I dislike replying to long topics as the end posts rarely get read, but I shall anyway.
I play more often than not on a passworded server, so yes, I do have to put up with less llamas than those that play on publics. This however doesn't mean I haven't had people camping after all hives are down.
The behaviour of people that think they can ruin a game for everyone is childish and annoying yes, though to be honest, I think I'd rather put up with somone doing that every once in a while that instant death because of a rush.
A lot of the replies are about "Aliens can't make a comeback if the marines are half decent because they will have sieged every hive and have best upgrades". Fair enough, I agree. The problem is thats not when most of these marine rushes happen. Most of these rushes happen as soon as the marines have their LMG's stocked up. I've seen 3 defeats as alien so far within 10 minutes of a start. (Not too many, as I said I play on a passworded server so most players aren't too bad.)
The thing is, a marine can take out a hive with pretty much a full LMG and a pistol clip (I don't have the exact stats, but I believe that to be roughly correct as I have taken out a hive alone before with only starting weapons). So 3 or 4 marines can take one out fast.
Again, I don't know the exact figures of an aliens starting resources, but after evolving to gorge, I do know it is nowhere near enough to build another hive with.
The arguements for this timer are pretty simple: The skulks should stop the marines getting into that hive. The gorges should build lots of offence towers. Marines had to put up with skulk rushes all this time before.
Well, the arguements against these:
"The skulks should stop the marines getting into that hive."
NOTE: I don't want to get off of the point here into an arguement about default marines vs Skulk balance, I believe they are balanced, but I do need to explain some of my opinions about them.
Skulks <b>will</b> stop most marines getting to a hive, but a well coordinated marine squad (Read: sticking together) will still break through. A skulks advantage is stealth, while a marines is teamwork and range. A skulk can hide on a ceiling and drop on the first marine that walks underneath and though that marine may die, it is likely that his teammates that are following will avenge his death. Anyhow, the point is that with a squad that works together, they will get into the first hive on most occasions if they try hard enough. With more than one marine in that hive, they have no doubt taken out all skulks along the way. Now, aliens spawn one by one. A group of one or more marines versus a single skulk that has just reincarnated in the middle of the floor a few feet ahead of them....not much of an opposition. I have seriously been killed by a couple marines with LMG's after spawning, before I could even move, never mind get close enough to kill them or run away. (Running away is not an option when you're only hive is about to die and begin the death countdown) And since we covered how easily a hive can be killed by 1 or more marines with no defence, we don't really need to cover the rest. Combine this with a commander dropping endless supplies of health packs and ammo packs (plenty of resources since there was no need to build turrets or observatory or anything at base) and the aliens are good as dead.
"The gorges should build lots of offence towers."
As someone said earlier, it only takes a squad of marines a minute to get to a hive (2-3 if you include building a couple of infantry portals) I've never timed it, but I'd guess it takes a lot longer for a gorge to build enough defence to keep marines out of the hive room. I don't ever remember a time where I have been able to evolve to gorge <b>straight</b> after round starts and have enough RP leftover to build anything. Of course, the solution to this is don't evolve straight away, skulk for a while. Which of course makes this arguement "The gorges should build lots of offence towers." invalid anyhow, as I am discussing early round rushes.
"Marines had to put up with skulk rushes all this time before."
Now this is the arguement I have most problems with, the previous 2 do actually work on occasion. Don't get me wrong, it isn't impossible to prevent marine rushes, just difficult. Now, marines do have had to put up with skulk rushes, yes. They can be quite annoying. So a skulk rush was effective and your command chair is being chomped on, you quickly place a backup CC for that hiding marine in an empty hive to build. Now since all the skulks rushed marine spawn, none are even near this guy, nor do they know where he is. He has a chance to make a comeback. I <b>have</b> seen maries make comebacks like this on many occasion. Now put the marines in the situation that the aliens are in, as soon as that hiding guy starts building the backup CC, the first is lost. Countdown begins and he dies. Annoying...
An even worse scenario, the marines only Inf Portal and CC are taken down due to an effective skulk rush. Marines have no chance to make a comeback. The few surviving marines are in the enemy hive and start firing. Once the hive is down, the aliens all die.
Now, do not get me wrong, the above examples do not happen often but they DO happen. I don't like llamas camping in vents, but I think the timer spoils the balance. I would rather see no timer at all, but I should at least like to see one for marines if their only complete CC is lost. (Placing another CC to be built wouldn't matter since aliens cannot rebuild a hive) At the end of the day, marines have every chance to camp too.
If an alien camps after all hives are down, it is not the end of the game. Get the comm to equip marines with jetpacks and/or GL's and use scanner sweep.
I think an alternate option to the countdown should either be: Make it a server variable so that the admin can decide if there is a countdown after all hives are lost. Replace the countdown with anti camp code. If an alien (or marine) doesnt move for X minutes, kill it. Afterall, even though an alien may be hiding above a doorway, it would still move occasionally. Then of course aliens may try to move every couple of minutes to bypass the anti camp code, but then of course he shows on the motion tracking.
There are other possibilities instead of the timer which leave possibilities of comeback. I like the team vote suggestion, much like the vote out commander, but to end game if all hives are down.
So a quick conclusion of my post. The end game timer only causes a marine rush tactic which leaves no chance of comeback if successful unlike skulk rush. It is the beginning game rushes that cause most frustration, losing all hives after a long game doesn't matter so much. Even at end game though, there is no need for a timer because marines should have all/many upgrades and track down and kill lone aliens easily. If a prevention to camping must be included, think over other alternatives as suggested throughout this thread.
I've bumped it once so I'll bump it again- an end-game vote is far better a concept than this tension-killing hive-loss degeneration. If your team seriosuly couldn't find a lone "camping" skulk, the commander cleary has no concept of scanner-sweep guys; at the tail end of the game I usually had plenty of res to spare to find a singe alien for the rest of my team to righteously splatter. Unless this was to be implemented for the marines too (which I wouldn't do), I really think it needs to go...
The new feature is really good ! If Marines loose the comm chair and their inf portals they loose. Aliens simply had to build a new hive if they lost one. Now they have to protect their hive as the marines have to protect the Comm and the inf portals. This makes the game more interesting and a bit harder for the aliens! If the aliens loose their 30000 !! HP hive and are unable to rescue it, why should they have a chance to have a comeback? Its still much easier for the aliens to win as it is for the marines. The HP-loose with 0 Hives is very good !!
I hate the auto-kill thing, I mean there has been times where we have had lots of resource points, our first hive gets killed due to a marine-phase gate rush, we have gorges traveling to BOTH the other hives, and they get killed due to the auto-kill, one of the gorges had enuff for a hive and the other almost had enuff too. and I've seen such things turning into wins for aliens in 1.02, so it annoys me how it is impossible now. I mean, if the marines realise they have lost thier comm chair and infantry spawns, if a marine survives and the commander has placed another cc to be built elsewhere, the marine can then build them and make a come back, sure this isnt as easy as a alien comeback as the marines are slower and more cumbersome, but it is still possible, albiet VERY unlikely. but aliens are meant to be more skilled fighters, and marines are meant to rely on thier structures, it makes sense for aliens to more easily come-back.
I'm interested now about how the resource distribution goes when all 3 hives are down. Is it still continued as normal, or is much of the resources being dumped straight into the gorge?
The game was 1.02, and when I said built the hives in 2-3 minutes I didn't mean create, I meant finish. I thought maybe the gorge got insane resources for not having a hive anymore, I dunno.
For sake of carrying the story of the game further though, it makes some since. Without a hive, maybe the bacterium gives up on this location and consumes it's offspring.
I just know I don't like it.
If nothing else it should be a server variable that can be changed.
sv_nohivedamage (damage per tick dealt to aliens, 0 to disable)
This seems like something that was added in for tournament play to speed up games so two halves could be played in a night.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
It wasn't added four tournament mode; clan games, in my experience, seldom last longer than half an hour per round. It was added to prevent lamers from hiding in vents at end-game.
Personally, I think it's an unfortunate but probably necessary addition; I know of a few spots I could hide for a LONG time before being found. But I would like to see the timer extended slightly; 2-5 minutes after the hive is destroyed, perhaps.
just my 2 cents here, if their is a gorge on the team, the gorge should have 5 minutes to build a hive, if he cant construct within that time limit, then make it automatically kill him, (all skulks still have same dieing rate if last hive is lost. <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think at least a couple minutes should be added to the timer... the Marine rush is much harder to defend against (given good marines) than the skulk rush (given good skulks). But that's just me. *shrug*
Edit: Marines with JPs hiding are a much bigger problem than Skulks as well IMHO. Marines can sweep for campers... Aliens don't have such luxuries.
The no hive kill rule makes marines more than happy to kill hives. As a commander, I have sent 2 marines to go "rambo" on a hive (they were both my best players). We took out their hives, and then proceeded to take back everything the aliens had covered.. The aliens had rebuilt one hive, but I quickly had that one squished again. Soon after, all 3 hives had defenses at them (meaning no skulk in his right mind could possibly dent them) and it was all a matter of "find the def node with the last 2 aliens."
This makes the kharaa turn into alien bait if they're not super-duper careful.. and any comm with 2 guys with half a brain can distract the aliens (usually almost all of them) at one point, and then rape their hives (mm, jetpack welder) while they weren't looking. But the same is pretty much true for good aliens, being able to sneak past turrets.. provided no marine dies, the comm is screwed, and the same for aliens (if you die, you *have* to respawn at a hive. I don't know if it's still true that you can't respawn while your hive is under attack, though.
[edit] oh, but as long as the motion tracker upgrade doesn't work right (all the time) I think this upgrade should stay (finding aliens is @#$% hard to do when the only thing the marines see are the hives) [/edit]
How are you guys rushing the aliens? The hive location is random, so you should be wrong most of the time. I know there are some commander audio problems, those will be fixed for the next release. I assume if these are fixed, it will be quite risky for the marines to rush.
Flayra, once you make an infantry portal the next step is a Observatory and an Armory, load all your guys up, scan the hive. Tell them and waypoint them to the hive location or tell them on in game chat if they know the map, once they get their, make a square of health and a few ammo packs, and its over that fast, but if their was no countdown, a gorge could have ran and saved and built at the farthest away hive. :/ Happened a lot in 1.01/1.02 and aliens would come back. With a countdown, even if he does get a hive started before he dies, the countdown would stop and they would begin scanning again, find the hive and destroy it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How are you guys rushing the aliens? The hive location is random, so you should be wrong most of the time. I know there are some commander audio problems, those will be fixed for the next release. I assume if these are fixed, it will be quite risky for the marines to rush. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well actually you can tell where it is by hovering over the hive locations and looking for the squish sound. Maybe something to look into if you want it to take a bit to find the hive.
However, and I don't know how many times I have to retell this story, WE WON A GAME AFTER ALL 3 HIVES WERE DOWN FOR AT LEAST 3 MINUTES!! IT JUST TAKES DEFENSE TOWERS!! I'll link the freaking thing again so you get the point! And we won another game where we were down to zero hives and kept alive just by keeping a hive in building mode.
The change is good. Pub aliens actually have to worry more about losing their hives, it gives marines a chance to counter-rush if the aliens lose a lot in their rush, and if all the hives are down, the marines will know that the remaining aliens are camping near defense towers.
COMEBACKS ARE NOT DEAD! QUIT WHINING!
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=14866&hl=' target='_blank'>Read it, weep, then shut up</a>
Btw, Eliminator makes it sound like marine rushing is some unbeatable tactic and yet of all the times I've faced him as alien while he's commanding (in which he invariably rushes each game), he's lost all but 1 time and that game was won through late game jetpack/hmg, not rushing. It gets tense no doubt but after about 10 minutes of marine rushing, they eventually lose their thunder and get pushed back to spawn.
Hmm, I'm not too bothered by this. The only time I've seen aliens make a come back was in the first week of release, and that was by monse. In fact I've yet to see the counter for myself yet because when the last hive went down, the aliens have always been dead already. Anyway marine rush is risky. You need 2 inf portals just incase anything goes wrong, one won't cut it. Then your observatory and armory will take a little while (ok maybe only seconds, but it all adds up), then you have to wait for marines to load up ammo. and just what do you think the skulks were doing during this time? sitting around knitting, drinking tea and saying how good things were in the old days before humanity? Even in the skulks dont get into scraps at the marine spawn, they can run interference all the way to the hive. Any skulks get past and your base is screwed. This adds up to minutes, maybe more if the skulks annoy you. One gorge only for the aliens, and you have a defence up in no time.
Anyway, this is obviously annoying enough people to make it an issue. Basically the best balance so that everyone is happy is the vote system for the aliens to kil their last teamate
Elric- thats what flayra meant by commander audio problems. He can hear the hive
I don't think it needs to GO, it just needs to be tuned down a little.. It kills them off too quickly.. imo.
and texas, "destracts" is not a word.. the word you are looking for is detracts. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Barbarian+Nov 30 2002, 01:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Barbarian @ Nov 30 2002, 01:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--imperio59+Nov 30 2002, 10:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (imperio59 @ Nov 30 2002, 10:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok here's the perfect system: 3rd hive dies... All the skulks have 2 minutes before slow death starts. Gorges are NOT killed... You cannot evolve into a gorge if you are not one when the 3rd hive dies. After 5 minutes, Gorges get slow death on them. As for marines, No command chair, no unbuilt other command chair, 3 minutes then start slow marine kill... No spawn portals but comamnd chair or unbuilt command chair, they keep on fighting... Wadda ya think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> What if you've got 100 res points? hmm? Then you can evolve to gorge and build a hive, but not under your system.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you have no hives, no possible way to have 100 resources if your a skulk
Build a hive after the Hive death starts and the marines KNOW INSTANTLY that you've done it because the <Bing Bing Bing> stops. Why can they hear that? It's none of their business.
The hive death is pointless anyway. Why? Because now that the Team-Stack Win is now in place, all the losing team has to do is drop to the RR to end the match. THAT is the vote and they can stop the round at any time. That means you need a whole team of llamas to drag a round out that long.
BTW, I played in a match where the marines drug out the game by hiding in vents after the 1.03 patch. The problem still exists, the jerks have just switched teams.
For all you guys that are saying "if you lose your last hive you deserve to lose the game" I counter with, if you don't protect the hives you've taken, the aliens deserve to come back.
<!--QuoteBegin--Alchemist123+Dec 2 2002, 09:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Alchemist123 @ Dec 2 2002, 09:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The new feature is really good ! If Marines loose the comm chair and their inf portals they loose. Aliens simply had to build a new hive if they lost one. Now they have to protect their hive as the marines have to protect the Comm and the inf portals. This makes the game more interesting and a bit harder for the aliens! If the aliens loose their 30000 !! HP hive and are unable to rescue it, why should they have a chance to have a comeback? Its still much easier for the aliens to win as it is for the marines. The HP-loose with 0 Hives is very good !!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok, can you really compare the "hive" vs "hive" thing?
Yes you can 'defend' your hive...which will literally take 3 or 4 mins to build enough resources to even 'secure' ONE entrance to the hive....what's one LMG marine do? just straf back and forth from teh corridor. 9/10 times the off chamber will not hit you....and if your even smarter....all you have to do is bunny hop right past the OC's, straight to the hive, home free.
You can place 4 OC's in a general proximity....near your hive to protect it
You can place 5 Turrets at your marine spawn...to protect it.
Already..You have the numbers....Not to mention firing rate and accuracy of the turrets.
There isnt really a comparision on the OC vs Turret situation. And wall of lame are easily taken out too. I hardly ever play marine, but when I do, I have no troubles infiltrating a hive w/ a commander backing me up w/ ammo, dont even need health packs, since the OC's fire once every million years.
I'm not really saying increase the power of the OC's or even the HP...Just the rate of fire atleast to come somewhat close to a Turret.
Comments
I play more often than not on a passworded server, so yes, I do have to put up with less llamas than those that play on publics. This however doesn't mean I haven't had people camping after all hives are down.
The behaviour of people that think they can ruin a game for everyone is childish and annoying yes, though to be honest, I think I'd rather put up with somone doing that every once in a while that instant death because of a rush.
A lot of the replies are about "Aliens can't make a comeback if the marines are half decent because they will have sieged every hive and have best upgrades". Fair enough, I agree. The problem is thats not when most of these marine rushes happen. Most of these rushes happen as soon as the marines have their LMG's stocked up. I've seen 3 defeats as alien so far within 10 minutes of a start. (Not too many, as I said I play on a passworded server so most players aren't too bad.)
The thing is, a marine can take out a hive with pretty much a full LMG and a pistol clip (I don't have the exact stats, but I believe that to be roughly correct as I have taken out a hive alone before with only starting weapons). So 3 or 4 marines can take one out fast.
Again, I don't know the exact figures of an aliens starting resources, but after evolving to gorge, I do know it is nowhere near enough to build another hive with.
The arguements for this timer are pretty simple:
The skulks should stop the marines getting into that hive.
The gorges should build lots of offence towers.
Marines had to put up with skulk rushes all this time before.
Well, the arguements against these:
"The skulks should stop the marines getting into that hive."
NOTE: I don't want to get off of the point here into an arguement about default marines vs Skulk balance, I believe they are balanced, but I do need to explain some of my opinions about them.
Skulks <b>will</b> stop most marines getting to a hive, but a well coordinated marine squad (Read: sticking together) will still break through. A skulks advantage is stealth, while a marines is teamwork and range. A skulk can hide on a ceiling and drop on the first marine that walks underneath and though that marine may die, it is likely that his teammates that are following will avenge his death.
Anyhow, the point is that with a squad that works together, they will get into the first hive on most occasions if they try hard enough. With more than one marine in that hive, they have no doubt taken out all skulks along the way. Now, aliens spawn one by one. A group of one or more marines versus a single skulk that has just reincarnated in the middle of the floor a few feet ahead of them....not much of an opposition. I have seriously been killed by a couple marines with LMG's after spawning, before I could even move, never mind get close enough to kill them or run away. (Running away is not an option when you're only hive is about to die and begin the death countdown)
And since we covered how easily a hive can be killed by 1 or more marines with no defence, we don't really need to cover the rest. Combine this with a commander dropping endless supplies of health packs and ammo packs (plenty of resources since there was no need to build turrets or observatory or anything at base) and the aliens are good as dead.
"The gorges should build lots of offence towers."
As someone said earlier, it only takes a squad of marines a minute to get to a hive (2-3 if you include building a couple of infantry portals)
I've never timed it, but I'd guess it takes a lot longer for a gorge to build enough defence to keep marines out of the hive room. I don't ever remember a time where I have been able to evolve to gorge <b>straight</b> after round starts and have enough RP leftover to build anything.
Of course, the solution to this is don't evolve straight away, skulk for a while. Which of course makes this arguement "The gorges should build lots of offence towers." invalid anyhow, as I am discussing early round rushes.
"Marines had to put up with skulk rushes all this time before."
Now this is the arguement I have most problems with, the previous 2 do actually work on occasion. Don't get me wrong, it isn't impossible to prevent marine rushes, just difficult.
Now, marines do have had to put up with skulk rushes, yes. They can be quite annoying.
So a skulk rush was effective and your command chair is being chomped on, you quickly place a backup CC for that hiding marine in an empty hive to build. Now since all the skulks rushed marine spawn, none are even near this guy, nor do they know where he is. He has a chance to make a comeback. I <b>have</b> seen maries make comebacks like this on many occasion. Now put the marines in the situation that the aliens are in, as soon as that hiding guy starts building the backup CC, the first is lost. Countdown begins and he dies.
Annoying...
An even worse scenario, the marines only Inf Portal and CC are taken down due to an effective skulk rush. Marines have no chance to make a comeback. The few surviving marines are in the enemy hive and start firing. Once the hive is down, the aliens all die.
Now, do not get me wrong, the above examples do not happen often but they DO happen. I don't like llamas camping in vents, but I think the timer spoils the balance. I would rather see no timer at all, but I should at least like to see one for marines if their only complete CC is lost. (Placing another CC to be built wouldn't matter since aliens cannot rebuild a hive)
At the end of the day, marines have every chance to camp too.
If an alien camps after all hives are down, it is not the end of the game. Get the comm to equip marines with jetpacks and/or GL's and use scanner sweep.
I think an alternate option to the countdown should either be:
Make it a server variable so that the admin can decide if there is a countdown after all hives are lost.
Replace the countdown with anti camp code. If an alien (or marine) doesnt move for X minutes, kill it. Afterall, even though an alien may be hiding above a doorway, it would still move occasionally. Then of course aliens may try to move every couple of minutes to bypass the anti camp code, but then of course he shows on the motion tracking.
There are other possibilities instead of the timer which leave possibilities of comeback. I like the team vote suggestion, much like the vote out commander, but to end game if all hives are down.
So a quick conclusion of my post. The end game timer only causes a marine rush tactic which leaves no chance of comeback if successful unlike skulk rush. It is the beginning game rushes that cause most frustration, losing all hives after a long game doesn't matter so much.
Even at end game though, there is no need for a timer because marines should have all/many upgrades and track down and kill lone aliens easily.
If a prevention to camping must be included, think over other alternatives as suggested throughout this thread.
If your team seriosuly couldn't find a lone "camping" skulk, the commander cleary has no concept of scanner-sweep guys; at the tail end of the game I usually had plenty of res to spare to find a singe alien for the rest of my team to righteously splatter.
Unless this was to be implemented for the marines too (which I wouldn't do), I really think it needs to go...
If Marines loose the comm chair and their inf portals they loose.
Aliens simply had to build a new hive if they lost one.
Now they have to protect their hive as the marines have to protect the Comm and the inf portals.
This makes the game more interesting and a bit harder for the aliens!
If the aliens loose their 30000 !! HP hive and are unable to rescue it, why should they have a chance to have a comeback?
Its still much easier for the aliens to win as it is for the marines.
The HP-loose with 0 Hives is very good !!
One time, I was the last alien, no hives left. I ran and hid in a vent, and was the last one. I then asked my team:
"Should I give up, or stretch out the game and try to survive? Go to readyroom if you want me to end the game now."
3 people out of the team of 6 went to the readyroom, so I ran out to find a marine to chomp on. Game over.
It's not that hard to let us do it ourselves. Get rid of the countdown timer, please.
and I've seen such things turning into wins for aliens in 1.02, so it annoys me how it is impossible now.
I mean, if the marines realise they have lost thier comm chair and infantry spawns, if a marine survives and the commander has placed another cc to be built elsewhere, the marine can then build them and make a come back, sure this isnt as easy as a alien comeback as the marines are slower and more cumbersome, but it is still possible, albiet VERY unlikely. but aliens are meant to be more skilled fighters, and marines are meant to rely on thier structures, it makes sense for aliens to more easily come-back.
pie
Autokill is ok but too quick.
Marines in vents at endgame bites.
Period
The game was 1.02, and when I said built the hives in 2-3 minutes I didn't mean create, I meant finish. I thought maybe the gorge got insane resources for not having a hive anymore, I dunno.
For sake of carrying the story of the game further though, it makes some since. Without a hive, maybe the bacterium gives up on this location and consumes it's offspring.
I just know I don't like it.
If nothing else it should be a server variable that can be changed.
sv_nohivedamage (damage per tick dealt to aliens, 0 to disable)
This seems like something that was added in for tournament play to speed up games so two halves could be played in a night.
Personally, I think it's an unfortunate but probably necessary addition; I know of a few spots I could hide for a LONG time before being found. But I would like to see the timer extended slightly; 2-5 minutes after the hive is destroyed, perhaps.
Edit: Marines with JPs hiding are a much bigger problem than Skulks as well IMHO. Marines can sweep for campers... Aliens don't have such luxuries.
This makes the kharaa turn into alien bait if they're not super-duper careful.. and any comm with 2 guys with half a brain can distract the aliens (usually almost all of them) at one point, and then rape their hives (mm, jetpack welder) while they weren't looking. But the same is pretty much true for good aliens, being able to sneak past turrets.. provided no marine dies, the comm is screwed, and the same for aliens (if you die, you *have* to respawn at a hive. I don't know if it's still true that you can't respawn while your hive is under attack, though.
[edit] oh, but as long as the motion tracker upgrade doesn't work right (all the time) I think this upgrade should stay (finding aliens is @#$% hard to do when the only thing the marines see are the hives) [/edit]
Well actually you can tell where it is by hovering over the hive locations and looking for the squish sound. Maybe something to look into if you want it to take a bit to find the hive.
However, and I don't know how many times I have to retell this story, WE WON A GAME AFTER ALL 3 HIVES WERE DOWN FOR AT LEAST 3 MINUTES!! IT JUST TAKES DEFENSE TOWERS!! I'll link the freaking thing again so you get the point! And we won another game where we were down to zero hives and kept alive just by keeping a hive in building mode.
The change is good. Pub aliens actually have to worry more about losing their hives, it gives marines a chance to counter-rush if the aliens lose a lot in their rush, and if all the hives are down, the marines will know that the remaining aliens are camping near defense towers.
COMEBACKS ARE NOT DEAD! QUIT WHINING!
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=14866&hl=' target='_blank'>Read it, weep, then shut up</a>
Btw, Eliminator makes it sound like marine rushing is some unbeatable tactic and yet of all the times I've faced him as alien while he's commanding (in which he invariably rushes each game), he's lost all but 1 time and that game was won through late game jetpack/hmg, not rushing. It gets tense no doubt but after about 10 minutes of marine rushing, they eventually lose their thunder and get pushed back to spawn.
Anyway, this is obviously annoying enough people to make it an issue. Basically the best balance so that everyone is happy is the vote system for the aliens to kil their last teamate
Elric- thats what flayra meant by commander audio problems. He can hear the hive
and texas, "destracts" is not a word.. the word you are looking for is detracts. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
see you out there buddy.
-Lazerus
3rd hive dies... All the skulks have 2 minutes before slow death starts. Gorges are NOT killed... You cannot evolve into a gorge if you are not one when the 3rd hive dies. After 5 minutes, Gorges get slow death on them. As for marines, No command chair, no unbuilt other command chair, 3 minutes then start slow marine kill... No spawn portals but comamnd chair or unbuilt command chair, they keep on fighting... Wadda ya think?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What if you've got 100 res points? hmm? Then you can evolve to gorge and build a hive, but not under your system.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you have no hives, no possible way to have 100 resources if your a skulk
The hive death is pointless anyway. Why? Because now that the Team-Stack Win is now in place, all the losing team has to do is drop to the RR to end the match. THAT is the vote and they can stop the round at any time. That means you need a whole team of llamas to drag a round out that long.
BTW, I played in a match where the marines drug out the game by hiding in vents after the 1.03 patch. The problem still exists, the jerks have just switched teams.
For all you guys that are saying "if you lose your last hive you deserve to lose the game" I counter with, if you don't protect the hives you've taken, the aliens deserve to come back.
Hive Death is lame. Lose it.
GSH
If Marines loose the comm chair and their inf portals they loose.
Aliens simply had to build a new hive if they lost one.
Now they have to protect their hive as the marines have to protect the Comm and the inf portals.
This makes the game more interesting and a bit harder for the aliens!
If the aliens loose their 30000 !! HP hive and are unable to rescue it, why should they have a chance to have a comeback?
Its still much easier for the aliens to win as it is for the marines.
The HP-loose with 0 Hives is very good !!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, can you really compare the "hive" vs "hive" thing?
Yes you can 'defend' your hive...which will literally take 3 or 4 mins to build enough resources to even 'secure' ONE entrance to the hive....what's one LMG marine do? just straf back and forth from teh corridor. 9/10 times the off chamber will not hit you....and if your even smarter....all you have to do is bunny hop right past the OC's, straight to the hive, home free.
You can place 4 OC's in a general proximity....near your hive to protect it
You can place 5 Turrets at your marine spawn...to protect it.
Already..You have the numbers....Not to mention firing rate and accuracy of the turrets.
There isnt really a comparision on the OC vs Turret situation. And wall of lame are easily taken out too. I hardly ever play marine, but when I do, I have no troubles infiltrating a hive w/ a commander backing me up w/ ammo, dont even need health packs, since the OC's fire once every million years.
I'm not really saying increase the power of the OC's or even the HP...Just the rate of fire atleast to come somewhat close to a Turret.