The newspaper I work for enabled this neat feature where you can block a specific user's comments from being seen, but they don't actually know their comments are blocked!
A) Renegade for being such an expert at what games should be why don't you go out and assemble a team and make your own damn perfect video game or stop jerking off in the mirror as you type on the forum about a game that hasn't even reached alpha yet and is far from the competitive game play circuit's regular in and out of bull###### elitist debauchery that you seem to love so damn much.
B) Can we lock this thread since its proceeding off topic?
While I pre-ordered to support UWE, I still think Black Armor should be very strict in being only for pre-orders. It's something the development team put time and effort into being a "fun" and non-game changing benefit for those who supported the team early on. By just giving it to everyone, it completely negates all the hard work the dev team put into it.
<!--quoteo(post=1780167:date=Jul 17 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Jul 17 2010, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The newspaper I work for enabled this neat feature where you can block a specific user's comments from being seen, but they don't actually know their comments are blocked!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I use this on a few accounts around these forums as well!
<!--quoteo(post=1780094:date=Jul 17 2010, 09:22 AM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Jul 17 2010, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780094"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well Renegade, I still don't see how you can put black marine armor on par with pink skulks, or even with custom sprites. It's not as if the black armor was a custom skin, it's a single, isolated skin, created by the dev team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It is a custom skin. Any skin that is not available to everyone, no one, or at random is a custom skin. By making a skin available selectively, you factor it into gameplay. Even random, let alone choice, as all the rage in 1.04-2.0 was F4-ing madly before (and after) match-start to get your entire team into black models (just to show you how such a minor skin texture can cause bouts of stupidity that ruin entire games).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All that being said, I don't think you've understood at all where I stand. Yes, I think black armor is a great idea. Is that why I've purchased SE? Not at all. I just find that it does what it's meant to do, that is to say, bring money to UWE for a reasonable amount of work, while not being the key feature of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nor did I claim that is why <b>you</b> purchased it, but I've already proven a <b>significant</b> amount have DIFBA and here is where you need to understand where I'm coming from: If every match, the marine team is continually stacked with black armours... If instead of listening to comm, the entire team merely follows around a black armour... If an alien teammate pulls off or deviates an attack because of the presence of black armour... If I rationalize why certain players look different by explaining they paid to look different... If for any reason black armour has these or any other negative effects on gameplay (which it will) no matter how small... Then you've needlessly degraded gameplay by adding a gimmick into the game. There are many acts of gameplay stupidity that are not preventable or apply equally to all; this one does not.
<!--quoteo(post=1780106:date=Jul 17 2010, 10:06 AM:name=ZimbuTheMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZimbuTheMonkey @ Jul 17 2010, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you saying that superior experience, education and/or skill justifies being elitist towards those that don't have the same experience, education and/or skill?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Elitism is unwarranted. But when newcomers attempt to tell veterans what and what doesn't apply without proof or experience, then it is usually the inevitable result.
Many NS players have already expressed valid concerns that NS is as you've put it becoming, "peasantized". I do not agree with the many of the gameplay changes, but I understand them and that they can be justified in this context. However I see absolutely no justification for adding gimmicks into the game such as Black armour, in effect hats. The only justification I have seen tirelessly dragged through these forums is "support", and I've already shown at length that what get is money, and not support (if you can't tell the difference, chances are you're not the latter), in exchange for polluting the playerbase with hat-seeking brain-dead achievement getters who will probably abandon the game after the next CoD release. Leaving who? The loyal crowd of NS players who stuck with this game for almost a decade? Not if you've already alienated them.
Throw us a bone, is all I'm saying. In contrast to what Bacillus said, I wouldn't even care if they put nuclear warheads and rodeo clowns in the readyroom, <u>just keep it out of the game</u>
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in exchange for polluting the playerbase with hat-seeking brain-dead achievement getters who will probably abandon the game after the next CoD release. Leaving who? The loyal crowd of NS players who stuck with this game for almost a decade? Not if you've already alienated them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1780271:date=Jul 17 2010, 11:20 PM:name=Renegade.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Renegade. @ Jul 17 2010, 11:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780271"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Elitism is unwarranted. But when newcomers attempt to tell veterans what and what doesn't apply without proof or experience, then it is usually the inevitable result.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->First of all, by deciding in the first place who qualifies as a "veteran" or what counts as "experience", you are already indulging in elitism. Your expertise is self-appointed and nothing more. It seems that in this case elitism being the inevitable result is categorically true because if elitism is the result of elitism, the statement is suddenly a tautology, but nothing more.
Also, in case you haven't noticed, no one here has agreed with you. almost ever comment after your initial post has been of others that have considered you nothing less than extreme, elitist and just plain <i>wrong</i>. That's about as far as you can go without using the naughty words that seem necessary given the sentiments being expressed here. So please, just take a look at yourself for a second and tone down the ego. You are not some expert in human nature, nor are you a game design genius that can accurately predict what impact <b>black armor</b> (because remember, that's what this whole thing is about) will have on the game. You don't know that the presence of black armor will have all of the green-clad players flocking to him as some sort of messiah. You don't know that they will targeted or feared over the green-clad players by the enemy team.
Do you know what's ironic about those fears? They are all based on the notion that players will assume that someone wearing black armor will have been playing longer than they have and as such will be more experienced and talented. As such they should be either feared or revered, depending on what eyes you are seeing them through. After all, that's what the black armor means. You've been with NS2 since at least the alpha version. By saying that players treating them as such would be a bad thing, you are basically saying that the notion of superiority by virtue of longevity is invalid. This is the exact notion upon which you are attempting to base your so-called "expertise" on. You've been playing NS longer than most of us, which makes you the experienced expert who knows better than us common folk. We're supposed to trust you when you say that there will be false impressions of expertise due to having played NS2 for so long because of <i>your</i> expertise, which is only by virtue of having played NS for so long.
I see it this way: Renegade cant afford the SE, and therefore cant get a BA.
Sad for you, i just got the SE 2 days ago. Why? Well, of course for the BA, to boost my ego by allowing me to say "you guys with me. Dont ask questions, look at my Black Armour, it tell you that i know stuff".
Oh, and of course to Support the devs. Because they deserve it.
now, go ahead and flame me because i got the SE for the BA. But just as a warning: Your insults, tears and whatever else you may throw at me will simply be stopped. Yea, by my Black Armour.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see it this way: Renegade cant afford the SE, and therefore cant get a BA.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure he's got the SE pre-ordered.
Pretty lame and nonsensical argument anyway. Reminds me of Apple fanboys: "Oh you don't like the ipod/ipad/iphone, well you probably can't afford it".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't know that the presence of black armor will have all of the green-clad players flocking to him as some sort of messiah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1780457:date=Jul 18 2010, 02:54 PM:name=Alex2539)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex2539 @ Jul 18 2010, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780457"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It was weird to write, but I think it's an effective line overall. I think it really conveys the absurdity of the matter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I meant the part Renegade wrote which prompted you to reply with that. You described it very aptly.
It's just weird that he thinks people will flock to black armor wearers.
Kind of curious what your expert opinion about my special edition pre-order is, Renegade.
Did I buy it for the .. wait, how did you refer to it .. "IDIFTBA"? or to support the devs?
Some background info, I do own TF2 - I did pre-order L4D2, so I have Bill's hat (and rock it, constantly), but I do not have ear buds or any of the Sam & Max stuff. I do also intend to use the black armor at every opportunity..
Just wanted to know if I was in the cool kids club too or if I were forever shunned as just another poser.
The last thing I really care about is whether players don't get the black armor or have it without paying. I didn't pre order this game to feel special with shiny black armor. To most people that's just a bonus. I pre ordered this because I enjoy playing the original and want to see this one succeed and build on what was already a great game. I still spend time playing the first, mostly on the bad clan servers these days.
What really worries me is players who spend more time on forums thinking their ideas to improve the game were never thought of before or will raise the game to a much higher fun factor. In most cases players who want change simply want it because they are dieing or failing in the game or they feel like the game should be more like "this" or "that". It's one thing to post constructive criticism giving feedback on over powered classes or weapons. But most players forget that if one thing isn't working, try another. Or maybe their team needs to start working together.
Blah, I just can't wait for this game to hit alpha and to see it's end results. I rarely check the forums... so I probably wont see anyones replies. I just hope people will start enjoying the game for what it is and help it's success by leaving constructive feedback for the dev team. I'm sure they will work out most problems and bring us an advanced version of what to me, was already a perfect game.
<i>Btw, I think this is the perfect time for UWE to add a new weapon and form to the Kharra. They should also do something for a special alien skin.</i>
Why are you guys still talking about this black armor. Have you seen it? It's not that great. I was actually very dissappointed. Get over it move on. Talk about how on the 26th something will delay the alpha.
So you basically think that players are braindead. If you play on a server where players stack marines to show off armor or where game choices are influenced by armor color rather than the game's flow, then you're definitely on the wrong server. But then again, I guess that never happens to you considering you don't even know what defines a pubber. (Pubber != retards following shinies)
Ok, so some people have bought the black armor for the wrong reasons. Sucks for them, but they gave money to UWE and that's good, plus you won't ever encounter them ingame, so there's no negative side to it. Just concentrate on the issue here, that is to say: UWE has gotten money to do the game they wanted to make (remember when they were considering removing the heavy/exo?), gameplay is unchanged (again, that is considering that people play the game rather than playing notice-that-guy)
<!--quoteo(post=1780352:date=Jul 18 2010, 12:18 PM:name=basti53)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basti53 @ Jul 18 2010, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see it this way: Renegade cant afford the SE, and therefore cant get a BA.
Sad for you, i just got the SE 2 days ago. Why? Well, of course for the BA, to boost my ego by allowing me to say "you guys with me. Dont ask questions, look at my Black Armour, it tell you that i know stuff".
Oh, and of course to Support the devs. Because they deserve it.
now, go ahead and flame me because i got the SE for the BA. But just as a warning: Your insults, tears and whatever else you may throw at me will simply be stopped. Yea, by my Black Armour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
black armor in a year or 2 will throw up a flag that tells everyone, they are probably more skilled, so target them over non black armor wearers.
Pretty much this ^^. I forgot to mention it earlier, but to all those in disbelief we need only mention "icon stacks". If out-of-game meta-icons could cause so stackage and turmoil to the point of bans (yes I've seen everyone from playtesters to consties banned on basis of icon), then you need only imagine what grief in-game black armour will cause.
@Alex, I never as a rule of thumb drop names as to who is "experienced" or a "veteran", the rest of your post is similarly out of context.
@Zimbu, Cereal, et. all. who are sittin in disbelief, asking "there's no way players are that stupid, are they?". See above. At this point it's something that unless you've seen it first hand, you will never believe it. So take my word, I've seen it first hand in many games, and many communities. I've seen the best but also the worse and I can guarantee you the potential for black armour to negatively affect gameplay is great.
That being said, I keep forgetting to ask the most important question. So to devs/anyone who knows: <!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Will Black Armor and other custom models be toggleable server-side in a similar fashion to mp_consistency?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> In other words, will it be left to server admins to decide whether they want to allow black armour and other custom models or force model consistency among all players <b>without being penalized in anyway</b> (i.e. not showing up as modded or not at all in the serverbrowser). This also applies to achievements and any other gimmicks that are added into this game. I'm half tempted to suggest it be called "mp_gimmicks 0" (hey, if they could call it "bs 0"...)
This is the only answer that is important. Because if it is, the problem is solvable easily and there is no further issue (server admins will choose whether they want a "hats&fun achievement community", or "serious business").
<!--quoteo(post=1780743:date=Jul 19 2010, 10:55 AM:name=Renegade.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Renegade. @ Jul 19 2010, 10:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pretty much this ^^. I forgot to mention it earlier, but to all those in disbelief we need only mention "icon stacks". If out-of-game meta-icons could cause so stackage and turmoil to the point of bans (yes I've seen everyone from playtesters to consties banned on basis of icon), then you need only imagine what grief in-game black armour will cause.
@Alex, I never as a rule of thumb drop names as to who is "experienced" or a "veteran", the rest of your post is similarly out of context.
@Zimbu, Cereal, et. all. who are sittin in disbelief, asking "there's no way players are that stupid, are they?". See above. At this point it's something that unless you've seen it first hand, you will never believe it. So take my word, I've seen it first hand in many games, and many communities. I've seen the best but also the worse and I can guarantee you the potential for black armour to negatively affect gameplay is great.
That being said, I keep forgetting to ask the most important question. So to devs/anyone who knows: <!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Will Black Armor and other custom models be toggleable server-side in a similar fashion to mp_consistency?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> In other words, will it be left to server admins to decide whether they want to allow black armour and other custom models or force model consistency among all players <b>without being penalized in anyway</b> (i.e. not showing up as modded or not at all in the serverbrowser). This also applies to achievements and any other gimmicks that are added into this game. I'm half tempted to suggest it be called "mp_gimmicks 0" (hey, if they could call it "bs 0"...)
This is the only answer that is important. Because if it is, the problem is solvable easily and there is no further issue (server admins will choose whether they want a "hats&fun achievement community", or "serious business").<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's pretty safe to assume mp_consistency 1 would INCLUDE black armor. It's an official part of the game. It would be more realistic to say that server mods will need to develop a plugin to not allow it. Also, playing from Day 1 does not make you better in any way. There are thousands of skilled competitive players who will always be better than me and I've been playing NS for over 8 years.
<!--quoteo(post=1780660:date=Jul 19 2010, 07:57 AM:name=ctoon6)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ctoon6 @ Jul 19 2010, 07:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780660"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->black armor in a year or 2 will throw up a flag that tells everyone, they are probably more skilled, so target them over non black armor wearers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Generally I avoid things that are likely to kill me rather than throw myself at them.
Besides I'm sure you can turn it off if you want to.
<!--quoteo(post=1780783:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:30 PM:name=Slycaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slycaster @ Jul 19 2010, 02:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780783"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's pretty safe to assume mp_consistency 1 would INCLUDE black armor. It's an official part of the game. It would be more realistic to say that server mods will need to develop a plugin to not allow it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That seems like a reasonable assumption. However, if server admins can create a mod to disable the black armor, doesn't it stand to reason that there could also be a mod that does the inverse? I don't think it's far-fetched to assume there will be servers where the black armor is usable by <i>anyone</i>. As such, I think the OP's question is finally answered. Unless there's some sort of hard-coded lock on the black armor, there will likely be people running around with it who did not buy the SE. Odds are though that if you avoid heavily-modded servers you shouldn't run accross them too often, if at all.
Given that UWE has expressed a desire to support competitive play with NS2, I would assume there will be an option to disable alternate armors on the server for competitive matches or whatever, given that competitive players complain a lot if you allow any sort of deviation between players.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you have the Special Edition, you will be able to choose your armor when you play - possibly at the Armory, like the rest of your weapons and equipment!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Judging by this it isn't simply an option you check whether to black or not but it is an ingame choice that players who have purchased the special edition can use. I am certainly sure that a LUA mod could be written to allow all people to access this or just have it as a choice upon joining. Really we can only tell how its going to affect play as we're closer to a fully developed game however the way it sounds it will just be a timesink for players to go to the armory and pick it(possibly every round they want to use it/after they die) with it having no more a beneficial effect than just looking "E-cool"
The main thing to remember here is that there goal is ship this with a filter such on a the search engine you can choose to play their vanilla coded server or a modded one. If you're playing NS2 then you're going to have to deal with the DIFBA.
<!--quoteo(post=1780743:date=Jul 19 2010, 04:55 PM:name=Renegade.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Renegade. @ Jul 19 2010, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@Zimbu, Cereal, et. all. who are sittin in disbelief, asking "there's no way players are that stupid, are they?". See above. At this point it's something that unless you've seen it first hand, you will never believe it. So take my word, I've seen it first hand in many games, and many communities. I've seen the best but also the worse and I can guarantee you the potential for black armour to negatively affect gameplay is great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it's just sad to hear how pessimistic you are about the gaming community. I am aware that a lot of players are horrible, but I am convinced I won't encounter them often enough for it to be a problem. Besides, if you're playing with people following black armors, then the skin color is probably the least of your worries.
<!--quoteo(post=1780796:date=Jul 19 2010, 01:58 PM:name=Rulgrok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rulgrok @ Jul 19 2010, 01:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780796"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The main thing to remember here is that there goal is ship this with a filter such on a the search engine you can choose to play their vanilla coded server or a modded one. If you're playing NS2 then you're going to have to deal with the DIFBA.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Being labeled modded or un-vanilla is a such a penalty I refer to, and would be a major disappointment as mp_blockscripts doesn't require modding and is available to a "vanilla" server. Even TF2 has the ability to turn off crits and hats and go into "serious business" mode without requiring mods. It seems NS2 is already taking every other page from the TF2 book, may as well take this last one and call it a novel.
<!--quoteo(post=1780788:date=Jul 19 2010, 01:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 19 2010, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Given that UWE has expressed a desire to support competitive play with NS2, I would assume there will be an option to disable alternate armors on the server for competitive matches or whatever, given that competitive players complain a lot if you allow any sort of deviation between players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is what I would expect, otherwise the claims of supporting the competitive community are null and void. Also, don't confuse pessimism with realism. I've given examples of the worst because these particularly stand out, but black armour has an effect at every level, no public community is isolated. It may be the least of worries, but it is a worry that didn't need to be in the first place (they could have offered any number of non-in-game perks, up to and including Black Armour and fireworks in the readyroom, and no one would have been the wiser).
Comments
B) Can we lock this thread since its proceeding off topic?
I use this on a few accounts around these forums as well!
It is a custom skin. Any skin that is not available to everyone, no one, or at random is a custom skin. By making a skin available selectively, you factor it into gameplay. Even random, let alone choice, as all the rage in 1.04-2.0 was F4-ing madly before (and after) match-start to get your entire team into black models (just to show you how such a minor skin texture can cause bouts of stupidity that ruin entire games).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All that being said, I don't think you've understood at all where I stand. Yes, I think black armor is a great idea. Is that why I've purchased SE? Not at all. I just find that it does what it's meant to do, that is to say, bring money to UWE for a reasonable amount of work, while not being the key feature of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nor did I claim that is why <b>you</b> purchased it, but I've already proven a <b>significant</b> amount have DIFBA and here is where you need to understand where I'm coming from:
If every match, the marine team is continually stacked with black armours...
If instead of listening to comm, the entire team merely follows around a black armour...
If an alien teammate pulls off or deviates an attack because of the presence of black armour...
If I rationalize why certain players look different by explaining they paid to look different...
If for any reason black armour has these or any other negative effects on gameplay (which it will) no matter how small...
Then you've needlessly degraded gameplay by adding a gimmick into the game. There are many acts of gameplay stupidity that are not preventable or apply equally to all; this one does not.
<!--quoteo(post=1780106:date=Jul 17 2010, 10:06 AM:name=ZimbuTheMonkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ZimbuTheMonkey @ Jul 17 2010, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you saying that superior experience, education and/or skill justifies being elitist towards those that don't have the same experience, education and/or skill?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Elitism is unwarranted. But when newcomers attempt to tell veterans what and what doesn't apply without proof or experience, then it is usually the inevitable result.
Many NS players have already expressed valid concerns that NS is as you've put it becoming, "peasantized". I do not agree with the many of the gameplay changes, but I understand them and that they can be justified in this context. However I see absolutely no justification for adding gimmicks into the game such as Black armour, in effect hats. The only justification I have seen tirelessly dragged through these forums is "support", and I've already shown at length that what get is money, and not support (if you can't tell the difference, chances are you're not the latter), in exchange for polluting the playerbase with hat-seeking brain-dead achievement getters who will probably abandon the game after the next CoD release. Leaving who? The loyal crowd of NS players who stuck with this game for almost a decade? Not if you've already alienated them.
Throw us a bone, is all I'm saying. In contrast to what Bacillus said, I wouldn't even care if they put nuclear warheads and rodeo clowns in the readyroom, <u>just keep it out of the game</u>
You don't even see it in yourself, do you?
Also, in case you haven't noticed, no one here has agreed with you. almost ever comment after your initial post has been of others that have considered you nothing less than extreme, elitist and just plain <i>wrong</i>. That's about as far as you can go without using the naughty words that seem necessary given the sentiments being expressed here. So please, just take a look at yourself for a second and tone down the ego. You are not some expert in human nature, nor are you a game design genius that can accurately predict what impact <b>black armor</b> (because remember, that's what this whole thing is about) will have on the game. You don't know that the presence of black armor will have all of the green-clad players flocking to him as some sort of messiah. You don't know that they will targeted or feared over the green-clad players by the enemy team.
Do you know what's ironic about those fears? They are all based on the notion that players will assume that someone wearing black armor will have been playing longer than they have and as such will be more experienced and talented. As such they should be either feared or revered, depending on what eyes you are seeing them through. After all, that's what the black armor means. You've been with NS2 since at least the alpha version. By saying that players treating them as such would be a bad thing, you are basically saying that the notion of superiority by virtue of longevity is invalid. This is the exact notion upon which you are attempting to base your so-called "expertise" on. You've been playing NS longer than most of us, which makes you the experienced expert who knows better than us common folk. We're supposed to trust you when you say that there will be false impressions of expertise due to having played NS2 for so long because of <i>your</i> expertise, which is only by virtue of having played NS for so long.
Sad for you, i just got the SE 2 days ago. Why? Well, of course for the BA, to boost my ego by allowing me to say "you guys with me. Dont ask questions, look at my Black Armour, it tell you that i know stuff".
Oh, and of course to Support the devs. Because they deserve it.
now, go ahead and flame me because i got the SE for the BA. But just as a warning: Your insults, tears and whatever else you may throw at me will simply be stopped. Yea, by my Black Armour.
I'm pretty sure he's got the SE pre-ordered.
Pretty lame and nonsensical argument anyway. Reminds me of Apple fanboys: "Oh you don't like the ipod/ipad/iphone, well you probably can't afford it".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't know that the presence of black armor will have all of the green-clad players flocking to him as some sort of messiah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that part was just weird to read.
No, I meant the part Renegade wrote which prompted you to reply with that. You described it very aptly.
It's just weird that he thinks people will flock to black armor wearers.
Did I buy it for the .. wait, how did you refer to it .. "IDIFTBA"? or to support the devs?
Some background info, I do own TF2 - I did pre-order L4D2, so I have Bill's hat (and rock it, constantly), but I do not have ear buds or any of the Sam & Max stuff. I do also intend to use the black armor at every opportunity..
Just wanted to know if I was in the cool kids club too or if I were forever shunned as just another poser.
What really worries me is players who spend more time on forums thinking their ideas to improve the game were never thought of before or will raise the game to a much higher fun factor. In most cases players who want change simply want it because they are dieing or failing in the game or they feel like the game should be more like "this" or "that". It's one thing to post constructive criticism giving feedback on over powered classes or weapons. But most players forget that if one thing isn't working, try another. Or maybe their team needs to start working together.
Blah, I just can't wait for this game to hit alpha and to see it's end results. I rarely check the forums... so I probably wont see anyones replies. I just hope people will start enjoying the game for what it is and help it's success by leaving constructive feedback for the dev team. I'm sure they will work out most problems and bring us an advanced version of what to me, was already a perfect game.
<i>Btw, I think this is the perfect time for UWE to add a new weapon and form to the Kharra. They should also do something for a special alien skin.</i>
Ok, so some people have bought the black armor for the wrong reasons. Sucks for them, but they gave money to UWE and that's good, plus you won't ever encounter them ingame, so there's no negative side to it. Just concentrate on the issue here, that is to say: UWE has gotten money to do the game they wanted to make (remember when they were considering removing the heavy/exo?), gameplay is unchanged (again, that is considering that people play the game rather than playing notice-that-guy)
Sad for you, i just got the SE 2 days ago. Why? Well, of course for the BA, to boost my ego by allowing me to say "you guys with me. Dont ask questions, look at my Black Armour, it tell you that i know stuff".
Oh, and of course to Support the devs. Because they deserve it.
now, go ahead and flame me because i got the SE for the BA. But just as a warning: Your insults, tears and whatever else you may throw at me will simply be stopped. Yea, by my Black Armour.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
black armor in a year or 2 will throw up a flag that tells everyone, they are probably more skilled, so target them over non black armor wearers.
@Alex, I never as a rule of thumb drop names as to who is "experienced" or a "veteran", the rest of your post is similarly out of context.
@Zimbu, Cereal, et. all. who are sittin in disbelief, asking "there's no way players are that stupid, are they?". See above. At this point it's something that unless you've seen it first hand, you will never believe it. So take my word, I've seen it first hand in many games, and many communities. I've seen the best but also the worse and I can guarantee you the potential for black armour to negatively affect gameplay is great.
That being said, I keep forgetting to ask the most important question. So to devs/anyone who knows:
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Will Black Armor and other custom models be toggleable server-side in a similar fashion to mp_consistency?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
In other words, will it be left to server admins to decide whether they want to allow black armour and other custom models or force model consistency among all players <b>without being penalized in anyway</b> (i.e. not showing up as modded or not at all in the serverbrowser). This also applies to achievements and any other gimmicks that are added into this game. I'm half tempted to suggest it be called "mp_gimmicks 0" (hey, if they could call it "bs 0"...)
This is the only answer that is important. Because if it is, the problem is solvable easily and there is no further issue (server admins will choose whether they want a "hats&fun achievement community", or "serious business").
@Alex, I never as a rule of thumb drop names as to who is "experienced" or a "veteran", the rest of your post is similarly out of context.
@Zimbu, Cereal, et. all. who are sittin in disbelief, asking "there's no way players are that stupid, are they?". See above. At this point it's something that unless you've seen it first hand, you will never believe it. So take my word, I've seen it first hand in many games, and many communities. I've seen the best but also the worse and I can guarantee you the potential for black armour to negatively affect gameplay is great.
That being said, I keep forgetting to ask the most important question. So to devs/anyone who knows:
<!--coloro:orange--><span style="color:orange"><!--/coloro--><!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->Will Black Armor and other custom models be toggleable server-side in a similar fashion to mp_consistency?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
In other words, will it be left to server admins to decide whether they want to allow black armour and other custom models or force model consistency among all players <b>without being penalized in anyway</b> (i.e. not showing up as modded or not at all in the serverbrowser). This also applies to achievements and any other gimmicks that are added into this game. I'm half tempted to suggest it be called "mp_gimmicks 0" (hey, if they could call it "bs 0"...)
This is the only answer that is important. Because if it is, the problem is solvable easily and there is no further issue (server admins will choose whether they want a "hats&fun achievement community", or "serious business").<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's pretty safe to assume mp_consistency 1 would INCLUDE black armor. It's an official part of the game. It would be more realistic to say that server mods will need to develop a plugin to not allow it. Also, playing from Day 1 does not make you better in any way. There are thousands of skilled competitive players who will always be better than me and I've been playing NS for over 8 years.
Generally I avoid things that are likely to kill me rather than throw myself at them.
Besides I'm sure you can turn it off if you want to.
Judging by this it isn't simply an option you check whether to black or not but it is an ingame choice that players who have purchased the special edition can use. I am certainly sure that a LUA mod could be written to allow all people to access this or just have it as a choice upon joining. Really we can only tell how its going to affect play as we're closer to a fully developed game however the way it sounds it will just be a timesink for players to go to the armory and pick it(possibly every round they want to use it/after they die) with it having no more a beneficial effect than just looking "E-cool"
The main thing to remember here is that there goal is ship this with a filter such on a the search engine you can choose to play their vanilla coded server or a modded one. If you're playing NS2 then you're going to have to deal with the DIFBA.
Well it's just sad to hear how pessimistic you are about the gaming community. I am aware that a lot of players are horrible, but I am convinced I won't encounter them often enough for it to be a problem. Besides, if you're playing with people following black armors, then the skin color is probably the least of your worries.
Being labeled modded or un-vanilla is a such a penalty I refer to, and would be a major disappointment as mp_blockscripts doesn't require modding and is available to a "vanilla" server. Even TF2 has the ability to turn off crits and hats and go into "serious business" mode without requiring mods. It seems NS2 is already taking every other page from the TF2 book, may as well take this last one and call it a novel.
<!--quoteo(post=1780788:date=Jul 19 2010, 01:41 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jul 19 2010, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780788"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Given that UWE has expressed a desire to support competitive play with NS2, I would assume there will be an option to disable alternate armors on the server for competitive matches or whatever, given that competitive players complain a lot if you allow any sort of deviation between players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I would expect, otherwise the claims of supporting the competitive community are null and void.
Also, don't confuse pessimism with realism. I've given examples of the worst because these particularly stand out, but black armour has an effect at every level, no public community is isolated. It may be the least of worries, but it is a worry that didn't need to be in the first place (they could have offered any number of non-in-game perks, up to and including Black Armour and fireworks in the readyroom, and no one would have been the wiser).