<!--quoteo(post=1766149:date=Apr 12 2010, 05:02 PM:name=johhny d)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johhny d @ Apr 12 2010, 05:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766149"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as for me, i'm very happy about ns2, not bad test to see what engine can do and what to expect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you two are agreeing with each other - The guy you quoted was saying the Engine Test as a game is crap - because it isn't a game. Re-read his post, because it seems you're replying with big red text saying the very same thing he was...
I do agree that the Engine test shouldn't be released to the public (even though I'm not in it). Letting people see the "game" in this state would be like going out to give a speech half-dressed.
<!--quoteo(post=1766112:date=Apr 11 2010, 11:11 PM:name=ctd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ctd @ Apr 11 2010, 11:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766112"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't need hard evidence to know that a lot of gamers don't buy games without testing it out first, whether that is from a demo or free weekend doesn't matter. Gamers are cheap-arses naturally. I will also say Killing Floor is a more accessible and popular style of game - zombie co-op.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the flip side, you have Tripwire's other game: Red Orchestra. It's about on Par with Killing Floor in terms of sales. It's certainly nothing like Killing Floor.
And remember, UWE are designing NS2 to become "more accessible" to new players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bad Company 2 and AVP - two very high profile games. BC2 is currently the top seller on steam and they had a very popular and fun demo even when you take into account the server browser issues. AVP had a very unsuccessful demo due to no dedicated server software, clunky console style feel to the game and a terrible lobby system. AvP's life is over already. BC2 is going strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to think BC2 is going strong because it is a good game, and that AVP's done because it wasn't so much of one.
No dedicated servers? None until MARCH. Clunky console style? In the game. Terrible lobby system? In the game.
Essentially, AVP's life was over because the demo clearly reflected how the game was going to be like.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would a battlefield style single map MP demo with limited in-game upgrades be bad for ns2? You could even do it like Valve do for L4D and shut down the demo say 2 weeks after the full game has been released. After that rely on free weekends and steam specials.
Anyway I just hope this game turns out to be a solid title, a worthy sequel, and that people actually buy it. NS1 had the benefit of being a mod for the most popular game ever at the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be frank, what I take issue with is that part where you characterize game development with a gross generalization. Just because NS2 will not have a demo does not mean that it will have terrible sales. There is no hardlined result of the decision to make no demo.
As you've already said, there are plenty of free weekends to hand out.
Preorder and play the beta as a demo when it comes out, if you don't like it then ask for a refund. This isn't a hard concept. Only reason I haven't preordered is I want something I can play that is a little further then this.
Let's be realistic guys, UWE does not have the manpower, time, or resources to create a stripped down MP demo to provide for people pre-release. There will be an alpha and a beta for pre-orders, and it's a 20 dollar game. This isn't a 50-60 dollar product. I am POSITIVE you'll see steam FREE WEEKEND deals in the future, but if you are expecting something on release it's very very doubtful.
There will be hype generated with the beta when it comes out, and NS has always been a word of mouth game, i'm sure with steam support it will continue on that trend. Think ala TF2.
<!--quoteo(post=1766204:date=Apr 12 2010, 08:25 AM:name=Whiteblade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Whiteblade @ Apr 12 2010, 08:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Preorder and play the beta as a demo when it comes out, if you don't like it then ask for a refund. This isn't a hard concept. Only reason I haven't preordered is I want something I can play that is a little further then this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless UW feels like handling all potential refunds, the pre-orderers canot get a refund since Valve and Steamworks will (typically) not give refunds for games purchased. So, unless UW tells us they will honor refunds (and I haven't looked for it since I need to pay off the car repairs before considering a pre-purchase), a pre-purchase is final.
<!--quoteo(post=1767159:date=Apr 15 2010, 04:06 PM:name=Crazyperson4200)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crazyperson4200 @ Apr 15 2010, 04:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless UW feels like handling all potential refunds, the pre-orderers canot get a refund since Valve and Steamworks will (typically) not give refunds for games purchased. So, unless UW tells us they will honor refunds (and I haven't looked for it since I need to pay off the car repairs before considering a pre-purchase), a pre-purchase is final.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not true. UWE has and always will offer pre-order refunds when purchasing through their store via paypal. If you purchase through Steam once it's available (as stated, roughly 1 month before OFFICIAL release) you will be unable to get a refund because Steam does not offer them. However, all UWE pre-orders will be activated through steam at release.
So if you want to purchase NS2 now, you will be garaunteed a refund if you don't like the product up until release.
I personally wouldn't give a refund on someone who has actually used the product in it's pre-alpha state, as you did sign up to say that is what you were agreeing to. Issuing a refund in my eyes after saying "Oh it sucks after this alpha/beta", is just bad practice by the consumer not by the vendor.
<!--quoteo(post=1767159:date=Apr 15 2010, 02:06 PM:name=Crazyperson4200)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crazyperson4200 @ Apr 15 2010, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless UW feels like handling all potential refunds, the pre-orderers canot get a refund since Valve and Steamworks will (typically) not give refunds for games purchased. So, unless UW tells us they will honor refunds (and I haven't looked for it since I need to pay off the car repairs before considering a pre-purchase), a pre-purchase is final.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was able to get a refund for the standard edition so I could upgrade to SE. IIRC, you are able to obtain a refund from UWE without much trouble.
I don't really know but I'm guessing most developers don't even release anything to the "public" unless its a very playable beta at least. If even they give somthing out before the release date.
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<!--quoteo(post=1766287:date=Apr 12 2010, 04:50 AM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Apr 12 2010, 04:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766287"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's be realistic guys, UWE does not have the manpower, time, or resources to create a stripped down MP demo to provide for people pre-release. There will be an alpha and a beta for pre-orders, and it's a 20 dollar game. This isn't a 50-60 dollar product. I am POSITIVE you'll see steam FREE WEEKEND deals in the future, but if you are expecting something on release it's very very doubtful.
There will be hype generated with the beta when it comes out, and NS has always been a word of mouth game, i'm sure with steam support it will continue on that trend. Think ala TF2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's an excellent idea. Alot of people follow the Steam's weekend deals, and since it's a MP game, it doesnt dillute it's value by playing it 2 days.
<!--quoteo(post=1767165:date=Apr 15 2010, 04:25 PM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Apr 15 2010, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is not true. UWE has and always will offer pre-order refunds when purchasing through their store via paypal. If you purchase through Steam once it's available (as stated, roughly 1 month before OFFICIAL release) you will be unable to get a refund because Steam does not offer them. However, all UWE pre-orders will be activated through steam at release.
So if you want to purchase NS2 now, you will be garaunteed a refund if you don't like the product up until release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This wasn't so much harping against UW as it was just trying to acknowledge that there are certain things that UW needs to do if pre-purchasers are allowed to get refunds. Like I stated, I need to get the car fixed before considering pre-purchasing so I didn't look at the fine print of possibly getting a refund.
But thanks for pointing out there is a refund service to those who are ignorant, like me. :-)
<!--quoteo(post=1767170:date=Apr 15 2010, 11:38 PM:name=fex905)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fex905 @ Apr 15 2010, 11:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767170"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really know but I'm guessing most developers don't even release anything to the "public" unless its a very playable beta at least. If even they give somthing out before the release date.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well most developers tend to release their betas as official releases (most of them even fail to fix the basic problems before their game is already dead again) and I just know thi will not be the case with NS2, because you can basically feel the love the devs put into their game :)
My friend let me try it on my computer and I have to say it looks nice so far. Not counting the stutter I had when looking towards large rooms (even large rooms that weren't in FOV but behind the scene, probably rendering parts of the level obscured by the room I was currently in) it ran decently on my rig on high, even while firing. It looks promising!!
<!--quoteo(post=1766108:date=Apr 12 2010, 01:26 PM:name=Heyman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heyman @ Apr 12 2010, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're basing this off what evidence?
Take a look at a few Indie games. Killing Floor, for example. Tripwire Interactive never released a demo for the game. In fact, what they did was make the full game, and then released it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong.
killing floor was a free unreal tournament 2k3 mod. that was enough demo for me to know later that i do not like that game <.<
it can work the other way around aswell..
"play natural selection! free half life mod! you are right, its friggen awesome ! gives you this tingly feeling down in the pants! now look at this.. NS2! check out the screenshots! check out the features!
you want it?
of course you do! you´ve seen UWE is capable to pull off a fun and thrilling game! preorder naow!
Comments
I think you two are agreeing with each other - The guy you quoted was saying the Engine Test as a game is crap - because it isn't a game.
Re-read his post, because it seems you're replying with big red text saying the very same thing he was...
On the flip side, you have Tripwire's other game: Red Orchestra. It's about on Par with Killing Floor in terms of sales. It's certainly nothing like Killing Floor.
And remember, UWE are designing NS2 to become "more accessible" to new players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bad Company 2 and AVP - two very high profile games. BC2 is currently the top seller on steam and they had a very popular and fun demo even when you take into account the server browser issues. AVP had a very unsuccessful demo due to no dedicated server software, clunky console style feel to the game and a terrible lobby system. AvP's life is over already. BC2 is going strong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to think BC2 is going strong because it is a good game, and that AVP's done because it wasn't so much of one.
No dedicated servers? None until MARCH.
Clunky console style? In the game.
Terrible lobby system? In the game.
Essentially, AVP's life was over because the demo clearly reflected how the game was going to be like.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would a battlefield style single map MP demo with limited in-game upgrades be bad for ns2? You could even do it like Valve do for L4D and shut down the demo say 2 weeks after the full game has been released. After that rely on free weekends and steam specials.
Anyway I just hope this game turns out to be a solid title, a worthy sequel, and that people actually buy it. NS1 had the benefit of being a mod for the most popular game ever at the time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be frank, what I take issue with is that part where you characterize game development with a gross generalization. Just because NS2 will not have a demo does not mean that it will have terrible sales. There is no hardlined result of the decision to make no demo.
As you've already said, there are plenty of free weekends to hand out.
There will be hype generated with the beta when it comes out, and NS has always been a word of mouth game, i'm sure with steam support it will continue on that trend. Think ala TF2.
Unless UW feels like handling all potential refunds, the pre-orderers canot get a refund since Valve and Steamworks will (typically) not give refunds for games purchased. So, unless UW tells us they will honor refunds (and I haven't looked for it since I need to pay off the car repairs before considering a pre-purchase), a pre-purchase is final.
This is not true. UWE has and always will offer pre-order refunds when purchasing through their store via paypal. If you purchase through Steam once it's available (as stated, roughly 1 month before OFFICIAL release) you will be unable to get a refund because Steam does not offer them. However, all UWE pre-orders will be activated through steam at release.
So if you want to purchase NS2 now, you will be garaunteed a refund if you don't like the product up until release.
I was able to get a refund for the standard edition so I could upgrade to SE. IIRC, you are able to obtain a refund from UWE without much trouble.
There will be hype generated with the beta when it comes out, and NS has always been a word of mouth game, i'm sure with steam support it will continue on that trend. Think ala TF2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's an excellent idea. Alot of people follow the Steam's weekend deals, and since it's a MP game, it doesnt dillute it's value by playing it 2 days.
So if you want to purchase NS2 now, you will be garaunteed a refund if you don't like the product up until release.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This wasn't so much harping against UW as it was just trying to acknowledge that there are certain things that UW needs to do if pre-purchasers are allowed to get refunds. Like I stated, I need to get the car fixed before considering pre-purchasing so I didn't look at the fine print of possibly getting a refund.
But thanks for pointing out there is a refund service to those who are ignorant, like me. :-)
Well most developers tend to release their betas as official releases (most of them even fail to fix the basic problems before their game is already dead again) and I just know thi will not be the case with NS2, because you can basically feel the love the devs put into their game :)
Take a look at a few Indie games. Killing Floor, for example. Tripwire Interactive never released a demo for the game. In fact, what they did was make the full game, and then released it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong.
killing floor was a free unreal tournament 2k3 mod. that was enough demo for me to know later that i do not like that game <.<
it can work the other way around aswell..
"play natural selection!
free half life mod!
you are right, its friggen awesome !
gives you this tingly feeling down in the pants!
now look at this.. NS2!
check out the screenshots!
check out the features!
you want it?
of course you do!
you´ve seen UWE is capable to pull off a fun and thrilling game!
preorder naow!
btw..do you ..like.. sudoku?"