<!--quoteo(post=1766148:date=Apr 12 2010, 07:02 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Apr 12 2010, 07:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766148"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You have no point to make here other than to exacerbate the issue. They get it already. Anyway, missing deadlines is part of the creative process, expecting creative brilliance on time is foolish indolence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, I guess there isn't much left to discuss. Like I said, UWE still has my support all the way. It just slighltly buggers me off when somewhat reasonable critisism gets shut down without people properly going through it. I mean, we go most of these same discussions through the millionth time, but that's roughly all we've got until the actual game gets out.
Edit: Oh yeah and just to repeat: I'm trying to be critical because I want to provoke discussion and learn the ins and outs of these things. I've still got huge respect for UWE, but the last thing I want from forums is people completely agreeing with each other or being unnecessary merciful towards anything that we could learn from. Sometimes I may be overly aggressive on these discussions, but that's more just my style of playing things out over the Internet rather than personal disliking towards anyone or anything.
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
I really cannot believe months after this has been beaten to death, another topic like this comes up. And we all know how this goes. People complain... people defend.... people complain.... people defend. Get over it already.
<!--quoteo(post=1765791:date=Apr 11 2010, 01:10 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Apr 11 2010, 01:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are you talking about <b>Scythe</b>? This was the story Charlie told us back on <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/10ns_7th_anniversary_progress_and_first_ns2_screenshots" target="_blank">Halloween</a>.
I sympathize with your quest to cut down on misinformation, but this "theory" is straight from UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think somewhere between the two is more correct.
It wasn't ready by any stretch of the imagination in autumn, and it would have been delayed anyway, however preorders have allowed more content to be put in and seeing as they have a full team, the artists might as well do some more work while the programmers are finishing up the game code, or vice versa, or neither and work needs doing in both areas.
Game took longer than they thought, and now they're aiming to include more content as well as make the game playable.
Leastways that's how I interpreted it.<!--quoteo(post=1766131:date=Apr 12 2010, 06:27 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Apr 12 2010, 06:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a student, no way running any commercial business. Every spring I'm heavily struggling with my allergies and still I'm expected to meet the same study quotas as everyone else in the whole tech uni to get my study support from the state. It's not nice (altough having the monetary support in the first place is extremely nice), it's not sometimes even realistic to demand me to reach the quotas, but when there's money involved you just have to meet the expectations. That's just how it goes.
When UWE started the preorders, they kinda went into that. With money becomes responsibility. Everyone preordered is indirectly paying for them doing this, so failing to meet the expectations creates critique. I guess the refund backdoor is open, but at least I don't want to go there unless I really have to. That serves no good for UWE or me in the longer run.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When it comes to software development it's a bit different from student stuff.
There's a ridiculous amount of work involved from lots of people who probably don't have much common ground in their skills. It takes a lot of management even to make a project work, let alone make it work on time, getting that right first time is extremely improbable.
What usually happens according to all the ex-industry people at my university is that for several months prior to release everyone ends up working like 16 hours a day to get the project done on time, because if they miss the marketing window the entire game loses masses of money.
As I don't think UWE is working that heavily with a publisher and the game isn't being hugely advertised they can afford to be a bit more loose with deadlines, although obviously sooner is better and they have to finish it before money runs out.
So I wouldn't be too surprised when they don't keep deadlines quite as strictly as AAA big publisher titles, because it isn't really neccesary like it is for them. Whether it's excusable is up to everyone to decide individually, but it is predictable that problems will occur.
I never knew they delayed to increase quality after all the pre-orders. Makes me even more excited. It is a little upsetting having to wait more but I think it will be well worth it.
<!--quoteo(post=1766369:date=Apr 12 2010, 01:26 PM:name=NeurotiqMime)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeurotiqMime @ Apr 12 2010, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766369"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I never knew they delayed to increase quality after all the pre-orders. Makes me even more excited. It is a little upsetting having to wait more but I think it will be well worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm glad they delayed it further. Imagine how everyone would feel if UW suddenly had the resources to make NS2 more spectacular but instead caved into pressure and released a sub-par game on schedule.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
Stuff happens- in this case the stuff was enough funding to actually make the game with high quality assets. I think at the time they had a basic engine, the knowledge to get a basic game together from the parts, and a relatively short window to make it happen. Rather than say "screw it" they decided to go for it and were shocked by the bank they made from the preorders. With that money, priorities changed... It was quite a gamble, but the interest and the money have since allowed for them to really bankroll the process and the operation must have changed quite dramatically. Obviously the calculations were way too optimistic, but I think the delays have been far more to do with the change in what NS2 would actually be than anything else.
In hindsight the preorder was extremely audacious, but could they have generated the same investment had they put up an "invest in ns2" website? Perhaps if they worded it right, I mean the community already donated a lot for ns1, but it is likely that without the preorder an ns2 worthy of being a successor to ns1 wouldn't have happened.
I say let it all be. It looks like we will get a real NS2 and that isn't so bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1765940:date=Apr 11 2010, 02:22 PM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Apr 11 2010, 02:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765940"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A game released on time, unfinished, is a greater injustice than a game released finished but late.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
/thread Tons of major developers have wound up having to delay major titles. Zelda. Half-life. Diablo. Starcraft. All of them have been smash hits thus far (I have no doubts that Blizzard's titles will continue to sell well)
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1766384:date=Apr 12 2010, 04:59 PM:name=Deadzone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Deadzone @ Apr 12 2010, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->/thread Tons of major developers have wound up having to delay major titles. Zelda. Half-life. Diablo. Starcraft. All of them have been smash hits thus far (I have no doubts that Blizzard's titles will continue to sell well)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly... and let us not forget that if this were done by EA (or many others) we would be paying for a lerk DLC, onos DLC, dynamic infestation DLC, etc... rather than actually getting a finished game.
<!--quoteo(post=1766387:date=Apr 12 2010, 05:05 PM:name=CyberMantis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyberMantis @ Apr 12 2010, 05:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766387"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly... and let us not forget that if this were done by EA (or many others) we would be paying for a lerk DLC, onos DLC, dynamic infestation DLC, etc... rather than actually getting a finished game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Get this guy a cookie, cause well he's right. Don't for get the Belly Slide DLC $25.00. Which I would so totally buy.
<!--quoteo(post=1766391:date=Apr 12 2010, 10:20 PM:name=SatanLovesYOu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SatanLovesYOu @ Apr 12 2010, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766391"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Get this guy a cookie, cause well he's right. Don't for get the Belly Slide DLC $25.00. Which I would so totally buy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Yeah, I guess there isn't much left to discuss. Like I said, UWE still has my support all the way. It just slighltly buggers me off when somewhat reasonable critisism gets shut down without people properly going through it. I mean, we go most of these same discussions through the millionth time, but that's roughly all we've got until the actual game gets out.
Edit: Oh yeah and just to repeat: I'm trying to be critical because I want to provoke discussion and learn the ins and outs of these things. I've still got huge respect for UWE, but the last thing I want from forums is people completely agreeing with each other or being unnecessary merciful towards anything that we could learn from. Sometimes I may be overly aggressive on these discussions, but that's more just my style of playing things out over the Internet rather than personal disliking towards anyone or anything.
I sympathize with your quest to cut down on misinformation, but this "theory" is straight from UWE.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think somewhere between the two is more correct.
It wasn't ready by any stretch of the imagination in autumn, and it would have been delayed anyway, however preorders have allowed more content to be put in and seeing as they have a full team, the artists might as well do some more work while the programmers are finishing up the game code, or vice versa, or neither and work needs doing in both areas.
Game took longer than they thought, and now they're aiming to include more content as well as make the game playable.
Leastways that's how I interpreted it.<!--quoteo(post=1766131:date=Apr 12 2010, 06:27 AM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Apr 12 2010, 06:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm a student, no way running any commercial business. Every spring I'm heavily struggling with my allergies and still I'm expected to meet the same study quotas as everyone else in the whole tech uni to get my study support from the state. It's not nice (altough having the monetary support in the first place is extremely nice), it's not sometimes even realistic to demand me to reach the quotas, but when there's money involved you just have to meet the expectations. That's just how it goes.
When UWE started the preorders, they kinda went into that. With money becomes responsibility. Everyone preordered is indirectly paying for them doing this, so failing to meet the expectations creates critique. I guess the refund backdoor is open, but at least I don't want to go there unless I really have to. That serves no good for UWE or me in the longer run.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When it comes to software development it's a bit different from student stuff.
There's a ridiculous amount of work involved from lots of people who probably don't have much common ground in their skills. It takes a lot of management even to make a project work, let alone make it work on time, getting that right first time is extremely improbable.
What usually happens according to all the ex-industry people at my university is that for several months prior to release everyone ends up working like 16 hours a day to get the project done on time, because if they miss the marketing window the entire game loses masses of money.
As I don't think UWE is working that heavily with a publisher and the game isn't being hugely advertised they can afford to be a bit more loose with deadlines, although obviously sooner is better and they have to finish it before money runs out.
So I wouldn't be too surprised when they don't keep deadlines quite as strictly as AAA big publisher titles, because it isn't really neccesary like it is for them. Whether it's excusable is up to everyone to decide individually, but it is predictable that problems will occur.
Will be doing this today.
I'm glad they delayed it further. Imagine how everyone would feel if UW suddenly had the resources to make NS2 more spectacular but instead caved into pressure and released a sub-par game on schedule.
I can see their dilemma.
In hindsight the preorder was extremely audacious, but could they have generated the same investment had they put up an "invest in ns2" website? Perhaps if they worded it right, I mean the community already donated a lot for ns1, but it is likely that without the preorder an ns2 worthy of being a successor to ns1 wouldn't have happened.
I say let it all be. It looks like we will get a real NS2 and that isn't so bad.
/thread
Tons of major developers have wound up having to delay major titles. Zelda. Half-life. Diablo. Starcraft. All of them have been smash hits thus far (I have no doubts that Blizzard's titles will continue to sell well)
Tons of major developers have wound up having to delay major titles. Zelda. Half-life. Diablo. Starcraft. All of them have been smash hits thus far (I have no doubts that Blizzard's titles will continue to sell well)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly... and let us not forget that if this were done by EA (or many others) we would be paying for a lerk DLC, onos DLC, dynamic infestation DLC, etc... rather than actually getting a finished game.
Get this guy a cookie, cause well he's right. Don't for get the Belly Slide DLC $25.00. Which I would so totally buy.
Me Too!!