LOD models and textures
Biglines
Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24094Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-12-07 Member: 24094Members, Constellation
As I was looking into modelling and watching some models in the different threads, will there be support for a system such as is used in source for Level of Detail models? basically making low poly versions for further away? (I'm asking because I see a lot of very high-poly props coming up, and while up close that looks great, it's a thorough performance killer further away (in room for example, on the opposite wall you wouldn't need to have a dial that's actually a 3d dial, a normal map would be more than enough, while up close it would add lot's of detail)
I tried searching for another thread or topic, but couldn't find anything
I tried searching for another thread or topic, but couldn't find anything
Comments
But, yeah, any word on that?
the artwork/models needs to be made with tessellation in mind or it wont look good, and in this case i think this is just goign to be a DX9.c game.
ATI started supporting tessellation with its 8500 called truform, but it didnt take off so they took it out of hardware. The HD Series brought back the tessellator which again can't be used because it isnt up to DX11 spec and it requires a little extra coding to get it working. Xbox360 also has this tessellator.
Yes, I think you're right.
<!--quoteo(post=1750140:date=Feb 1 2010, 06:00 PM:name=Hippo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hippo @ Feb 1 2010, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the artwork/models needs to be made with tessellation in mind or it wont look good, and in this case i think this is just goign to be a DX9.c game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I mean reverse tessellation: decreasing polygon content of the mesh based on distance. It's a pretty long shot.
<!--quoteo(post=1750140:date=Feb 1 2010, 06:00 PM:name=Hippo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hippo @ Feb 1 2010, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ATI started supporting tessellation with its 8500 called truform, but it didnt take off so they took it out of hardware. The HD Series brought back the tessellator which again can't be used because it isnt up to DX11 spec and it requires a little extra coding to get it working. Xbox360 also has this tessellator.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's pretty interesting. The heck is up with technology anymore... I guess I have to agree with Wolfire here, the closed industry standards are dragging us down: OpenGL has no problem with stuff like this.
LOD won't matter for most of the props, the geometry is relatively low and the nature of the game will not require large quantities at large distances. They won't be drawn at a distance, they won't be drawn at all!
I mean reverse tessellation: decreasing polygon content of the mesh based on distance. It's a pretty long shot.
That's pretty interesting. The heck is up with technology anymore... I guess I have to agree with Wolfire here, the closed industry standards are dragging us down: OpenGL has no problem with stuff like this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you should read the intelligent replies at the wolfire post, openGL had a good idea back when it was properly supported, but atm it's in such a state that only die-hard open developers prefer it (the wolfire post even quoted very old quotes from people who were then preferring openGL, but have later stepped on board with Direct X, it's all in the comments sections), I'm just referring to that thread, don't make this thread into a OpenGL vs DirectX discussion
as for no long distances, it's mostly whether it will be supported or not, because I can imagine a wide variety of mods/maps where long draw distances become a reality
That's weasel wording, isn't it?
My example was specific to hardware tessellation: DX users have to wait for a new API and hardware available exclusive on a specific new OS, while OpenGL crowd could have had it for free any time in the last six years. I wouldn't pretend to know what's better from the programmer's point of view, but this glaring point makes the impact of standard monopolization on the industry rather self-evident, just as the logic of the argument would tell us.
<!--quoteo(post=1750175:date=Feb 1 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Biglines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Biglines @ Feb 1 2010, 11:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750175"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as for no long distances, it's mostly whether it will be supported or not, because I can imagine a wide variety of mods/maps where long draw distances become a reality<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lack of support would be as unfortunate as it would be understandable. I guess I'll leave a post in the Engine Questions on this.
not really, meant the non-flame posts in that article's comments, had no bearing whatsoever on either side of the argument, from for example the sources they quote (who say they don't agree with what's quoted from them any more)
I really shouldn't do this, but as far as I can tell, yes openGL opens up hardware for things like tesselation, but they don't work on the majority of the cards anyway. And while directX isn't open, it is the standard atm, they get manufacturers to include certain things, or as soon as the majority of cards use it, they add the standard to directX
I'm all for open development if it means better software, but it seems openGL just is too watered down, old ways of doing things are not removed so it becomes easy to write old code, things like that
so even if openGL was used, with tesselation, only a few card could use it, meaning 99% of ns2 gamers would be screwed with bad performance?
I like being able to buy a direct X 11 compatible card, and knowing it will run all the current games technologies
Not intentional then. I don't think I have the capacity to explain how it's weasel-y right now, so... Nevermind.
<!--quoteo(post=1750238:date=Feb 2 2010, 09:35 AM:name=Biglines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Biglines @ Feb 2 2010, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really shouldn't do this, but as far as I can tell, yes openGL opens up hardware for things like tesselation, but they don't work on the majority of the cards anyway. And while directX isn't open, it is the standard atm, they get manufacturers to include certain things, or as soon as the majority of cards use it, they add the standard to directX<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's kinda the point both I and Wolfire were making: less so for use of OGL and more so for not sticking with closed standards which lock both you and consumer out of doing things the better way. DirectX as it is exists for no other reason than to spit in the face of non-Microsoft platforms, perpetuating their monopoly on the electronics market, and we know that always ends well...
It's kind of a shame, too, considering CUDA/Multicore design now open up the cards to be used to OGL's best strengths: custom programmable features of any kind.
<!--quoteo(post=1750238:date=Feb 2 2010, 09:35 AM:name=Biglines)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Biglines @ Feb 2 2010, 09:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1750238"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so even if openGL was used, with tesselation, only a few card could use it, meaning 99% of ns2 gamers would be screwed with bad performance?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't hear any complaints from Overgrowth alpha so far. And, frankly, it both looks and runs unbelievably great compared to any other game that dwells on my HDD.