prefer one mode over the other. Maybe I'm wrong here and it's not bias affecting perspective here, but from where I'm sitting, it looks to me like it is exactly that.
This is true. This is also true of someone joining a classic game for the first time *without* having had any combat experience. As a commander, I would much rather my marine who is playing NS classic for the first time have fiddled around in combat for a round or two beforehand. I can then generally trust that player to at least take out a single non-ambushing skulk. I can't do the same with a player who has never touched NS in any form before.
I'm going to reiterate that combat is actually a really nice secondary mode to have when playing in-person.
Also, if it is in fact the case that there are people who play combat and are *unaware* of classic, I think this is unfortunate. In this case it's probably a good thing that combat won't be part of the official game, so that people will almost certainly be aware of the classic mode. However, I certainly would not want to hinder a combat mod being made.
It was great, and if you didn't like it, then you still have your original mode to play.
I get the impression that those who prefer the classic mode and dislike CO know that CO is popular, and therefore don't want it to be made so that everyone who gets the game is forced to play the original version. Otherwise, why would it bother you if this mode existed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was always under the impression that combat was an accessory mode to the classic game. Its purpose was to introduce and teach players about the game in setting that wouldn't be detrimental to a team. The problem was that this accessory mode didn't teach players about the important aspects of the original game, which, among other things, were maps and strategy to those maps, and it cannibalized the original game's population. Unless you believe that the developers wanted to steer Natural Selection 1 away from real-time strategy and strategy in general, combat was probably a mistake, albeit a fun one for many people apparently.
Then again, I could be totally off base.
Also if you think you need to be in a clan to enjoy vanilla NS than you are obviously playing on the wrong servers or you are terrible and probably shouldn't buy NS2 in case I have to play on the same server and team as you.
Anyway it doesn't matter because the devs have stated many times they aren't releasing a combat mode. Hopefully the community does everyone a favour and doesn't create a combat style mod. I'd like to see some CREATIVE mod ideas.