I've avoided this thread the best I can until now.
First off, whoop de' ######' do. Steam for Macs is here. (And apparently has been for awhile, according to a friendly Mac enthusiast.) That's cool I guess, but not that big of an impact on myself. I can see that making a few dudes happy.
Secondly, why the hell have people started calling computers with Windows OS "PC"s? PC stands for Personal Computer, and last time I checked, Apple made computers for... well, personal use. I understand a commercial used the term briefly, but please don't let that influence you to say dumb things.
And lastly, I think the most important topic is being entirely missed here. Steam on Macs is mag' ######' neato, but that isn't what they're showing us. Gordan Freeman and TF2 Sentry's have little to do with Steam, they're Source material... And the Source Engine working on a Mac without some sort of wine bull###### is extremely interesting.
@WatchMaker PC is merely the mainstreamed slang for a computer with a Windows OS, hence no proprietary hardware. I am sure you know that, and although I agree with your point made, you must speak the same language as others to effectively communicate. I have informed people of their mis-use of "PC" for years, but it never changes if people have learned the one and only word to associate Windows based PC's (since mac likes to distinguish itself) apart from MACs, or if the source does not change (mac commercials). Again blame Apple for spreading shear ignorance.
What does this announcement mean? Mac users get a bit more comfort in running Half-Life. PC users get OpenGL support in Source with possibility of some menial improvements. Unknown Worlds get a little less hassle in porting their stuff to Mac/Linux. For everything else, it's completely unrelated and boring.
<!--quoteo(post=1758512:date=Mar 10 2010, 11:32 AM:name=WatchMaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WatchMaker @ Mar 10 2010, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758512"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Secondly, why the hell have people started calling computers with Windows OS "PC"s?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Since Apple released those ads. It's a diabolically genius strategy if you think about it: divide and conquer.
<!--quoteo(post=1758508:date=Mar 10 2010, 03:19 AM:name=ryanericw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ryanericw @ Mar 10 2010, 03:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758508"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apple tries to hold the high-end of the market (not even worthy being called a computer), by selling sub-par products with an interface with nothing but eye candy, then boost advertising and marketing to promote it is on a higher level than a PC, yet MACs do have many problems themselves. (Snow Leopard? HP Printer support on the release date? NONE.) The reason MACs don't usually have viruses brings you back to the first reason why viruses or malicious code is created in the first place. People usually want important information or want to simply mess with people. People on MACs tend to not carry important, sensitive information, and these people are generally unnoticed because of their lack of sense to realize these "computers" are nothing but a fascade to relieve users of unfriendly experiences with such a bold, powerful, and flexible computer running an operating system such as windows, giving them an alternative to do simplistic tasks because their mind cannot fathom anything more complex than a click of a button. All I can say is, if you plan on buying ANY apple product, better buy that extended warranty. Their hardware is junk, and their OS is primitive. Why do you think they let you emulate windows? Windows is by far more useful in pretty much all ways to the worlds majority of users. Server ops, simple minded people excluded.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you feel that way, then don't buy one. Also, don't make fun of the people who do. A lot of people who own them are very well educated, and to be honest are more focused on work than games which is kind of obvious. But, like myself I actually only use it to game which sounds retarted I know, but I had my reasons, and I couldn't be happier. How is there hardware junk though, its all made to work together? They actually contact a company like nVidia and work on graphics cards. They also just spent $1,000,000,000 on making there on CPU for the iPad, which I know the iPad is retarted, and all it is is an overpriced iPod, but still you don't see many companies doing that. Go use a mac, and then tell us there ###### instead of bashing them because you probably haven't used them since like 2004. Apple never really made powerful graphics cards because of the fact that they didn't care about gaming and for the average Mac user they were more than enough power. Some people don't think either. Think about putting a 27" led screen, 16gb of ram, an intel quad core i7, and an ati radeon hd 4850 512mb graphics card into a case thats two inches thick. come on, thats good.
<!--quoteo(post=1758538:date=Mar 10 2010, 08:12 AM:name=Flipster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipster @ Mar 10 2010, 08:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758538"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Think about putting a 27" led screen, 16gb of ram, an intel quad core i7, and an ati radeon hd 4850 512mb graphics card into a case thats two inches thick. come on, thats good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> and we all know what happens <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/30/macbook-air-users-still-faced-with-overheating-problems/2" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/30/macbook...ting-problems/2</a> or <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/08/17-inch-mbp-fan-overheating-issues-causing-geforce-9600m-to-bu/" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/08/17-inch...ce-9600m-to-bu/</a>
I'm not weighing in on this debate for either side, just correctly a little fanboy-ism. Don't fall for the party line that says we are defined by what OS we use, if "you" like a mac - so be it. Windows, Linux and Mac OS's (and the hardware created around them) are made by humans and all of it is prone to failure - one is not better than any other for every task. As for the topic, I think this is excellent news and a win-win situation for everyone involved.
Just pointing out, but Source is definitely coming to macs.
Also, Portal 2 :D
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Valve announced today it will bring Steam, Valve's gaming service, and Source, Valve's gaming engine, to the Mac.
Steam and Valve's library of games including Left 4 Dead 2, Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike, Portal, and the Half-Life series will be available in April.
"As we transition from entertainment as a product to entertainment as a service, customers and developers need open, high-quality Internet clients," said Gabe Newell, President of Valve. "The Mac is a great platform for entertainment services."
"Our Steam partners, who are delivering over a thousand games to 25 million Steam clients, are very excited about adding support for the Mac," said Jason Holtman, Director of Business Development at Valve. "Steamworks for the Mac supports all of the Steamworks APIs, and we have added a new feature, called Steam Play, which allows customers who purchase the product for the Mac or Windows to play on the other platform free of charge. For example, Steam Play, in combination with the Steam Cloud, allows a gamer playing on their work PC to go home and pick up playing the same game at the same point on their home Mac. We expect most developers and publishers to take advantage of Steam Play."
"We looked at a variety of methods to get our games onto the Mac and in the end decided to go with native versions rather than emulation," said John Cook, Director of Steam Development. "The inclusion of WebKit into Steam, and of OpenGL into Source gives us a lot of flexibility in how we move these technologies forward. We are treating the Mac as a tier-1 platform so all of our future games will release simultaneously on Windows, Mac, and the Xbox 360. Updates for the Mac will be available simultaneously with the Windows updates. Furthermore, Mac and Windows players will be part of the same multiplayer universe, sharing servers, lobbies, and so forth. We fully support a heterogeneous mix of servers and clients. The first Mac Steam client will be the new generation currently in beta testing on Windows."
Portal 2 will be Valve's first simultaneous release for Mac and Windows. "Checking in code produces a PC build and Mac build at the same time, automatically, so the two platforms are perfectly in lock-step," said Josh Weier, Portal 2 Project Lead. "We're always playing a native version on the Mac right alongside the PC. This makes it very easy for us and for anyone using Source to do game development for the Mac."
Support for the Mac in Source and Steamworks is available to third parties immediately. Interested developers should contact Jason Holtman at jasonh@valvesoftware.com.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1758538:date=Mar 10 2010, 07:12 AM:name=Flipster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipster @ Mar 10 2010, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758538"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you feel that way, then don't buy one. Also, don't make fun of the people who do. A lot of people who own them are very well educated, and to be honest are more focused on work than games which is kind of obvious. But, like myself I actually only use it to game which sounds retarted I know, but I had my reasons, and I couldn't be happier. How is there hardware junk though, its all made to work together? They actually contact a company like nVidia and work on graphics cards. They also just spent $1,000,000,000 on making there on CPU for the iPad, which I know the iPad is retarted, and all it is is an overpriced iPod, but still you don't see many companies doing that. Go use a mac, and then tell us there ###### instead of bashing them because you probably haven't used them since like 2004. Apple never really made powerful graphics cards because of the fact that they didn't care about gaming and for the average Mac user they were more than enough power. Some people don't think either. Think about putting a 27" led screen, 16gb of ram, an intel quad core i7, and an ati radeon hd 4850 512mb graphics card into a case thats two inches thick. come on, thats good.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure anyone can be "well educated" and still not know anything on a deep technical level dealing with computer technology or how operating systems work; thus why people have majors. Just because someone is "well educated" does not mean they are genius and know all the best decisions. It is those people Apple targets, hence controlling the top of the market. High price scale. It completely reminds me of how foreign car manufacturers do it. It is all about image. Toyota can say whatever they want about a truck and how its better, advertise it like hell, but the common user who has owned multiple trucks and uses them for what they were designed for, "work", will tell you toyota trucks are junk as they have weak differentials and part costs are higher than domestic vehicles. Lets not even get into comparison about a GMC Sierra HD3500 Duramax Diesel compared to a Toyota Tundra. The GM product would tear that toyota a new ###### hands down. GM does not advertise their trucks and say "we are better, we get awards every year, blah blah", because they know they do, and their customer base knows. Much like Microsoft knows that people know their product is more versatile. This just goes to show you, this is something that happens in many markets, not just computing equipment. Many people who are focused on work around the world use Windows including myself. My work machine at home has had the same version of XP installed on it since 05, which shows you if you use your computer appropriately, "mine is strictly work", then you will obtain the expected results. A reliable and very flexible computer at a low cost. Something Apple does not offer. Mac users often remind me of the stereotype hybrid automobile users have. Far too often. ---- BTW, my AMD Phenomâ„¢ II X4 965 Black Edition > your i7. Guarantee that 16GB of ram is doing more harm to the performance of your processor than you think.
<!--quoteo(post=1758482:date=Mar 10 2010, 07:00 AM:name=Flipster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipster @ Mar 10 2010, 07:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><!--coloro:#ff0000--><span style="color:#ff0000"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->guys, i didn't make this thread so people could troll about whether pcs are better than macs or macs are better than pcs<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b>.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> i made it to inform the community about the announcement that valve made about steam coming to macs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This thread was already threatened to be closed, and I personally have no idea why it still isn't.
<!--quoteo(post=1758560:date=Mar 10 2010, 05:55 PM:name=Flipster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipster @ Mar 10 2010, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just ignore them. Wouldn't it be easier for UWE to port it over now though because steamworks is compatible for macs?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> On it.
Absolutely. Seeing how the main reason for them taking up Steamworks was so that they wouldn't have to write server browser code and so on, and now they won't have to at all. No idea what it means for Linux in light of no official announcement on that front though.
<!--quoteo(post=1758564:date=Mar 10 2010, 10:03 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Mar 10 2010, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On it.
Absolutely. Seeing how the main reason for them taking up Steamworks was so that they wouldn't have to write server browser code and so on, and now they won't have to at all. No idea what it means for Linux in light of no official announcement on that front though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't servers run on Linux lol? I bet you after the Mac release though Linux would be released next. Computer gaming is so much better than Xbox and Playstation gaming lol.
still depends if steam will get a native version for linux. And flipster, a server browser has nothing to do with a server, servers can run on linux because they are especially written for it, and use no graphics (which is the main issue for porting stuff to linux), sound or other drivers besides network
Comments
First off, whoop de' ######' do. Steam for Macs is here. (And apparently has been for awhile, according to a friendly Mac enthusiast.) That's cool I guess, but not that big of an impact on myself. I can see that making a few dudes happy.
Secondly, why the hell have people started calling computers with Windows OS "PC"s? PC stands for Personal Computer, and last time I checked, Apple made computers for... well, personal use. I understand a commercial used the term briefly, but please don't let that influence you to say dumb things.
And lastly, I think the most important topic is being entirely missed here. Steam on Macs is mag' ######' neato, but that isn't what they're showing us. Gordan Freeman and TF2 Sentry's have little to do with Steam, they're Source material... And the Source Engine working on a Mac without some sort of wine bull###### is extremely interesting.
PC is merely the mainstreamed slang for a computer with a Windows OS, hence no proprietary hardware. I am sure you know that, and although I agree with your point made, you must speak the same language as others to effectively communicate. I have informed people of their mis-use of "PC" for years, but it never changes if people have learned the one and only word to associate Windows based PC's (since mac likes to distinguish itself) apart from MACs, or if the source does not change (mac commercials).
Again blame Apple for spreading shear ignorance.
What does this announcement mean? Mac users get a bit more comfort in running Half-Life. PC users get OpenGL support in Source with possibility of some menial improvements. Unknown Worlds get a little less hassle in porting their stuff to Mac/Linux. For everything else, it's completely unrelated and boring.
<!--quoteo(post=1758512:date=Mar 10 2010, 11:32 AM:name=WatchMaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WatchMaker @ Mar 10 2010, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1758512"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Secondly, why the hell have people started calling computers with Windows OS "PC"s?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since Apple released those ads. It's a diabolically genius strategy if you think about it: divide and conquer.
The reason MACs don't usually have viruses brings you back to the first reason why viruses or malicious code is created in the first place. People usually want important information or want to simply mess with people. People on MACs tend to not carry important, sensitive information, and these people are generally unnoticed because of their lack of sense to realize these "computers" are nothing but a fascade to relieve users of unfriendly experiences with such a bold, powerful, and flexible computer running an operating system such as windows, giving them an alternative to do simplistic tasks because their mind cannot fathom anything more complex than a click of a button.
All I can say is, if you plan on buying ANY apple product, better buy that extended warranty. Their hardware is junk, and their OS is primitive. Why do you think they let you emulate windows? Windows is by far more useful in pretty much all ways to the worlds majority of users.
Server ops, simple minded people excluded.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you feel that way, then don't buy one. Also, don't make fun of the people who do. A lot of people who own them are very well educated, and to be honest are more focused on work than games which is kind of obvious. But, like myself I actually only use it to game which sounds retarted I know, but I had my reasons, and I couldn't be happier. How is there hardware junk though, its all made to work together? They actually contact a company like nVidia and work on graphics cards. They also just spent $1,000,000,000 on making there on CPU for the iPad, which I know the iPad is retarted, and all it is is an overpriced iPod, but still you don't see many companies doing that. Go use a mac, and then tell us there ###### instead of bashing them because you probably haven't used them since like 2004. Apple never really made powerful graphics cards because of the fact that they didn't care about gaming and for the average Mac user they were more than enough power. Some people don't think either. Think about putting a 27" led screen, 16gb of ram, an intel quad core i7, and an ati radeon hd 4850 512mb graphics card into a case thats two inches thick. come on, thats good.
and we all know what happens
<a href="http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/30/macbook-air-users-still-faced-with-overheating-problems/2" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/30/macbook...ting-problems/2</a>
or
<a href="http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/08/17-inch-mbp-fan-overheating-issues-causing-geforce-9600m-to-bu/" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/08/17-inch...ce-9600m-to-bu/</a>
I'm not weighing in on this debate for either side, just correctly a little fanboy-ism. Don't fall for the party line that says we are defined by what OS we use, if "you" like a mac - so be it. Windows, Linux and Mac OS's (and the hardware created around them) are made by humans and all of it is prone to failure - one is not better than any other for every task.
As for the topic, I think this is excellent news and a win-win situation for everyone involved.
(I am not a mac or windows user)
Also, Portal 2 :D
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Valve announced today it will bring Steam, Valve's gaming service, and Source, Valve's gaming engine, to the Mac.
Steam and Valve's library of games including Left 4 Dead 2, Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike, Portal, and the Half-Life series will be available in April.
"As we transition from entertainment as a product to entertainment as a service, customers and developers need open, high-quality Internet clients," said Gabe Newell, President of Valve. "The Mac is a great platform for entertainment services."
"Our Steam partners, who are delivering over a thousand games to 25 million Steam clients, are very excited about adding support for the Mac," said Jason Holtman, Director of Business Development at Valve. "Steamworks for the Mac supports all of the Steamworks APIs, and we have added a new feature, called Steam Play, which allows customers who purchase the product for the Mac or Windows to play on the other platform free of charge. For example, Steam Play, in combination with the Steam Cloud, allows a gamer playing on their work PC to go home and pick up playing the same game at the same point on their home Mac. We expect most developers and publishers to take advantage of Steam Play."
"We looked at a variety of methods to get our games onto the Mac and in the end decided to go with native versions rather than emulation," said John Cook, Director of Steam Development. "The inclusion of WebKit into Steam, and of OpenGL into Source gives us a lot of flexibility in how we move these technologies forward. We are treating the Mac as a tier-1 platform so all of our future games will release simultaneously on Windows, Mac, and the Xbox 360. Updates for the Mac will be available simultaneously with the Windows updates. Furthermore, Mac and Windows players will be part of the same multiplayer universe, sharing servers, lobbies, and so forth. We fully support a heterogeneous mix of servers and clients. The first Mac Steam client will be the new generation currently in beta testing on Windows."
Portal 2 will be Valve's first simultaneous release for Mac and Windows. "Checking in code produces a PC build and Mac build at the same time, automatically, so the two platforms are perfectly in lock-step," said Josh Weier, Portal 2 Project Lead. "We're always playing a native version on the Mac right alongside the PC. This makes it very easy for us and for anyone using Source to do game development for the Mac."
Support for the Mac in Source and Steamworks is available to third parties immediately. Interested developers should contact Jason Holtman at jasonh@valvesoftware.com.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure anyone can be "well educated" and still not know anything on a deep technical level dealing with computer technology or how operating systems work; thus why people have majors.
Just because someone is "well educated" does not mean they are genius and know all the best decisions. It is those people Apple targets, hence controlling the top of the market. High price scale. It completely reminds me of how foreign car manufacturers do it. It is all about image. Toyota can say whatever they want about a truck and how its better, advertise it like hell, but the common user who has owned multiple trucks and uses them for what they were designed for, "work", will tell you toyota trucks are junk as they have weak differentials and part costs are higher than domestic vehicles. Lets not even get into comparison about a GMC Sierra HD3500 Duramax Diesel compared to a Toyota Tundra. The GM product would tear that toyota a new ###### hands down. GM does not advertise their trucks and say "we are better, we get awards every year, blah blah", because they know they do, and their customer base knows. Much like Microsoft knows that people know their product is more versatile. This just goes to show you, this is something that happens in many markets, not just computing equipment.
Many people who are focused on work around the world use Windows including myself. My work machine at home has had the same version of XP installed on it since 05, which shows you if you use your computer appropriately, "mine is strictly work", then you will obtain the expected results. A reliable and very flexible computer at a low cost. Something Apple does not offer.
Mac users often remind me of the stereotype hybrid automobile users have. Far too often.
----
BTW, my AMD Phenomâ„¢ II X4 965 Black Edition > your i7. Guarantee that 16GB of ram is doing more harm to the performance of your processor than you think.
This thread was already threatened to be closed, and I personally have no idea why it still isn't.
On it.
Absolutely. Seeing how the main reason for them taking up Steamworks was so that they wouldn't have to write server browser code and so on, and now they won't have to at all. No idea what it means for Linux in light of no official announcement on that front though.
Absolutely. Seeing how the main reason for them taking up Steamworks was so that they wouldn't have to write server browser code and so on, and now they won't have to at all. No idea what it means for Linux in light of no official announcement on that front though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't servers run on Linux lol? I bet you after the Mac release though Linux would be released next. Computer gaming is so much better than Xbox and Playstation gaming lol.