Droppable Work Lights
FocusedWolf
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
Join Date: 2005-01-09 Member: 34258Members
This is an old idea, thats probably been reposted a million times. Tried to do some searching but i it was always a post in the middle of an unrelated twitter post. So making a new thread was the best choice.
As we know people are making very dark maps. What if the com could drop a work light to illuminate a base, that is in some dark area.
<img src="http://www.easychinasupply.com/user_upload/1187585240766.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Doesn't have to look like that but you get the idea. We can let aliens and marines knock them over and eventually destroy them somehow. I'm not sure if we should just let commanders be in control of where a work light is dropped, and eventually activated/built (like traditional marine structures), or if he (or a nearby) marine could have the power to push them around.
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15HO.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15g.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
While we're at it... this is the idea that's often reposted, but i think it's too epic not to post it one more time... Think it would be a big credit to the atmosphere of the game (and allow people to make even darker maps)... It would be nice to have some sort of chemical lights that people could throw about to light a dark hallway. Some twists on the idea is if an alien bites them, that they get stained with the glowy stuff for a some amount of time. I'd rather these things have like a 15-30 minute life (or simply unlimited glow time, so the engine doesn't need to keep tabs on all these timers, till an alien eventually destroys them).
Maybe some upper limit, so if you throw to many (either server limit or per player makes more sense), that your previous ones disappear.
The only problem is it's a serious performance issue if too many lights are used in the same area (and probably in total throughout the map... i.e. an engine limitation is possible), but the problem can be fixed (maybe) if instead of providing a point light that it's more like a diffused ambient light i.e. if you throw 300 light sticks in the corner, then just 1 really bright engine rendered light created that holds the sum of the brightnesses and colors. This is also more useful because chem lights have the appearance of just being self-illuminated so it would be nice if the room got brighter more so. It still would be cool if a thrown light stick flies like a moving light source, but i wouldn't care if these things are just dropped to the floor. Ya know it does seem epic if their's some animation where the marine pull it from a pocket (Pandorum movie reference), and maybe you have the choice of just walking with it in hand (forgetting about the flashlight, but we will need the feature for the secret rave rooms), and then a fire mode for throwing and alt fire for dropping. So use the flashlight when you want a gun out... damn that light undermines the whole epicness of throwable light sticks lol. Wait no it doesn't. The ability to illuminate a room and not just what's in front of you, does hold an advantage (same advantage as either using a flashlight, or flipping the light switch on for your room).
I don't think anyone has a problem with having different colored personal lights configurations? It might seem like a weird idea, but if i want a orange light stick, or blue, or green, or red, then it would be neat way to mark a location, or illuminate an on going battle.
Yes a map that has 0% built in lighting would be epic, and playable, now :P
As we know people are making very dark maps. What if the com could drop a work light to illuminate a base, that is in some dark area.
<img src="http://www.easychinasupply.com/user_upload/1187585240766.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Doesn't have to look like that but you get the idea. We can let aliens and marines knock them over and eventually destroy them somehow. I'm not sure if we should just let commanders be in control of where a work light is dropped, and eventually activated/built (like traditional marine structures), or if he (or a nearby) marine could have the power to push them around.
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15HO.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15b.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://www.extremeglow.com/Merchant4/graphics/00000001/15g.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
While we're at it... this is the idea that's often reposted, but i think it's too epic not to post it one more time... Think it would be a big credit to the atmosphere of the game (and allow people to make even darker maps)... It would be nice to have some sort of chemical lights that people could throw about to light a dark hallway. Some twists on the idea is if an alien bites them, that they get stained with the glowy stuff for a some amount of time. I'd rather these things have like a 15-30 minute life (or simply unlimited glow time, so the engine doesn't need to keep tabs on all these timers, till an alien eventually destroys them).
Maybe some upper limit, so if you throw to many (either server limit or per player makes more sense), that your previous ones disappear.
The only problem is it's a serious performance issue if too many lights are used in the same area (and probably in total throughout the map... i.e. an engine limitation is possible), but the problem can be fixed (maybe) if instead of providing a point light that it's more like a diffused ambient light i.e. if you throw 300 light sticks in the corner, then just 1 really bright engine rendered light created that holds the sum of the brightnesses and colors. This is also more useful because chem lights have the appearance of just being self-illuminated so it would be nice if the room got brighter more so. It still would be cool if a thrown light stick flies like a moving light source, but i wouldn't care if these things are just dropped to the floor. Ya know it does seem epic if their's some animation where the marine pull it from a pocket (Pandorum movie reference), and maybe you have the choice of just walking with it in hand (forgetting about the flashlight, but we will need the feature for the secret rave rooms), and then a fire mode for throwing and alt fire for dropping. So use the flashlight when you want a gun out... damn that light undermines the whole epicness of throwable light sticks lol. Wait no it doesn't. The ability to illuminate a room and not just what's in front of you, does hold an advantage (same advantage as either using a flashlight, or flipping the light switch on for your room).
I don't think anyone has a problem with having different colored personal lights configurations? It might seem like a weird idea, but if i want a orange light stick, or blue, or green, or red, then it would be neat way to mark a location, or illuminate an on going battle.
Yes a map that has 0% built in lighting would be epic, and playable, now :P
Comments
So, basically, what is the gameplay aspect of it?
Turning up the gamma way up is in my mind equal to cheating to some degree. I mean for the kharaa and especially the skulks, darkness and shadows are a part of your arsenal.
So on topic, at the cost of what one of these deployable lights or flaresticks might cost the marine would be able to brighten up an area substantially for a relatively long time. But outside of this I think he would have to rely on his flashlight.
That's my 2 cents on gamma adjustment and work lights. With UWE having develeoped such a kickass lighting system, why would anyone want to crank up the gamma and make it all bleed together anyways? :D
Yes and no. Yes because there does need to be a way to control overall brightness, no because you can still use your display controls to adjust the gamma.
On-topic, I'm reasonably certain official maps will have very uniform, visible, lighting.
I think the main reason is marines traditionally lacked the ability to add additional light to the level. But if we provide this feature, then broken space stations or ghost ships (with just some scant emergency lighting in some rooms) will be created. Another possibility is maps where the aliens can in some way "turn off the power" (Aliens reference lol) , and marines need to restore power (if permitted by the level). And places where only a few halls or rooms are dark, or maybe the lights are destroyable. Would be cool i think. :P
It's 100% realistic... i.e. the ability to provide light, if needed, because of the possibility there won't be any power on site. Would you just want a flashlight if you were in a room that could have aliens hiding in the corners? This is going to be an interesting fit with the game because the aliens have D.I. (and what if the spreading of D.I. blocked a rooms source of built in lighting), and the marines have the ability to bring light to the darkness? Possibly restore power to rooms. Setup defenses (i.e. tf spam). Provide security (marines can see what's hiding on the ceiling of a room, or far reaches of a room, which has been locked down). And use a flamethrower (additional source of light) to destroy the D.I, i.e. push back the "darkness" i.e. the alien teams conquest of the map (it makes total sense that that the D.I. should be a dark tunnel to hell, where aliens can see in the dark, and marines need to fight in it). The chem lights would be like the quick-deployable-but-less-light-offering solution, more so for providing light during battle quickly, and the commander droppable lighting is like the more permanent (but destroyable) light source. Something that fits in well with a base relocate, or dropped sequentially along the marines territories where light is lacking.
As far as gamplay the idea can be tweaked to fit in. At the very least technically speaking the droppable-commander-work-lights are 100% possible, can be tweaked to cost whatever, and there's the building time to get them operational (and any welder repair work needed due to alien attacks) and would definitely be useful and appreciated by the marines. That reveal video, when NS2 was voted indie game of the year, shows a marine start which is freekin dark... some of the equipment seems to have no lcds or light-sources/points-of-reference of any kind. The armory and rts have a few indicators, but ya the darkness is the ever present theme).
I do wonder at this point why marines don't have night vision goggles, but i think the answer is that these would totally make the darkness not a factor (or source of safety for the aliens). At least with the crappy chest-armor light, and ya the assistance of some chem lights + work-lights, that marines need to work for it, and are quickly threatened by the sudden loss of light.
NS maps might have been dim in places, but not so much that they actually impaired visibility. You'll notice how almost nobody uses their flashlights in vanilla maps. If NS2 maps are going to designed along similar lines, then illumination isn't likely to be a critical enough issue to necessitate field lighting. If there <i>are</i> dark areas on maps, Marines come standard with flashlights, and I'd imagine illumination would come from expanding the power grid rather than dropping temporary lighting.
Its a wonder to me also why marines dont have night vision but hey, its what the devs want. I guess it gives aliens an advantages thinking of it as their "turf"
I hope Marines get decent flashlights. I'm tired of the dim, circular ones that are just big enough to light up a skulk. I want high beams!
I don't see a problem with extra lighting. It is a tactic. You might ask "is lighting necessary?" and I'll ask "are sound effects necessary?"
Don't forget that whatever we devise should be destroyable by aliens. We aren't talking about permanent lighting solutions.
You could, but you'd be missing the point entirely.
Sound isn't just for aesthetics; it's a gameplay mechanic. You are expected to partially rely on hearing to locate your enemies. We have yet to see any indication that NS2 will use darkness in a similar manner. There were plenty of dim rooms in the original NS, but not to the point of obscuring your vision. How often do you actually see someone using their flashlight?
If the game was going to use darkness as a mechanic, then yes, drop lighting would probably be important. However, as far as we can tell, it does not, which means there is no need for spot lights.
Assuming we're getting maps similar to NS1, especially the later ones (NS_lucid), then I doubt we will have areas dark enough to warrant this. Well, except those brown/orange/green colored vents, but only skulks go in those, right?
I'd rather have lights, if required for a room, be weldables.
I think I get your point now. While the vanilla maps might not need this, it could still be included - or modded in - as an additional feature in the game rules for custom maps, which may have actual darkness as opposed to cosmetic one.
That might be pretty good indeed.
<!--quoteo(post=1757723:date=Mar 7 2010, 02:50 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Mar 7 2010, 02:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1757723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As far as gamplay the idea can be tweaked to fit in. At the very least technically speaking the droppable-commander-work-lights are 100% possible, can be tweaked to cost whatever, and there's the building time to get them operational (and any welder repair work needed due to alien attacks) and would definitely be useful and appreciated by the marines. That reveal video, when NS2 was voted indie game of the year, shows a marine start which is freekin dark... some of the equipment seems to have no lcds or light-sources/points-of-reference of any kind. The armory and rts have a few indicators, but ya the darkness is the ever present theme).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The gamma of the Alpha video was completely messed up (appeared to bright to me instead...), you can adjust that later on in-game. The lighting itself should be fairly uniform and visible, as aforementioned.
If the marines have super dim flashlights then the map makers will supply super-evenly-bright maps (so the marines can see)... and if the aliens can't see clearly in the dark then all bets are off... most every map will be 100% brightly lit (like the majority of NS1 maps). Thereby ignoring all the work that's been put into the engine for really cool lighting affects.
Of course it's pretty obvious someone will be making night vision goggles for NS2. Maybe even as a client side mod... of you can just set your monitor to super bright settings. Although the point of all this light producing equipment was to provide an acceptable alternative which also permitted dark maps to exist, which adds a challenge to the map.
If NS2 is anything like NS1, it won't be.
Then the aliens can destroy or the marines weld back up and it won't be exploited or waste of resources ("Why is the commander wasting 15 res on building 5 lights?")
That way the leveldesigner can create areas where it is a bit darker (if only for a few maps and on secondary routes).
Also it's pretty nice to have that kind of light anyway, I'm fairly sure it would really make the aliens pop out against their background and thus easier for people to track down (gamma-hacking not taken into account).
Then the aliens can destroy or the marines weld back up and it won't be exploited or waste of resources ("Why is the commander wasting 15 res on building 5 lights?")
That way the leveldesigner can create areas where it is a bit darker (if only for a few maps and on secondary routes).
Also it's pretty nice to have that kind of light anyway, I'm fairly sure it would really make the aliens pop out against their background and thus easier for people to track down (gamma-hacking not taken into account).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the aliens could also destroy the lights to be later welded again, that would be pretty cool. However, I'd prefer that only melee attacks be able to put out lights. Ranged attacks (especially splash damage) would make it too easy. Also, abilities like stomp can't break the glass.
I'll excuse the "plug" in the bottom right tripod leg, and the fact it's not really emitting serious light. It just looks so damn sexy.
<img src="http://i39.tinypic.com/2qkmc8o.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Spotlights can be deployed (like turrets) by the commander for rather low costs (compared to turrets)
Exact direction of the spotlight can be adjusted by marines on the ground (whoa, teamplay!)
<img src="http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/935/worklight1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Now when someone walks into the spotlight (facing the direction of light), his screen turns bright white for 2 seconds.
After that, assuming he is still inside the light cone, screen slowly fades to a black-white-grey vision (no colors), which simulates the adapting of the eyes. It is also necessary for gameplay reasons, otherwise marines could seal off long corridors too easily.
<img src="http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4153/worklight2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Hopefully it will not only add to gameplay, but also annoy all those gamma-cheaters, as they will experience the effect even longer.
If he moves out of the light cone, vision turns back to normal rather fast.
Pointing the spotlights at corridors or vents, could give marines a little advantage as everything that comes out of it, is temporarily blinded.
It will be even more effective in combination with turrets.
Of course spotlights are destroyable, just like turrets, and blinding effect should drop over distance.
On the technical side, most of this can already be achieved with the floodlight model, spotlights and color-gradings. Although for all the fency effects, it will require more than a static non-directional spherical color-grading.
the light structure is a great idea!
Unfortunately a lot of people like it (or maybe they saw the movie Pandorum). Either way with this idea the darkness/the-environment is an enemy just as much as the Aliens (with the glowing eyes that can barely hide in the dark anyway... but marines need to see nonetheless). Don't you realize now that because of the glow-in-the-dark-alien-eyes that there will be maps with 100% dark areas... lol. (yes marines have personal flashlights, but that's not as cool as having additional-glow-sticks and work lights!!!)
@Brute, i like how you turned the light into a type of weapon/turret. It seems infinitely!!! more useful then an entire farm of NS1 turrets lol. But it does result in a question... why (if super-bright-lights are so useful against the aliens) do the marines not have ultra-high-intensity lights on their weaponry. Although THAT could be something to put on the right-side rail of the current NS2 rifle :)
FLASHBANGS!!!! AND GRENADE-LAUNCHABLE-FLASHBANGS!!!!!!! xD Lets see you get away now fade!!! *fade, blind as hell, bounces off a wall and gets stuck in a corner*
Sorry! Tried to look for your posts but didn't find em in this thread (and i sort of got used to people disagreeing with me :P).
I even talked about water included maps(zomg yes, water included maps) and what the lights would do with the water