Focus Suggestion
Battle-Bug
Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
Join Date: 2010-02-11 Member: 70523Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Need more skill to kill</div><!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Introduction:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Focus is a skill from NS1 that (assuming it's implemented in NS2) could be expanded. The problem I found with focus is that it instantly did a lot more damage in one simple upgrade. There was no more skill needed. There was no real downside because most aliens don't need to do that much damage repeatedly in such rapid succession. Also, it gave the alien the ability to kill a low level marine in a single hit. A one hit kill is a very powerful attack.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Suggestion:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Make focus a charging skill. This means that it has to charge in order to have the full effect. At 0% charge, it does normal bite/swipe damage. At 100%, it does full focus damage. It takes approximately 1 full second to charge.
In order to charge, the player must either:
1. Hold down the left mouse button then release to attack.
2. Hold the right mouse button to charge and left mouse button to attack.
3. It charges automatically any time that the attack skill is selected and a simple click will attack.
Since the marines upgrade their damage in 3 levels and the aliens upgrade their damage in 1 level, a bit more skill isn't asking for much.
***I'm not committed to his next suggestion. I'm just throwing it out there*** As another possibility, we could add a visual effect. As the alien focuses on his target, the edges of his screen blurs a bit (he is focusing on the center of his screen... where his target should be).
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Result:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
More skill is needed in using the focus skill. This is because the player must give himself a full second of time between the time he used his last skill (leap/blink) and the attack itself. The worst case scenario is that he does normal damage. If he doesn't charge for a full second, he does the amount of damage that has been charged (between normal and focus damage).
If you guys would like to suggest a different time interval, another method of charging, or anything else, please do so.
Note: This is an alternative to threads that mention multiple upgrade levels for alien damage.
Reference Thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=99951" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...showtopic=99951</a>
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Note: Please keep all posts objective and constructive. It is ok not to like this suggestion, but it is not ok to be outright rude. If you don't like this suggestion, then please explain what it is exactly you don't like. It is very much appreciated if you provide alternatives to make this idea acceptable.
</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Focus is a skill from NS1 that (assuming it's implemented in NS2) could be expanded. The problem I found with focus is that it instantly did a lot more damage in one simple upgrade. There was no more skill needed. There was no real downside because most aliens don't need to do that much damage repeatedly in such rapid succession. Also, it gave the alien the ability to kill a low level marine in a single hit. A one hit kill is a very powerful attack.
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Suggestion:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Make focus a charging skill. This means that it has to charge in order to have the full effect. At 0% charge, it does normal bite/swipe damage. At 100%, it does full focus damage. It takes approximately 1 full second to charge.
In order to charge, the player must either:
1. Hold down the left mouse button then release to attack.
2. Hold the right mouse button to charge and left mouse button to attack.
3. It charges automatically any time that the attack skill is selected and a simple click will attack.
Since the marines upgrade their damage in 3 levels and the aliens upgrade their damage in 1 level, a bit more skill isn't asking for much.
***I'm not committed to his next suggestion. I'm just throwing it out there*** As another possibility, we could add a visual effect. As the alien focuses on his target, the edges of his screen blurs a bit (he is focusing on the center of his screen... where his target should be).
<!--coloro:#00BFFF--><span style="color:#00BFFF"><!--/coloro--><b>Result:</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
More skill is needed in using the focus skill. This is because the player must give himself a full second of time between the time he used his last skill (leap/blink) and the attack itself. The worst case scenario is that he does normal damage. If he doesn't charge for a full second, he does the amount of damage that has been charged (between normal and focus damage).
If you guys would like to suggest a different time interval, another method of charging, or anything else, please do so.
Note: This is an alternative to threads that mention multiple upgrade levels for alien damage.
Reference Thread:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=99951" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...showtopic=99951</a>
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro--><b>Note: Please keep all posts objective and constructive. It is ok not to like this suggestion, but it is not ok to be outright rude. If you don't like this suggestion, then please explain what it is exactly you don't like. It is very much appreciated if you provide alternatives to make this idea acceptable.
</b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
Comments
Your first attack would be completely charged and therefore a one-shot-kill on an unupgraded marine. (I assume no leap)
Therefore marines got armor1 early to prevent one-shots.
Now the alien has the advantage from both: high upfront damage to nearly kill the marine, he's nearly dead after first hit, and fast attacks to finish him off with a non-charged attack right after. Imo it would actually be easier to kill in the end for a skulk.
In fact, this approach would reduce the hit-and-run abilities of fades and skulks utilizing leap and blink ability,
as they don't have the damageboost up front. However I don't think they will blink in, charge, attack, then retreat, but not charge at all, which defeats the whole purpose of the ability for hit-and-run. So, for hit-and-run you'd probably get a different SC upgrade.
This is of course all based on NS1 combat mechanics. :o
Depends on the charge up time and blink mechanic.
Even if you can't activate the charge up while blinking, it's not that bad to build up speed, switch to swipe and then just curve to target sometimes. Of course it's not as versatile and easy as it is now, but I wouldn't call it completely useless. With the new 'surgigal striker' fade it's probably not going to work though.
On the other hand +movement and NS2 secondary fires can easily allow you to charge it up while blinking. I don't know how inuitive it would be though.
The quick focusbite-normalbite combo is why I haven't suggested any form of this anywhere. The idea has crossed my mind more than a few times, but I haven't seen any way to get around that.
Stupid comparison. Marines and aliens are dissimilar in so many ways that you can't just look at a single element of their interactions alone.
Your first attack would be completely charged and therefore a one-shot-kill on an unupgraded marine. (I assume no leap)
Therefore marines got armor1 early to prevent one-shots.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do have the idea correctly. If the skulk leaps, the charge is reset. Also, the second bite can be in more rapid succession. This is an advantage over marines. If we wanted to make this a disadvantage over marines, we'd have to make focus charge up all the way before use (can't attack until it is charged).
<!--quoteo(post=1755715:date=Feb 26 2010, 11:45 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Feb 26 2010, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755715"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow does no one realize that the shotgun kills skulks in one shot?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's point blank with a direct hit. It's also a whole different animal... a bit off topic imo.
<!--quoteo(post=1755740:date=Feb 27 2010, 02:00 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Feb 27 2010, 02:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the other hand +movement and NS2 secondary fires can easily allow you to charge it up while blinking. I don't know how inuitive it would be though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No charging while blinking. The use of any other ability will reset the charge.
More skill is needed in using the focus skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is something requiring skill always universally good?
Wouldn't it be more accessible to a casual gaming player for it to require less skill?
Do the aliens need more skill-related traits?
Wouldn't it be more accessible to a casual gaming player for it to require less skill?
Do the aliens need more skill-related traits?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
??????????????????//////////////////
It's an advantage over RT's.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's point blank with a direct hit. It's also a whole different animal... a bit off topic imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Given that Shotguns with no upgrades do more than twice as much damage as Skulks have health, that's more like "pretty close" in both regards, and since Skulks have to get even closer to do damage...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No charging while blinking. The use of any other ability will reset the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And if I have to wait a full second <i>after initiating the attack</i> (rushing at the Marines counting as initiating the attack) to actually do any damage, then it's mostly useless for Skulks and completely useless for Fades.
Wouldn't it be more accessible to a casual gaming player for it to require less skill?
Do the aliens need more skill-related traits?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A day or two ago, I read "NS2 should be easy to learn and difficult to master." I agree with this opinion. This skill wouldn't take much to learn, but it would take strategy, discipline, and time to master.
<!--quoteo(post=1755821:date=Feb 27 2010, 10:20 AM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Feb 27 2010, 10:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755821"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And if I have to wait a full second <i>after initiating the attack</i> (rushing at the Marines counting as initiating the attack) to actually do any damage, then it's mostly useless for Skulks and completely useless for Fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of the points of my idea is to prolong battle. I see too many aliens in NS1 flying in, hitting one or two marines, then flying out. That isn't battle. You may argue that they don't stick around because they're getting shot. I've spectated some of the fades that do this (then metabolize out of sight) and they've got 50-80% health left (no where near fleeing out of desperation). Also, I see too many fades (in combat mode) with a 10:1 k:d ratio... too often. (yes, I know we're discussing NS mode)
btw, if you leap or blink a long distance, that second charge up time will be nothing. It'll really only hurts you when you want to leap or blink a short distance.
<!--quoteo(post=1755895:date=Feb 27 2010, 03:19 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Feb 27 2010, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Learn to play fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 :)
The whole point of Focus is that it gives the Fade extra burst damage on their hit-and-run attacks. If it actually <i>reduces</i> their quick damage output, there's simply no reason to use it when you have a choice of any other ability.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/static/com...eCalculator.htm</a>
Basically, you're getting penalized for having a higher level of focus because of a slower attack speed. At 0 armor, a focus fade can 1 hit kill a marine. At 1 armor, 2 level 1 focus hits kill him. At level 2 armor, you only need level 2 focus to two hit kill. At level 3 armor finally it takes 2 level 3 focus swipes to kill, and 2 level 2 focus swipes do 3 less damage then you need to kill so having a spore out would kill the marine. Of course, I'm neglecting if the commander is dropping meds on the marine so his armor and health aren't dropping as fast or if a pack of marines are getting spored up and losing a bit of health and armor already, but basically you could be killing a marine faster with level 2 focus than level 3. I found this really stupid, so I honestly wouldn't mind having the ability to control how strong a focus you want to use (if you want to be swiping the air quickly or hit and run swiping should be a choice IMO).
Luckily, it seems that upgrades are a lot different for aliens in NS2. I hope focus is not included at all, getting 1-shotted by a near impossible to miss attack is annoying as hell. The fact that by mid-late game it's necessary is one of the worst points of NS1 gameplay. If anything like focus is included it should instead increase rate of fire at the cost of more energy used per attack.
I'm in agreement about the near impossible to miss attack. I don't know exactly how it's coded, but I imagine a 120 degree & 7 foot radius field in front of the fade. I don't like getting swiped when the fade isn't even looking at me!
I also hope that focus isn't in NS2. This was my attempt to fix it. I'm actually liking the idea of it just having to charge <b>before </b>it can be used. That way, the first and second attacks have a delay to help prevent the hit and runs.
The whole point of Focus is that it gives the Fade extra burst damage on their hit-and-run attacks. If it actually <i>reduces</i> their quick damage output, there's simply no reason to use it when you have a choice of any other ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This
<!--quoteo(post=1755958:date=Feb 28 2010, 04:08 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Feb 28 2010, 04:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1755958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've faded for team Europe, team United Kingdom and knife. This is a bad suggestion in terms of NS1 play.
Luckily, it seems that upgrades are a lot different for aliens in NS2. I hope focus is not included at all, getting 1-shotted by a near impossible to miss attack is annoying as hell. The fact that by mid-late game it's necessary is one of the worst points of NS1 gameplay. If anything like focus is included it should instead increase rate of fire at the cost of more energy used per attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He knows what he's talking about.
It has to be balanced. If it's stronger, it should be slower... or have some other disadvantage. Do you want a skulk that can bite 5 times per second and do 10 dmg per bite? (rhetorical question)