<!--quoteo(post=1753109:date=Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM:name=Farren)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Farren @ Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say that I am hating the complete removal of water from NS2 (release). I understand that it takes alot of work to code it in, and that maps can be made without the use of water elements (the underwater passageways in bast were horribly realized... too long without air, too linear for aliens, too murky for marines....).
What I was hoping to include water as is a visual cueue. Small puddles on the ground, dripping water, heck even a fullblown waterfall seen in the distance through some kind of viewport would give a great impression of dampness and a quick and easy change of environment. Just look at how differently a room can look with the addition of rock style props. And how will we be having the supposed lava flows that have been mentioned before, yet there is no time to develop the same with water?
I'm not saying we need water effects or swim physics (ok maybe a few ripples for puddles), but it's really a shame that there will not be any water at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Water can be easily faked in a map with the use of models and animated textures, I suspect UWE is talking about being able to swim in water, having reacting pools of water, which is a lot different. Take Bioshock for example, most of the water in that game was a texture and/or model, the pools of water things floated in, reacted with, you swam in is the kinda water the NS2 devs seem to be talking about. Look at the refinery concept art and those pools of lava, easily done with an animated texture, to add effect, no need to code being able to swim in lava lol.
<!--quoteo(post=1753056:date=Feb 14 2010, 07:18 AM:name=kyliegirl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kyliegirl @ Feb 14 2010, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753056"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cory please make a website of your work! Gosh I wish I could see more of your art and possibly even progress pics and walkthroughs of how you achieve it. I wish I could get to that level of understanding of colour and light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Kylie! We've talked a bit about wanting to put out an Art of book for NS2. Ideally it would have more of the process stuff, such as some of the various exploratory sketches before final designs were arrived at, and not just for the concept art, but showing models, textures, etc, as well. But, it takes a significant amount of time to put together, and a significant amount of money to print, so kind of on the wishlist of things to do after release, at this point.
<!--quoteo(post=1753084:date=Feb 14 2010, 11:46 AM:name=Silverwing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silverwing @ Feb 14 2010, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The "fingers" that grip the sac don't grip it and the sac is too uniform.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fingers are actually boney protrusions that are meant to imply ribs. They need to look protective of the vulnerable sac, and yet spaced out and open enough that the the harvester still looks vulnerable enough to be hacked to death by a marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1753109:date=Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM:name=Farren)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Farren @ Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say that I am hating the complete removal of water from NS2 (release).
What I was hoping to include water as is a visual cueue. Small puddles on the ground, dripping water, heck even a fullblown waterfall seen in the distance through some kind of viewport would give a great impression of dampness and a quick and easy change of environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, maybe the blogpost didn't explain this fully enough, but when Max is talking about water he is mainly referring to fullblown, deep, refractive/reflective water that you can swim in. Bioshock style. Small flat puddles are not the same thing, and can be handled as an effect. Dripping water is simply a particle effect, and we'll definitely have it. Even a waterfall (or lavafall) is more on the particle effect side and can be handled in a variety of ways (scrolling UVs, particle spurts, lighting). Lava is actually easier to do then water, because it doesn't have the same transparency and reflectivity.
<!--quoteo(post=1753130:date=Feb 14 2010, 07:48 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 14 2010, 07:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But, it takes a significant amount of time to put together, and a significant amount of money to print, so kind of on the wishlist of things to do after release, at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How about a downloadable version? Hell, just zip your current concept art, I'd gladly pay for it.
i know i shouldnt post here, but since its the most recent topic i thought why not? has any update come out for the editor this friday? i havent had time to check it and ns2's fb and twitter have been a little quiet these past few days...
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1753139:date=Feb 14 2010, 06:11 PM:name=nawkshis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nawkshis @ Feb 14 2010, 06:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i know i shouldnt post here, but since its the most recent topic i thought why not? has any update come out for the editor this friday? i havent had time to check it and ns2's fb and twitter have been a little quiet these past few days...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, the update for this Friday was just for the Harvester. They've been cranking away at the Alpha right now ;)
lol i jsut found out the update was on the unknownworlds website, not naturalselection2.com but thanks for the info, its better to see smaller updates for the editor if it means the alphas getting cranked out
<!--quoteo(post=1753130:date=Feb 14 2010, 06:48 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 14 2010, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, maybe the blogpost didn't explain this fully enough, but when Max is talking about water he is mainly referring to fullblown, deep, refractive/reflective water that you can swim in. Bioshock style. Small flat puddles are not the same thing, and can be handled as an effect. Dripping water is simply a particle effect, and we'll definitely have it. Even a waterfall (or lavafall) is more on the particle effect side and can be handled in a variety of ways (scrolling UVs, particle spurts, lighting). Lava is actually easier to do then water, because it doesn't have the same transparency and reflectivity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We should've been able to figure that out since it was Max who said it. It'd be almost insane not to include water as particles and stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1753130:date=Feb 15 2010, 02:48 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 15 2010, 02:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks Kylie! We've talked a bit about wanting to put out an Art of book for NS2. Ideally it would have more of the process stuff, such as some of the various exploratory sketches before final designs were arrived at, and not just for the concept art, but showing models, textures, etc, as well. But, it takes a significant amount of time to put together, and a significant amount of money to print, so kind of on the wishlist of things to do after release, at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you did I would be sure to buy it, even if its in pdf format (I currently buy another professional artists tutorials and walkthroughs in pdf format, he uses paypal to sell the E-Book, its a great idea and saves on wasting paper ;) )
Even seeing any of your non ns related work would be awesome :)
Harv needs more slime. I realize there will be bloodspray when impacted, but that orange bubble should pop and vomit steam and sludge on the surroundings, maybe even have negative effects on the marines to close to promote ranged engagement.
<!--quoteo(post=1753143:date=Feb 14 2010, 08:27 PM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Feb 14 2010, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glad that the water thing is cleared up. Not too concerned with swimming pools in NS2. Just happy that the atmospheric water is still in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not too sure on that, as the most atmospheric room i ever encountered where that climatic control room with an underwater link to a hiveroom with broken pipes.
slayer20Killed a man once.Join Date: 2007-12-13Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=1753151:date=Feb 14 2010, 07:33 PM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Feb 14 2010, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Harv needs more slime. I realize there will be bloodspray when impacted, but that orange bubble should pop and vomit steam and sludge on the surroundings, maybe even have negative effects on the marines to close to promote ranged engagement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1753109:date=Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM:name=Farren)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Farren @ Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say that I am hating the complete removal of water from NS2 (release). I understand that it takes alot of work to code it in, and that maps can be made without the use of water elements (the underwater passageways in bast were horribly realized... too long without air, too linear for aliens, too murky for marines....).
What I was hoping to include water as is a visual cueue. Small puddles on the ground, dripping water, heck even a fullblown waterfall seen in the distance through some kind of viewport would give a great impression of dampness and a quick and easy change of environment. Just look at how differently a room can look with the addition of rock style props. And how will we be having the supposed lava flows that have been mentioned before, yet there is no time to develop the same with water?
I'm not saying we need water effects or swim physics (ok maybe a few ripples for puddles), but it's really a shame that there will not be any water at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can make puddles as a texture and steam/mist/rain/fog as a particle effect without needing to code water. But if you want it to be voluminous, you need to code it. If it's in the distance you might be able to get away with faking it. But if it can receive light from the game world it would need to be implemented, and that's what they're ruling out. I honestly don't think it will have a significant impact on how the game plays or feels.
A NS2 Artbook would be really really cool - with Design notes and How Cory did it, the background Story and stuff. Epic. Would surely be bought as pdf, too though then there's the chance that it will get pirated really fast.
Or they integrate some Locked PDF in the LaunchPad/Shop, wonder how that would function. Not so well, I believe.
It's so nice how NS2 comes together. I often remember the days when the Dev's had no clue what to do first. heh
<!--quoteo(post=1753224:date=Feb 15 2010, 05:09 PM:name=whoppaXXL)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (whoppaXXL @ Feb 15 2010, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753224"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A NS2 Artbook would be really really cool - with Design notes and How Cory did it, the background Story and stuff. Epic. Would surely be bought as pdf, <b>too though then there's the chance that it will get pirated really fast.</b>
Or they integrate some Locked PDF in the LaunchPad/Shop, wonder how that would function. Not so well, I believe.
It's so nice how NS2 comes together. I often remember the days when the Dev's had no clue what to do first. heh<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
unfortunately your going to have that risk with anything, no doubt people have already made cracks for the spark editor and there will be cracks for the game ns2, it happens to every released product out there, just look at movies, your no doubt going to find someone has made a copy in just 1 screening of the movie, its just the unfortunate way things go. A pdf is less likely to be pirated than a game or program, but even on paper someone WILL go to the trouble of making copies of the printed pages to make a pirated copy.
<!--quoteo(post=1753130:date=Feb 14 2010, 09:48 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 14 2010, 09:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks Kylie! We've talked a bit about wanting to put out an Art of book for NS2. Ideally it would have more of the process stuff, such as some of the various exploratory sketches before final designs were arrived at, and not just for the concept art, but showing models, textures, etc, as well. But, it takes a significant amount of time to put together, and a significant amount of money to print, so kind of on the wishlist of things to do after release, at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh man, as an aspiring artist myself, I absolutely love to see steps taken, and would definitely buy an artbook... I have a few from other games, it's really interesting stuff, but most time they are too small, or not enough in depth. Even then, I'd totally support you with buying an artbook. I've always loved looking at all the conceptual artwork for the NS world, I'd love to see the steps to get to the final product.
My only criticism of the Harvester is that it looks too...clean. I love the design itself, and the animation, but it's colours should be grimier and slightly darker. Apart from that, looks great, can't wait to see more structures!
Yeah my thoughts exactly Ryo-Ohki. I said the same thing when they first showed the new hive. Darker with a higher specular for a more wet slimier look.
I can't wait to see this with DI! I think it looks awesome.. I think some tweaking will make it better. The base does feel a bit flimsy... perhaps a thicker base.. or larger/fatter 'fingers' that grasp the node. Texture wise I think the bulb needs a little work, it looks a little too shiny and plasticy. I would prefer it to be either bumpier, or perhaps another way to approach it is for it to be duller and slightly transparent, so you can see the liquid/gunk moving around inside. Also if it was slightly more organic in animation and not just bulged, but imagine like a water balloon.
I've taken a couple of days to let the harvester grow on me (see what i did there?) and while i very much like the design i too am of mind that something feels off. It just feels a bit too flimsy and round right now. perhaps if it were a bit more bulky from the base and up untill the first bend, and the sack could be a bit droopy so you would still have that organic feel.
I'd like to see gorges have the option of spending res on upgrading individual harvesters so that they can attack a single marine (with a slow cooldown for that attack) in some sort of way. Maybe have it like the Venus Fly Trap, swallowing an entire marine who gets too close in a simlar fashion to the Onos' devour ability, with the swallowed marine needing help from his teammates to be released.
That would be an example of the game living up to it's title name. We have a plant type creature from a fictional alien world that collects resources, yet doesn't do anything when attacked - would this exist in the alien's hypothetical environment? Possibly, we have plenty of defenseless plants in our real world. but surely it'd make a bit more sense and be a bit more fun if that plant could somehow defend itself as part of it's struggle to survive in a harsh environment? Maybe differentiate the two harvesters by one being a young creature and the other a more mature version.
<!--quoteo(post=1753455:date=Feb 16 2010, 03:22 PM:name=rofldinho)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rofldinho @ Feb 16 2010, 03:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd like to see gorges have the option of spending res on upgrading individual harvesters so that they can attack a single marine (with a slow cooldown for that attack) in some sort of way. Maybe have it like the Venus Fly Trap, swallowing an entire marine who gets too close in a simlar fashion to the Onos' devour ability, with the swallowed marine needing help from his teammates to be released.
That would be an example of the game living up to it's title name. We have a plant type creature from a fictional alien world that collects resources, yet doesn't do anything when attacked - would this exist in the alien's hypothetical environment? Possibly, we have plenty of defenseless plants in our real world. but surely it'd make a bit more sense and be a bit more fun if that plant could somehow defend itself as part of it's struggle to survive in a harsh environment? Maybe differentiate the two harvesters by one being a young creature and the other a more mature version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All plants on earth are defenceless, venus fly traps don't eat for defence they eat for food. The closest we have to defence is stinging nettles or poisonous mushrooms.
Which would basically be the alien equivalent of electrify, and would serve the same purpose, making it impossible for lone marines to kill it (using knife) unless they are a specific anti-building marine (or gorge, in the alien's case) or simply very tough (HA can be immune to it or something while onoses are tough enough to resist electric damage).
Also I think the point of the alien ecosystem is that it's all one, the harvester defences are the aliens, they defend the harvester while the harvester gives them biomass or whatever. The alien theme is symbiosis above all else, all the castes and structures work under the unified will of the hive, for mutual survival.
<!--quoteo(post=1753059:date=Feb 14 2010, 07:43 AM:name=Popenator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Popenator @ Feb 14 2010, 07:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I sense a strong lack of faith in yourself and others :\
The outdoor cinematics are proven to be cool additions to a game within 5 minutes of playing Halo 3. Unlike these guys, I'm not bound by a set time for releasing my map, as that would be a pretty unintelligent move to make on my part.
They didn't say that they wouldn't 'allow' water or glass, and he certainly didn't say that glass wouldn't be in the official release.
The fact that water isn't in the initial release is somewhat a put-off, though, because, as you've said, the level of detail you program into the water doesn't depend on how water looks in real life, it depends on what you make of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think there's anything that's stopping you from making a basic water texture out of refractive textures with specular maps, or hell even just a normal mapped animated texture with specular maps, that should be fine for any visual purposes you want. Glass I would have thought would be neccesary if only because translucency is essential for a lot of things in games, decals, sprites, chain link fences, all of them need translucent maps so I'm sure you could make a translucent glass texture if you wanted to.
Oh yes and I like the res tower, looks good and fits the evolutionary style changes from NS1, it has the same oceanic touch that the hive has.
I don't care in the slightest that water and glass won't be in the game. I'd much rather have a good game than a "pretty" game. I'd be fine if water and glass were never added.
<!--quoteo(post=1753334:date=Feb 15 2010, 06:48 PM:name=Ryo-Ohki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryo-Ohki @ Feb 15 2010, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My only criticism of the Harvester is that it looks too...clean. I love the design itself, and the animation, but it's colours should be grimier and slightly darker. Apart from that, looks great, can't wait to see more structures!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1753362:date=Feb 15 2010, 09:15 PM:name=crode)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crode @ Feb 15 2010, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah my thoughts exactly Ryo-Ohki. I said the same thing when they first showed the new hive. Darker with a higher specular for a more wet slimier look.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1753450:date=Feb 16 2010, 10:48 AM:name=Nossah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nossah @ Feb 16 2010, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've taken a couple of days to let the harvester grow on me (see what i did there?) and while i very much like the design i too am of mind that something feels off. It just feels a bit too flimsy and round right now. perhaps if it were a bit more bulky from the base and up untill the first bend, and the sack could be a bit droopy so you would still have that organic feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also agree that the harvester looks somewhat awkward. I know game studios have a theme to aim for and it is often important to ignore everything except what the art director requires but I am still going to give feedback since you asked for it. The reservoir sac is way too round, almost like a basketball. It seems even more out of place regarding the rest of the structure by having sharp bones essentially holding half of something that looks to be very vulnerable to puncture. Making it look like it can eat some damage is probably a good idea if it is going to take a while to kill one.
I am not sure if you guys are still trying to keep things revolving around a nano gridlock and khaara being bacteria in the air etc but maybe a different look for a RT would be better. Something that would act as a medium converting resources into to puffs of clouds and make a haze of bacteria in the area around it which would ultimately find its way back to the hives. For some reason I was thinking something resembling sea anemones would be more appropriate. Keep up the good work though guys, this is all amazing and probably the best small startup work I have seen being done ever. I am really looking forward to dynamic infestation and hopefully some atmospheric effects that would come with it.
PS: I am doing my pre-order when I can have something playable and in the meantime I am hyping this up with all my contacts.
<!--quoteo(post=1753130:date=Feb 15 2010, 02:48 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Feb 15 2010, 02:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks Kylie! We've talked a bit about wanting to put out an Art of book for NS2. Ideally it would have more of the process stuff, such as some of the various exploratory sketches before final designs were arrived at, and not just for the concept art, but showing models, textures, etc, as well. But, it takes a significant amount of time to put together, and a significant amount of money to print, so kind of on the wishlist of things to do after release, at this point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> NS2 book ala raising the bar please!
NS2 harvester looks great. Don't touch it or change it. I have come to the conclusion that people will be critical just for the sake of it.
Anyone who seriously thinks the shapeless brown blob that was the NS1 resource tower is better should probably take their rose tinted nostalgia glasses off.
Comments
What I was hoping to include water as is a visual cueue. Small puddles on the ground, dripping water, heck even a fullblown waterfall seen in the distance through some kind of viewport would give a great impression of dampness and a quick and easy change of environment. Just look at how differently a room can look with the addition of rock style props. And how will we be having the supposed lava flows that have been mentioned before, yet there is no time to develop the same with water?
I'm not saying we need water effects or swim physics (ok maybe a few ripples for puddles), but it's really a shame that there will not be any water at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Water can be easily faked in a map with the use of models and animated textures, I suspect UWE is talking about being able to swim in water, having reacting pools of water, which is a lot different. Take Bioshock for example, most of the water in that game was a texture and/or model, the pools of water things floated in, reacted with, you swam in is the kinda water the NS2 devs seem to be talking about. Look at the refinery concept art and those pools of lava, easily done with an animated texture, to add effect, no need to code being able to swim in lava lol.
Thanks Kylie! We've talked a bit about wanting to put out an Art of book for NS2. Ideally it would have more of the process stuff, such as some of the various exploratory sketches before final designs were arrived at, and not just for the concept art, but showing models, textures, etc, as well. But, it takes a significant amount of time to put together, and a significant amount of money to print, so kind of on the wishlist of things to do after release, at this point.
<!--quoteo(post=1753084:date=Feb 14 2010, 11:46 AM:name=Silverwing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silverwing @ Feb 14 2010, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753084"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The "fingers" that grip the sac don't grip it and the sac is too uniform.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The fingers are actually boney protrusions that are meant to imply ribs. They need to look protective of the vulnerable sac, and yet spaced out and open enough that the the harvester still looks vulnerable enough to be hacked to death by a marine.
<!--quoteo(post=1753109:date=Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM:name=Farren)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Farren @ Feb 14 2010, 03:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have to say that I am hating the complete removal of water from NS2 (release).
What I was hoping to include water as is a visual cueue. Small puddles on the ground, dripping water, heck even a fullblown waterfall seen in the distance through some kind of viewport would give a great impression of dampness and a quick and easy change of environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, maybe the blogpost didn't explain this fully enough, but when Max is talking about water he is mainly referring to fullblown, deep, refractive/reflective water that you can swim in. Bioshock style. Small flat puddles are not the same thing, and can be handled as an effect. Dripping water is simply a particle effect, and we'll definitely have it. Even a waterfall (or lavafall) is more on the particle effect side and can be handled in a variety of ways (scrolling UVs, particle spurts, lighting). Lava is actually easier to do then water, because it doesn't have the same transparency and reflectivity.
--Cory
How about a downloadable version? Hell, just zip your current concept art, I'd gladly pay for it.
No, the update for this Friday was just for the Harvester. They've been cranking away at the Alpha right now ;)
We should've been able to figure that out since it was Max who said it. It'd be almost insane not to include water as particles and stuff.
If you did I would be sure to buy it, even if its in pdf format (I currently buy another professional artists tutorials and walkthroughs in pdf format, he uses paypal to sell the E-Book, its a great idea and saves on wasting paper ;) )
Even seeing any of your non ns related work would be awesome :)
<!--quoteo(post=1753143:date=Feb 14 2010, 08:27 PM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Feb 14 2010, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753143"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Glad that the water thing is cleared up. Not too concerned with swimming pools in NS2. Just happy that the atmospheric water is still in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not too sure on that, as the most atmospheric room i ever encountered where that climatic control room with an underwater link to a hiveroom with broken pipes.
That would mean we can't knife RTs anymore :/
What I was hoping to include water as is a visual cueue. Small puddles on the ground, dripping water, heck even a fullblown waterfall seen in the distance through some kind of viewport would give a great impression of dampness and a quick and easy change of environment. Just look at how differently a room can look with the addition of rock style props. And how will we be having the supposed lava flows that have been mentioned before, yet there is no time to develop the same with water?
I'm not saying we need water effects or swim physics (ok maybe a few ripples for puddles), but it's really a shame that there will not be any water at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can make puddles as a texture and steam/mist/rain/fog as a particle effect without needing to code water. But if you want it to be voluminous, you need to code it. If it's in the distance you might be able to get away with faking it. But if it can receive light from the game world it would need to be implemented, and that's what they're ruling out. I honestly don't think it will have a significant impact on how the game plays or feels.
Would surely be bought as pdf, too though then there's the chance that it will get pirated really fast.
Or they integrate some Locked PDF in the LaunchPad/Shop, wonder how that would function. Not so well, I believe.
It's so nice how NS2 comes together. I often remember the days when the Dev's had no clue what to do first. heh
Would surely be bought as pdf, <b>too though then there's the chance that it will get pirated really fast.</b>
Or they integrate some Locked PDF in the LaunchPad/Shop, wonder how that would function. Not so well, I believe.
It's so nice how NS2 comes together. I often remember the days when the Dev's had no clue what to do first. heh<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
unfortunately your going to have that risk with anything, no doubt people have already made cracks for the spark editor and there will be cracks for the game ns2, it happens to every released product out there, just look at movies, your no doubt going to find someone has made a copy in just 1 screening of the movie, its just the unfortunate way things go. A pdf is less likely to be pirated than a game or program, but even on paper someone WILL go to the trouble of making copies of the printed pages to make a pirated copy.
There should be some slime involved :p
real men play ping pong.
Ping pong 2 is also coming out this spring.
Oh man, as an aspiring artist myself, I absolutely love to see steps taken, and would definitely buy an artbook... I have a few from other games, it's really interesting stuff, but most time they are too small, or not enough in depth. Even then, I'd totally support you with buying an artbook. I've always loved looking at all the conceptual artwork for the NS world, I'd love to see the steps to get to the final product.
anyway, keep up the good work!
That would be an example of the game living up to it's title name. We have a plant type creature from a fictional alien world that collects resources, yet doesn't do anything when attacked - would this exist in the alien's hypothetical environment? Possibly, we have plenty of defenseless plants in our real world. but surely it'd make a bit more sense and be a bit more fun if that plant could somehow defend itself as part of it's struggle to survive in a harsh environment? Maybe differentiate the two harvesters by one being a young creature and the other a more mature version.
That would be an example of the game living up to it's title name. We have a plant type creature from a fictional alien world that collects resources, yet doesn't do anything when attacked - would this exist in the alien's hypothetical environment? Possibly, we have plenty of defenseless plants in our real world. but surely it'd make a bit more sense and be a bit more fun if that plant could somehow defend itself as part of it's struggle to survive in a harsh environment? Maybe differentiate the two harvesters by one being a young creature and the other a more mature version.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All plants on earth are defenceless, venus fly traps don't eat for defence they eat for food. The closest we have to defence is stinging nettles or poisonous mushrooms.
Which would basically be the alien equivalent of electrify, and would serve the same purpose, making it impossible for lone marines to kill it (using knife) unless they are a specific anti-building marine (or gorge, in the alien's case) or simply very tough (HA can be immune to it or something while onoses are tough enough to resist electric damage).
Also I think the point of the alien ecosystem is that it's all one, the harvester defences are the aliens, they defend the harvester while the harvester gives them biomass or whatever. The alien theme is symbiosis above all else, all the castes and structures work under the unified will of the hive, for mutual survival.
<!--quoteo(post=1753059:date=Feb 14 2010, 07:43 AM:name=Popenator)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Popenator @ Feb 14 2010, 07:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I sense a strong lack of faith in yourself and others :\
The outdoor cinematics are proven to be cool additions to a game within 5 minutes of playing Halo 3.
Unlike these guys, I'm not bound by a set time for releasing my map, as that would be a pretty unintelligent move to make on my part.
They didn't say that they wouldn't 'allow' water or glass, and he certainly didn't say that glass wouldn't be in the official release.
The fact that water isn't in the initial release is somewhat a put-off, though, because, as you've said, the level of detail you program into the water doesn't depend on how water looks in real life, it depends on what you make of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think there's anything that's stopping you from making a basic water texture out of refractive textures with specular maps, or hell even just a normal mapped animated texture with specular maps, that should be fine for any visual purposes you want. Glass I would have thought would be neccesary if only because translucency is essential for a lot of things in games, decals, sprites, chain link fences, all of them need translucent maps so I'm sure you could make a translucent glass texture if you wanted to.
Oh yes and I like the res tower, looks good and fits the evolutionary style changes from NS1, it has the same oceanic touch that the hive has.
<!--quoteo(post=1753362:date=Feb 15 2010, 09:15 PM:name=crode)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crode @ Feb 15 2010, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah my thoughts exactly Ryo-Ohki. I said the same thing when they first showed the new hive. Darker with a higher specular for a more wet slimier look.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1753450:date=Feb 16 2010, 10:48 AM:name=Nossah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nossah @ Feb 16 2010, 10:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1753450"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've taken a couple of days to let the harvester grow on me (see what i did there?) and while i very much like the design i too am of mind that something feels off. It just feels a bit too flimsy and round right now. perhaps if it were a bit more bulky from the base and up untill the first bend, and the sack could be a bit droopy so you would still have that organic feel.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I also agree that the harvester looks somewhat awkward. I know game studios have a theme to aim for and it is often important to ignore everything except what the art director requires but I am still going to give feedback since you asked for it. The reservoir sac is way too round, almost like a basketball. It seems even more out of place regarding the rest of the structure by having sharp bones essentially holding half of something that looks to be very vulnerable to puncture. Making it look like it can eat some damage is probably a good idea if it is going to take a while to kill one.
I am not sure if you guys are still trying to keep things revolving around a nano gridlock and khaara being bacteria in the air etc but maybe a different look for a RT would be better. Something that would act as a medium converting resources into to puffs of clouds and make a haze of bacteria in the area around it which would ultimately find its way back to the hives. For some reason I was thinking something resembling sea anemones would be more appropriate. Keep up the good work though guys, this is all amazing and probably the best small startup work I have seen being done ever. I am really looking forward to dynamic infestation and hopefully some atmospheric effects that would come with it.
PS: I am doing my pre-order when I can have something playable and in the meantime I am hyping this up with all my contacts.
NS2 book ala raising the bar please!
Anyone who seriously thinks the shapeless brown blob that was the NS1 resource tower is better should probably take their rose tinted nostalgia glasses off.