I just wanted to say that I've never found an appropriately sounding chunky and powerful gun since the gun in NS1. This new one sounds great! Just like it's older counterpart in NS1 - it fits.
If the shotgun isnt sounding BOOM enough for you, invest more cash in your soundsystem. It goes well through a subwoofer, and I have two. On either side of my head...
The shotgun they showcased is obviously in development and there sure has been some silly criticisms about things about things not done yet. Thanks for showing what you are considering as a damage model.
Whilst I mostly agree with you. UWE doesn't have big testing department or QA team (if any) and they do need feedback. As well as making all us followers happy with these posts, they do serve a purpose for UWE, namely feedback. I'm sure they are perfectly capable of ignoring the criticisms that aren't really relevant, it's just a shame we all have to read through them!
---- @ No on in particular
Oh about the reloading near the front of the barrel, if as in Kwil's rather awesome little fan fic, they are supposed to be loading into the mag through the barrel perhaps a really cheap way to indicate this is to have a little "*chunk* *whiirr*" noise just after a shell is inserted - no animation needed, where the gun's internals grab the shell and move it down (because the insertion of the shells at without the extra automated movement is just going to push the shells forward). Of course this maybe one of those things devs just decide to ignore, I know I probably would if I were a dev, but it's so easy to be a perfectionist when you're not actually doing the work, lol.
that's actually a good idea, maybe have the gun "######" back a bit every time a shell is inserted to show that it goes to the back of the chamber. Maybe you can make something up like "it's fired electronically" so it actually makes sense?
<!--quoteo(post=1774353:date=Jun 11 2010, 06:57 AM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Jun 11 2010, 06:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774353"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh about the reloading near the front of the barrel, if as in Kwil's rather awesome little fan fic, they are supposed to be loading into the mag through the barrel perhaps a really cheap way to indicate this is to have a little "*chunk* *whiirr*" noise just after a shell is inserted - no animation needed, where the gun's internals grab the shell and move it down (because the insertion of the shells at without the extra automated movement is just going to push the shells forward). Of course this maybe one of those things devs just decide to ignore, I know I probably would if I were a dev, but it's so easy to be a perfectionist when you're not actually doing the work, lol.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's a good idea. That reloading section that pops up was meant to be more of a mechanical mechanism that grabs and moves the shells through the gun to the proper loading/firing position, rather then just a tube that they drop through into the barrel. The additional mechanical noises might help to make that more clear, but also will add another interesting audio layer to the weapon.
Why not have the Marine Grab a loader clip from his belt that is loaded with shells of course, then all he has to do is hold the loader clip upto the shute on the shotgun and squeeze the loader clips hand grip triggering it to feed the shells into the gun. He could have the capacity to carry 2/3 loader clips on his belt each with 2/3 internal chamber shutes containing 6/8 shells in each shute. Have 2/3 lights on the loader clip so you can see how many loads are left in it and a number scribbled on the loader clip by the marine or a formal number if they are issued in pairs anyway as part of the design so you know its Clip 1/2/3 Then when you get to clip loader 3 with 2 lights left on it you know you have 12/16 shells left.
In other words, bit like a paintball gun that has a hopper then you grab your ammo tube with another 100 paintballs in it and throw them in while out on the field. I carry two topup tubes with me so I have 100 in the gun, 2x100 quick loads on me.
This would be a much quicker reload action and solves the problem of magic bullets.
Here's my recommendation for possible changes: -Move the ammo counter screen to the lower "ridge" portion of the shotgun; the portion of the rear between where the ammo counter curretly is and the shotgun stock. From there you can turn the side notches to ironsights (I wonder if toggle sighting will be a feature in this game??) either for practical or decorative purposes, and it also frees up more room for any top-loading animations you feel might be restricted by that screen. -Change the top-loading to something more conventional. It seems unpractical and frankly, from the size of the gun, unrealistic. The first time I saw such a mechanism was Halo, and it was a freaking eyesore. Making it side or bottom loading is practical in that it minimizes moving the gun during relaoding- takes less space and allows the animations to do less. From there shells can be spawned from off-screen, alleviating the "magical shells" issue altogether. Aside from being conventional it simply reduces the work the designers have. -If you REALLY love the Halo-derived top-loading feature, then at least make the muzzle flash appear at the bottom barrel. The top barrel will then be the magazine tube. This would be the simplest solution.
I don't like the top reloading animation -- it's too far forward. Move it further back and it'd also resolve the issue with the reload taking up half the screen. Honestly it'd be a bit awkward to have to carry shells from your person all the way to halfway down the length of your weapon, on the top, and drop them in one by one. Closer to your person that reload port is the less distance your hand must travel, it'd take up less of the screen and look a heck of a lot better technically. Move it back pretty far and it'd just look like they're behind loaded *behind* the action of the thing, and being taken from there and moved into the tube magazine.
I honestly don't have a problem with the reload, you can either have magic teleporting shots or you can have ridiculously fast hands darting on and off the screen. The only solution that involves neither is to not use individual shells and give it a magazine, or a stripper clip or something.
<!--quoteo(post=1774423:date=Jun 11 2010, 02:00 PM:name=nee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nee @ Jun 11 2010, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Here's my recommendation for possible changes: -Move the ammo counter screen to the lower "ridge" portion of the shotgun; the portion of the rear between where the ammo counter curretly is and the shotgun stock. From there you can turn the side notches to ironsights (I wonder if toggle sighting will be a feature in this game??) either for practical or decorative purposes, and it also frees up more room for any top-loading animations you feel might be restricted by that screen. -Change the top-loading to something more conventional. It seems unpractical and frankly, from the size of the gun, unrealistic. The first time I saw such a mechanism was Halo, and it was a freaking eyesore. Making it side or bottom loading is practical in that it minimizes moving the gun during relaoding- takes less space and allows the animations to do less. From there shells can be spawned from off-screen, alleviating the "magical shells" issue altogether. Aside from being conventional it simply reduces the work the designers have. -If you REALLY love the Halo-derived top-loading feature, then at least make the muzzle flash appear at the bottom barrel. The top barrel will then be the magazine tube. This would be the simplest solution.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even if this is a mechanism taking the rounds past the barrel into the mag, this raises a couple of questions:
-How is the barrel not weakened by part of it hinging to carry shells down into the tube? -What's wrong with just loading it into the mag from below like a sane person instead of needing a heavy, complicated mechanism to move a small cylinder to something 3 inches away?
Simply making the bottom tube the barrel and keeping the top tube as a magazine would let the current model work pretty much as made, the only necessary change being moving the ejector port down into line with the lower tube. The lower barrel axis would also (in theory) allow the shooter to soak up more recoil as it's more in-line with the center of mass of the weapon. As it currently stands, I think it looks cool, but every time I see the reload animation it jars me. If it's that way in-game, it's going to mess with my sense of immersion every time I reload.
... but i guess this is your way to slow down the fire rate and keep the game balanced. Would be nice to have somthing like a slug ammo upgrade to research - less spread, more damage and range.
sweet Shot gun, I can't wait to blast aliens away with it lol. the sound is so affective i can't wait to try it Great work NS2 team p.s. does anyone have any clue when the HMG and Granade Launcher come out, Thanks :)
Is the shotgun supposed to have 3 or 6 shells? Was it just co-incidence the display showed 6 but it reloaded twice after 3?
I agree with people saying that the shell load chamber is a bit far forward, however I guess there could be a mechanism inside the shotty pushing them back after each shell is inserted but it does look a bit odd. Would be even stranger loading 6 shells into there.
I just wondered, does this thing have a "F*** off" mode? I.e. using more shells for one shot, but gives more statistical (or close combat) damage with more pellets over a wider spread, for less damage per pellet.
<!--quoteo(post=1774236:date=Jun 10 2010, 11:45 AM:name=szmuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (szmuk @ Jun 10 2010, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bolleke, this is a pump action shotgun, not a semi automatic one. I agree that this isn't too futuristic, but I wouldn't like to see a shotty with pistol fire rate, at least not when playing skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but when the reloading animation starts, there's still a full cartridge in the chamber, no?(Unless the shotgun was empty) So when he stops reloading and does the pump action, doesn't he eject the full cartridge and replace it with another full one? I'm no gun specialist and I don't own a shotgun, but I'm pretty sure that that's the way a pump action shotgun works...
<!--quoteo(post=1774673:date=Jun 13 2010, 06:10 AM:name=Bolleke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bolleke @ Jun 13 2010, 06:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774673"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, but when the reloading animation starts, there's still a full cartridge in the chamber, no?(Unless the shotgun was empty) So when he stops reloading and does the pump action, doesn't he eject the full cartridge and replace it with another full one? I'm no gun specialist and I don't own a shotgun, but I'm pretty sure that that's the way a pump action shotgun works...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes good call, when the magazine tube is full and the action is worked, one motion releases the empty cartridge while the secondary motion loads a new one into the chamber. This would make it hard to "reload through the barrel down into the tube" which UW suggested doing, which would almost imply that the firing pin and nanite machine that brings the shell into the right tube are infact one being.
Also this would mean that after firing three shots of a loaded sg, load 3 more into the magazine tube, and working the action again (per video), you actually empty the chamber of a perfectly functioning shell.
Since we're using nanite-based ammo, there's another way to explain how the shotgun is good against chitinous armored targets: variable programming ammunition. Assuming your nanotech is adequate (which it seems to be), the shell, when loaded and chambered, could remain unprogrammed until the moment it is fired.
-Primary fire mode initiates a nanotech process that fractures the slug into fragments or flechettes producing the usual "buckshot" effect, which could do Normal damage (or possibly Structural), good for shredding lightly armored and/or close range targets.
-Secondary fire mode either doesn't initiate the fracturing process, or initiates a different one which disintegrates the leading edges of the slug such that they form a single penetrating spike, which would do Heavy damage. Your aim needs to be better, but it'd let you engage Fades or other heavy units more effectively.
Comments
It goes well through a subwoofer, and I have two. On either side of my head...
Whilst I mostly agree with you. UWE doesn't have big testing department or QA team (if any) and they do need feedback. As well as making all us followers happy with these posts, they do serve a purpose for UWE, namely feedback. I'm sure they are perfectly capable of ignoring the criticisms that aren't really relevant, it's just a shame we all have to read through them!
----
@ No on in particular
Oh about the reloading near the front of the barrel, if as in Kwil's rather awesome little fan fic, they are supposed to be loading into the mag through the barrel perhaps a really cheap way to indicate this is to have a little "*chunk* *whiirr*" noise just after a shell is inserted - no animation needed, where the gun's internals grab the shell and move it down (because the insertion of the shells at without the extra automated movement is just going to push the shells forward). Of course this maybe one of those things devs just decide to ignore, I know I probably would if I were a dev, but it's so easy to be a perfectionist when you're not actually doing the work, lol.
That's a good idea. That reloading section that pops up was meant to be more of a mechanical mechanism that grabs and moves the shells through the gun to the proper loading/firing position, rather then just a tube that they drop through into the barrel. The additional mechanical noises might help to make that more clear, but also will add another interesting audio layer to the weapon.
--Cory
He could have the capacity to carry 2/3 loader clips on his belt each with 2/3 internal chamber shutes containing 6/8 shells in each shute.
Have 2/3 lights on the loader clip so you can see how many loads are left in it and a number scribbled on the loader clip by the marine or a formal number if they are issued in pairs anyway as part of the design so you know its Clip 1/2/3
Then when you get to clip loader 3 with 2 lights left on it you know you have 12/16 shells left.
In other words, bit like a paintball gun that has a hopper then you grab your ammo tube with another 100 paintballs in it and throw them in while out on the field. I carry two topup tubes with me so I have 100 in the gun, 2x100 quick loads on me.
This would be a much quicker reload action and solves the problem of magic bullets.
Almost tempted to take some sm57's out to my next range trip and see if I can capture a better sound =D
-Move the ammo counter screen to the lower "ridge" portion of the shotgun; the portion of the rear between where the ammo counter curretly is and the shotgun stock. From there you can turn the side notches to ironsights (I wonder if toggle sighting will be a feature in this game??) either for practical or decorative purposes, and it also frees up more room for any top-loading animations you feel might be restricted by that screen.
-Change the top-loading to something more conventional. It seems unpractical and frankly, from the size of the gun, unrealistic. The first time I saw such a mechanism was Halo, and it was a freaking eyesore. Making it side or bottom loading is practical in that it minimizes moving the gun during relaoding- takes less space and allows the animations to do less. From there shells can be spawned from off-screen, alleviating the "magical shells" issue altogether. Aside from being conventional it simply reduces the work the designers have.
-If you REALLY love the Halo-derived top-loading feature, then at least make the muzzle flash appear at the bottom barrel. The top barrel will then be the magazine tube. This would be the simplest solution.
Don't see why two ammo shower things are needed.
-Move the ammo counter screen to the lower "ridge" portion of the shotgun; the portion of the rear between where the ammo counter curretly is and the shotgun stock. From there you can turn the side notches to ironsights (I wonder if toggle sighting will be a feature in this game??) either for practical or decorative purposes, and it also frees up more room for any top-loading animations you feel might be restricted by that screen.
-Change the top-loading to something more conventional. It seems unpractical and frankly, from the size of the gun, unrealistic. The first time I saw such a mechanism was Halo, and it was a freaking eyesore. Making it side or bottom loading is practical in that it minimizes moving the gun during relaoding- takes less space and allows the animations to do less. From there shells can be spawned from off-screen, alleviating the "magical shells" issue altogether. Aside from being conventional it simply reduces the work the designers have.
-If you REALLY love the Halo-derived top-loading feature, then at least make the muzzle flash appear at the bottom barrel. The top barrel will then be the magazine tube. This would be the simplest solution.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed x10 with all points.
This guy should be hired like right now... :D
-How is the barrel not weakened by part of it hinging to carry shells down into the tube?
-What's wrong with just loading it into the mag from below like a sane person instead of needing a heavy, complicated mechanism to move a small cylinder to something 3 inches away?
Simply making the bottom tube the barrel and keeping the top tube as a magazine would let the current model work pretty much as made, the only necessary change being moving the ejector port down into line with the lower tube. The lower barrel axis would also (in theory) allow the shooter to soak up more recoil as it's more in-line with the center of mass of the weapon. As it currently stands, I think it looks cool, but every time I see the reload animation it jars me. If it's that way in-game, it's going to mess with my sense of immersion every time I reload.
I also would have expected some semi automatic weapon like a benelli m4 super 90 ...
<img src="http://www.spearpointtechnology.com.au/products/products/products/shotguns_files/m4super90.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
... but i guess this is your way to slow down the fire rate and keep the game balanced. Would be nice to have somthing like a slug ammo upgrade to research - less spread, more damage and range.
Set all volumes to %80 (music, fx, etc. ). Only set %100 to personal weapon volumes.
When a group fires, my gun sound should be %100 while others nearby me is %80.
An idea may be it is used in the same way.
Great work NS2 team
p.s. does anyone have any clue when the HMG and Granade Launcher come out, Thanks :)
I agree with people saying that the shell load chamber is a bit far forward, however I guess there could be a mechanism inside the shotty pushing them back after each shell is inserted but it does look a bit odd. Would be even stranger loading 6 shells into there.
Yeah, but when the reloading animation starts, there's still a full cartridge in the chamber, no?(Unless the shotgun was empty) So when he stops reloading and does the pump action, doesn't he eject the full cartridge and replace it with another full one? I'm no gun specialist and I don't own a shotgun, but I'm pretty sure that that's the way a pump action shotgun works...
Yes good call, when the magazine tube is full and the action is worked, one motion releases the empty cartridge while the secondary motion loads a new one into the chamber. This would make it hard to "reload through the barrel down into the tube" which UW suggested doing, which would almost imply that the firing pin and nanite machine that brings the shell into the right tube are infact one being.
Also this would mean that after firing three shots of a loaded sg, load 3 more into the magazine tube, and working the action again (per video), you actually empty the chamber of a perfectly functioning shell.
-Primary fire mode initiates a nanotech process that fractures the slug into fragments or flechettes producing the usual "buckshot" effect, which could do Normal damage (or possibly Structural), good for shredding lightly armored and/or close range targets.
-Secondary fire mode either doesn't initiate the fracturing process, or initiates a different one which disintegrates the leading edges of the slug such that they form a single penetrating spike, which would do Heavy damage. Your aim needs to be better, but it'd let you engage Fades or other heavy units more effectively.
@Shrike: I've thought of something like this before, but couldnt find a logical solution. Your nanites thingy fits in perfectly for me. Good idea.