<!--quoteo(post=1765873:date=Apr 11 2010, 04:28 PM:name=Denuviate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denuviate @ Apr 11 2010, 04:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765873"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When I pre-ordered NS2 there was nothing about having to install and run a third party spyware program.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't worry you won't, Steam isn't spyware and calling it that just shows your ignorance.
It has been well known now that NS2 would be using steam and when the pre-ordered first started it was heavily rumoured that it would be using steam.
However, I am fairly sure that when it is out in final you will be able to use it in offline mode like with any other steam game. But, that seems incredibly pointless for a game like NS2.
Edit: I can understand not liking steam for various other reason but, not liking it due to it being 'spyware' is well....
<!--quoteo(post=1765900:date=Apr 11 2010, 11:48 AM:name=korvo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korvo @ Apr 11 2010, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly not this. With steam they have taken my right to play the game I have payed for!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm just curious as to why you hate Steam. You haven't given any evidence besides "I hate Steam so I can't play NS2 or do the engine test"
korvoJoin Date: 2009-11-19Member: 69427Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1765903:date=Apr 11 2010, 06:51 PM:name=Bry)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bry @ Apr 11 2010, 06:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has been well known now that NS2 would be using steam and when the pre-ordered first started it was heavily rumoured that it would be using steam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can preorder NS2 longer than it is known that they will use steam... check history...
My system meets and surpasses the requirements, but on Range #1, at some spots, it lags and in most of the map is rough and stuttery and laggy. System specs:
Single Core CPU
AMD Anthlon 64 Proccessor
Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT
Integrated RAMDAC
Windows home ed. build 2600
So, any ideas?
UPDATE: I now will recieve the following message when I try running Range #2.
<insert texture name here> failed to create - Out of video memory.
My card has 256 MB of space, and Range 1 runs fine, albeit with a bit of lag. Any ideas?
<!--quoteo(post=1765891:date=Apr 11 2010, 12:36 PM:name=Nyf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nyf @ Apr 11 2010, 12:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765891"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why do you people hate Steam so much? What have they ever done to you besides provide you easy access to tons of games, often at discounted prices? I'm glad NS2 will be on Steam because it makes it easier to keep track of who of my friends is playing it as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I wonder how many of the people who hate Steam were there when they took it out of Beta and it went from a viable platform to completely useless. Valve had planned on shutting down the Won.net servers shortly after it launched, but it went so badly Won.net stayed up for 10 extra months so that people could keep playing the HL1 games.
Or how many remember once they had finally stabilized the HL1 engine games on Steam, and they shut down won.net, they completely broke the Messenger functionality and it took over a year for them to repair. And to date it still doesn't have all the feature it once did (you used to be able to play Chess, Checkers, and Go with your Messenger Friends).
Or when they released the pre-load files for HL2 and the entire system was brought to its knees and then had issue after issue until well after launch.
Or that time there were storms in Oregon/Washington and the entire service went down cause it turns out they had no redundancy in their data centers (at the time, this reportedly has been fixed).
Or the fact that its a giant DRM system that is centrally controlled and that when it gets shutdown someday there will probably be no way to reclaim all your purchases without breaking at least some copyright laws (especially the DMCA), at least in the United States.
I say all this, and I <b>love</b> Steam as a platform. I own 115 games (holy crap when'd that happen) on it, including a whole bunch of games I own on CD and re-purchased on Steam for the convenience factor. But honestly there are a lot of reasons to hate the thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1765910:date=Apr 11 2010, 07:57 PM:name=Seateller2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Seateller2 @ Apr 11 2010, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765910"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My system meets and surpasses the requirements, but on Range #1, at some spots, it lags and in most of the map is rough and stuttery and laggy. System specs:
Single Core CPU
AMD Anthlon 64 Proccessor
Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT
Integrated RAMDAC
Windows home ed. build 2600
So, any ideas?
UPDATE: I now will recieve the following message when I try running Range #2.
<insert texture name here> failed to create - Out of video memory.
My card has 256 MB of space. Any ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How much RAM do you have?
<!--quoteo(post=1765874:date=Apr 11 2010, 05:31 PM:name=qwiggalo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (qwiggalo @ Apr 11 2010, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Get ready to be disappointed.
While I happily give away all my gaming details to Evil-Valve so they can use to sell to evil corporations and begin to take over the world one hour of game time at a time. It's ok though, I won't be alive by the time their evil world domination plan comes to light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I assume that was an attempt to ridicule me by implying that I think that people and corporations are out to get me. I am not paranoid nor do I think that Valve is evil, I just don't want to give them my private information just for playing a game made by another company. Much in the same way you probably don't want to describe to me your bowel movements. Not because you think I will take over the world, but because it is none of my business. The difference with Valve is that they make money off my private information. In itself knowing my gaming habits is innocuous, but when you add all the other ways companies and governments collect information about you it paints a very clear picture of who you are as a person. The less information you give away freely, the more secure you are.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a> <a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.
<!--quoteo(post=1765915:date=Apr 11 2010, 02:09 PM:name=Denuviate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denuviate @ Apr 11 2010, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume that was an attempt to ridicule me by implying that I think that people and corporations are out to get me. I am not paranoid nor do I think that Valve is evil, I just don't want to give them my private information just for playing a game made by another company. Much in the same way you probably don't want to describe to me your bowel movements. Not because you think I will take over the world, but because it is none of my business. The difference with Valve is that they make money off my private information. In itself knowing my gaming habits is innocuous, but when you add all the other ways companies and governments collect information about you it paints a very clear picture of who you are as a person. The less information you give away freely, the more secure you are.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a> <a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1765915:date=Apr 11 2010, 07:09 PM:name=Denuviate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denuviate @ Apr 11 2010, 07:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume that was an attempt to ridicule me by implying that I think that people and corporations are out to get me. I am not paranoid nor do I think that Valve is evil, I just don't want to give them my private information just for playing a game made by another company. Much in the same way you probably don't want to describe to me your bowel movements. Not because you think I will take over the world, but because it is none of my business. The difference with Valve is that they make money off my private information. In itself knowing my gaming habits is innocuous, but when you add all the other ways companies and governments collect information about you it paints a very clear picture of who you are as a person. The less information you give away freely, the more secure you are.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a> <a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And I bet you google everyday omg
I like steam, but it has its downs like anything els. One is the price is silly high for game to buy when i can get them for half price (not new game, doh they are still cheaper as retails. Buying a game on steam is like buying a new PS3(console) game for me in SEK.). Time to time i cant start games for offline play single/lan game if i dont have internet.
But the community, achievements and stats are fun to follow (doh some games you like to have hush hush on.)
2.
Just a few minor buggs i found so far. But there are a few spots that make a big drop in FPS.
Full settings on:
1920x1080 (full hd/1080p)
ATI Radeon HD4850 (48??) 512mb 3.6gHz CPU, Intel P4 250GBx2 HDD WinXP SP3 (Swedish languange, was preinstalled. prefer english) Dont now soundcard atm, will check that.
Pfft, it's just a survey that you're required(?) to complete, but they make it so that you don't have to answer all the questions yourself. People are lazy, they appreciate this.
<!--quoteo(post=1765915:date=Apr 11 2010, 02:09 PM:name=Denuviate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denuviate @ Apr 11 2010, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I assume that was an attempt to ridicule me by implying that I think that people and corporations are out to get me. I am not paranoid nor do I think that Valve is evil, I just don't want to give them my private information just for playing a game made by another company. Much in the same way you probably don't want to describe to me your bowel movements. Not because you think I will take over the world, but because it is none of my business. The difference with Valve is that they make money off my private information. In itself knowing my gaming habits is innocuous, but when you add all the other ways companies and governments collect information about you it paints a very clear picture of who you are as a person. The less information you give away freely, the more secure you are.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a> <a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you didn't give out your information to Paypal purchase this game?
<!--quoteo(post=1765900:date=Apr 12 2010, 01:48 AM:name=korvo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korvo @ Apr 12 2010, 01:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765900"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1st: Show them a photo of your Original CD+Cover 2nd: Give them your original key.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So why couldn't you? So long as you have a child's level of common sense, Steam is a damn good service.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1765849:date=Apr 11 2010, 04:12 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Apr 11 2010, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765849"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the graphics are fantastic- they look as if they're hand-painted backgrounds: smooth and lots of colour.
Hope optimising is planned, though: game runs like a dog when I look up at a roof with loads of vents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just a note to the non-programmer types out there. There's school of thought in software design that says that you should delay optimization until you have close to a complete design in place. I won't go into the reasoning behind this too much, what I will offer is my own experiences. I've tried various iterations of spark over the last year and the advances in engine performance in the last month have been huge. I was getting 10fps on max settings a few weeks ago and now I get 40fps and I'm sure a lot more will come. Max has a hugely complex piece of code to wrestle with on a daily basis and it is absolutely important that his algorithms are correct first and then later he can make them faster. I've also had some experience debugging the guys code ( he did the skulk model rotation code for NS back in the day, and the associated hitscanning code that went into 3.0 ) and at the risk of sounding like a fanboy, the guy writes exceptionally elegant and clean code and I have absolute confidence that the performance issues you are seeing now are well within his abilities to find and fix.
From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization</a> <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Premature optimization" is a phrase used to describe a situation where a programmer lets performance considerations affect the design of a piece of code. This can result in a design that is not as clean as it could have been or code that is incorrect, because the code is complicated by the optimization and the programmer is distracted by optimizing.
An alternative approach is to design first, code from the design and then profile/benchmark the resulting code to see which parts should be optimized. A simple and elegant design is often easier to optimize at this stage, and profiling may reveal unexpected performance problems that would not have been addressed by premature optimization.
In practice, it is often necessary to keep performance goals in mind when first designing software, but the programmer balances the goals of design and optimization.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed with Puzl. The guys at Rebellion showed us a Beta of their PS3 version just a few weeks before release. It ran like a dog, about 10fps. Then the released code is at least playable.
UWE and Max have done a great job getting 40+fps out of a pre-alpha engine, with all the normal current-gen technologies. Great stuff. The only thing I'm waiting on is Culling in the Spark Editor.
<!--quoteo(post=1765906:date=Apr 12 2010, 03:54 AM:name=korvo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korvo @ Apr 12 2010, 03:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can preorder NS2 longer than it is known that they will use steam... check history...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The stance always has been 'we want to, but can't confirm the game will be on steam until Valve get back to us'. And I guess they finally got back to UWE.
<!--quoteo(post=1766168:date=Apr 12 2010, 04:06 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Apr 12 2010, 04:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just a note to the non-programmer types out there. There's school of thought in software design that says that you should delay optimization until you have close to a complete design in place. I won't go into the reasoning behind this too much, what I will offer is my own experiences. I've tried various iterations of spark over the last year and the advances in engine performance in the last month have been huge. I was getting 10fps on max settings a few weeks ago and now I get 40fps and I'm sure a lot more will come. Max has a hugely complex piece of code to wrestle with on a daily basis and it is absolutely important that his algorithms are correct first and then later he can make them faster. I've also had some experience debugging the guys code ( he did the skulk model rotation code for NS back in the day, and the associated hitscanning code that went into 3.0 ) and at the risk of sounding like a fanboy, the guy writes exceptionally elegant and clean code and I have absolute confidence that the performance issues you are seeing now are well within his abilities to find and fix.
From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hadn't really thought about that yet, but it makes sense: The number one priority is getting the thing working, THEN you can start making it faster. My minimum FPS has been around 50 or so, and to think that it's going to run better and better (and <i>look</i> better and better) in the future is exciting. I think for an engine test, we got something great. Now the developers have to deal with 10,000 people giving their expert opinion on everything :D
Hey my names Jordan, I play as <BAD> cute little gorgey on ns1. I am running on an Alienware m15x-r1. 2gb ddr2, 160gb hard drive, radeon 3870m 512mb dedicated mem, core2duo 2.2ghz, resolution @ 1920x1200. I noticed some chopping around especially at the beginning of the boot up, I've got a few screen shots of buggy areas, it's kinda funny when you jump up and go through gates and get stuck in the ceiling lol. But anyways, crouch wouldn't work sadly, couldnt go check out the awesome vents from the pre-alpha video you guys posted up a month or so ago so that was kinda dissapointing. Otherwise it eventually ran smooth and made me even more excited for this fantastic games release! Ns1 is still holding it's own though, I play every night on the <BAD> clan server 2. You guys have done an amazing job, anything I can assist you with please let me know. My steam name is cute little gorgey.
Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I think most everyone working on NS2 has read most or all of the posts in this thread and on the forums and we appreciate it.
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
<!--quoteo(post=1766317:date=Apr 12 2010, 01:27 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Apr 12 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I think most everyone working on NS2 has read most or all of the posts in this thread and on the forums and we appreciate it.
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any idea on SLI implementation for the game? I know SLI works in the editor, but for some reason does not so well in the game (flickering, performance slows, and skipping).
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1766317:date=Apr 12 2010, 02:27 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Apr 12 2010, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I think most everyone working on NS2 has read most or all of the posts in this thread and on the forums and we appreciate it.
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Will you guys be releasing incremental updates for the test engine as a sort of pre-alpha optimization period, or will you be concentrating your efforts on the alpha right away? Updates to the test engine won't be at odds with the promise of the alpha test, as the alpha would be the implemented and filled out version... nobody is complaining :).
<!--quoteo(post=1766317:date=Apr 12 2010, 10:27 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Apr 12 2010, 10:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I think most everyone working on NS2 has read most or all of the posts in this thread and on the forums and we appreciate it.
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just wanna say UWE you are so amazing, you tiny company did such a great engine and the game will be awesome too. If i open your tool Viewer.exe its so great, so fluent, no crashes (i didnt get one ^^) and it loads so fast. By the way the animations of the skulk are sweet, love it. And the features like "view-> Camera" are very usefull. Only the game need to be good now, because the engine looks like ^^ I don´t know the netcode but i hope this too.
<!--quoteo(post=1766317:date=Apr 12 2010, 11:27 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Apr 12 2010, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. I think most everyone working on NS2 has read most or all of the posts in this thread and on the forums and we appreciate it.
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell yes! As much as I want to play it already, take your time and make it the best you can. Thanks for the update.
<!--quoteo(post=1765158:date=Apr 10 2010, 02:44 AM:name=olisis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (olisis @ Apr 10 2010, 02:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I get the same exact problem with a nVidia 9600 gt. It seems to happen when I look at certain areas. Like spawning into range 2, I can't look at the first set of stairs or my computer completely freezes and have to restart it. Though sometimes I can alt-tab/close ns2 before it happens if I'm super quick.
Usually can't play for more than a few seconds but the most I played was about 38 secs before I saw something wrong. Did get to shoot some dummies though, that was cool. Tried in High/Medium/Terrible graphics options, no difference there. Haven't tried in windows mode or a lower resolution. If it somehow works doing that, I'll make an addendum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, sorry about the lateness, I meant to add this yesterday but got sidetracked. Everything works flawlessly in windowed mode. I can look at everything, spin the mouse, shoot, etc without any crashing in 1920/1080 and high graphics. So it's just full screen that's the problem.
And thank you guys so much for allowing us to test the engine. Really means a lot to me and I'm sure it means a lot to the rest of us.
Great work. FPS is not great but that's expected for engine test. I like the menu system, all in all a very good package.
I'm waiting eagerly for future engine updates ... and API docs! In any case the LUA API / Flash interface is a very solid base for mods and game-making. Not to mention the on-the-fly nature of everything from game code to maps. All games should be made like this.
Comments
Don't worry you won't, Steam isn't spyware and calling it that just shows your ignorance.
It has been well known now that NS2 would be using steam and when the pre-ordered first started it was heavily rumoured that it would be using steam.
However, I am fairly sure that when it is out in final you will be able to use it in offline mode like with any other steam game. But, that seems incredibly pointless for a game like NS2.
Edit: I can understand not liking steam for various other reason but, not liking it due to it being 'spyware' is well....
I'm just curious as to why you hate Steam. You haven't given any evidence besides "I hate Steam so I can't play NS2 or do the engine test"
You can preorder NS2 longer than it is known that they will use steam... check history...
Single Core CPU
AMD Anthlon 64 Proccessor
Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT
Integrated RAMDAC
Windows home ed. build 2600
So, any ideas?
UPDATE: I now will recieve the following message when I try running Range #2.
<insert texture name here> failed to create - Out of video memory.
My card has 256 MB of space, and Range 1 runs fine, albeit with a bit of lag. Any ideas?
Or how many remember once they had finally stabilized the HL1 engine games on Steam, and they shut down won.net, they completely broke the Messenger functionality and it took over a year for them to repair. And to date it still doesn't have all the feature it once did (you used to be able to play Chess, Checkers, and Go with your Messenger Friends).
Or when they released the pre-load files for HL2 and the entire system was brought to its knees and then had issue after issue until well after launch.
Or that time there were storms in Oregon/Washington and the entire service went down cause it turns out they had no redundancy in their data centers (at the time, this reportedly has been fixed).
Or the fact that its a giant DRM system that is centrally controlled and that when it gets shutdown someday there will probably be no way to reclaim all your purchases without breaking at least some copyright laws (especially the DMCA), at least in the United States.
I say all this, and I <b>love</b> Steam as a platform. I own 115 games (holy crap when'd that happen) on it, including a whole bunch of games I own on CD and re-purchased on Steam for the convenience factor. But honestly there are a lot of reasons to hate the thing.
Single Core CPU
AMD Anthlon 64 Proccessor
Nvidia Geforce 7600 GT
Integrated RAMDAC
Windows home ed. build 2600
So, any ideas?
UPDATE: I now will recieve the following message when I try running Range #2.
<insert texture name here> failed to create - Out of video memory.
My card has 256 MB of space. Any ideas?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How much RAM do you have?
While I happily give away all my gaming details to Evil-Valve so they can use to sell to evil corporations and begin to take over the world one hour of game time at a time. It's ok though, I won't be alive by the time their evil world domination plan comes to light.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I assume that was an attempt to ridicule me by implying that I think that people and corporations are out to get me. I am not paranoid nor do I think that Valve is evil, I just don't want to give them my private information just for playing a game made by another company. Much in the same way you probably don't want to describe to me your bowel movements. Not because you think I will take over the world, but because it is none of my business. The difference with Valve is that they make money off my private information. In itself knowing my gaming habits is innocuous, but when you add all the other ways companies and governments collect information about you it paints a very clear picture of who you are as a person. The less information you give away freely, the more secure you are.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a>
<a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a>
<a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://meltyourfaceoff.files.wordpress.com/2007/10/tin-foil-hat.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a>
<a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I bet you google everyday omg
1. For steam (my personal thoughts)
I like steam, but it has its downs like anything els. One is the price is silly high for game to buy when i can get them for half price (not new game, doh they are still cheaper as retails. Buying a game on steam is like buying a new PS3(console) game for me in SEK.). Time to time i cant start games for offline play single/lan game if i dont have internet.
But the community, achievements and stats are fun to follow (doh some games you like to have hush hush on.)
2.
Just a few minor buggs i found so far. But there are a few spots that make a big drop in FPS.
Full settings on:
1920x1080 (full hd/1080p)
ATI Radeon HD4850 (48??) 512mb
3.6gHz CPU, Intel P4
250GBx2 HDD
WinXP SP3 (Swedish languange, was preinstalled. prefer english)
Dont now soundcard atm, will check that.
Two interesting links from eff.org
<a href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/01/primer-information-theory-and-privacy" target="_blank">Only three pieces of information is required to identify you</a>
<a href="https://panopticlick.eff.org/" target="_blank">How unique is your browser signature?</a>
If I don't have to give away my personal information, I try not to. In the same way that I try not to tell strangers on the town where I live and when I won't be at home. It's just common sense.
I also don't think that Flayra and UWE is eeevil because they want me to use steam. They probably just haven't thought about privacy and the power of information and how easily it can be misused. Not many have as of yet. It will, however, probably be more of an issue within a few years since data collection is constantly being expanded. Even "anonymized" data can be identifiable as we saw in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_search_data_scandal" target="_blank">AOL seach data scandal (wikipedia)</a>
But anyway, I am looking forward to the game and I hope I will be able to play it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you didn't give out your information to Paypal purchase this game?
Saying you give your information to x so why not give to y is a pretty silly conclusion.
anyway... I got my console to work!
So why couldn't you? So long as you have a child's level of common sense, Steam is a damn good service.
Bite my shiny metal hat! :D
Hope optimising is planned, though: game runs like a dog when I look up at a roof with loads of vents.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just a note to the non-programmer types out there. There's school of thought in software design that says that you should delay optimization until you have close to a complete design in place. I won't go into the reasoning behind this too much, what I will offer is my own experiences. I've tried various iterations of spark over the last year and the advances in engine performance in the last month have been huge. I was getting 10fps on max settings a few weeks ago and now I get 40fps and I'm sure a lot more will come. Max has a hugely complex piece of code to wrestle with on a daily basis and it is absolutely important that his algorithms are correct first and then later he can make them faster. I've also had some experience debugging the guys code ( he did the skulk model rotation code for NS back in the day, and the associated hitscanning code that went into 3.0 ) and at the risk of sounding like a fanboy, the guy writes exceptionally elegant and clean code and I have absolute confidence that the performance issues you are seeing now are well within his abilities to find and fix.
From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization</a>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Premature optimization" is a phrase used to describe a situation where a programmer lets performance considerations affect the design of a piece of code. This can result in a design that is not as clean as it could have been or code that is incorrect, because the code is complicated by the optimization and the programmer is distracted by optimizing.
An alternative approach is to design first, code from the design and then profile/benchmark the resulting code to see which parts should be optimized. A simple and elegant design is often easier to optimize at this stage, and profiling may reveal unexpected performance problems that would not have been addressed by premature optimization.
In practice, it is often necessary to keep performance goals in mind when first designing software, but the programmer balances the goals of design and optimization.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
UWE and Max have done a great job getting 40+fps out of a pre-alpha engine, with all the normal current-gen technologies. Great stuff. The only thing I'm waiting on is Culling in the Spark Editor.
The stance always has been 'we want to, but can't confirm the game will be on steam until Valve get back to us'. And I guess they finally got back to UWE.
From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Program_optimization</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hadn't really thought about that yet, but it makes sense: The number one priority is getting the thing working, THEN you can start making it faster. My minimum FPS has been around 50 or so, and to think that it's going to run better and better (and <i>look</i> better and better) in the future is exciting. I think for an engine test, we got something great. Now the developers have to deal with 10,000 people giving their expert opinion on everything :D
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any idea on SLI implementation for the game? I know SLI works in the editor, but for some reason does not so well in the game (flickering, performance slows, and skipping).
Also, great job!!!
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Will you guys be releasing incremental updates for the test engine as a sort of pre-alpha optimization period, or will you be concentrating your efforts on the alpha right away? Updates to the test engine won't be at odds with the promise of the alpha test, as the alpha would be the implemented and filled out version... nobody is complaining :).
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Noooooooo.... YOU GUYS ROCK.
If i open your tool Viewer.exe its so great, so fluent, no crashes (i didnt get one ^^) and it loads so fast.
By the way the animations of the skulk are sweet, love it.
And the features like "view-> Camera" are very usefull.
Only the game need to be good now, because the engine looks like ^^
I don´t know the netcode but i hope this too.
Friday was a big deal for us. We never set out to write our own engine but decided to do so to make NS2 the game it deserved to be. It has meant that the game has taken longer and been a LOT more work, but I think in the end we're all going to be much happier with it. We've made a lot of progress on the tech and the game recently and being able to give you even a small glimpse of it is very satisfying for us. The fact that you guys are ALREADY modding the game is also wicked. A big company or AAA-funded game probably wouldn't have been able to do this!
Now we have a great baseline to build off of, just like we had with the editor a few months ago. That had some issues initially but we were able to address them faster and more efficiently with your help. It's so much better to get some feedback now then to wait until it's too late to fix anything! We really appreciate your kind words, good will and patience while we continue working to get NS2 running and playing beautifully just as quickly as we can.
You guys rock!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell yes! As much as I want to play it already, take your time and make it the best you can. Thanks for the update.
Usually can't play for more than a few seconds but the most I played was about 38 secs before I saw something wrong. Did get to shoot some dummies though, that was cool. Tried in High/Medium/Terrible graphics options, no difference there. Haven't tried in windows mode or a lower resolution. If it somehow works doing that, I'll make an addendum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, sorry about the lateness, I meant to add this yesterday but got sidetracked. Everything works flawlessly in windowed mode. I can look at everything, spin the mouse, shoot, etc without any crashing in 1920/1080 and high graphics. So it's just full screen that's the problem.
And thank you guys so much for allowing us to test the engine. Really means a lot to me and I'm sure it means a lot to the rest of us.
I'm waiting eagerly for future engine updates ... and API docs! In any case the LUA API / Flash interface is a very solid base for mods and game-making. Not to mention the on-the-fly nature of everything from game code to maps. All games should be made like this.