Environment prop budgets

MasterG · June 2010

<div class="IPBDescription">poly and tri counts?</div>Hi, I'm new to modeling and have a few questions regarding environment props in ns2.

What's the limit for poly/tri-counts? (this depends on size and function I know, but some general guidelines would be of enormous help to me!)

If you build a model in say 3ds max and have 3ds max set to inches, will these inches correspond correctly with the units in spark?
Also, is there a way to import geometry from spark into 3ds max for geometric reference when building models? Or do I have to measure everything? Measuring gets quite boring and wastes a lot of time :(

Also I'd like to know if there are any tutorials out there that specifies in creating sci-fi textures, both for props and basic level textures?

Thanks for all your help!

Matt Regan · June 2010

Hi Kabelen,

1. We don't really have a limit for polycounts. The general rule is that if it doesn't add to the objects silhouette, then you don't need it. The one thing we really try to keep our eye on is the texture. Make sure you use all the UV space that you use it wisely. So no 1024x1024 for a barrel or a can.

2. If you set 3DSMax to generic US Standard decimal inches, you'll be good to go. 1 unit in Max = 1 inch in game. The marine is 72 units which makes him about 6' tall.

3. There are plenty of tutorials online for texture creation. My personal favorite places are Polycount and Game Artisans. This link is a great hard surface tutorial, which all of NS2 is made out of, except the Aliens of course: <a href="http://www.game-artist.net/forums/spotlight-articles/42-tutorial-hard-surface-texture-painting.html" target="_blank">http://www.game-artist.net/forums/spotligh...e-painting.html</a>.

Hope that helps!

-Matt

MasterG · June 2010

1. So a 1024 x 1024 should be perfect for this one?(it's supposed to be 132 tall, 128 long, and something between 64 and 80 wide):

<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/compthingwip01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

2. Perfect!

3. Thanks a lot Matt that helps me out very much! All I need now is to practice, practice and practice. Texturing is hard!! :(

Ark · June 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kabelen @ Jun 9 2010, 12:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>1. So a 1024 x 1024 should be perfect for this one?(it's supposed to be 132 tall, 128 long, and something between 64 and 80 wide):</div>

You really want to stick to a set texel-density. So the bigger the model in the world the bigger the texture size you'll need unless you tile some of the textures. The smaller the model, the smaller the texture maps you need.

<a href="http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35204" target="_blank">http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35204</a>

Also checkout these awesome scripts for texel scaling: <a href="http://www.renderhjs.net/textools/" target="_blank">http://www.renderhjs.net/textools/</a>

TSS · June 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kabelen @ Jun 8 2010, 11:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773967"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>1. So a 1024 x 1024 should be perfect for this one?(it's supposed to be 132 tall, 128 long, and something between 64 and 80 wide):

<img src="http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w234/Kabelen/compthingwip01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></div>

a 1024x1024 map for that model is wayy too big. The main thing you should be concirned about when designating resources to a model (the tri count + texture size) is priority. you should ask yourself, "how much time in a regular game will i be looking at this model?". 1024x1024 is the largest map with the most detail, which happens to cost the most memory, so it's reserved for high-detailed stuff you will see alot of, or stuff of extreme size. Think character models, weapon 1st person models (not the model that drops when you die). building models, but also the skybox textures.

512x512 is reserved for complex props and smaller but still highly visual models. I'd think the skytower model has a 512x512 texture. As well sa tech points but i'm not sure about those.

i think 256x256 will be the most used on the props and for materials in the editor. The terminals, probably the resource node because it's not that big and there's going to be a structure on top of those anyway, and i think it would also be the right size for your model. Yours seems to be a wall piece, so no need for a back face, the sides can be laid out ontop of eachother to save UWV space, and the pipe is relatively small so that could be done sharing space with the floor. The biggest and most detailed part will be the front side of the model but since the model isn't very detailed, the UWV map won't have to either. as in it's pretty much a flat face (any curves get drawn in not UWV mapped in). Also dont forget, you'll probably end up using this model in conjuction with other props, alone it looks bland but add a light and a barrel in front and it looks alot better.... but those have textures which take up memory, too.

128x128... well in this day and age i'd say anything smaller then a marines waist is a good candidate. Lights, soda bottles, desktop computer, ya know.

Ark · June 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSS @ Jun 9 2010, 05:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>a 1024x1024 map for that model is wayy too big. The main thing you should be concirned about when designating resources to a model (the tri count + texture size) is priority. you should ask yourself, "how much time in a regular game will i be looking at this model?". 1024x1024 is the largest map with the most detail, which happens to cost the most memory, so it's reserved for high-detailed stuff you will see alot of, or stuff of extreme size. Think character models, weapon 1st person models (not the model that drops when you die). building models, but also the skybox textures..</div>

The section hes made is 11 feet tall, 1024*1024 would be the minimum i would use to texture something of that size and still have it look good.

If you look through the props folder, you can see what sizes are being used on the different sized props:

Light model : 512*512
Stairs model : 1024*1024
Mining Cart : 2048*2048
View models : 2048*2048
Marine : 2048*2048

Pstrangler · June 2010

Are the props a package file with model, UVW, bump and such as separate files within the prop or is everything rendered as a single file?

The reason for this question is that I don't really like creating UVW maps and working with them. I prefer using different textures for different faces/poly groups. I understand that game engines often work this way but if textures 'baked' on is an option, then I like.

TSS · June 2010

So they did use 2048? I saw the skybox at 1024 and assumed thats the biggest they went, as i'd make the skybox the most detailed ^^.

even with 256x256, on an 132 inches tall model thats still 2 pixels per inch. A bit low yes, but like i said, priorities. It depends on how prominently this piece is featured in the map.

Max i'd go is 512x512. Simply because, for 1024x1024 i would make the model *far* more detailed. That's a 700 tri model tops, cut out the pipe and your lucky to have 300 tri's. texturing i know little about but prop modelling i can do ^^. An 11 feet sloped wall you can paste a 4096 texture on and it still won't look good.

GPU computing power these days is limited by memory bandwith, not FLOPS in the chips. So anything you'll paste a big texture on, you can use alot of tri's on as well.

MasterG · June 2010

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TSS @ Jun 10 2010, 04:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774254"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Max i'd go is 512x512. Simply because, for 1024x1024 i would make the model *far* more detailed. That's a 700 tri model tops, cut out the pipe and your lucky to have 300 tri's. texturing i know little about but prop modelling i can do ^^. An 11 feet sloped wall you can paste a 4096 texture on and it still won't look good.</div>

Redid the model today because I built it twice the size it was supposed to(stupid) and the scale down function didn't work very well as some edges ended up being in places they shouldn't. Anyways I reduced the polycount and such and it ended up at 280 tri's, with more detail. So I'll be adding some more geometry for "screens and buttons" and probably will go with a 512 texture map for this one. It will show up in all the rooms of importance in my map(I think) as it is somewhat vital to the background story and "function of the facility" and such. I'm a complete noob at texturing so I think I'll be sticking to making regular map textures until I can make those look good, and then move on to model textures. I do know how to model now, but I'm not really proficient with 3ds max and all its tools yet.

Thanks for all help and such so far everyone, although more is welcome! :)

Environment prop budgets

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