I feel a little conned
Beretta
Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19794Members
Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19794Members
Hi chaps,
Pefectly happy with the engine test and the fact i've pre ordered a special edition copy of the game, I would have pre ordered no matter what.
BUT!
why did you say you were going to release the game in autumn 2009 when there was, obviously to you, no chance of this? I mean, if we have a functioning engine now I take it we should be looking toward autumn 2010 for a release date at the earliest. If I were the sort to care more than this I would actually be offended by the fact you stated an autumn release in order to get the maximum money on preorders for a game that was nowhere near ready.
so yeah, honesty is the best policy and all that!
Pefectly happy with the engine test and the fact i've pre ordered a special edition copy of the game, I would have pre ordered no matter what.
BUT!
why did you say you were going to release the game in autumn 2009 when there was, obviously to you, no chance of this? I mean, if we have a functioning engine now I take it we should be looking toward autumn 2010 for a release date at the earliest. If I were the sort to care more than this I would actually be offended by the fact you stated an autumn release in order to get the maximum money on preorders for a game that was nowhere near ready.
so yeah, honesty is the best policy and all that!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
So now the release has been put forward because they have more money to throw around to make the game better and making the game better takes time.
So now the release has been put forward because they have more money to throw around to make the game better and making the game better takes time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nice theory, might even be true, but please don't pass it off as fact.
The sad reality is that release windows slip by. Sometimes it's because of unforseen setbacks in development, sometimes it's because the window was set by someone without all the right information at their disposal. The best game developers don't set hard release dates.
--Scythe--
Your statements of feeling offended are certainly valid. I'm sure that i heard way back in the begining they had to scrap the original engine over some legal issues. now they could have filed bankrupt on it then and walked away but they stood ground and did the honorable thing..... "made it happen" even when the deck was stacked and to make up for that they are giving everyone total access to the game engine itself not to mention LUA and decoda.
When is the last time you bought a game from a big developer (uhhhuummm...bli---zz---a---r---d--) that gave you anything other than a game, no goodies just a un-modable venilla game.
I personally have followed the updates from the start and have been disapointed but for me i never felt i was decieved.
"LIFE HAPPENS"
The sad reality is that release windows slip by. Sometimes it's because of unforseen setbacks in development, sometimes it's because the window was set by someone without all the right information at their disposal. The best game developers don't set hard release dates.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you talking about <b>Scythe</b>? This was the story Charlie told us back on <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/10ns_7th_anniversary_progress_and_first_ns2_screenshots" target="_blank">Halloween</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=UWE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UWE)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As most of you know, we've been planning on releasing NS2 in some playable form this Fall. Back in May, we thought that if the game wasn't done, at least it would be ready to play in an alpha or beta state at the very least. We wish we still thought that was true, but now we realize it isn't happening.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=UWE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (UWE)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The great thing about the pre-orders is that they have allowed us to hire another programmer (although it took some time to find the right person) and he will help tremendously. I imagine there will be some significant relief and stress-reduction for Max to know that not quite everything is resting on his shoulders any more. Pre-orders have also allowed us to put the Heavy/Exoskeleton into the game, which was previously cut. We were also thinking seriously of cutting Dynamic Infestation but luckily we averted that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I sympathize with your quest to cut down on misinformation, but this "theory" is straight from UWE.
I feel that- even for an indie company- opening up pre-orders that early was a bit excessive: we didn't just pre-order the game, we funded it. Had I known I was spending my cash on a game that wouldn't be out for 12-18 months I certainly wouldn't have payed for it back then.
If you really feel so aggrieved, just ask for your money back rather than whining at the forums.
I stuggle with this so much after being told it over and over again. How long will it take you to create this little system?? ah what, that will take me about 20 minutes... as I go along I get enthusiastic and features just get bigger and bigger... ideas cause my project to double, triple, quadruple and just balloon! An extremely late project in my opinion is a good one! You can tell that the developers are enthusiastic about implementing NEW and GREAT things! :P
I would like to pre-order... I probably will in the end but I feel like waiting until there is more to see... like gameplay :P
UWE should reconsider their approach of such situations in the future. I'm definitely far more reclutant to preorder their games in the future unless NS2 turns out to be absolutely pure gold in terms of gameplay. I still hugely respect them for creating NS1, but the extra bit of faith and patience I had with UWE compared to the vast majority of developers has been falling apart slowly since fall 2009.
I've got no clue what's actually going on with the development and I could totally wrong on my estimates on progress, but I still feel UWE has some things to learn about communicating with the community. It's not an easy task and it's impossible to please everyone, but I often feel that things could've been done in a little different manner for better (or at least different) results. It's extremely easy to comment afterwards and without actually having to do anything myself, but a little bit of reconsideration and possible learning from mistakes never hurts. For example the fall 2009 was just hanging around forever and it was already past it before we got an announcement of postponing. Dropping some pretty dramatical changes and features in twitter without any explanation has stirred up some unnecessary negative drama too.
And it is.
Congratulations, you're the 100th butthurt pre-orderer to come to the forums complaining about release dates when you can easily get a refund if you feel so slighted.
EDIT:
<!--quoteo(post=1765746:date=Apr 11 2010, 03:18 AM:name=Beretta)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Beretta @ Apr 11 2010, 03:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765746"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so yeah, honesty is the best policy and all that!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE has since cleared the air on exactly why the game has been delayed and I think with all the stuff they've shown us and everything we've got our hands on, they've been very honest and forthcoming. It wasn't as if they were being malicious and deceitful with their release date; it was just a bit ambitious.
For a lot of us we've waited years for NS2 and the early release date probably gave false hope. But you have to remember that for the UWE developers, this is their life. If NS2 meets lackluster reviews or isn't successful we may not see UWE around to make a second game. When it's your life and the financial security of your new company on the line I'd say it's okay to make a couple of hundred forum goers temporarily upset in exchange for releasing the game you actually wanted to release from the start.
That's just awful reasoning. You think that another developer "making" vapourware allows an unrelated team to delay their product?
Crazy.
So, you may feel disappointed, you may feel your hopes were not met, you may even accuse them of failing to make their goals.. but to accuse of of conning you out of your money is very harsh IMO.
Crazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all. I think sh*t happens and UWE isn't the first developer to have delays.
Crazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's get a more realistic example then, Splinter Cell: Conviction is the 5th of the series and done by Ubisoft. They still delayed it by, what, 3 or so years? And now it looks like a very complete game.
gives a release date, its just a rough estimate. But from what i see so far, it looks very close to completion so I wouldn't worry too much about it
Also Look at Blizzard. Diablo 3 was set to be released in Q4 2009. Now its TBA 2011. Why? No clue lol (it better be a good game for 7 years worth of work XD).
I doubt that many people are disappointed about them taking their time to make it a good game. At least I'm mostly annoyed by how they advertised the fall 2009 and sticked to it for a long time, while now it sometimes seems they never were even close to that schedule.
For example I had a client come into my office not 2 hours ago and have a go at me because his project has taken 3 weeks longer than expected. Granted, he has a right to be upset but it has been through no fault of my own nor my employee's. Things like this just happen sometimes.
Do not lose any confidence in the devs just because they're human.
By the way, any word on donations? I'd love to further support my favorite independent developer.
For example I had a client come into my office not 2 hours ago and have a go at me because his project has taken 3 weeks longer than expected. Granted, he has a right to be upset but it has been through no fault of my own nor my employee's. Things like this just happen sometimes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least I'm mostly asking for them to go this through and learn from it. There's reason for every delay. Sometimes those can be avoided, sometimes those can be predicted, sometimes it's even a good idea to explain why you're not delivering and how long it will take. It's never 100% confidence, but you can still learn.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do not lose any confidence in the devs just because they're human.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm a student, no way running any commercial business. Every spring I'm heavily struggling with my allergies and still I'm expected to meet the same study quotas as everyone else in the whole tech uni to get my study support from the state. It's not nice (altough having the monetary support in the first place is extremely nice), it's not sometimes even realistic to demand me to reach the quotas, but when there's money involved you just have to meet the expectations. That's just how it goes.
When UWE started the preorders, they kinda went into that. With money becomes responsibility. Everyone preordered is indirectly paying for them doing this, so failing to meet the expectations creates critique. I guess the refund backdoor is open, but at least I don't want to go there unless I really have to. That serves no good for UWE or me in the longer run.
The delays don't bug me, as long as I'm not hanging with a false sense of hope. I'd rather them push the game back x years and tell me than lead me to believe it could be sooner.
Anyway, preordered the game last year in May and I'm excited as hell... gimme that black armor.