<!--quoteo(post=1760693:date=Mar 22 2010, 06:34 PM:name=Voyager I)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Voyager I @ Mar 22 2010, 06:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760693"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are we nerfing Fades?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because they are overpowered to make up for the alien weakness in the early game in NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1760694:date=Mar 22 2010, 05:44 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aNytiMe @ Mar 22 2010, 05:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because they are overpowered to make up for the alien weakness in the early game in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> either that's a serious dose of sarcasm or you need to play with better marines.
What's great about this idea is that it rewards skill since it's a small, fast moving target. It only nerfs the fade if the marines have the skill to head shot.
<!--quoteo(post=1760698:date=Mar 22 2010, 06:50 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Mar 22 2010, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760698"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->either that's a serious dose of sarcasm or you need to play with better marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you the renegade I've seen chilling near the bottom of the scoreboard on the <BAD> server? If so you need to stop posting ASAP, lest you make more of a giant fool of yourself. If you're a euro, I can safely assure you that euro fades are really bad compared to American fades.
Fades tank four shotgun volleys, so if you're dying as a fade before marines have JPHMGs, you are not a very good fade. That or your team just doesn't know how to parasite.
What can be done is that a 2x damage face hitbox can be added and the resource cost for fades can be drastically reduced. This would make fades less of a gamebreaker.
Nope, just someone's whose been playing a lot longer than you and can actually comment on the difference between a 2.x-no-head-hitbox-fade vs. a 3.x-2lmg0-takedown-fade. I think your problem generally resides in the "lrn2aim" category.
<!--quoteo(post=1760713:date=Mar 22 2010, 07:49 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Mar 22 2010, 07:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760713"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nope, just someone's whose been playing a lot longer than you and can actually comment on the difference between a 2.x-no-head-hitbox-fade vs. a 3.x-2lmg0-takedown-fade. I think your problem generally resides in the "lrn2aim" category.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've played since 1.04 so you can't possibly have played "a lot longer than I have." Why don't you go ahead and post your gaming resume here in this thread. What leagues have you played it? What have you won?
<!--quoteo(post=1760727:date=Mar 22 2010, 08:23 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aNytiMe @ Mar 22 2010, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760727"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've played since 1.04 so you can't possibly have played "a lot longer than I have." Why don't you go ahead and post your gaming resume here in this thread. What leagues have you played it? What have you won?
This thread is not a troll, I'm dead serious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1760711:date=Mar 22 2010, 06:38 PM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aNytiMe @ Mar 22 2010, 06:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you're a euro, I can safely assure you that euro fades are really bad compared to American fades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So add headshots into a game that has a fixed spread that isn't accurate, GREAT IDEA SO MUCH SKILL FROM RANDOM SPREAD. Yeah, if you're 2 feet from a fade you can actually hit the head, but basically makes it so fades shouldn't go towards marine and should get a acid rocket like in NS1 as a primary and become lerkv2. Already there's a punishment that marines hit more shots the closer they are because of spread (except onos who have a huge hitbox big as an HMG/SG's spread).
I like my fades strong because for 50 res (unpooled res, unlike marines), they should be greater than a 25 res jetpack hmg and equal to two of them IN THEORY (no aimbot/godly aim, because a single jp hmg/sg can beat a fade if he's good). They're hardly overpowered anyways unless you're playing in a combat map with xmenu hunger permablink 1000 carapace. If you have great positioning, you can block a fade and destroy them in the .5 seconds they're stuck/have to path away. And we don't even know if fades will still be blinking the same way they do in NS1.
<!--quoteo(post=1760864:date=Mar 23 2010, 02:18 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Mar 23 2010, 02:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So add headshots into a game that has a fixed spread that isn't accurate, GREAT IDEA SO MUCH SKILL FROM RANDOM SPREAD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How would you compare this to Counter Strike? Full auto firing produces a mostly random spread in CS. Firing characteristics will vary from weapon to weapon, but it's not too far off from NS in full auto. In your defense, there does seem to be a lot of lucky spray'n'pray head shots in CS. I've always wondered if there was some kind of coding to make a bullet choose such a small target in such a large spread.
The first rally of shots in CS is pretty accurate. Recoil (something NS doesn't have) is also predictable in CS, and recoil is also correlated with spread. NS is a fixed spread that's consistently shooting, but CS is a precision shooter (accurate sniper rifles and rifles). There is a HUGE difference. NS is more about tracking your opponent and movement, CS is about precision aiming and positioning.
Post if you have a counter argument. I think mine is pretty solid.
<!--quoteo(post=1760955:date=Mar 23 2010, 09:20 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Mar 23 2010, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Post if you have a counter argument. I think mine is pretty solid.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Spray'n'Pray = Spray'n'Pray
Full auto spray while running in CS > full auto spray running in NS
This goes against the argument that you can't have head shots with spread because the "precision shooter" has more spread.
Wait, are you telling me you're suppose to play CS spray and pray? If you STAND STILL and CROUCH and play the game like a good person does, you know that the game is suppose to be about precision. You're an idiot if you're spraying and praying with an AWP or semiautomatic weapon. Also, you die in 4 normals hits, compare that to 8 lmg shots on a skulk and god knows how many on a fade. If you're really trying to tell me that by playing CS in a manner that's completely retarded and virtually skillless, you're argument is worthless. I'm seriously done with you, you lack comprehension of how a game is played and desperately trying to use spray and pray that no GOOD PLAYER does 99% of the time (spray is CONTROLLABLE IN CS except when running, and if you're getting shot at while you're running you're usually dead). Please, go play CS and spray and pray only, tell me how good you do compared to camping awpers, people who turn corners and instant headshot you, and 4 shot you despite all these problems with spread and everything. Go ahead and ignore me, everyone is ignoring you.
<!--quoteo(post=1760957:date=Mar 23 2010, 09:42 PM:name=brownymaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (brownymaster @ Mar 23 2010, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760957"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait, are you telling me you're suppose to play CS spray and pray? If you STAND STILL and CROUCH and play the game like a good person does, you know that the game is suppose to be about precision. You're an idiot if you're spraying and praying with an AWP or semiautomatic weapon. Also, you die in 4 normals hits, compare that to 8 lmg shots on a skulk and god knows how many on a fade. If you're really trying to tell me that by playing CS in a manner that's completely retarded and virtually skillless, you're argument is worthless. I'm seriously done with you, you lack comprehension of how a game is played and desperately trying to use spray and pray that no GOOD PLAYER does 99% of the time (spray is CONTROLLABLE IN CS except when running, and if you're getting shot at while you're running you're usually dead). Please, go play CS and spray and pray only, tell me how good you do compared to camping awpers, people who turn corners and instant headshot you, and 4 shot you despite all these problems with spread and everything. Go ahead and ignore me, everyone is ignoring you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No need for the hostility.
I agree that no good player spray and prays 99% of the time, but 99% of the players do it on CS with the M4 all the time. Besides, it doesn't matter how much people do it as much as the fact that it's commonly done.
It does take fewer hits to kill in CS, but the larger spread compensates for this a bit.
<!--quoteo(post=1760980:date=Mar 24 2010, 06:08 AM:name=Battle-Bug)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Battle-Bug @ Mar 24 2010, 06:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760980"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree that no good player spray and prays 99% of the time, but 99% of the players do it on CS with the M4 all the time. Besides, it doesn't matter how much people do it as much as the fact that it's commonly done.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, your argument is that the game designed around precision and accuracy isn't actually this way, because a large portion of it's playerbase has a lack of skill and chooses to spray and pray? That doesn't make least bit of sense to me, so you'll have to explain a little better than that.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So add headshots into a game that has a fixed spread that isn't accurate, GREAT IDEA SO MUCH SKILL FROM RANDOM SPREAD. Yeah, if you're 2 feet from a fade you can actually hit the head, but basically makes it so fades shouldn't go towards marine and should get a acid rocket like in NS1 as a primary and become lerkv2. Already there's a punishment that marines hit more shots the closer they are because of spread (except onos who have a huge hitbox big as an HMG/SG's spread).
I like my fades strong because for 50 res (unpooled res, unlike marines), they should be greater than a 25 res jetpack hmg and equal to two of them IN THEORY (no aimbot/godly aim, because a single jp hmg/sg can beat a fade if he's good). They're hardly overpowered anyways unless you're playing in a combat map with xmenu hunger permablink 1000 carapace. If you have great positioning, you can block a fade and destroy them in the .5 seconds they're stuck/have to path away. And we don't even know if fades will still be blinking the same way they do in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> More like two shotguns to the face or like 10 pistol bullets to the face and 20 lmg bullets in its back. Fade's cost should be adjusted to balance out their new life-expectancy. So instead of fades that live for ten minutes and cost five minutes to get the fifty res back, you have fades that live for two minutes and need that much to refade.
<!--quoteo(post=1761003:date=Mar 24 2010, 10:16 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Mar 24 2010, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>-snip-</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Please stop helencoptering over my excellent thread.
I wasn't attacking anytime/this thread, I'm attacking Battle-Bug trying to use an argument without acknowledging the fallacy behind his argument and continuing on.
First off, headshotting is still pretty much either luck at far range due to spread or extremely easy at close range (and even easier if you're jetpacker aiming from above when a fade comes in for an attack).
Also, why do we need to nerf fades and lower their status to leap skulks by making them last two minutes on average? Fades should be a high cost res and thus high powered alien. I don't know how the new res system will work, but I don't feel like we should make everything easier to kill just so that you can spam more of them and faster. I always considered fade to be a "tech" choice much like marines teching jetpacks or heavies; it's heavily delayed, but they become extremely useful. It also becomes more beneficial to let a better player take the role of a fade much like only giving the better player marine equipment; it's an investment in a player. Jetpacks can't be recovered, but guns can. Marines also can get reequiped after death quickly. Aliens can't recover anything and have to wait a long while to get back a fade (res or gestating time). I don't think fades deserve a nerf simply so that they can be spammed like marines can spam equipment. I like the separate gamestyles that you have to adapt to on each side.
Anyways, I'm probably just going to leave because it's not going to be added into the game. Just trying to present why not. Fades are amazingly powerful on good players and seem overpowered to many less skilled players. They don't deserve a nerf because of the reward of learning the high skill curve (probably the highest skill curve in the game, although not most useful), as great marines can still easily match them.
Incidentally, lol @ '<b>TEH SKILLLZZZZZ</b>' argument on page 1.
Best justification for idiotic gameplay features. Want to make an alien go faster using inexplicable leaping / gliding / rotating around in the air idiocy? ITS TEH SKILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Comments
It might already be nerfed by the gameplay changes
Because they are overpowered to make up for the alien weakness in the early game in NS1.
either that's a serious dose of sarcasm or you need to play with better marines.
Are you the renegade I've seen chilling near the bottom of the scoreboard on the <BAD> server? If so you need to stop posting ASAP, lest you make more of a giant fool of yourself. If you're a euro, I can safely assure you that euro fades are really bad compared to American fades.
Fades tank four shotgun volleys, so if you're dying as a fade before marines have JPHMGs, you are not a very good fade. That or your team just doesn't know how to parasite.
What can be done is that a 2x damage face hitbox can be added and the resource cost for fades can be drastically reduced. This would make fades less of a gamebreaker.
I think your problem generally resides in the "lrn2aim" category.
He's obviously a really bad troll.
I think your problem generally resides in the "lrn2aim" category.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've played since 1.04 so you can't possibly have played "a lot longer than I have." Why don't you go ahead and post your gaming resume here in this thread. What leagues have you played it? What have you won?
This thread is not a troll, I'm dead serious.
This thread is not a troll, I'm dead serious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is a nerd throwdown.
+1 Internets to you, good fellow.
Wow !
imma go and create an "anytime award"
Also, topic related, lock pls!
I like my fades strong because for 50 res (unpooled res, unlike marines), they should be greater than a 25 res jetpack hmg and equal to two of them IN THEORY (no aimbot/godly aim, because a single jp hmg/sg can beat a fade if he's good). They're hardly overpowered anyways unless you're playing in a combat map with xmenu hunger permablink 1000 carapace. If you have great positioning, you can block a fade and destroy them in the .5 seconds they're stuck/have to path away. And we don't even know if fades will still be blinking the same way they do in NS1.
How would you compare this to Counter Strike? Full auto firing produces a mostly random spread in CS. Firing characteristics will vary from weapon to weapon, but it's not too far off from NS in full auto. In your defense, there does seem to be a lot of lucky spray'n'pray head shots in CS. I've always wondered if there was some kind of coding to make a bullet choose such a small target in such a large spread.
Post if you have a counter argument. I think mine is pretty solid.
Spray'n'Pray = Spray'n'Pray
Full auto spray while running in CS > full auto spray running in NS
This goes against the argument that you can't have head shots with spread because the "precision shooter" has more spread.
No need for the hostility.
I agree that no good player spray and prays 99% of the time, but 99% of the players do it on CS with the M4 all the time. Besides, it doesn't matter how much people do it as much as the fact that it's commonly done.
It does take fewer hits to kill in CS, but the larger spread compensates for this a bit.
So, your argument is that the game designed around precision and accuracy isn't actually this way, because a large portion of it's playerbase has a lack of skill and chooses to spray and pray? That doesn't make least bit of sense to me, so you'll have to explain a little better than that.
I like my fades strong because for 50 res (unpooled res, unlike marines), they should be greater than a 25 res jetpack hmg and equal to two of them IN THEORY (no aimbot/godly aim, because a single jp hmg/sg can beat a fade if he's good). They're hardly overpowered anyways unless you're playing in a combat map with xmenu hunger permablink 1000 carapace. If you have great positioning, you can block a fade and destroy them in the .5 seconds they're stuck/have to path away. And we don't even know if fades will still be blinking the same way they do in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
More like two shotguns to the face or like 10 pistol bullets to the face and 20 lmg bullets in its back. Fade's cost should be adjusted to balance out their new life-expectancy. So instead of fades that live for ten minutes and cost five minutes to get the fifty res back, you have fades that live for two minutes and need that much to refade.
<!--quoteo(post=1761003:date=Mar 24 2010, 10:16 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Mar 24 2010, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1761003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>-snip-</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please stop helencoptering over my excellent thread.
First off, headshotting is still pretty much either luck at far range due to spread or extremely easy at close range (and even easier if you're jetpacker aiming from above when a fade comes in for an attack).
Also, why do we need to nerf fades and lower their status to leap skulks by making them last two minutes on average? Fades should be a high cost res and thus high powered alien. I don't know how the new res system will work, but I don't feel like we should make everything easier to kill just so that you can spam more of them and faster. I always considered fade to be a "tech" choice much like marines teching jetpacks or heavies; it's heavily delayed, but they become extremely useful. It also becomes more beneficial to let a better player take the role of a fade much like only giving the better player marine equipment; it's an investment in a player. Jetpacks can't be recovered, but guns can. Marines also can get reequiped after death quickly. Aliens can't recover anything and have to wait a long while to get back a fade (res or gestating time). I don't think fades deserve a nerf simply so that they can be spammed like marines can spam equipment. I like the separate gamestyles that you have to adapt to on each side.
Anyways, I'm probably just going to leave because it's not going to be added into the game. Just trying to present why not. Fades are amazingly powerful on good players and seem overpowered to many less skilled players. They don't deserve a nerf because of the reward of learning the high skill curve (probably the highest skill curve in the game, although not most useful), as great marines can still easily match them.
I concur
LOLOLOLZZZ!!!!! CS.
Incidentally, lol @ '<b>TEH SKILLLZZZZZ</b>' argument on page 1.
Best justification for idiotic gameplay features. Want to make an alien go faster using inexplicable leaping / gliding / rotating around in the air idiocy? ITS TEH SKILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ